Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[benjii]

Eh. Dropping tariffs is a necessary consequence of refusing to create a hard border. Otherwise you have two different tariffs, creating a hard border.

 

I think he means don't have a physical border. There is a school of thought you can apply tariffs without border infrastructure e.g. rely on declarations after the event (in the absence of technological solution).

 

At least that's what I think he means.

 

Not sure how well that would work, mind. At least there are fewer berets imported into Norn Irn nowadays.

[OldNick]

It seems to me Eire are stuffed if there is a hard border. We will have one at Calais so it stands to reason there will be one in Ireland.

We have the Eu knowing that we have to blink first re the negotiations

We have JC intentionally going to vote down the deal to try and force an General Election

We have Brexiteers throwing their toys out of the pram as they think we aren't going to be totally independent of Europe and expect tht it will all stay the same but without EU jurisdiction

We have the Remainers wanting to safeguard all the jobs and having free movement

 

Try and negotiate with that lot on your back. Impossible.

It was evident to me that we had to accept WTO tariffs early on as the Eu will not any form let us look as we have won.

[Cabbage_Face]

As time passes the chances of us leaving decreases.

[whelk]

[benjii]

It seems to me Eire are stuffed if there is a hard border. We will have one at Calais so it stands to reason there will be one in Ireland.

We have the Eu knowing that we have to blink first re the negotiations

We have JC intentionally going to vote down the deal to try and force an General Election

We have Brexiteers throwing their toys out of the pram as they think we aren't going to be totally independent of Europe and expect tht it will all stay the same but without EU jurisdiction

We have the Remainers wanting to safeguard all the jobs and having free movement

 

Try and negotiate with that lot on your back. Impossible.

It was evident to me that we had to accept WTO tariffs early on as the Eu will not any form let us look as we have won.

 

The Republic should have thought of this before they joined the EU innit!

[shurlock]

https://mobile.twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1053662098574716929

 

Les is this you?

[badgerx16]

https://mobile.twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1053662098574716929

 

Les is this you?

"Back to the Fifties".

[moonraker]

https://mobile.twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1053662098574716929

 

Les is this you?

 

And there you have it, brexidiotman

[Wes Tender]

 

I thought that you might enjoy watching this. It's almost as if he knows you and was directing it straight at you.

[shurlock]

 

I thought that you might enjoy watching this. It's almost as if he knows you and was directing it straight at you.

 

Poor old pat talks even more crap than you pal

 

FWIW I am uncomfortable with a second referendum/people’s vote unless there is a major shift in opinion and so far there hasn’t been one.

[benjii]

https://mobile.twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1053662098574716929

 

Les is this you?

 

Are you a news organisation with nothing to say about Brexit this week?

 

We've got the answer! Head up to a northern town and do a short piece to camera with an idiot!

 

A pub (the flatter the roof, the better) or a depressed town centre (think Barnsley, Stoke. Middlesbrough etc.) will provide no shortage of willing simpletons. If in doubt, look out for bull-terrier like dogs.

[aintforever]

 

I thought that you might enjoy watching this. It's almost as if he knows you and was directing it straight at you.

 

While I don’t agree with much of what this guy says he does hit the nail on the head with regards to the accountability and remoteness of the EU, that is fundamentally the issue.

 

When Cameron went to Brussels Looking for concessions on free movement the EU should have acted on the concerns of a large proportion of EU voters, that’s how democracy works. Instead they just said “**** you, you signed up to it”.

 

Again with the negotiations it looks like they are putting political dogma over the interests of the European people. They can’t give us a good deal even it is good for Europe because it threatens their precious project or in their words “protects the integrity of the EU”.

 

All the British people wanted was some control over their borders, most people don’t give a **** about the EU courts or trade deals around the world, it’s just the basic right to control who comes in.

[shurlock]

While I don’t agree with much of what this guy says he does hit the nail on the head with regards to the accountability and remoteness of the EU, that is fundamentally the issue.

