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Guided Missile

By Guided Missile,
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Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum  

217 members have voted

  1. 1. Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum

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Unbelievable Jeff

Unbelievable Jeff

Posted
Posted
The Tories have made a complete mess of the whole thing, it took them 2 years to come up with Chequers and they still can't agree on it. Their internal politics could cause a right mess for the country.

 

Hmmm...I think the Brexit voters caused the mess - the internal politics in the Tory party is just making it a bit worse.

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Verbal

Verbal

Posted
Posted
This is a powerful speech by Donald Trump.

 

Tsk, tsk.

 

I agree with him. Canada+++ please.

 

One of those plusses is the EU's backstop of a border in the Irish Sea. A deal-breaker for the DUP. There's no parliamentary majority for Canada, no matter how many plusses are added, as it also fails the '6 tests' set out by Keir Starmer. There just aren't enough Brexiteer rebels among Labour MPs to save May if she suddenly abandons Chequers (which is dead anyway).

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
Tsk, tsk.

 

 

 

One of those plusses is the EU's backstop of a border in the Irish Sea. A deal-breaker for the DUP. There's no parliamentary majority for Canada, no matter how many plusses are added, as it also fails the '6 tests' set out by Keir Starmer. There just aren't enough Brexiteer rebels among Labour MPs to save May if she suddenly abandons Chequers (which is dead anyway).

Labour are just going to vote against it anyway no matter what May came up with.
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Saint86

Saint86

Posted
Posted

The UK is unavoidably in for some painful years now.

 

The whole process has been dreadfully mismanaged and undermined by remain supporters who could never back it fully, let alone negotiate it. This all but ensures a bad compromise deal that nobody wanted, and has led to two years of a hamstrung economy, as well as multiple key domestic issues being ignored and an almost certain chance of JC government before summer 2019.

 

Which by they way is the thing that everyone should be worried about.... A far left socialist party that will bankrupt the country, actively pursue policies that will damage the job market, and look to limit press freedoms, democracy and racial tolerance. Brexit is small fry against the backdrop of a JC/JM premiership.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
The UK is unavoidably in for some painful years now.

 

The whole process has been dreadfully mismanaged and undermined by remain supporters who could never back it fully, let alone negotiate it. .

 

I thought David Davis was in charge of negotiations, then Raab - both campaigned for leave, Davis being a passionate leaver for his entire career. Plus May's red lines which she hasn't budged from (yet) are proper hard Brexit red lines.

 

Not entirely sure where you think we'd be if we weren't "undermined by remain supporters" but I'd wager we'd be where we are now. Barnier's sliding scale chart would still apply as it has the entire freaking time.

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted
I thought David Davis was in charge of negotiations, then Raab - both campaigned for leave, Davis being a passionate leaver for his entire career. Plus May's red lines which she hasn't budged from (yet) are proper hard Brexit red lines.

 

Not entirely sure where you think we'd be if we weren't "undermined by remain supporters" but I'd wager we'd be where we are now. Barnier's sliding scale chart would still apply as it has the entire freaking time.

 

Davis was hung out to dry, which is why he resigned when May & Robbins tried to bounce him into Chequers. You’re right about our options ala Barniers position, but surely even you can’t claim this isn’t Mays personal proposal.

 

She’ll get us over the line with a fudged withdrawal agreement, then she’ll be handed a bottle of whiskey & a loaded revolver. That’s when the fun will really begin.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Verbal

Verbal

Posted
Posted
Davis was hung out to dry, which is why he resigned when May & Robbins tried to bounce him into Chequers. You’re right about our options ala Barniers position, but surely even you can’t claim this isn’t Mays personal proposal.

 

She’ll get us over the line with a fudged withdrawal agreement, then she’ll be handed a bottle of whiskey & a loaded revolver. That’s when the fun will really begin.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

In other words, the Brexit Jihadists who caused this appalling mess are blaming the people who said it would be an appalling mess all along.

 

Oh, and the 'fun' you'll be having? That'll be the sound of the British economy hitting the buffers. Which will be fun for those turfed out of a job.

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted
In other words, the Brexit Jihadists who caused this appalling mess are blaming the people who said it would be an appalling mess all along.

 

Oh, and the 'fun' you'll be having? That'll be the sound of the British economy hitting the buffers. Which will be fun for those turfed out of a job.

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like not joining the Euro. How on earth you Little Europeans can lecture anyone on job losses is beyond me. It’s your beloved project that has stolen the future of millions of young Europeans.

 

 

 

 

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shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like not joining the Euro. How on earth you Little Europeans can lecture anyone on job losses is beyond me. It’s your beloved project that has stolen the future of millions of young Europeans.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

You’re furiously hard of thinking, aren’t you pal. What is it now? The favourite jihadist trope and crocodile tears about youth unemployment in Southern Europe? Figures that are at any rate misunderstood and misinterpreted. Clue there’s a difference between a rate and a ratio.

