Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[OldNick]

It's not been doing that bad against the euro. If we had Trump instead of May negotiating, it would be doing much better.

 

perhaps if the graph included yesterday then the curve would be more alarming

[OldNick]

. As in, "Jog on, Barnier, you get no more from us and we'll take our chances in EFTA. We may then consider granting a decent bilateral free-trade agreement with the EU, so that your German paymasters can continue to sell £26 billion more a year to us than we sold to them."

That is fair and perhaps what we should do. Hell of a risk though.

Selling our products to the wider world sounds good but we will have cut away 400m of the wealthiest citizens in the world. Not sure Gambia , Sierra Leone, and Cuba are going to replace that market.

Don't get me wrong, the main reason I want to stay in EU is for the business that we get. IMO our people have a far better lifestyle from being in, I recall when my European customers would come over, they would be dressed in expensive designer clothes and lovely cars, while here, we were still well behind. That 25-30years has seen us now be on parity. Its only clothes etc but it shows how we have gained financially by being part of the scheme.

[Guided Missile]

That is fair and perhaps what we should do. Hell of a risk though.

Selling our products to the wider world sounds good but we will have cut away 400m of the wealthiest citizens in the world. Not sure Gambia , Sierra Leone, and Cuba are going to replace that market.

Don't get me wrong, the main reason I want to stay in EU is for the business that we get. IMO our people have a far better lifestyle from being in, I recall when my European customers would come over, they would be dressed in expensive designer clothes and lovely cars, while here, we were still well behind. That 25-30years has seen us now be on parity. Its only clothes etc but it shows how we have gained financially by being part of the scheme.

Where would we be, if the £500 billion we sent to Brussels had been invested in UK infrastructure, the NHS and technology, rather than it enabling the tax dodging Greeks, Irish and Italians to buy "expensive designer clothes and lovely cars"?

[Guided Missile]

That is fair and perhaps what we should do. Hell of a risk though.

Trump took the risk and it paid off in about a week...

[OldNick]

Where would we be, if the £500 billion we sent to Brussels had been invested in UK infrastructure, the NHS and technology, rather than it enabling the tax dodging Greeks, Irish and Italians to buy "expensive designer clothes and lovely cars"?

fair point again, but surely the 500bn was generated by being in the EU. It has not been all negative you must agree. I agree re the Greeks etc, the seem to have a culture where they are able to avoid paying into the pot.

[OldNick]

Trump took the risk and it paid off in about a week...

I think the US get their way as they are so dominant. Germany and France manipulate the system, but we didn't do the same, that is a lot of the problem.

Our civil service adhere to the rules whereas they seem to either be the law brokers or ignore the law or don't really apply it as quickly as us.

[shurlock]

I think the US get their way as they are so dominant. Germany and France manipulate the system, but we didn't do the same, that is a lot of the problem.

Our civil service adhere to the rules whereas they seem to either be the law brokers or ignore the law or don't really apply it as quickly as us.

 

Questionable assumption. As badgerx16 pointed out, many saw it as a victory for the EU (the truth is somewhere in the middle). As for concessions the US secured, there’s far less than meets the eye. Take soybeans: US soy is trading at a heavy discount, making it attractive to consumers and importers. This is a byproduct of US-China trade tensions and Chinese retaliatory tariffs on US soybeans which have seen Chinese importers switch from US to Brazilian producers, driving down the price of US soybeans.

 

That’s why EU businesses were already ramping up their purchases of US soy before Juncker and Trump’s bit of kabuki theatre - never mind the fact that EU has no power to determine what EU businesses can and cannot buy.

 

You’d think Trump supporters had never heard of supply and demand. Gullible chumps.

Edited 9 August, 2018 by shurlock

[Guided Missile]

I think the US get their way as they are so dominant. Germany and France manipulate the system, but we didn't do the same, that is a lot of the problem.

Our civil service adhere to the rules whereas they seem to either be the law brokers or ignore the law or don't really apply it as quickly as us.

We need to change. This country is now full of bleeding heart liberals intent on selling our country and what made it great, down the river.