 

When Cameron went to Brussels Looking for concessions on free movement the EU should have acted on the concerns of a large proportion of EU voters, that’s how democracy works. Instead they just said “**** you, you signed up to it”.

 

Again with the negotiations it looks like they are putting political dogma over the interests of the European people. They can’t give us a good deal even it is good for Europe because it threatens their precious project or in their words “protects the integrity of the EU”.

 

All the British people wanted was some control over their borders, most people don’t give a **** about the EU courts or trade deals around the world, it’s just the basic right to control who comes in.

 

You’re all over the place pal. Large majorities around the EU support freedom of movement for workers (which at any rate is not unconditional and the UK has chosen not to implement in full). You might be confusing things with the refugee crisis, illegal migration, people coming from countries outside the EU and aspects of Schengen but that has nowt to do with what Cameron was negotiating over.

Edited 21 October, 2018 by shurlock

[Cabbage_Face]

Most of those on the march yesterday can’t workout what gender they are.......brilliant. Still 500,000 still not enough to get the remain vote, you gender neutral lampposts.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lord Duckhunter]

 

When Cameron went to Brussels Looking for concessions on free movement the EU should have acted on the concerns of a large proportion of EU voters, that’s how democracy works. Instead they just said “**** you, you signed up to it”.

 

Again with the negotiations it looks like they are putting political dogma over the interests of the European people. They can’t give us a good deal even it is good for Europe because it threatens their precious project or in their words “protects the integrity of the EU”.

 

All the British people wanted was some control over their borders, most people don’t give a **** about the EU courts or trade deals around the world, it’s just the basic right to control who comes in.

 

Their position made absolute sense.

 

You’re looking at it from the position that we’re an independent country within a trade deal. The EU look at it in the same way the federal government would if California asked for restrictions on people from Mississippi working in their state.

 

They may not be there yet, and they’ve had to slow down somewhat as the European people are starting to revolt, but ever closer union means there’s zero chance of them reversing anything that they’ve got now. They’ve banked that on the road to union. A United Europe in the long term is much more important that anyone or any groups short term problems. If it causes Greece hardship, or leads to a lost generation of Italian, Spanish, Greek kids, it’s a price worth paying. And they certainly wouldn’t water down one of the fundamental pillars of statehood, the right to live & work in another part of that state.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Edited 21 October, 2018 by Lord Duckhunter

[whelk]

 

Just goes to show. I assumed Sour Mash was an angry 40/50 something bloke. Turns out he is an old lady.

[benjii]

What's with the owl?

 

Did she have an owl jacket and then add the words or can you get an animal print xenophobe jacket?

 

Or did she have the xenophobe coat and decide to add the owl?

 

These questions need answering.

[badgerx16]

What's with the owl?

 

Did she have an owl jacket and then add the words or can you get an animal print xenophobe jacket?

 

Or did she have the xenophobe coat and decide to add the owl?

 

These questions need answering.

"Sad to say, most owls actually fall into the lower range of bird intelligence"

http://www.birdminds.com/Owls.php

[Wes Tender]

Poor old pat talks even more crap than you pal

 

FWIW I am uncomfortable with a second referendum/people’s vote unless there is a major shift in opinion and so far there hasn’t been one.

 

Angered you, did it? Hence the usual triggered insult response when somebody's got you banged to rights. How entitled must you be, eh?

[shurlock]

Angered you, did it? Hence the usual triggered insult response when somebody's got you banged to rights. How entitled must you be, eh?

 

I clearly said I am uncomfortable with a second referendum. So no Les the only thing you’ve managed to show is that you and your little video are completely clueless about peoples motives and thinking.

 

Banged to rights indeed

Edited 21 October, 2018 by shurlock

[Cabbage_Face]

What's with the owl?

 

Did she have an owl jacket and then add the words or can you get an animal print xenophobe jacket?

 

Or did she have the xenophobe coat and decide to add the owl?

 

These questions need answering.

