Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[Cabbage_Face]

So then you are for a people's vote on the brexit deal, right? Rather than leaving it up to MPs.

 

Yep, sadly the MP's know the public would be in the Majority Hard Brexit, none of this flacid crap.

[buctootim]

Well long live democracy, and thats the very reason the EU is a horrid organisation. How dare the people that pay the taxes have a say in how the country is run.

 

I used to work in health services planning. We experimented with Citizens Juries to decide NHS funding priorities. After a fairly short while they were scrapped. Why? Because consistently although 'ordinary' people frequently expressed different opinions and priorities initially, once they had spent a month learning about an issue, hearing evidence and asking questions of medical specialists they invariably came to the same conclusions and priorities as the professionals.

 

People change their mind once they have full information. Ask them if they want to save pre-term babies born at 22 weeks the answer is yes. Ask them if they want to save pre-term babies born at 22 weeks even if 85% will have a major lifetime disabilities, likely be blind and severely mentally disabled and cost the NHS / Social Services c£3m over their lifetimes, you get a different answer.

[Cabbage_Face]

I used to work in health services planning. We experimented with Citizens Juries to decide NHS funding priorities. After a fairly short while they were scrapped. Why? Because consistently although 'ordinary' people frequently expressed different opinions and priorities initially, once they had spent a month learning about an issue, hearing evidence and asking questions of medical specialists they invariably came to the same conclusions and priorities as the professionals.

 

People change their mind once they have full information. Ask them if they want to save pre-term babies born at 22 weeks the answer is yes. Ask them if they want to save pre-term babies born at 22 weeks even if 85% will have a major lifetime disabilities, likely be blind and severely mentally disabled and cost the NHS / Social Services c£3m over their lifetimes, you get a different answer.

 

You're right, ban voting.

[Guided Missile]

What's wrong with it is that the Irish are effectively stealing tax dollars from the US, whilst benefiting from the effective protection afforded to them under NATO. They spend the lowest on defence in the EU as a percentage of GDP, lower than their fellow tax dodgers, Luxembourg. Still, the Germans are equally bad at shirking common defence spending, while the UK is the highest. No wonder Trump is going to pull out of NATO with these EU free loaders around.

 

EU Freeloaders:

 

 

I think NATO have got the message, here:

 

The Declaration welcomes the EU's efforts on security and defence, which are complementary and not an alternative to NATO. "We… need to ensure the fullest possible involvement of non-EU Allies in our cooperation and avoid creating new barriers," said Secretary General Stoltenberg, recalling that after Brexit, 80% of defence spending in NATO will come from non-EU Allies.

[Guided Missile]

You're right, ban voting.

Personally, I think private sector tax payers are the only citizens that should be allowed to chose the government that spends their money, or gives it away... Edited 10 July, 2018 by Guided Missile
The magic money tree is a socialist myth.

[buctootim]

Personally, I think private sector tax payers are the only citizens that should be allowed to chose the government that spends their money...

 

Personally I wouldn't allow any private sector recipients of EU and UK government subsidies to vote

Edited 10 July, 2018 by buctootim

[shurlock]

Personally I wouldn't allow any private sector recipients of EU and UK government subsidies to vote

 

[Cabbage_Face]

We should only allow the professionals to decide our fate. Like Diane Abbott or Boris. #mess

[Lord Duckhunter]

So then you are for a people's vote on the brexit deal, right? Rather than leaving it up to MPs.

 

Absolutely, we’ve had the vote that decided we leave let’s have one on how we leave.

 

Out with May’s Turd or out on WTO terms with a hard NI border.

 

Bring it on.

 

 

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[hypochondriac]

Personally I wouldn't allow any private sector recipients of EU and UK government subsidies to vote

Lol.

[benjii]

I'd go with that. The truth I think is the majority of the British public (I include myself in that) didn't really understand the complexities of the issues around Brexit. I firmly believe the majority where voting on an issue they didn't really understand.

 

It didn't help that the whole referendum debate was fought like a general election campaign full of half truths, scare mongering and populist slogans.

 

I think for an issue like this an independent body with no agenda should have just laid down a rhetoric free, unbiased version of the facts and possible outcomes to try and help people make an informed choice.

 

Personally from speaking to friends, family and work colleges I know people who would have or would now vote differently had they had a better understanding of what they where voting for.

 

This is why there should be an IQ threshold for voting.

[doddisalegend]

This is why there should be an IQ threshold for voting.

