Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[Verbal]

You cant argue with die hard remainers Nolan, save your energy and just use the ignore function. A lot of them are sadly just sheep who do what they're told, don't question, and spend their lives campaigning for their invisible lords and masters with whatever fake news is available. Then they ignore or make the debate a mockery when facts that contradict the fake news are presented.

 

All as standard.

 

They are the wet dream of the left, a sea of people unable to think for themselves and who blindly follow what they're told.

 

I'd like to point out that my lords and masters are Bilderberg, while shurlock's are the Rothschilds. Different agendas, sunshine.

[View From The Top]

You cant argue with die hard remainers Nolan, save your energy and just use the ignore function. A lot of them are sadly just sheep who do what they're told, don't question, and spend their lives campaigning for their invisible lords and masters with whatever fake news is available. Then they ignore or make the debate a mockery when facts that contradict the fake news are presented.

 

All as standard.

 

They are the wet dream of the left, a sea of people unable to think for themselves and who blindly follow what they're told.

 

This is a parody account right?

[Guided Missile]

Put him on ignore.

He is on ignore, but doesn't seem to get rid of the smell. Must be when someone quotes him. Just can't scrape the sh!te off my loafers.

[badgerx16]

You cant argue with die hard remainers Nolan, save your energy and just use the ignore function. A lot of them are sadly just sheep who do what they're told, don't question, and spend their lives campaigning for their invisible lords and masters with whatever fake news is available. Then they ignore or make the debate a mockery when facts that contradict the fake news are presented.

 

All as standard.

 

They are the wet dream of the left, a sea of people unable to think for themselves and who blindly follow what they're told.

What a load of codswallop.

[whelk]

Put him on ignore.

 

 

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Fcking snowflakes

[CB Fry]

You cant argue with die hard remainers Nolan, save your energy and just use the ignore function. A lot of them are sadly just sheep who do what they're told, don't question, and spend their lives campaigning for their invisible lords and masters with whatever fake news is available. Then they ignore or make the debate a mockery when facts that contradict the fake news are presented.

 

All as standard.

 

They are the wet dream of the left, a sea of people unable to think for themselves and who blindly follow what they're told.

Post of the decade.

[Tamesaint]

I haven't read them, but am I the only person that thinks shurlock's posts are becoming more like someone crapping on your living room carpet, during a house party? He's the leper in my thread...

 

He talks more sense than you do in any of your posts. He defeats you again and again in arguments yet you are too bigoted to acknowledge it.

 

Come on ..man up and admit that you are out of your depth when you debate with him.

[shurlock]

Official numbers from the ONS show 1.8% last year.

 

Or do you contest the ONS?

 

So Nolan would you like to correct your post?

 

It would help, of course, if you used the latest ONS estimates which oddly enough, are available on the ONS website rather than some random site you furiously googled because of the desperate need to confirm a preconceived view rather than maintain an open mind and seek the truth. That’s how saps like you, saint86 and your other jihadist buddies get suckered into believing fake news.

Edited 29 June, 2018 by shurlock

[Portugalsaint]

Exactly. Although it’s not my pocket, it’s the shareholders who benefit. I’m just an employee who manages other employees.

 

I’ve posted many times that the 3 things that suppress the poorest wages are

1. Immigration

2. Working families tax credits

3. Minimum wage.

 

Immigration speaks for itself, it increases supply. Tax credits just subsidise employers and the minimum wage has become a benchmark rather than a floor. There’s absolutely no incentive to increase wages, and the minimum wage suppresses wage competition.

 

 

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You are absolutely right Duck. Since it’s introduction under Labour in 2005 WFTC has kept wages low. Immigration from Europe to low paid jobs increased as families arrived able to claim WFTC, Child credits, housing benefit and council tax benefit. Prior to this many people came to do the summer jobs on their own, leaving families in their own countries.

 

WFTC has only allowed big business to pay poorly and continue to do so. The coffee houses frequented by many are a proven sign of this. Revolting overpriced coffee served by poorly paid people.