[buctootim]

During that period, Merkel sent Jean-Claude Drunker over to see Trump and beg him not to impose 25% tariffs on German cars. In return he promised that the EU would buy US soybeans, in fact GM soybeans, a variety that cannot legally be cultivated in the EU. What a principled organisation they are. Unsurprisingly, the diminishing prospect of a trade war between the EU and the US boosted the euro. Ban GM crops to protect French farmers and then import them from the US to protect German car companies. More German cars are exported to the UK than anywhere else. Why May feels unable to threaten a 25% import tariff on German cars unless we get a decent trade deal with the EU is beyond me. May has to go and we have to leave this corrupt organisation which, it is obvious to anyone that watches the attitude of the EU, during our trade negotiations, has been set up to benefit the French and Germans.

Of course, there are many quislings on this forum that think that it is fair for the EU to treat the UK as they are. I just happen to think that, after contributing around £500 billion to the failed continental political experiment the EU has become, the UK government may be a little more aggressive in their trade negotiations. As in, "Jog on, Barnier, you get no more from us and we'll take our chances in EFTA. We may then consider granting a decent bilateral free-trade agreement with the EU, so that your German paymasters can continue to sell £26 billion more a year to us than we sold to them."

 

 

Absolute ******** as always. US soya beans have been imported into the EU for years. Recently the amounts have sharply increased as the price has dropped. Why did the price drop? Because China, previously the biggest customer for US beans stopped buying them due to Trumps attitude to them. So Juncker promised to do something which was already happening due to Trumps failure, and in return Trump dropped tariffs. Its clear to everyone apart from you who won that deal.

[shurlock]

Absolute ******** as always. US soya beans have been imported into the EU for years. Recently the amounts have sharply increased as the price has dropped. Why did the price drop? Because China, previously the biggest customer for US beans stopped buying them due to Trumps attitude to them. So Juncker promised to do something which was already happening due to Trumps failure, and in return Trump dropped tariffs. Its clear to everyone apart from you who won that deal.

 

Precisely. Some awfully big chumps continue to swallow Trump’s horse****t

[buctootim]

We need to change. This country is now full of bleeding heart liberals intent on selling our country and what made it great, down the river.

 

Pity you still havent figured out that the most economically successful countries are socially liberal. Britain has always been liberal and tolerant

[Guided Missile]

Absolute ******** as always. US soya beans have been imported into the EU for years. Recently the amounts have sharply increased as the price has dropped. Why did the price drop? Because China, previously the biggest customer for US beans stopped buying them due to Trumps attitude to them. So Juncker promised to do something which was already happening due to Trumps failure, and in return Trump dropped tariffs. Its clear to everyone apart from you who won that deal.

 

I wasn't talking to you, numbnuts, but replying to the post below from badger:

Trump was inaugurated on 20th Jan 2017, when the Euro was at $1.07, it is now at $1.16, a gain of 8%. In the same period the Euro has gained 5% against the £.

I replied:

During that period, Merkel sent Jean-Claude Drunker over to see Trump and beg him not to impose 25% tariffs on German cars. In return he promised that the EU would buy US soybeans, in fact GM soybeans, a variety that cannot legally be cultivated in the EU. What a principled organisation they are. Unsurprisingly, the diminishing prospect of a trade war between the EU and the US boosted the euro.

 

The below article might help you understand the point:

The U.S. dollar weakened against the euro on Wednesday after the United States and the European Union agreed to deescalate a transatlantic trade conflict, leaders from the two trading partners announced in a joint statement in Washington. The euro rose to $1.1728 following the report, up 0.4 percent.

...now get back in your box before you make a total tool of yourself.

[badgerx16]

I wasn't talking to you, numbnuts, but replying to the post below from badger:

 

I replied:

 

 

The below article might help you understand the point:

 

...now get back in your box before you make a total tool of yourself.

The EU has been importing US gm soy for years, the latest agreement is nothing new.

[buctootim]

I wasn't talking to you, numbnuts, but replying to the post from badger:

 

 

...now get back in your box before you make a total tool of yourself.

 

"The U.S. dollar weakened against the euro on Wednesday after the United States and the European Union agreed to deescalate a transatlantic trade conflict, leaders from the two trading partners announced in a joint statement in Washington. The euro rose to $1.1728 following the report, up 0.4 percent."

 

So after the super duper deal by Trump where he batted Juncker out of the park - the dollar dropped and the euro rose. Looks like the markets agree with me that the EU won the battle.

[Guided Missile]

The EU has been importing US gm soy for years, the latest agreement is nothing new.