 

 

I know at least one guy at work who voted Leave to stop people from the Indian sub continent (he used a slightly more abusive term) from coming here..

 

In fairness it isn't all about IQ both sides of the debate where to busy scare mongering and telling half truths rather than delivering the facts to allow people to make an informed choice.

[Cabbage_Face]

I voted leave because I ate lots of crayons in that morning.

 

 

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[colehillsaint]

Personally, I think private sector tax payers are the only citizens that should be allowed to chose the government that spends their money, or gives it away...

 

You’re all propaganda and no wisdom. I’ve worked 4 years in local government, 18 years in the private sector, and 11 years running my family’s business, and you can’t pick out good people from any of these groups, over any other. In local government, I met some of the most dedicated people, through to a man who literally spent a good deal of his time playing with himself in the back of his council van. Judge people on how hard they work, and how keen they are to pay there bills.

[shurlock]

I voted leave because I ate lots of crayons in that morning.

 

 

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I’m just surprised you can even feed yourself eko.

[Guided Missile]

You’re all propaganda and no wisdom. I’ve worked 4 years in local government, 18 years in the private sector, and 11 years running my family’s business, and you can’t pick out good people from any of these groups, over any other. In local government, I met some of the most dedicated people, through to a man who literally spent a good deal of his time playing with himself in the back of his council van. Judge people on how hard they work, and how keen they are to pay there bills.

Woosh....

[Cabbage_Face]

I’m just surprised you can even feed yourself eko.

 

I’m fine thanks, Glasgow.

 

 

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[Portugalsaint]

What's your point and how does it relate specifically to the EU. None of your post, to the extent I can understand it, actually contradicts anything Verbal has said. Quite the opposite. You just appear to have the hump that Verbal is saying it. Bizarre.

 

So come on, then, take a deep breath and try again. Am all ears to the experiences and insights of an expat fat f**k who's probably sunning it up, living the life of Riley.

 

Do you know Sherlock you haven’t a clue of how anyone lives in the EU. You probably go on your one or two week getaway once a year to beer ridden areas of Europe and how the average lived, no idea.

 

By the way, I am not overweight due to eating in season veg and fruit not out of season tasteless ****e from Holland that hasn’t seen the sunshine. And, I work over here full time and do you know the average wage here in Portugal? 600 euros a month is what they are fighting for 600 could you live on that? Don’t use the excuse that life is cheaper here it doesn’t wash, cars here are the MOST expensive in Europe. Fuel is 3 cents a litre cheaper, electric most expensive in Europe. Trouble wi5 you people is you just do not have a clue about Europe not a f***ing clue.

[shurlock]

Do you know Sherlock you haven’t a clue of how anyone lives in the EU. You probably go on your one or two week getaway once a year to beer ridden areas of Europe and how the average lived, no idea.

 

By the way, I am not overweight due to eating in season veg and fruit not out of season tasteless ****e from Holland that hasn’t seen the sunshine. And, I work over here full time and do you know the average wage here in Portugal? 600 euros a month is what they are fighting for 600 could you live on that? Don’t use the excuse that life is cheaper here it doesn’t wash, cars here are the MOST expensive in Europe. Fuel is 3 cents a litre cheaper, electric most expensive in Europe. Trouble wi5 you people is you just do not have a clue about Europe not a f***ing clue.

 

 

Couldn’t be further from the truth pal.

[CB Fry]

What point is Portugal actually making?

[Portugalsaint]

LOL when did you last live in Europe?

[shurlock]

LOL when did you last live in Europe?

 

You didn’t ask me that, did you?

[whelk]

What point is Portugal actually making?

 

I think he is encouraging us to eat fruit and veg

[Cabbage_Face]

Always seems cheap when I’m over there playing golf.

 

 

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[Jonnyboy]

LOL when did you last live in Europe?

 

Isn't the UK in Europe?

[Portugalsaint]

On your wages from the UK yes. How many average Portuguese do you find playing golf? Top nurse 1000 euros per month auxiliary 550 per month. Cash economy, you can see why.

[saint1977]

Personally, I think private sector tax payers are the only citizens that should be allowed to chose the government that spends their money, or gives it away...

 

The referendum would have been 70/30 Remain if so, probably more in far of Remain. Very few bar SMEs and sole trades who are local scope only would have voted for economic suicide. Certainly if you export goods. Go and ask the international trade forums around the UK what they think (business led). I guess from your perspective you only need the local market.

