Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[shurlock]

A potted history of Brexit Jihadism:

 

1. Believe the Bus!

2. No one's saying we have the single market!

3. (Let's not even mention the customs union)

4. You'll be swamped by Turkish hordes!!

5. Cake and eat it.

6. Sunny uplands.

7. Project Fear!!

8. To hell with all experts

9. To hell with the Good Friday agreement

10. To hell with the single market

11. To hell with the customs union

12. **** business!

13. Remoaning traitors!

 

With this overflow of rage, I dread to think what happens next.

 

“We hold all the cards”.

[Verbal]

“We hold all the cards”.

 

Yep. Forgot that one, and there must be dozens more. It's so hard to keep up with all the bullsh it.

[CB Fry]

They can whistle for any severance payment.

[Winnersaint]

**** business

[shurlock]

Within two years, before the negotiation with the EU is likely to be complete, and therefore before anything material has changed, we can negotiate a free trade area massively larger than the EU … The new trade agreements will come into force at the point of exit, but they will be fully negotiated.

[shurlock]

A trade deal with the EU should be “one of the easiest in human history” to strike.

[shurlock]

What we have come up with is the idea of a comprehensive free trade agreement and a comprehensive customs agreement that will deliver the exact same benefits as we have.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Because the Tories are so hopelessly divided, the majority is so small and she hasn't got bravery or leadership skills . She should have picked a side ages ago, set out a clear vision and dared rebel MPs to challenge her.

 

I'm not so sure the Tories are "hopelessly" divided, there's a dozen or so remain extremists, the rest just want us out , there maybe divisions on how we get out, but I'm pretty sure a deal like Tusk proposed in March would get the vast vast majority of Tory MP's voting for it. The party as a whole is certainly not divided The Soubry, Grieve wing of the party would get annihilated if their candidate got into the final two. Because of this the only side she could of picked and remained in charge was the leave side. I doubt Grieve and his bunch of ideologues could muster enough letters to even get a vote of confidence called. The other side clearly can, and will do so at a time of their choosing. Personally, I think they should do it now, but they've obviously doubts as she may survive it. I guess they're waiting until the EU water down chequers and then more will want her out.

 

She did have a plan and vision, from Lancaster house to Mansion house via Florence, she spelt it out. She just didn't have the balls, leadership or belief to stick to it.

Edited 21 July, 2018 by Lord Duckhunter

[Nolan]

Two thirds of Conservative members oppose May's plan.

 

 

https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018/07/our-snap-survey-tory-member-support-for-mays-brexit-plan-falls-two-in-three-are-now-opposed-to-it.html

[scotty]

Interesting piece from John Gray.

 

A Point of View - Brexit and Illiberal Europe - @bbcradio4 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b9zvtf

[shurlock]

I'm not so sure the Tories are "hopelessly" divided, there's a dozen or so remain extremists, the rest just want us out , there maybe divisions on how we get out, but I'm pretty sure a deal like Tusk proposed in March would get the vast vast majority of Tory MP's voting for it. The party as a whole is certainly not divided The Soubry, Grieve wing of the party would get annihilated if their candidate got into the final two. Because of this the only side she could of picked and remained in charge was the leave side. I doubt Grieve and his bunch of ideologues could muster enough letters to even get a vote of confidence called. The other side clearly can, and will do so at a time of their choosing. Personally, I think they should do it now, but they've obviously doubts as she may survive it. I guess they're waiting until the EU water down chequers and then more will want her out.

 

She did have a plan and vision, from Lancaster house to Mansion house via Florence, she spelt it out. She just didn't have the balls, leadership or belief to stick to it.

 

Then you have a comprehension problem because her Florence speech, in particular, foreshadowed many of the compromises to come.

[Lord Duckhunter]

John major on Marr today calling for a second referendum.

 

Here’s what he said on the very same show before the 2016 referendum.

 

“If we come out, we’re out. That’s it. It’s not politically credible to say let’s have another referendum, we’ve reconsidered. If we vote to stay out, we are out, and will just have to get on with it”.

 

Of course, once his side lost it all changed.

 

 

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[scotty]

John major on Marr today calling for a second referendum.

 

Here’s what he said on the very same show before the 2016 referendum.