I am well aware of that. The increase in the amount of GM soya imported from the US, rather than Brazil, who are now replacing the US in selling to China now, is new. What is an old argument is the crass hypocrisy of the EU for banning the cultivation of GM crops in Europe on food safety grounds and importing more GM crops, to benefit German car manufacturers. I am all ears for a cogent argument justifying their anti-technology argument on GM crops. The only comfort I've got, is they've screwed all the anti-GM NGO's, like Greenpeace. They were warned 2 years ago:

About a third of living Nobel laureates – 108 at last count – have signed an open letter which attacks Greenpeace for campaigning against genetically modified crops, especially one called Golden Rice. Addressed to the global environmental group, the United Nations and governments, the letter on Thursday says Greenpeace has “misrepresented the risks, benefits and impacts” of genetically altered food plants. “There has never been a single confirmed case of a negative health outcome for humans or animals from their consumption,” wrote the top scientists. The group included 41 Nobel medicine laureates among them James Watson, honoured in 1962 for co-discovering the basic structure of DNA.The letter called on Greenpeace to “cease and desist” in its efforts to block GM crops, and on governments to embrace “seeds improved through biotechnology”. “Opposition based on emotion and dogma contradicted by data must be stopped.” The Nobel winners singled out Golden Rice as a genetically modified crop with huge potential to improve health and save lives in the developing world.

Still, WTF does James Watson know?

[buctootim]

I am well aware of that. The increase in the amount of GM soya imported from the US, rather than Brazil, who are now replacing the US in selling to China now, is new. What is an old argument is the crass hypocrisy of the EU for banning the cultivation of GM crops in Europe on food safety grounds and importing more GM crops, to benefit German car manufacturers. I am all ears for a cogent argument justifying their anti-technology argument on GM crops. The only comfort I've got, is they've screwed all the anti-GM NGO's, like Greenpeace. They were warned 2 years ago:

 

Still, WTF does James Watson know?

 

 

The main argument against GM foods is the genetic contamination of non GM crops and plants and potential environmental problems stemming from that. Its the precautionary principle . Its never been primarily about food safety. Hence why it is logical and consistent to allow in crops but not allow them to be grown in Europe.

[Guided Missile]

The main argument against GM foods is the genetic contamination of non GM crops and plants and potential environmental problems stemming from that. Its the precautionary principle . Its never been primarily about food safety. Hence why it is logical and consistent to allow in crops but not allow them to be grown in Europe.

If it's all the same, I'll go with the opinion of 108 Nobel laureates, than the "genetic contamination" b0ll0x you have obviously read in a leaflet somewhere. You must have failed every science exam you ever took, because you haven't a clue what "genetic contamination" is. I guess you mean cross pollination. That only occurs between very closely related species and has been going on for thousands of years. In the case of GM crops, it's like worrying that a field of fruit trees will "contaminate" or pollinate an adjoining field of barley and the next year you'll end up with a field of apples, rather than barley.

It seems that the EU politicians are as dumb as you.

[buctootim]

If it's all the same, I'll go with the opinion of 108 Nobel laureates, than the "genetic contamination" b0ll0x you have obviously read in a leaflet somewhere. You must have failed every science exam you ever took, because you haven't a clue what "genetic contamination" is. I guess you mean cross pollination. That only occurs between very closely related species and has been going on for thousands of years. In the case of GM crops, it's like worrying that a field of fruit trees will "contaminate" or pollinate an adjoining field of barley and the next year you'll end up with a field of apples, rather than barley.

It seems that the EU politicians are as dumb as you.

 

The majority of the 108 laureates don't deny transgenic contamination. Neither do the USDA. hth. Heres some primary reading for you

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s40550-014-0005-8

https://www.usda.gov/sites/default/files/documents/EU_Comp_Schemes_on_GE_from_MM.pdf

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-biotech-crops-contamination/u-s-organic-food-industry-fears-gmo-contamination-idUSN1216250820080312?sp=true

https://www.usda.gov/sites/default/files/documents/ac21_report-enhancing-coexistence.pdf

Edited 9 August, 2018 by buctootim

[badgerx16]

If it's all the same, I'll go with the opinion of 108 Nobel laureates, than the "genetic contamination" b0ll0x you have obviously read in a leaflet somewhere. You must have failed every science exam you ever took, because you haven't a clue what "genetic contamination" is. I guess you mean cross pollination. That only occurs between very closely related species and has been going on for thousands of years. In the case of GM crops, it's like worrying that a field of fruit trees will "contaminate" or pollinate an adjoining field of barley and the next year you'll end up with a field of apples, rather than barley.