 

I’m both private (consultancy - national and international) and independent sector - so would I get 0.5 of a vote? Perhaps 0.5 also for the hundreds of thousands, probably far more, for those employed where their companies have received significant public subsidies or R&D support to create products and skilled jobs?

 

As one of my favourite politicians Michael Heseltine said ‘my colleagues on the right were always vocal on how the world should work but had little understanding of how it actually does’.

[Portugalsaint]

All the remainders moaning, when did they last live abroad, particularly live and work in Southern Europe.

 

The UK is leaving, or will they?

[buctootim]

All the remainders moaning, when did they last live abroad, particularly live and work in Southern Europe.

 

The UK is leaving, or will they?

 

Why do you think your experience of one part of Portugal is any more typical of the EU than living in Shirley?

[Cabbage_Face]

On your wages from the UK yes. How many average Portuguese do you find playing golf? Top nurse 1000 euros per month auxiliary 550 per month. Cash economy, you can see why.

 

Maybe if Portugal sorted out the government corruption and bureaucracy it might be better off? Or maybe not. Who knows.

 

 

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[CB Fry]

All the remainders moaning, when did they last live abroad, particularly live and work in Southern Europe.

 

The UK is leaving, or will they?

Do you think all the people who passionately support Brexit are doing it because of a deep knowledge of, and clear empathy with, the impoverished populations of Southern Europe? Is that what you're saying?

[Batman]

Maybe if Portugal sorted out the government corruption and bureaucracy it might be better off? Or maybe not. Who knows.

 

 

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overtly selling drugs in the street must be a good number in Portugal..pretty rife

[whelk]

Portugal reminds me of the fella who used to post on the what’s wrong with America? thread. Forget his name but got banned i think. Gun nut

[Verbal]

All the remainders moaning, when did they last live abroad, particularly live and work in Southern Europe.

 

The UK is leaving, or will they?

 

I'd guess that many remoaning traitors on here have lived quite a bit in the abroad. I certainly have. But what's that got to do with anything? Have you got an actual point, rather than trying to argue, bizarrely, that by standing on point X you know more than the rest of us?

 

And if the UK is 'leaving' it's only route now is via a collapse of the political system (not completely unlikely) followed by a chaotic crashing out and economic chaos.

 

Or do you have an alternative plan in mind? If not, here's a suggestion: go through all the self-serving resignation letters pouring out of the Tory party in the last few days. There'll be an alternative plan in at least one of those, right?

[CB Fry]

Portugal reminds me of the fella who used to post on the what’s wrong with America? thread. Forget his name but got banned i think. Gun nut

That boy loved linking to knife crime news stories. Name escapes me though.

[buctootim]

That boy loved linking to knife crime news stories. Name escapes me though.

 

Lived in New Orleans according to him

[Cabbage_Face]

That boy loved linking to knife crime news stories. Name escapes me though.

 

Donald Trump?

 

 

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[whelk]

SarniaSaint

[Portugalsaint]

Why do you think your experience of one part of Portugal is any more typical of the EU than living in Shirley?

 

LOL clueless, lived in Algarve, Lisboa, Porto so not just Southampton all my life.

 

And yes, corruption is rife. EU gives massive amounts of money to go into the back pockets of some of the actually quite a lot of the presidents of their councils here. Ex PM In prison for legging it to France who sheltered him with his chauffeur driving millions in euros northwards hilarious. Still, the EU keep giving millions for back pockets, corruption all around, no wonder it’s a cash economy.

[buctootim]

LOL clueless, lived in Algarve, Lisboa, Porto so not just Southampton all my life.

 

And yes, corruption is rife. EU gives massive amounts of money to go into the back pockets of some of the actually quite a lot of the presidents of their councils here. Ex PM In prison for legging it to France who sheltered him with his chauffeur driving millions in euros northwards hilarious. Still, the EU keep giving millions for back pockets, corruption all around, no wonder it’s a cash economy.

 

So you've only lived in two countries. I've lived in four. Im sure other here have similar experiences. I repeat, why do you think your experience of living in a minor EU country makes you better informed?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

So you've only lived in two countries. I've lived in four. Im sure other here have similar experiences. I repeat, why do you think your experience of living in a minor EU country makes you better informed?

 

Cos he's got the country's name in his Username innit.

[Portugalsaint]

I'd guess that many remoaning traitors on here have lived quite a bit in the abroad. I certainly have. But what's that got to do with anything? Have you got an actual point, rather than trying to argue, bizarrely, that by standing on point X you know more than the rest of us?