 

And nobody ever explains how they are due to the EU as opposed to homegrown problems and choices. Indeed if freedom of movement was the force of nature that jihadists claim, it would have swept away the barriers that maintain insider-outsider job markets and keep unemployment high in these countries. Then again consistency and following through the logic of your thinking have never been your strong suit.

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solentstars

solentstars

Posted
Posted
In other words, the Brexit Jihadists who caused this appalling mess are blaming the people who said it would be an appalling mess all along.

 

Oh, and the 'fun' you'll be having? That'll be the sound of the British economy hitting the buffers. Which will be fun for those turfed out of a job.

agree wonder when they would blame remainers for thir own fantasy world, they have not got a clue and never had a plan and the fact alot of dark money from overseas funded the leave campaign.
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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
Davis was hung out to dry, which is why he resigned when May & Robbins tried to bounce him into Chequers. You’re right about our options ala Barniers position, but surely even you can’t claim this isn’t Mays personal proposal.

 

She’ll get us over the line with a fudged withdrawal agreement, then she’ll be handed a bottle of whiskey & a loaded revolver. That’s when the fun will really begin.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I'm not saying Barniers options is May's personal proposal, just that they would be the same regardless. If it was Boris banging the table, or a Davis not "bounced" into everything the situation we are in now wouldn't actually be any different.

 

Have Canada plusplusplusplusplusplus and knock yourself out. Still the issues with Ireland remain, and the various other issues connected that generally make Canada plusplusplusplusplusplus worse than the status quo.

 

100% agree on fudge, and it will get through Parliament because Tory MPs fear Corbyn and Labour MPs fear losing their majorities (and/or are leavers like Saint Jeremy has always been).

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Jonnyboy

Jonnyboy

Posted
Posted
The UK is unavoidably in for some painful years now.

 

The whole process has been dreadfully mismanaged and undermined by remain supporters who could never back it fully, let alone negotiate it. This all but ensures a bad compromise deal that nobody wanted, and has led to two years of a hamstrung economy, as well as multiple key domestic issues being ignored and an almost certain chance of JC government before summer 2019.

 

Which by they way is the thing that everyone should be worried about.... A far left socialist party that will bankrupt the country, actively pursue policies that will damage the job market, and look to limit press freedoms, democracy and racial tolerance. Brexit is small fry against the backdrop of a JC/JM premiership.

 

Shouldn't have voted leave then should you?

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted (edited)

I cant get my head around that the Brexiteers just think we as a Nation could just pull out and think it would all be the same.

We can only get a negotiated deal and some will be unpalatable, but as long as we can trade freely with Europe we have got out of jail free.

If not then we are in real trouble.

Small traders and hauliers who I know who take items into and out of Europe are pretty concerned, many recall the days of when they used to have to go into bonded warehouses unload their items and have a full inventory on board. The time that added to their journey was unpalatable, let alone the queueing.

TM has done a great job if she can make a deal anything like what we had before we leave.

Edited by OldNick
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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted
I cant get my head around that the Brexiteers just think we as a Nation could just pull out and think it would all be the same.

 

Just lumping 17 million people into one mass is just ridiculous. Some may have thought that, but not a single person I’ve spoken to did. Just like remainers have differing views of what our relationship inside the EU should be, people who want to leave have differing views of what our relationship outside should be. Personally I can’t believe their are remainers that don’t understand the EUs ultimate goal is a single super state . However , I wouldn’t say “I can’t believe remainers think we’re not heading towards a United States of Europe”.

 

 

 

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
Just lumping 17 million people into one mass is just ridiculous. Some may have thought that, but not a single person I’ve spoken to did. Just like remainers have differing views of what our relationship inside the EU should be, people who want to leave have differing views of what our relationship outside should be. Personally I can’t believe their are remainers that don’t understand the EUs ultimate goal is a single super state . However , I wouldn’t say “I can’t believe remainers think we’re not heading towards a United States of Europe”.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I dont think Europe is utopia by any stretch of the imagination. I want to stay in for mainly financial reasons for our children and grandchildren. We cannot afford to lose 400m customers, who in the main are in the top 5% of the worlds wealthiest citizens. Add to that we need unskilled as well as skilled workers to do jobs our kids wont do.

It is difficult to call, and if we come out with a decent financial deal then you and others have done well for us all,but at this time all the infighting needs to stop and we show a united front with the EU.

The problem I see is that, Brexit has opened the door to the chance of JC coming into power, it seems to me that his strategy is to vote down any deal we get, hoping to bring an GE. It is not because that would be best for the citizens of the UK but for his and the people behind him political dreams. It will be down to Brexit that this has been able to fester.

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ecuk268

ecuk268

Posted
Posted
Just lumping 17 million people into one mass is just ridiculous. Some may have thought that, but not a single person I’ve spoken to did. Just like remainers have differing views of what our relationship inside the EU should be, people who want to leave have differing views of what our relationship outside should be. Personally I can’t believe their are remainers that don’t understand the EUs ultimate goal is a single super state . However , I wouldn’t say “I can’t believe remainers think we’re not heading towards a United States of Europe”.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Liam Fox did.