It seems that the EU politicians are as dumb as you.

 

You always fall back on insults.

[Guided Missile]

"The U.S. dollar weakened against the euro on Wednesday after the United States and the European Union agreed to deescalate a transatlantic trade conflict, leaders from the two trading partners announced in a joint statement in Washington. The euro rose to $1.1728 following the report, up 0.4 percent."

 

So after the super duper deal by Trump where he batted Juncker out of the park - the dollar dropped and the euro rose. Looks like the markets agree with me that the EU won the battle.

Alright, I'll respond. Trump, who is the Leader of a country that imports less German cars than the UK, threatens a 25% tariff on them. Junker gets on the first plane, kisses Trump on the cheek and offers a trade deal. I don't give a f*** who won that particular deal, as both of them would want to claim victory. My post wasn't about the EU vs the US, it was about May vs Trump. You see May, who is the Leader of a country that imports more German cars than any other country, threatens to do f*** all apart from offering a more generous trade deal with the EU, than Trump ever offered. May then gets on the first plane to the South of France, kisses Macron on the cheek and makes a fool of herself.

Still, forget trade deals and tell me about the "genetic contamination" again. I need a laugh...

[saint si]

Alright, I'll respond. Trump, who is the Leader of a country that imports less German cars than the UK...

 

or not... https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/visualize/tree_map/hs92/export/deu/show/8703/2016/

[Guided Missile]

You always fall back on insults.

Cry me a river...

Absolute ******** as always.

Precisely. Some awfully big chumps continue to swallow Trump’s horse****t

[Guided Missile]

The majority of the 108 laureates don't deny transgenic contamination. Neither do the USDA. hth. Heres some primary reading for you

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s40550-014-0005-8

https://www.usda.gov/sites/default/files/documents/EU_Comp_Schemes_on_GE_from_MM.pdf

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-biotech-crops-contamination/u-s-organic-food-industry-fears-gmo-contamination-idUSN1216250820080312?sp=true

https://www.usda.gov/sites/default/files/documents/ac21_report-enhancing-coexistence.pdf

You're hilarious. I grow wheat and this year, rapeseed. A £250k combine pops in to harvest the crop, takes the seeds to a merchant who weighs them and puts them in a silo, with all the other farmers seeds who can't afford a £250k combine. If I slapped a non-GM label on the combine before it left my farm, there would be a remote chance that a few of the seeds may be mixed with any GM labelled seeds left in the silo. That may alarm idiots like you who think that consuming GM seeds, or animals that have eaten them, would cause a health problem, but no one outside the EU gives a sh!t, because they only care about affordable food, not what they read in the Guardian. "Transgenic contamination"? Mate, stop googling and stop digging the hole you're in any deeper.

[buctootim]

tell me about the "genetic contamination" again. I need a laugh...

 

You're hilarious. I grow wheat and this year, rapeseed. A £250k combine pops in to harvest the crop, takes the seeds to a merchant who weighs them and puts them in a silo, with all the other farmers seeds who can't afford a £250k combine. If I slapped a non-GM label on the combine before it left my farm, there would be a remote chance that a few of the seeds may be mixed with any GM labelled seeds left in the silo. That may alarm idiots like you who think that consuming GM seeds, or animals that have eaten them, would cause a health problem, but no one outside the EU gives a sh!t, because they only care about affordable food, not what they read in the Guardian. "Transgenic contamination"? Mate, stop googling and stop digging the hole you're in any deeper.

 

Your lack of basic knowledge of an industry closely aligned to your own is frankly staggering. There is no commercially grown GM wheat, it isn't economically viable because the genome is much more complicated and expensive to modify than soya. Just in case you don't know who the USDA are - thats the United States Department of Agriculture.

 

 

A recent study by USDA scientists shows that genetically engineered (GE) alfalfa has gone wild, in a big way, in alfalfa-growing parts of the West. This feral GE alfalfa may help explain a number of transgenic contamination episodes over the past few years that have cost American alfalfa growers and exporters millions of dollars in lost revenue. And it also exposes the failure of USDA’s “coexistence” policy for GE and traditional crops."