 

“If we come out, we’re out. That’s it. It’s not politically credible to say let’s have another referendum, we’ve reconsidered. If we vote to stay out, we are out, and will just have to get on with it”.

 

Of course, once his side lost it all changed.

 

 

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Major was a comical figure in government and is a laughing stock now. He's the master of stating the bleeding obvious as if dispensing pearls of hitherto undreamed of political insight. I have no idea why programmers still wheel him out, he adds nothing to any debate.

[whelk]

Major was a comical figure in government and is a laughing stock now. He's the master of stating the bleeding obvious as if dispensing pearls of hitherto undreamed of political insight. I have no idea why programmers still wheel him out, he adds nothing to any debate.

 

Actually likes of him and Heseltine are worth listening to. Fact that idiots mock someone who changes their mind just shows how fcked we all are on this road to Brexit and how fcked generally politics are these days.

[whelk]

John major on Marr today calling for a second referendum.

 

Here’s what he said on the very same show before the 2016 referendum.

 

“If we come out, we’re out. That’s it. It’s not politically credible to say let’s have another referendum, we’ve reconsidered. If we vote to stay out, we are out, and will just have to get on with it”.

 

Of course, once his side lost it all changed.

 

 

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Your point? Your lot had it all worked out from the off did they? Two years on and everyone seems to be clueless.

[CB Fry]

John major on Marr today calling for a second referendum.

 

Here’s what he said on the very same show before the 2016 referendum.

 

“If we come out, we’re out. That’s it. It’s not politically credible to say let’s have another referendum, we’ve reconsidered. If we vote to stay out, we are out, and will just have to get on with it”.

 

Of course, once his side lost it all changed.

 

 

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Farage was talking about how it "wasn't over" if Leave lost narrowly 48-52 on the night of the referendum.

 

Of course, once his side won it all changed.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Farage was talking about how it "wasn't over" if Leave lost narrowly 48-52 on the night of the referendum.

 

Of course, once his side won it all changed.

 

Course it wasn't over. Do the Scottish Nats stop wanting and campaigning for independence just because they lost a referendum . It's not over for Major or any of the other remain fanatics, they can campaign all they want to take us back into the EU. But thats not what they're doing though is it, they're campaigning to overturn the original vote before it's even been implemented, which is an entirely different thing.

 

 

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[shurlock]

The jihadists still claiming to know what kind of Brexit 17.4 million people voted for

Edited 22 July, 2018 by shurlock

[Lord Duckhunter]

Actually likes of him and Heseltine are worth listening to.

 

 

Not if you’re a Tory they’re not.

 

Johnny Major took Maggie’s 102 majority and turned it into 21. Then he had 5 years of his own government , the last 2 with Hestletine as his deputy. He managed to lose 4.4 million votes and and give Labour a majority of 179.

 

He’s by far and away the biggest loser in modern Tory history and when you’re up against Grocer Heath, Cameron and May, that takes some doing. Mind you, May’s giving him a run for his money.

 

 

 

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[shurlock]

Not if you’re a Tory they’re not.

 

Johnny Major took Maggie’s 102 majority and turned it into 21. Then he had 5 years of his own government , the last 2 with Hestletine as his deputy. He managed to lose 4.4 million votes and and give Labour a majority of 179.

 

He’s by far and away the biggest loser in modern Tory history and when you’re up against Grocer Heath, Cameron and May, that takes some doing. Mind you, May’s giving him a run for his money.

 

 

 

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What pony.

 

Major inherited a mess from Thatcher -whether it was the recession, the Poll Tax or the party indiscipline and disunity that comes with being in power for so long.

 

Unsurprisingly, many expected a Labour victory or a hung parliament in 1992: to what extent the Conservatives won it (they received the largest number of votes in British electoral history) or Kinnock missed an open goal and lost it for Labour is open to debate. But the fact remains Major did pretty well with a very bad hand of cards.

Edited 23 July, 2018 by shurlock

[CB Fry]

Not if you’re a Tory they’re not.

 

Johnny Major took Maggie’s 102 majority and turned it into 21. Then he had 5 years of his own government , the last 2 with Hestletine as his deputy. He managed to lose 4.4 million votes and and give Labour a majority of 179.