 

At the moment in Portugal, they are facing problems of picking in the fields, sounds familiar? Portuguese are in the fields of Lincolnshire picking with their families living in accommodation over in the UK. Claiming benefits as they cannot afford to live without them. Meanwhile in Portugal, Asians are seen in the fields. No families, just single accom a la how it used to be in the UK. Interesting

[OldNick]

You are absolutely right Duck. Since it’s introduction under Labour in 2005 WFTC has kept wages low. Immigration from Europe to low paid jobs increased as families arrived able to claim WFTC, Child credits, housing benefit and council tax benefit. Prior to this many people came to do the summer jobs on their own, leaving families in their own countries.

 

WFTC has only allowed big business to pay poorly and continue to do so. The coffee houses frequented by many are a proven sign of this. Revolting overpriced coffee served by poorly paid people.

 

At the moment in Portugal, they are facing problems of picking in the fields, sounds familiar? Portuguese are in the fields of Lincolnshire picking with their families living in accommodation over in the UK. Claiming benefits as they cannot afford to live without them. Meanwhile in Portugal, Asians are seen in the fields. No families, just single accom a la how it used to be in the UK. Interesting

I assume in the end there will be no countries left to get cheap labour from. The way it is going we might have English going to Europe in the droves doing fruit picking

[Portugalsaint]

And why not Old Nick, we weren’t too posh years ago to pick fruit in the summer whilst on vacation from College/Uni. Where or when did it become an essential that the kids have to take a year out financed by parents to see the World, what happened to working your way around?

 

The other alternative of course is the “old farts” get in their motorhomes and do the vineyards of Europe picking in the day and tasting at night!

[John B]

Exactly. Although it’s not my pocket, it’s the shareholders who benefit. I’m just an employee who manages other employees.

 

I’ve posted many times that the 3 things that suppress the poorest wages are

1. Immigration

2. Working families tax credits

3. Minimum wage.

 

Immigration speaks for itself, it increases supply. Tax credits just subsidise employers and the minimum wage has become a benchmark rather than a floor. There’s absolutely no incentive to increase wages, and the minimum wage suppresses wage competition.

 

 

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The only thing that surpresses wages is the lack of Trade Unions

[Jonnyboy]

You are absolutely right Duck. Since it’s introduction under Labour in 2005 WFTC has kept wages low. Immigration from Europe to low paid jobs increased as families arrived able to claim WFTC, Child credits, housing benefit and council tax benefit. Prior to this many people came to do the summer jobs on their own, leaving families in their own countries.

 

WFTC has only allowed big business to pay poorly and continue to do so. The coffee houses frequented by many are a proven sign of this. Revolting overpriced coffee served by poorly paid people.

 

At the moment in Portugal, they are facing problems of picking in the fields, sounds familiar? Portuguese are in the fields of Lincolnshire picking with their families living in accommodation over in the UK. Claiming benefits as they cannot afford to live without them. Meanwhile in Portugal, Asians are seen in the fields. No families, just single accom a la how it used to be in the UK. Interesting

 

If the coffee is revolting and overpriced why do so many go there?

[badgerx16]

If Rees-Mogg keeps up his whinging he could split the Tories so badly that Labour might get into #10. I reckon that wasn't a post-Brexit outcome many Leavers were anticipating.

[Nolan]

If Rees-Mogg keeps up his whinging he could split the Tories so badly that Labour might get into #10. I reckon that wasn't a post-Brexit outcome many Leavers were anticipating.

Rees Mogg is simply advocating for what the prime minister has promised in her speeches.

[shurlock]

Rees Mogg is simply advocating for what the prime minister has promised in her speeches.

 

Morning Nolan. No correction then?

[moonraker]

Rees Mogg is simply advocating for what the prime minister has promised in her speeches.

 

No he is not, JRM warns a no deal, he is even in a minority in his party.

[Nolan]

No he is not, JRM warns a no deal, he is even in a minority in his party.

Rees Mogg wants a deal. He always has wanted a deal. He just does not want a deal at any cost.

 

I believe the phrase is similar to the Prime Ministers words "no deal is better than a bad deal"

[OldNick]

The politicians do not realise or care what they are doing to business confidence.

I predict we will see a swathe more retail shops go in the next 2-3 months . Small as well as large.

The general public just don't know whether to spend or not, and are sitting on their hands not making spending decisions.