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0143296

https://www.globalresearch.ca/usda-study-confirms-gm-contamination-between-gm-and-non-gm-crops-exposes-failure-of-coexistence-policy/5502386

 

the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) released information about an incident in Alberta where a small patch of unapproved genetically modified wheat was discovered. The wheat plants have a glyphosate resistant herbicide tolerance trait that was developed and tested by Monsanto in open-air field plots fifteen to twenty years ago. The nearest test plot site is over 300 kilometers from where the contamination incident was discovered.

http://www.nfu.ca/story/gm-wheat-contamination-incident-reminder-need-better-regulation

 

The Sonoma County Transgenic Contamination Prevention Ordinance No. 6196R took effect in November 2016. The purpose of the ordinance is to protect Sonoma County’s native plants, trees, and animals from transgenic contamination by genetically engineered organisms. Such organisms are also sometimes referred to as genetically modified organisms or GMOs.The ordinance makes it unlawful for any person, partnership, corporation, firm, or entity of any kind to propagate, cultivate, raise, or grow genetically engineered organisms in the unincorporated portions of Sonoma County.

https://sonomacounty.ca.gov/Agriculture-Weights-and-Measures/Agriculture-Division/Services/Transgenic-Contamination-Prevention-GMO/

 

A third of U.S. organic farmers have experienced problems in their fields due to the nearby use of genetically modified crops, and over half of those growers have had loads of grain rejected because of unwitting GMO contamination.

http://www.ipsnews.net/2014/03/farmers-address-u-s-data-gap-gm-crop-contamination/

Edited 9 August, 2018 by buctootim

[Tamesaint]

From the constant tirade of insults coming from Guided Missile I think that he may have started drinking early today.

 

You always know when he is losing an argument as that is when he starts the insults.

[Guided Missile]

From the constant tirade of insults coming from Guided Missile I think that he may have started drinking early today.

 

You always know when he is losing an argument as that is when he starts the insults.

What's your excuse for starting insults?

 

 

I put you on ignore after this particular and delightful example:

That may be obvious to you , me and most other people but when you have a grasp of facts like Jihadi John it is not so clear.

Took you off after this one:

Why not take people who you disagree with off ignore? You may not like their arguments but it will make you a more rounded individual.

Then you post this:

From the constant tirade of insults coming from Guided Missile I think that he may have started drinking early today.

You always know when he is losing an argument as that is when he starts the insults.

 

 

I know you're one of my trolls and would love to have a debate with someone you foolishly believe you are intellectually compatible with, but I'm afraid you're back on ignore for the main reason that you are a w@nk stain, as us Mensa members would describe you...

[badgerx16]

as us Mensa members would describe you...

Surely that should be "as we Mensa members..." ? ( Unless you are claiming to be part of a table ).

[Guided Missile]

Your lack of basic knowledge of an industry closely aligned to your own is frankly staggering. There is no commercially grown GM wheat, it isn't economically viable because the genome is much more complicated and expensive to modify than soya. Just in case you don't know who the USDA are - thats the United States Department of Agriculture.

I am aware of both points you have made above and have been grateful for the past 20 years that GM wheat has not been possible, due to the fact that I rely on cereal herbicide sales to run my business. When Bob Shapiro, (who I met a few times when I worked in the US), committed Monsanto to developing GM soya, resistant to the only decent herbicide they had, glyphosate, back in the 1980's, it effectively killed the many decent selective herbicides Cyanamid developed, the imidazolinone group. These were discovered by a mate of mine, Marinus Los, when we were both working at their US research centre in Princeton, NJ. My brother in law was a product manager for the first compound introduced, Pursuit, which sold $150 million in the first year. 5 years after GM soya was introduced, Cyanamid's imidazolinone products were basically dead and the company was sold to BASF.

You are such an intellectual midget who doesn't even read posts, because you are so keen to post your latest internet search that you think wins an argument. The crop I harvested this season was rape seed, as i posted. It's a common break crop, after wheat is grown, to put nitrogen back into the soil. It is also known in Canada and the US as canola. I'll leave a Google expert like you to use GM and canola as search terms to educate yourself.

 

I'm only going to comment on the first abstract you quote, by posting a brief part of the paper below the abstract.

 

A recent study by USDA scientists shows that genetically engineered (GE) alfalfa has gone wild, in a big way, in alfalfa-growing parts of the West. This feral GE alfalfa may help explain a number of transgenic contamination episodes over the past few years that have cost American alfalfa growers and exporters millions of dollars in lost revenue. And it also exposes the failure of USDA’s “coexistence” policy for GE and traditional crops."