 

He’s by far and away the biggest loser in modern Tory history and when you’re up against Grocer Heath, Cameron and May, that takes some doing. Mind you, May’s giving him a run for his money.

 

 

 

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As Shurlock says, Major famously received the highest number of votes ever in a general election. Ever. And against all odds. Hardly the performance of the biggest loser in history.

 

You seem to be forgetting the shower of sh it that led the party after that. Hague, Michael Howard and of course the beyond pathetic Iain Duncan Smith, possibly the worst leader of any political party in the history of humanity.

 

Weird why you haven't mention how utterly dreadful IDS was. He took appalling leadership, the total inability to deliver a conference speech, participate in PMQs or do anything remotely useful and took it to an art form. The most miserable performance of a born loser history has ever known.

 

Why have you forgotten him? He was absolutely laughably fu cking useless. I mean, what a loser.

[Guided Missile]

When history is written, it will be clear that the current leaders of the three main parties, May, Corbyn and Cable, will be seen as the worst this country has ever had, by a country mile. All this, arguably, while facing the most critical challenge our government has faced since the war. No wonder people are disengaging from politics in their droves. Traitor May spending her summer selling a pig in a poke, Corbyn redefining anti-semitism and Cable busy setting up another party.

What a shower of sh! t they are...

[Verbal]

When history is written.

 

Thank you Moses. When will that be then, when we start writing history?

[Guided Missile]

Thank you Moses. When will that be then, when we start writing history?

That's a bit anti-semitic, mate...

[Verbal]

That's a bit anti-semitic, mate...

 

I'm absolutely not a member of the Labour party JJ.

[scotty]

As Shurlock says, Major famously received the highest number of votes ever in a general election. Ever. And against all odds. Hardly the performance of the biggest loser in history.

 

You seem to be forgetting the shower of sh it that led the party after that. Hague, Michael Howard and of course the beyond pathetic Iain Duncan Smith, possibly the worst leader of any political party in the history of humanity.

 

Weird why you haven't mention how utterly dreadful IDS was. He took appalling leadership, the total inability to deliver a conference speech, participate in PMQs or do anything remotely useful and took it to an art form. The most miserable performance of a born loser history has ever known.

 

Why have you forgotten him? He was absolutely laughably fu cking useless. I mean, what a loser.

 

Major's only notable achievement in office was to secure the euro opt-out. His record number of votes at the election has to be seen in the context of overwhelming tabloid bias at a time when what the Sun printed really did make a difference at the polling booths, and the abysmal showing Kinnock produced. When the "dream ticket" published their economic plans it could only ever go one way, people weren't just voting against them on principle, it was as much fear as self interest which imho was why the libs didn't benefit as much as might have been expected.

[Plastic]

When history is written, it will be clear that the current leaders of the three main parties, May, Corbyn and Cable, will be seen as the worst this country has ever had, by a country mile.

 

Who would get your vote then? Boris? Gove? Rees-Mogg?

Or are you holding out for the return of the Nigel?

[trousers]

John major on Marr today calling for a second referendum.

 

Here’s what he said on the very same show before the 2016 referendum.

 

“If we come out, we’re out. That’s it. It’s not politically credible to say let’s have another referendum, we’ve reconsidered. If we vote to stay out, we are out, and will just have to get on with it”.

 

Of course, once his side lost it all changed.

 

 

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Putting the referendum to one side for a mo, at a conceptual/philosophical level, what's wrong with arriving at a different point of view when circumstances change and/or new information comes to light in a given scenario?

 

For example, I used to quite like Rolf Harris. I don't any more though.

[buctootim]

Putting the referendum to one side for a mo, at a conceptual/philosophical level, what's wrong with arriving at a different point of view when circumstances change and/or new information comes to light in a given scenario?

 

For example, I used to quite like Rolf Harris. I don't any more though.

 

 

Are you saying Boris is Rolf? Maybe GM can lend you his libel lawyer

 

Keynes' famous quote has a couple of versions but both fit Brexit. “When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?” or “When my information changes, I alter my conclusions.”