 

Owl is the new Pepe

 

 

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[Wes Tender]

I clearly said I am uncomfortable with a second referendum. So no Les the only thing you’ve managed to show is that you and your little video are completely clueless about peoples motives and thinking.

 

Banged to rights indeed

 

More insults. Where did I say that you were uncomfortable with a second referendum? That's right; I didn't. He has you and your ilk banged to rights because he has you down to a tee.

 

Only you really have any idea about what motivates your fellow citizens, but apparently they don't even know what motivates themselves. As Pat says, how entitled must you be?

[shurlock]

More insults. Where did I say that you were uncomfortable with a second referendum? That's right; I didn't. He has you and your ilk banged to rights because he has you down to a tee.

 

Only you really have any idea about what motivates your fellow citizens, but apparently they don't even know what motivates themselves. As Pat says, how entitled must you be?

 

 

 

Les - i assume you did watch the video, you senile cretin? It was a ponderous, predictable piece about remainers throwing a tantrum, demanding a second referendum. It’s even in the video title ‘the people’s vote’. Yet as I made it jawdroppingly clear I don’t currently support a second referendum - hence the basic premise of your characterisation is wrong. Still if saying bang to rights, down to a tee over and over again without any justification makes you feel less silly, fill your boots.

 

Maybe it was a good idea you stayed away from this thread for so long because each time post, you invariably a fool of yourself. Maybe it’s time to do yourself a favour and take another break pal.

Edited 22 October, 2018 by shurlock

[Wes Tender]

I really do believe that you have serious mental issues, posting at that time in the morning to spout the same old juvenile playground insults. Were you a bully at school to cover up some inadequacy you had? You need to get your anger issues addressed. Seek help. It isn't just me that you throw these puerile insults at, it's pretty well everybody who disagrees with you. The number of posters who bother to engage in debate on this thread is steadily declining. Soon you'll just be talking to yourself. As you say, there is little point in me posting here just to antagonise you.

[benjii]

We've got the EU banged to rights down to a tee.

 

No surrender!

 

Alis volat propriis!

[Verbal]

Retiring again Lord T? Probably for the best.

 

That video you posted should be on repeat everywhere - a perfect embodiment of both the idiocy of Brexit Jihadists and what they actually, for the most part, look like - embittered, ranting, white middle-class pensioners determined to ruin the futures of succeeding generations.

 

Still, you're not the stupidest Brexiter on the block. That prize, collectively, goes to the freakishly weird Lexiteers - the few Corbynistas so slobberingly devoted to St Jez that they've adopted his anti-EU stance. A well written take-down of this nonsense is this piece, from within an otherwise notoriously Corbynist blog at the LSE...

 

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/10/16/lexit-undermines-the-left-it-will-be-no-prize-for-labour/

[OldNick]

I saw an interesting thing on FB saying that Switzerland has 5 borders with EU countries and they dont have closed borders. In theory then it shouldn't be a problem with NI but Im sure there must be quirks why it is a special case

[shurlock]

Retiring again Lord T? Probably for the best.

 

That video you posted should be on repeat everywhere - a perfect embodiment of both the idiocy of Brexit Jihadists and what they actually, for the most part, look like - embittered, ranting, white middle-class pensioners determined to ruin the futures of succeeding generations.

 

Still, you're not the stupidest Brexiter on the block. That prize, collectively, goes to the freakishly weird Lexiteers - the few Corbynistas so slobberingly devoted to St Jez that they've adopted his anti-EU stance. A well written take-down of this nonsense is this piece, from within an otherwise notoriously Corbynist blog at the LSE...

 

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/10/16/lexit-undermines-the-left-it-will-be-no-prize-for-labour/

 

Notoriously Corbynist blog - how do you work that one out?

[shurlock]

I saw an interesting thing on FB saying that Switzerland has 5 borders with EU countries and they dont have closed borders. In theory then it shouldn't be a problem with NI but Im sure there must be quirks why it is a special case

 

What do you mean by closed? They're certainly not frictionless as rentagobs like ciaran the van driver have physically documented.