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0143296

https://www.globalresearch.ca/usda-s...policy/5502386

 

However, the likelihood of seed spillage during production and transport had predictive value in explaining the occurrence of transgenic feral populations. Our study confirms that genetically engineered alfalfa has dispersed into the environment, and suggests that minimizing seed spillage and eradicating feral alfalfa along road sides would be effective strategies to minimize transgene dispersal.

 

After Proposition 37 was rejected by the electorate in California, the contamination of crops by GM varieties ceased to be an issue and is the main reason that the EU is forced to accept GM soya, because there is no such thing as 100% GM free soya, even when a farm wants to grow it. After it was kicked out by the consumers in California, the activists were forced to claim that glyphosate is carcinogenic, a claim that is totally false and spread by Marxist anti-capitalists. Google Prop. 37 and glyphosate carcinogen and learn something. Try and justify why Macron wants the EU to ban glyphosate by 2021. As I have said, it is probably because he is as dumb as you.

[Guided Missile]

Surely that should be "as we Mensa members..." ? ( Unless you are claiming to be part of a table ).

The Mensa comment was obviously ironic.

[badgerx16]

The Mensa comment was obviously ironic.

 

It was never in doubt.

[Tamesaint]

What's your excuse for starting insults?

 

 

I put you on ignore after this particular and delightful example:

 

Took you off after this one:

 

Then you post this:

 

 

 

I know you're one of my trolls and would love to have a debate with someone you foolishly believe you are intellectually compatible with, but I'm afraid you're back on ignore for the main reason that you are a w@nk stain, as us Mensa members would describe you...

 

I think I went off you ehen you asked me a question. I answered thinking that a debate with you would be good and you called me a patronising p rock

 

I think you deserve all the scorn that you get you stupid old drunkard.

[Guided Missile]

I think you deserve all the scorn that you get you stupid old drunkard.

xxx

From the constant tirade of insults coming from Tamesaint I think that he may have started drinking early today.

 

You always know when he is losing an argument as that is when he starts the insults.

[buctootim]

I am aware of both points you have made above and have been grateful for the past 20 years that GM wheat has not been possible, due to the fact that I rely on cereal herbicide sales to run my business. When Bob Shapiro, (who I met a few times when I worked in the US), committed Monsanto to developing GM soya, resistant to the only decent herbicide they had, glyphosate, back in the 1980's, it effectively killed the many decent selective herbicides Cyanamid developed, the imidazolinone group. These were discovered by a mate of mine, Marinus Los, when we were both working at their US research centre in Princeton, NJ. My brother in law was a product manager for the first compound introduced, Pursuit, which sold $150 million in the first year. 5 years after GM soya was introduced, Cyanamid's imidazolinone products were basically dead and the company was sold to BASF.

You are such an intellectual midget who doesn't even read posts, because you are so keen to post your latest internet search that you think wins an argument. The crop I harvested this season was rape seed, as i posted. It's a common break crop, after wheat is grown, to put nitrogen back into the soil. It is also known in Canada and the US as canola. I'll leave a Google expert like you to use GM and canola as search terms to educate yourself.

 

I'm only going to comment on the first abstract you quote, by posting a brief part of the paper below the abstract.

 

 

 

 

 

After Proposition 37 was rejected by the electorate in California, the contamination of crops by GM varieties ceased to be an issue and is the main reason that the EU is forced to accept GM soya, because there is no such thing as 100% GM free soya, even when a farm wants to grow it. After it was kicked out by the consumers in California, the activists were forced to claim that glyphosate is carcinogenic, a claim that is totally false and spread by Marxist anti-capitalists. Google Prop. 37 and glyphosate carcinogen and learn something. Try and justify why Macron wants the EU to ban glyphosate by 2021. As I have said, it is probably because he is as dumb as you.

 

You're deflecting, dissembling and contradicting yourself, again. Its you who makes a fool of yourself. No-one else needs chip in.

 

ps I largely wrote the organic certification standards for oilseed rape and advise two of the big supermarkets on purchasing. I always bear you in mind.

Edited 10 August, 2018 by buctootim

[moonraker]

You're deflecting, dissembling and contradicting yourself, again. Its you who makes a fool of yourself. No-one else needs chip in.