[aintforever]

When history is written, it will be clear that the current leaders of the three main parties, May, Corbyn and Cable, will be seen as the worst this country has ever had, by a country mile. All this, arguably, while facing the most critical challenge our government has faced since the war. No wonder people are disengaging from politics in their droves. Traitor May spending her summer selling a pig in a poke, Corbyn redefining anti-semitism and Cable busy setting up another party.

What a shower of sh! t they are...

 

Can't argue with that. Our government is a mess and the opposition have paralysed themselves with system that means their leader is an unelectable idiot. That should all leave the Lib Dems with an open goal but they put a corpse in charge.

 

You have to fear for the country under the current system. When these three old tossers is all we have to choose from it has to be said that the red v blue thing has just had it's day. The next election will just be millions of people voting keep out who they hate the most.

[shurlock]

Sounds like a good, old fashioned shakedown. And I thought Brexit was about the UK taking back control, not being so weak that it can be held to ransom by special interests.

 

US banks urge UK to cut corporate taxes to stop Brexit exodus

 

https://www.ft.com/content/3a2a5598-8d9a-11e8-b639-7680cedcc421

Edited 23 July, 2018 by shurlock

[Lord Duckhunter]

 

Keynes' famous quote has a couple of versions but both fit Brexit. “When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?” or “When my information changes, I alter my conclusions.”

 

 

Every unprincipled politicians get out. Of course you’ll only apply it to ones that agree with you. I bet you weren’t so understanding when Clegg changed his mind on tuition fees.

 

 

 

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[buctootim]

Every unprincipled politicians get out. Of course you’ll only apply it to ones that agree with you. I bet you weren’t so understanding when Clegg changed his mind on tuition fees.

 

Are you really saying no-one should ever change their mind no matter how circumstances change? Wow, if you were PM you'd be able to wipe out divorce, people changing jobs or swapping tv channels when they get bored.

 

Clegg didnt change his view, he simply abided by cabinet collective responsibility in a coalition government. You don't get everything you want. Boris et al could learn a lot from him about pi ssing in the tent

Edited 23 July, 2018 by buctootim

[Lord Duckhunter]

Are you really saying no-one should ever change their mind no matter how circumstances change? Wow, if you were PM you'd be able to wipe out divorce, people changing jobs or swapping tv channels when they get bored.

 

 

Don’t talk nonsense. A politician claiming before a vote that you can’t have a second one, but then calling for a second one just because his side lost, is a completely different thing than divorce or swapping TV channels. Is the next one going to be final, or if you lose again will remoaners “change their mind” and call for another one and then another, how many will it take before we finally leave, 4,5,6?. Why don’t we have one every 4 years, like the World Cup? Perhaps Adonis, Gina Miller or AC Wailing could try and chuck one of Gove’s shoes over a Big Ben , if he manages to do so, w e remain in The EU. That’ll sort it once and for all.

 

 

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[buctootim]

Don’t talk nonsense. A politician claiming before a vote that you can’t have a second one, but then calling for a second one just because his side lost, is a completely different thing than divorce or swapping TV channels. Is the next one going to be final, or if you lose again will remoaners “change their mind” and call for another one and then another, how many will it take before we finally leave, 4,5,6?. Why don’t we have one every 4 years, like the World Cup? Perhaps Adonis, Gina Miller or AC Wailing could try and chuck one of Gove’s shoes over a Big Ben , if he manages to do so, w e remain in The EU. That’ll sort it once and for all.

 

If the result had been something like 60:40 the issue of a second vote likely wouldn't arise. With a 52:48 result all it takes is one person in 50 to have changed their minds in the intervening two years to give a different result. You often argue its okay to overturn the 1975 referendum result because the EU is different now to the EC we joined. Thats fine. The outcome now is different to what people were promised / threatened with two years ago. What is wrong with a vote on the reality of our choices?

Edited 23 July, 2018 by buctootim

[OldNick]

When history is written, it will be clear that the current leaders of the three main parties, May, Corbyn and Cable, will be seen as the worst this country has ever had, by a country mile. All this, arguably, while facing the most critical challenge our government has faced since the war. No wonder people are disengaging from politics in their droves. Traitor May spending her summer selling a pig in a poke, Corbyn redefining anti-semitism and Cable busy setting up another party.

What a shower of sh! t they are...