I was out browsing the shops yesterday and whilst there were lots of people looking around, the tills were not ringing. While I was in a small quality shoe shop I heard the salesman tell his friend that they had only taken £100 and that without notice a couple of their other shops had closed without warning this week gone.

Rees Mogg etc and their own political ambition and agenda see no boundaries to get what they want.

We the tax payers and voters are anxious waiting for the UK to show a United front. While we have all these splinter groups who are pecking away we will see no progress.

I am a democrat and have to adhere to the vote but it was a nonsense that 2% or whatever it was as a margin was enough to win such a crucial decision.

I believe that there should be another vote and that to remain there would need to be a 10-20% margin for the result to be reversed.

Without a doubt the nation was in the main oblivious to the implications of voting out.

I know there are quite a few who still believe 100% that we will be ok, but I cant see how that can happen. We will never get fair trade deals with countries after we leave as they will see our weakness, eg India who say they will do a deal but we have to look at loosening our rules for their people to come to live in the UK.

[OldNick]

Rees Mogg wants a deal. He always has wanted a deal. He just does not want a deal at any cost.

 

I believe the phrase is similar to the Prime Ministers words "no deal is better than a bad deal"

that's fine,but talk about it behind closed doors,or in cabinet, not go out to the media outlets spreading his mantra to gain exposure to try and gain support if there is a vote for leadership.

[Batman]

of course it was very obvious at the time, it has now emerged that Obama's "back of the queue" comment (Americans tend not to say queue anyway) was said at the the request of David Cameron.

 

[Nolan]

that's fine,but talk about it behind closed doors,or in cabinet, not go out to the media outlets spreading his mantra to gain exposure to try and gain support if there is a vote for leadership.

Rees Mogg isn't interested in leadership.

 

Gove, Javid, Williamson, Mourdant are the ones looking at that.

[shurlock]

Rees Mogg wants a deal. He always has wanted a deal. He just does not want a deal at any cost.

 

I believe the phrase is similar to the Prime Ministers words "no deal is better than a bad deal"

 

In the real world (where coincidentally GDP grew by 1.7% in 2017), your swivel-eyed Jihadist brethren are doing everything they can to force a no-deal. Even the most tepid of proposals such as May's preference for a customs partnership have been scuppered by the jihadists.

 

Let's cut to the chase pal: your definition of a deal remains, as it did on day one, the disingenuous cake-and-eat-it type which has no chance of being accepted and is tantamount to no deal.

Edited 2 July, 2018 by shurlock

[buctootim]

[Verbal]

Rees Mogg wants a deal. He always has wanted a deal. He just does not want a deal at any cost.

 

I believe the phrase is similar to the Prime Ministers words "no deal is better than a bad deal"

 

What Rees-Mogg wants is a no deal deal. His combination of 'red lines' and 'frictionless trade' isn't in conflict with May. It's in conflict with reality - specifically international law governing trade. Quite simply the WTO doesn't allow it.

 

On which subject - congratulations to all (like me) who've predicted Norway+ (CU) as the outcome. Seems Oliver Robbins has introduced the May cabinet to that selfsame reality. (see the lead in today's Times).

[Lord Duckhunter]

Rees Mogg wants a deal. He always has wanted a deal. He just does not want a deal at any cost.

 

I believe the phrase is similar to the Prime Ministers words "no deal is better than a bad deal"

 

He just wants May to stick to her Mansion house speech and implement Tory manifesto pledges. It is a strange world when people claim that it’s extreme or bullying to demand that the PM sticks to her word, and also sticks to the manifesto on which her MP’s were elected.

 

 

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[Cabbage_Face]

Lets face it, we aint leaving. No way.

[Wade Garrett]

The politicians do not realise or care what they are doing to business confidence.

I predict we will see a swathe more retail shops go in the next 2-3 months . Small as well as large.

The general public just don't know whether to spend or not, and are sitting on their hands not making spending decisions.

I was out browsing the shops yesterday and whilst there were lots of people looking around, the tills were not ringing. While I was in a small quality shoe shop I heard the salesman tell his friend that they had only taken £100 and that without notice a couple of their other shops had closed without warning this week gone.

Rees Mogg etc and their own political ambition and agenda see no boundaries to get what they want.