 

And if the UK is 'leaving' it's only route now is via a collapse of the political system (not completely unlikely) followed by a chaotic crashing out and economic chaos.

 

 

Or do you have an alternative plan in mind? If not, here's a suggestion: go through all the self-serving resignation letters pouring out of the Tory party in the last few days. There'll be an alternative plan in at least one of those, right?

 

You have a point regarding the fact that I live outside of the Uk that I know more.

 

Others who have mentioned my being barred. Why, just because, I have a difference of opinion.

 

I have never lived in Shirley and actually last time I passed through on the bus back from the glorious Win over Bournemouth saw how downhill shirley high street had gone. The place looked dirty, littered and a shadow of its former self from the late 70’s with fairly decent shops, grocers and butchers. There used to be a very good jeweller Hammonds I think.

[Cabbage_Face]

This is the exact reason I voted leave.

 

 

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[hypochondriac]

You have a point regarding the fact that I live outside of the Uk that I know more.

 

Others who have mentioned my being barred. Why, just because, I have a difference of opinion.

 

I have never lived in Shirley and actually last time I passed through on the bus back from the glorious Win over Bournemouth saw how downhill shirley high street had gone. The place looked dirty, littered and a shadow of its former self from the late 70’s with fairly decent shops, grocers and butchers. There used to be a very good jeweller Hammonds I think.

Hammonds is still there.

[Guided Missile]

I have never lived in Shirley and actually last time I passed through on the bus back from the glorious Win over Bournemouth saw how downhill shirley high street had gone. The place looked dirty, littered and a shadow of its former self from the late 70’s with fairly decent shops, grocers and butchers.

Shirley is a sh !thole, as is Millbrook, Thornhill, Woolston and Sholing. As Britain, unlike Portugal, is a net contributor to the EU, the citizens of Shirley, Millbrook, Thornhill, Woolston and Sholing haven't seen the benefits of the EU, in terms of money and investment, unlike much of southern Europe. It is mainly for this reason that they and people like them across the country, voted to exit the EU, much to the surprise of the out of touch London political elite. They also expected that, having provided an answer to the question asked at the referendum, the political elite, would be able to work out a mechanism to get them the f*** out of the EU, with the minimum of damage. Apparently they were wrong. Now the political elite in London and the EU are treating them like idiots. They are making a BIG mistake.

[Portugalsaint]

Cos he's got the country's name in his Username innit.

 

 

Thank you for your opinion on Portugal being a minor EU country. Exactly the reason a lot of Portuguese would like to leave. They survived before and would survive again. Also, you obviously do not realise that Portugal are the UKs oldest ally. With the marriage of Catherine de Braganza and Charles 1 bringing great wealth to the UK through her dowry. So yes, minor now but still in existence even though there are pompous Brits who know better and sneer as you do INIT, how very multi culty.

 

I had no idea Hammonds still existed, when I was sat on the bus it was all shuttered up, even the signage could not be seen.

Edited 10 July, 2018 by Portugalsaint

[View From The Top]

Thank you for your opinion on Portugal being a minor EU country. Exactly the reason a lot of Portuguese would like to leave. They survived before and would survive again. Also, you obviously do not realise that Portugal are the UKs oldest ally. With the marriage of Catherine de Braganza and Charles 1 bringing great wealth to the UK through her dowry. So yes, minor now but still in existence even though there are pompous Brits who know better and sneer as you do INIT, how very multi culty.

 

I had no idea Hammonds still existed, when I was sat on the bus it was all shuttered up, even the signage could not be seen.

 

I rather like Portugal. An interesting country with a rich heritage and away from the southern coast, unspoiled by mass tourism.

[Portugalsaint]

Actually Guided, I thought that the majority of people in Shirley (cannot comment) for Eastern Southampton were Russians? That is people who live outside of The EU.

 

If they are outside of the EU or indeed EU citizens they were not allowed to vote in the referendum.

 

Romsey voted out.

[Portugalsaint]

I rather like Portugal. An interesting country with a rich heritage and away from the southern coast, unspoiled by mass tourism.

 

Thank you, where I live is about 40 years behind the rest of Portugal. It’s actually starting to be spoilt by the arrival of young Germans, Dutch, Italian and French who are fed of of living in their own countries overrun with migrants. They have come to try their hand at surf hostels and are therefore changing the area and not for the best.

[Plastic]

Shirley is a sh !thole, as is Millbrook, Thornhill, Woolston and Sholing.

 

Can’t argue with any of that