I would suggest that Chamberlain, Callaghan, Wilson, Cameron, and Heath would be higher up that chain

[OldNick]

If any of the leavers are certain of their convictions that Brexit is good, then they should not be fearful of another vote.

Afterall I'm sure the red bus can be brought out again to get the votes.

 

Perhaps we should go for the no deal and see whathappens, rather than the weakening all the time of our position. TM was right in that a no deal is better than a bad deal. £36Billion not going to the EU may well absorb some of our pain, but I doubt we could leave and not pay of course.

[buctootim]

£36Billion not going to the EU may well absorb some of our pain, but I doubt we could leave and not pay of course.

 

The debt to the EU isnt going to go away if we leave. Its money owed for expenditure we signed up to and is already committed - things like Farage's pension.

[shurlock]

If any of the leavers are certain of their convictions that Brexit is good, then they should not be fearful of another vote.

Afterall I'm sure the red bus can be brought out again to get the votes.

 

Perhaps we should go for the no deal and see whathappens, rather than the weakening all the time of our position. TM was right in that a no deal is better than a bad deal. £36Billion not going to the EU may well absorb some of our pain, but I doubt we could leave and not pay of course.

 

If the final deal was the current Chequers proposal, it would still be better than a no deal.

[Wade Garrett]

The debt to the EU isnt going to go away if we leave. Its money owed for expenditure we signed up to and is already committed - things like Farage's pension.

And Mr & Mrs Kinnock and Peter Mandelson, hence their desperation for us to stay so they can keep their seats on the gravy train.

[Lord Duckhunter]

If any of the leavers are certain of their convictions that Brexit is good, then they should not be fearful of another vote.

 

 

And another, and another and another. Let’s keep having them, until we vote the right way. Or we could follow the Governments £9 mil leaflet which stated

 

“A once in a generation decision”

 

“The referendum on Thursday, 23 June is your chance to decide if we should remain in or leave the European Union.

 

The government believes it is in the best interests of the UK to remain in the EU.

 

This is the way to protect jobs, provide security, and strengthen the UK’s economy for every family in this country – a clear path into the future, in contrast to the uncertainty of leaving.

 

This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide.”

 

 

 

Perhaps they should have written

 

A once every 2 years decision

The referendum on Thursday, 23 June is your chance to decide if we should remain in or vote again.

 

The government believes it is in the best interests of the UK to remain in the EU.

 

This is the way to protect jobs, provide security, and strengthen the UK’s economy for every family in this country – a clear path into the future, in contrast to the uncertainty of leaving.

 

This is your decision. The government will make you vote again and again until you decide to remain in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[buctootim]

And another, and another and another. Let’s keep having them, until we vote the right way.

 

Meh. You're just spooked because latest polls show 55% would rather stay in the EU than leave with no deal.

[buctootim]

Rees-Mogg backs a second referendum

[shurlock]

Rees-Mogg backs a second referendum

 

My real-life pal Adonis has been pointing this out for ages (though I think he’s overegging things as he’s prone to do).

[buctootim]

My real-life pal Adonis has been pointing this out for ages (though I think he’s overegging things as he’s prone to do).

 

Maybe so, but i bet Express readers haven't seen it. I wonder if he is also now a filthy traitor who needs to be deselected.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Rees-Mogg backs a second referendum

 

A referendum on Out with the deal or out with no deal isn't a second referendum. It'll be the first referendum on whether to enter a trade deal with The EU .

 

 

 

 

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[Lord Duckhunter]

Meh. You're just spooked because latest polls show 55% would rather stay in the EU than leave with no deal.

 

Not at all. Even if we did lose the 2018 one, I'm pretty confident we could win the 2020 or the 2022 one.

 

 

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[moonraker]

And another, and another and another. Let’s keep having them, until we vote the right way. Or we could follow the Governments £9 mil leaflet which stated

 

“A once in a generation decision”

 

“The referendum on Thursday, 23 June is your chance to decide if we should remain in or leave the European Union.

 

The government believes it is in the best interests of the UK to remain in the EU.

 

This is the way to protect jobs, provide security, and strengthen the UK’s economy for every family in this country – a clear path into the future, in contrast to the uncertainty of leaving.

 

This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide.”