We the tax payers and voters are anxious waiting for the UK to show a United front. While we have all these splinter groups who are pecking away we will see no progress.

I am a democrat and have to adhere to the vote but it was a nonsense that 2% or whatever it was as a margin was enough to win such a crucial decision.

I believe that there should be another vote and that to remain there would need to be a 10-20% margin for the result to be reversed.

Without a doubt the nation was in the main oblivious to the implications of voting out.

I know there are quite a few who still believe 100% that we will be ok, but I cant see how that can happen. We will never get fair trade deals with countries after we leave as they will see our weakness, eg India who say they will do a deal but we have to look at loosening our rules for their people to come to live in the UK.

 

Laughable.

[Verbal]

Lets face it, we aint leaving. No way.

 

That can't be true. If it happened we'd unleash the Cake Jihad.

[Johnny Bognor]

 

 

 

So this chart is showing that non EU countries are generally performing better than EU ones??? Who'd have thought it eh????

[buctootim]

So this chart is showing that non EU countries are generally performing better than EU ones??? Who'd have thought it eh????

 

No it shows countries with growing populations are growing faster than those with static populations. Except Britain which has fallen from being growth leader to laggard in OECD, G7 and EU. Doh.

[Nolan]

EU are still relying on QE to help their growth though...

[CB Fry]

of course it was very obvious at the time, it has now emerged that Obama's "back of the queue" comment (Americans tend not to say queue anyway) was said at the the request of David Cameron.

 

It hasn't just emerged, it was in Tim Shipman's (excellent) book on Brexit which was out around Christmas time last year.

[Lord Duckhunter]

It hasn't just emerged, it was in Tim Shipman's (excellent) book on Brexit which was out around Christmas time last year.

 

To be fair I think most people worked it out the minute he said it.

 

 

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[Guided Missile]

The politicians do not realise or care what they are doing to business confidence.

I predict we will see a swathe more retail shops go in the next 2-3 months . Small as well as large.

You realise that what you are seeing, when you take your mobility scooter into town, is the effect of amazon dot effing com, not the EU? Jeez...

[Guided Missile]

So, what we have in the current reality is the Germans printing money so that other countries can afford to buy their goods. When I was younger, you only saw BMW's and Mercedes in rich countries. Now they even have them in Ireland. There's a tax dodging economic riddle. From potatoes to dot com in no time (and no tax). Please, can someone tell me what the Irish make? Seriously....how does that economy work?

[badgerx16]

Please, can someone tell me what the Irish make?

It seems they make xenophobes reveal their true colours.

[Plastic]

So, what we have in the current reality is the Germans printing money so that other countries can afford to buy their goods. When I was younger, you only saw BMW's and Mercedes in rich countries. Now they even have them in Ireland. There's a tax dodging economic riddle. From potatoes to dot com in no time (and no tax). Please, can someone tell me what the Irish make? Seriously....how does that economy work?

 

Pretty much all top-tier vendor IT support is run out of Ireland. Apple, Microsoft, VMware, Dell etc. all have large footprints there.

 

http://www.top1000.ie/companies

[Guided Missile]

Pretty much all top-tier vendor IT support is run out of Ireland. Apple, Microsoft, VMware, Dell etc. all have large footprints there.

Ireland, where US corporate tax dodgers are welcome. Without them and the EU money the Irish used to get, the economy will revert to growing potatoes. No wonder they don't want the UK to leave. They will have to pay more into the EU....

[shurlock]

EU are still relying on QE to help their growth though...

 

Because the BoE hasn’t engaged in any QE? It continues to roll over maturing gilts and reinvest principal payments - never mind the money it pumped into the economy in the wake of the Brexit vote.

 

Also remember ECB has been playing catch-up, having started QE much later than any other major central bank. I don’t remember you qualifying the UK’s economic performance in the same way when it was growing on the back of loose monetary policy. But then again you’re a hypocrite who is incapable of admitting even basic factual errors.

 

Furthermore don’t forget UK has benefited from QE in the Eurozone - demand on the continent has been a major boost for UK -indeed global exports. How much more feeble would UK growth have been in the absence of the recent European recovery?