 

Also worth remembering that the structure of the Swiss economy is very different from that of the UK: for example its percentage of domestic value-added in exports is much larger than other midsized economies, meaning that it adds much of the value of exports itself. In other words, unlike the UK, it is far less integrated in just-in-time production networks where the costs of even minor delays at the border can be considerable.

[badgerx16]

I saw an interesting thing on FB saying that Switzerland has 5 borders with EU countries and they dont have closed borders. In theory then it shouldn't be a problem with NI but Im sure there must be quirks why it is a special case

 

Switzerland is in the EFTA, and is party to the Schengen agreement on free movement, so this is unlikely to be an acceptable model for Brexit.

[OldNick]

What do you mean by closed? They're certainly not frictionless as rentagobs like ciaran the van driver have physically documented.

 

Also worth remembering that the structure of the Swiss economy is very different from that of the UK: for example its percentage of domestic value-added in exports is much larger than other midsized economies, meaning that it adds much of the value of exports itself. In other words, unlike the UK, it is far less integrated in just-in-time production networks where the costs of even minor delays at the border can be considerable.

in principle I assume they could say if it is ok for them why not us.

I haven't looked into the ins and outs but it just shows it is possible.

[OldNick]

Switzerland is in the EFTA, and is party to the Schengen agreement on free movement, so this is unlikely to be an acceptable model for Brexif.

Ok thanks for that. So do they get massive immigration from Eastern Europe and the middle east etc. I suspect it is free movement by word only

[badgerx16]

Ok thanks for that. So do they get massive immigration from Eastern Europe and the middle east etc. I suspect it is free movement by word only

 

I have no idea. I read the quote about the Swiss arrangements being an easy Brexit solution in the Daily Fail letters this morning, ( I did have to disinfect my hands afterwards ), and was fairly certain that the writer was wrong in his/her assumptions, so I checked online.

[shurlock]

Ok thanks for that. So do they get massive immigration from Eastern Europe and the middle east etc. I suspect it is free movement by word only

 

Why are you conflating immigration from EU member states in Eastern Europe and refugees displaced by the civil war in the Middle East. Utterly different things.

 

A quarter of the Swiss population is foreign (significantly higher than the UK). The vast majority of that comes from EU member states. And no it isn’t free movement in name only. Apart from a few minor concessions, it is signed up (admittedly grudgingly) to the same rules as other EU states, though like those states but unlike the UK it takes advantage of all the flexibilities built into the regime governing freedom of movement.

[OldNick]

Why are you conflating immigration from EU member states in Eastern Europe and refugees displaced by the civil war in the Middle East. Utterly different things.

 

A quarter of the Swiss population is foreign (significantly higher than the UK). The vast majority of that comes from EU member states. And no it isn’t free movement in name only. Apart from a few minor concessions, it is signed up (admittedly grudgingly) to the same rules as other EU states, though like those states but unlike the UK it takes advantage of all the flexibilities built into the regime governing freedom of movement.

Yes there is no doubt they have 25% of foreign population, most are either tax dodgers or highly skilled , I have quite a few clients/customers from there. I do know it is frigging difficult to get anything delivered into the country and a lot of couriers wont go there due to the large amount of paperwork needed to get anything in. It is not free movement as I would see it

[OldNick]

Yes there is no doubt they have 25% of foreign population, most are either tax dodgers or highly skilled , I have quite a few clients/customers from there. I do know it is frigging difficult to get anything delivered into the country and a lot of couriers wont go there due to the large amount of paperwork needed to get anything in. It is not free movement as I would see it

When I say tax dodgers I mean people taking advantage of the good tax rates.

You have to be fabulously wealthy to live there really. I went into Macdonalds in Lucerne once, bloody hell even that was dear lol

[shurlock]

Yes there is no doubt they have 25% of foreign population, most are either tax dodgers or highly skilled , I have quite a few clients/customers from there. I do know it is frigging difficult to get anything delivered into the country and a lot of couriers wont go there due to the large amount of paperwork needed to get anything in. It is not free movement as I would see it

 

Again you’re confusing very different things -freedom of movement and frictionless trade.