 

 

 

Perhaps they should have written

 

A once every 2 years decision

The referendum on Thursday, 23 June is your chance to decide if we should remain in or vote again.

 

The government believes it is in the best interests of the UK to remain in the EU.

 

This is the way to protect jobs, provide security, and strengthen the UK’s economy for every family in this country – a clear path into the future, in contrast to the uncertainty of leaving.

 

This is your decision. The government will make you vote again and again until you decide to remain in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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And another, and another and another. Let’s keep having them, until we vote the right way. Or we could follow the Governments £9 mil leaflet which stated

 

“A once in a generation decision”

 

“The referendum on Thursday, 23 June is your chance to decide if we should remain in or leave the European Union.

 

The government believes it is in the best interests of the UK to remain in the EU.

 

This is the way to protect jobs, provide security, and strengthen the UK’s economy for every family in this country – a clear path into the future, in contrast to the uncertainty of leaving.

 

This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide.”

 

 

 

Perhaps they should have written

 

A once every 2 years decision

The referendum on Thursday, 23 June is your chance to decide if we should remain in or vote again.

 

The government believes it is in the best interests of the UK to remain in the EU.

 

This is the way to protect jobs, provide security, and strengthen the UK’s economy for every family in this country – a clear path into the future, in contrast to the uncertainty of leaving.

 

This is your decision. The government will make you vote again and again until you decide to remain in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just out of interest if the referendum had gone in favour of remain by the same narrow margin would you have sucked it up and shut up, or like your mate Farage would it have been unfinished business, just asking.

 

 

 

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And another, and another and another. Let’s keep having them, until we vote the right way. Or we could follow the Governments £9 mil leaflet which stated

 

“A once in a generation decision”

 

“The referendum on Thursday, 23 June is your chance to decide if we should remain in or leave the European Union.

 

The government believes it is in the best interests of the UK to remain in the EU.

 

This is the way to protect jobs, provide security, and strengthen the UK’s economy for every family in this country – a clear path into the future, in contrast to the uncertainty of leaving.

 

This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide.”

 

 

 

Perhaps they should have written

 

A once every 2 years decision

The referendum on Thursday, 23 June is your chance to decide if we should remain in or vote again.

 

The government believes it is in the best interests of the UK to remain in the EU.

 

This is the way to protect jobs, provide security, and strengthen the UK’s economy for every family in this country – a clear path into the future, in contrast to the uncertainty of leaving.

 

This is your decision. The government will make you vote again and again until you decide to remain in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just out of interest if the referendum had gone in favour of remain by the same narrow margin would you have sucked it up and shut up, or like your mate Farage would it have been unfinished business, just asking.

 

 

 

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Just out of interest, if the referendum had gone in favour of remain would have sucked it up and shut or like your mate Farage would it have been unfinished business, just asking.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Just out of interest, if the referendum had gone in favour of remain would have sucked it up and shut or like your mate Farage would it have been unfinished business, just asking.

 

Should The SNP disband and stop campaigning for independence, of course they shouldn’t. Clearly you’re not comparing like for like, because there was nothing to implement had Remain won. However, if we weren’t in the EU and had voted to join, I’d be out campaigning to leave as soon as possible. What I wouldn’t do is try to frustrate, and overturn the mandate to enter.

 

Remoaners aren’t campaigning to re join the EU they’re campaigning to stop the vote being implemented. That’s the difference.

 

 

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[shurlock]

Should The SNP disband and stop campaigning for independence, of course they shouldn’t. Clearly you’re not comparing like for like, because there was nothing to implement had Remain won. However, if we weren’t in the EU and had voted to join, I’d be out campaigning to leave as soon as possible. What I wouldn’t do is try to frustrate, and overturn the mandate to enter.

 

Remoaners aren’t campaigning to re join the EU they’re campaigning to stop the vote being implemented. That’s the difference.

 

 

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Still need to blame others rather than look in the mirror and face a few home truths.

 

The only reason there might be a second referendum won't be because of dastardly remainers; it will be because the brexiteers failed to come up with a plan that delivered on the contradictory promises made to 17.4 million voters. The only people to blame will be those who sold you a pup pal. Nobody else.

Edited 23 July, 2018 by shurlock