 

He said that a trade deal with the EU would be "one of the easiest in human history". He then said that we could copy and paste all of the EU's 40 trade deals "the second after midnight at the end of March 2019".

 

He later said that no deal was the most likely option.

 

Along with "failing" Grayling, he must be one of the most incompetent ministers in a pretty useless bunch.

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
A leading Brexit Jihadist, David Bannerman MEP, has just praised the Ulster Volunteer Force.

 

Here is a list of the thousands of dead and maimed at the hands of the UVF.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Ulster_Volunteer_Force_actions

Very sad indeed, but better than praising the IRA who also killed thousands ( I suspect more that the UVF) and actually cosying up to them whilst your own armed forces and civilians were being killed by them.
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ecuk268

ecuk268

Posted
Posted
Very sad indeed, but better than praising the IRA who also killed thousands ( I suspect more that the UVF) and actually cosying up to them whilst your own armed forces and civilians were being killed by them.

 

Are you referring to Willie Whitelaw in 1972?

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Plastic

Plastic

Posted
Posted
A leading Brexit Jihadist, David Bannerman MEP, has just praised the Ulster Volunteer Force.

 

Here is a list of the thousands of dead and maimed at the hands of the UVF.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Ulster_Volunteer_Force_actions

 

Christ, look at that list.

All the effort and compromise that went into Stormont, and we are on the verge of picking the scab off.

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shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted (edited)
Christ, look at that list.

All the effort and compromise that went into Stormont, and we are on the verge of picking the scab off.

 

The likes of Les and LD don't give a flying f**k. Pampered baby-boomer gammon who have no recollection of real hardship just want to act out their little fantasies.

Edited by shurlock
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ecuk268

ecuk268

Posted
Posted
if the cap fits, anybody who was dealing with them unofficially and so being disloyal to our country

 

How do you think that the troubles were ended? By the two sides talking.

 

There was no military solution and a certain amount of dialogue was going on for years until Blair finally sorted it out. Pragmatism won in the end.

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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted
If we won’t put a ‘hard border’ our side and the Irish/Eu won’t put one in. Junker said so

 

Who will?

Was the solution not in the Leave manifesto ? Surely BoJo, JRM, or even Nige had everything worked out when they promised the electorate the Moon on a Stick. Would it not be part of 'We get back control of our borders" ?

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
Was the solution not in the Leave manifesto ? Surely BoJo, JRM, or even Nige had everything worked out when they promised the electorate the Moon on a Stick. Would it not be part of 'We get back control of our borders" ?
The solution is to refuse to put up a hard border. The EU won't be putting one up either so they will be forced to come up with another solution.
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Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
Was the solution not in the Leave manifesto ? Surely BoJo, JRM, or even Nige had everything worked out when they promised the electorate the Moon on a Stick. Would it not be part of 'We get back control of our borders" ?

 

To be fair, it wasn't an issue during campaigning and it was assumed that a border would go in - like it will at Calais.

 

It's only become an issue since May screwed up the General Election she didn't need to call and is being propped up by the DUP.

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Tamesaint

Tamesaint

Posted
Posted
To be fair, it wasn't an issue during campaigning and it was assumed that a border would go in - like it will at Calais.

 

 

So the leavers "assumed" that the Good Friday agreement which has led to 20 years of peace after 30 years of bloodshed could be "assumed" away.

 

Sums up the paucity of the argument behind the leave campaign pretty well.

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shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted
So in the event that there is no deal- very unlikely but let's just pretend- who is going to put up a border? It certainly won't be the UK.

 

The UK would be in basic breach of WTO rules, in particular the MFN principle of equal treatment if it dropped tariffs at the Irish border but didn’t do the same for all other WTO members. This would open the door to recrimination and litigation precisely at the time the UK is trying to woo WTO members and use the organisation, however feebly, as a springboard for its own independent trade ambitions.

 

The other problem is that, without any obligation on the UK to enforce rules of origin and product regulations, all kinds of sharp practices and substandard goods (that are bad for jobs and consumers don’t want) could leak across the border and by extension the EU. Ireland would thus be liable for breaching the integrity of the single market by failing to control its border.

 

Let’s be clear: if the EU was compelled to establish a border (assuming the UK was relaxed about alienating WTO members), sure it might play well with the usual simpletons and their unrivaled victim complex who would proudly claim that “it was them, not us” but anyone with a half a brain cell would know why the situation arose and who was ultimately responsible for it.

 

As Alan Beattie says it’s a desperate and ignorant bluff - symptomatic of a tinpot, delboy approach to negotiations that continues to substitute for serious thinking and a real plan.

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shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted (edited)
I didn't say drop tariffs, I said refuse to create a hard border.

 

Eh. Dropping tariffs is a necessary consequence of refusing to create a hard border. Otherwise you have two different tariffs, creating a hard border.

Edited by shurlock
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