 

It has freedom of movement for all intents and purposes; however it doesn’t have frictionless trade as its hotchpotch of bilateral agreements with the EU don’t cover all sectors (notably financial sector passporting) and it is not part of the customs union which allows it to negotiate its own trade deals, including horribly lobsided agreements with countries like China.

 

It’s hard to see how the Swiss model would please jihadists like Les and his mancrush Pat; it involves significantly less control over EU immigration in return for even less access to EU markers, though it does mean that Switzerland is not subject to the jurisdiction of the ECJ (though reforms are being discussed which would grant the ECJ some role).

[Plastic]

I just watched that Pat C video, first one for a year or so.

When did he move from reasoned (if flawed) arguments to pure vitriol?

What is he so angry about, is everything not working out just the way he hoped?

[Verbal]

Yet another one for the #YouDontBelongHere collection. The wonders of Brexit...

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6302501/Sainsburys-shopper-removed-store-racist-rant.html

[Lord Duckhunter]

Switzerland is in the EFTA, and is party to the Schengen agreement on free movement, so this is unlikely to be an acceptable model for Brexit.

 

It’s not an acceptable model for the EU.

No way they’ll let us go down that route.

 

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[badgerx16]

It’s not an acceptable model for the EU.

No way they’ll let us go down that route.

 

Membership of Schengen rules it out for the UK.

 

The issue with the Swiss comparison is the lack of awareness of the people touting it as a viable solution.

Edited 22 October, 2018 by badgerx16

[Lord Duckhunter]

Membership of Schengen rules it out for the UK.

 

The issue with the Swiss comparison is the lack of awareness of the people touting it as a viable solution.

 

Even if we accept Schengen (which we won’t ), the EU won’t offer it up. Free movement aside, the Swiss have a pretty decent series of agreements , cake & eat it territory.

 

 

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Edited 22 October, 2018 by Lord Duckhunter

[buctootim]

Even if we accept Schengen (which we won’t ), the EU won’t offer it up. Free movement aside, the Swiss have a pretty decent series of agreements , cake & eat it territory.

 

but its been an administrative and legal nightmare for both sides, which is why the EU dont want to go down that route again.

[Verbal]

Good to see that arch Brexiteer James Dyson is putting his money where his mouth is. And is mouth is apparently in the Far East.

 

He's just announced he's building his electric car in Singapore.

[ecuk268]

Good to see that arch Brexiteer James Dyson is putting his money where his mouth is. And is mouth is apparently in the Far East.

 

He's just announced he's building his electric car in Singapore.

 

Could that be connected with the fact that Singapore has just signed a free trade agreement with the EU?

[badgerx16]

Good to see that arch Brexiteer James Dyson is putting his money where his mouth is. And is mouth is apparently in the Far East.

 

He's just announced he's building his electric car in Singapore.

 

Dyson don't build anything in the UK, which means the company has nothing to lose under Brexit as it doesn't have a supply chain to get disrupted.

[buctootim]

Dyson don't build anything in the UK, which means the company has nothing to lose under Brexit as it doesn't have a supply chain to get disrupted.

 

Exactly. Dyson wraps himself in the flag but the reality is that his products are made in Malaysia and Singapore. If you want a British made hoover go for Henry (Numatic)

[whelk]

Exactly. Dyson wraps himself in the flag but the reality is that his products are made in Malaysia and Singapore. If you want a British made hoover go for Henry (Numatic)

 

What stops me is that it looks like something from Playschool.

 

Although it is chick’s work anyway

[buctootim]

What stops me is that it looks like something from Playschool.

 

I know it looks toytown, but apparently they work well and last forever. Thats why most contract cleaners use them.

[hypochondriac]

I know it looks toytown, but apparently they work well and last forever. Thats why most contract cleaners use them.

You can buy special industrial ones. They are decent.