 

ps I largely wrote the organic certification standards for oilseed rape and advise two of the big supermarkets on purchasing. I always bear you in mind.

 

you are wasting your time, a zealot finds it impossible to process anything that contradicts their ideology. Whatever reality you present is roundly rejected. I cannot imagine what strange universe GM resides in but to date un-discovered by humankind.

[Tamesaint]

What's your excuse for starting insults?

 

 

I put you on ignore after this particular and delightful example:

 

Took you off after this one:

 

Then you post this:

 

 

 

I know you're one of my trolls and would love to have a debate with someone you foolishly believe you are intellectually compatible with, but I'm afraid you're back on ignore for the main reason that you are a w@nk stain, as us Mensa members would describe you...

 

A graduate from Pompey Poly claiming to be an intellectual. How funny.

 

If you are so clever why didn't you go to a university....thicko.

[Verbal]

Brexit, as we'll look back on it from our sunlit uplands...a brief but apposite documentary on how we got where we always knew we'd go.

 

[moonraker]

Listening to this Radio 4 Series might improve the standard of debate in this thread, and indeed in many others : https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bfd2qr

[badgerx16]

Yet again, Sixtus' dad shows how out of touch with reality he is, by suggesting the issue of the NI-Eire border post-Brexit is solved by going back to the arrangements we had during 'the Troubles'.

[OldNick]

the Guardian is not Labour supporting lol https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/there’s-only-one-way-to-stop-brexit-from-the-ground-up/ar-BBMAm6C?ocid=spartanntp

How is Brexit a Tory thing btw,there were as many Labour supporters voting for it but it has become a Tory policy!! The Tories happen to be in power and so their job is to follow the nations wishes, Im not happy that we are leaving but it is a poisoned chalice to have to negotiate it. Personally I think May is doing the best she can, considering that the EU hold all the cards.

[aintforever]

the Guardian is not Labour supporting lol https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/there’s-only-one-way-to-stop-brexit-from-the-ground-up/ar-BBMAm6C?ocid=spartanntp

How is Brexit a Tory thing btw,there were as many Labour supporters voting for it but it has become a Tory policy!! The Tories happen to be in power and so their job is to follow the nations wishes, Im not happy that we are leaving but it is a poisoned chalice to have to negotiate it. Personally I think May is doing the best she can, considering that the EU hold all the cards.

 

To be fair the Conservatives called the referendum, the vast majority of MPs who supported Brexit were Tory and Boris basically won it for Leave. Plus they are the party implementing it.

[Verbal]

the Guardian is not Labour supporting lol https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/there’s-only-one-way-to-stop-brexit-from-the-ground-up/ar-BBMAm6C?ocid=spartanntp

How is Brexit a Tory thing btw,there were as many Labour supporters voting for it but it has become a Tory policy!!

 

This is a myth. Even in Labour seats where voters voted Leave, the majority of LABOUR voters voted to remain. Overall, about two-thirds of Labour voters voted to remain, so chasing the leavers voting for the party would be a disastrous policy. There's a small chance even Corbyn understands this.

 

The myth persists presumably because people forget that Labour voters are not the only voters in Labour constituencies. There are lots of Tories and kippers too.

 

Here John Curtice on the subject:

 

http://ukandeu.ac.uk/is-labours-brexit-dilemma-being-misunderstood/

[OldNick]

This is a myth. Even in Labour seats where voters voted Leave, the majority of LABOUR voters voted to remain. Overall, about two-thirds of Labour voters voted to remain, so chasing the leavers voting for the party would be a disastrous policy. There's a small chance even Corbyn understands this.

 

The myth persists presumably because people forget that Labour voters are not the only voters in Labour constituencies. There are lots of Tories and kippers too.

 

Here John Curtice on the subject:

 

http://ukandeu.ac.uk/is-labours-brexit-dilemma-being-misunderstood/

Polls and surveys are so inaccurate, I wouldn't hold too much credence in a poll of 30k people. A percentage don't tell the truth anyway. Fact is millions of people voted out and not all were Tories by a long shot, hence Sunderland , Grimby etc voted out.

[shurlock]

Polls and surveys are so inaccurate, I wouldn't hold too much credence in a poll of 30k people. A percentage don't tell the truth anyway. Fact is millions of people voted out and not all were Tories by a long shot, hence Sunderland , Grimby etc voted out.

 

#clueless

[OldNick]

#clueless

Surely should be #clueless Pal

[OldNick]

#clueless

I may add, please let me know how correct straw polls have been in the last major elections ? 30k people canvassed or 30k labour supportersBTW

[Verbal]

Polls and surveys are so inaccurate, I wouldn't hold too much credence in a poll of 30k people. A percentage don't tell the truth anyway. Fact is millions of people voted out and not all were Tories by a long shot, hence Sunderland , Grimby etc voted out.

 

You didn't read the article, did you. Or if you did, you didn't understand it.

[aintforever]

Polls and surveys are so inaccurate, I wouldn't hold too much credence in a poll of 30k people. A percentage don't tell the truth anyway. Fact is millions of people voted out and not all were Tories by a long shot, hence Sunderland , Grimby etc voted out.

 

You're right, a lot of Labour supporting areas voted for Brexit so many people who usually vote Labour would have voted for Brexit. But voters going on way or the other is a bit different to party members and MPs campaigning on the issue IMO.

 

1. Cameron called the referendum then the next day proceeded to make out leaving would be a fate worse than death. It made no sense - how were the electorate supposed to take project fear seriously when its cheerleader was the person who thought it was a good idea to hold a referendum in the first place. It's like me holding a poll on here for 'should I punch myself in the face?' - no good can come of it, for me anyway.

 

2. The conservatives have always been perceived as the party to trust on for above all, business and the economy. Again it's hard to blame the electorate for ignoring project fear when shed loads of Tory MPs and high profile ones like Boris inparticular campaigned for leave.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Polls and surveys are so inaccurate, I wouldn't hold too much credence in a poll of 30k people. A percentage don't tell the truth anyway. Fact is millions of people voted out and not all were Tories by a long shot, hence Sunderland , Grimby etc voted out.

 

I thought the point was a small subsection of society CAN predict a result?

[shurlock]

I may add, please let me know how correct straw polls have been in the last major elections ? 30k people canvassed or 30k labour supportersBTW

 

I hope you’re not tired of experts too pal?

 

Let’s be clear: this is not a poll or survey in the sense you’re implying - one based on voters intentions. Intentions can be an unreliable guide for various reasons: voters may make up their minds only at the last minute; others may not actually bother going out and voting; and others may be shy about revealing their preferences. The survey in question is conducted after the election, based on voters actual behaviour and thus far more robust.

 

Surveys generated in the heat of an election have other limitations. They are typically smaller, though elementary statistics tells us that’s not a problem in and of itself. More problematic is that they are not always random -thus certain segments of the electorate may be more likely to pick up the phone or use the internet when pollsters try to interview them. Survey companies can use weighting techniques to correct for these biases but these are often very messy.

 

All this will necessarily skew the survey’s representativeness - regardless of size. This is less of a problem for something like the British Election Survey which is carefully designed to ensure a random sample (if only by virtue of the fact that it doesn’t face the same time constraints). In this respect a survey of 30,000, based on a robust sample frame, is more than sufficient to be representative of the UK electorate.

Edited 30 August, 2018 by shurlock

[Lord Duckhunter]

I thought the point was a small subsection of society CAN predict a result?

 

Id imagine it’s harder with a referendum than a FPTP General election. You don’t even need to poll half the seats as you’ll know the result regardless. My dog could stand as a Tory in my constituency of Poole and win, whereas nobody had a clue how many Leave voters there were. It was only on Independence Day when I went up the polling station that I realised we had a chance. It was mobbed, I’d never seen so many people voting. I talked to the sad sack Lib Dem who for some unknown reason always stands outside at every election , and he was genuinely shocked by the turn out. Predicting turnout must be so much harder in a referendum than a GE. One, people will vote knowing their vote will count, and two you don’t really know how motivated people are to vote and how important the issue is to people who don’t normally care about politics.

 

Living in a safe seat, it was a nice change to have a vote that actually counted. My MP is a pompous arse, a soft pinko halfwit, when I pointed this out to him via an email regarding his support for May’s turd policy (not quite in those terms) his reply was “ I have a 14,000 majority, so I must be doing something right”. I replied that he was inspirational, and that he had inspired me..... inspired me to join Banksies blue wave, join the party to get a proper leader in charge, and then to try and deselect his sorry fat arse.

 

 

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