 

Finally it’s easy to miss the bigger story. Rising debt is a problem around the world. But if you want to single out any country or area’s credit binge, perhaps look at China: between 2007 and 2015, it was responsible for nearly 65% of all new money created globally, dwarfing the combined efforts of US, Japan and the Eurozone. Read Dinny McMahon’s China’s Great Wall of Debt. It may challenge the fevered fantasies of Global Britain but it’s an eye-opener for the rest of us, putting businesses like Lander in perspective.

[Verbal]

So, what we have in the current reality is the Germans printing money so that other countries can afford to buy their goods. When I was younger, you only saw BMW's and Mercedes in rich countries. Now they even have them in Ireland. There's a tax dodging economic riddle. From potatoes to dot com in no time (and no tax). Please, can someone tell me what the Irish make? Seriously....how does that economy work?

 

It's funny how Brexit Jihadists deny so vehemently that they're ugly xenophobes, while actually being ugly xenophobes.

 

Are you too stupid to have a debate about the EU without resorting to the some of the hoariest of anti-Irish stereotypes?

[hypochondriac]

It's funny how Brexit Jihadists deny so vehemently that they're ugly xenophobes, while actually being ugly xenophobes.

 

Are you too stupid to have a debate about the EU without resorting to the some of the hoariest of anti-Irish stereotypes?

Tbf it's not like you've set a good tone for any 'debate' with your constant use of jihadists and comparisons between those who voted to leave and terrorist organisations.

[buctootim]

Ireland, where US corporate tax dodgers are welcome. Without them and the EU money the Irish used to get, the economy will revert to growing potatoes. No wonder they don't want the UK to leave. They will have to pay more into the EU....

 

You're such an ignorant tw at. The tw at part you can't change but ignorance is fixable if you read occasionally. FWI Ireland has twice as much industry as a share of GDP as Britain (38% compared with 19% UK)

 

Ireland GDP - composition, by sector of origin:

agriculture: 1%

industry: 38.2%

services: 60.7% (2017 est.)

 

Industries:

pharmaceuticals, chemicals, computer hardware and software, food products, beverages and brewing; medical devices

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ei.html

Edited 3 July, 2018 by buctootim

[benjii]

You're such an ignorant tw at. The tw at part you can't change but ignorance is fixable if you read occasionally. FWI Ireland has twice as much industry as a share of GDP as Britain (38% compared with 19% UK)

 

Ireland GDP - composition, by sector of origin:

agriculture: 1%

industry: 38.2%

services: 60.7% (2017 est.)

 

Industries:

pharmaceuticals, chemicals, computer hardware and software, food products, beverages and brewing; medical devices

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ei.html

 

In fairness, he did say their economy was propped up by US corporate tax dodgers and in the case of "computer hardware and software" that is certainly the case.

[van Hanegem]

Typical...

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/strasbourg-european-parliament-meps-reject-scrutiny-of-expenses/

[buctootim]

In fairness, he did say their economy was propped up by US corporate tax dodgers and in the case of "computer hardware and software" that is certainly the case.

 

I know, there is an issue with global companies repatriating profits to the countries with the lowest corporation tax regimes. But even if you take away IT Ireland still has more industry per capita than the UK. The potatoes comment just marks him as a bellend, as if it wasn't already clear. Smurfitt Kappa, CRH, Kerry, Kingspan, Ryanair, Guinness etc isnt a bad portfolio of companies / products for a country of 4 million.

Edited 3 July, 2018 by buctootim

[Guided Missile]

You're such an ignorant ****. The **** part you can't change but ignorance is fixable if you read occasionally. FWI Ireland has twice as much industry as a share of GDP than Britain (38% compared with 19% UK)

Oh, look, Mr. * has done a google search and come up with the fact that Ireland has twice as much industry as a share of GDP as Britain.

 

The * insults don't bother me in the slightest, but your post shows the danger of letting a half wit have internet access. I'll provide you with a search term you can use when trying to get your little mind round the Irish economy.

 

"Leprechaun economics"

Leprechaun economics was a term coined by Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman in a tweet on 12 July 2016 in response to the publication by the Irish Central Statistics Office (CSO) that Irish GDP had grown by 26.3%, and Irish GNP had grown by 18.7%, in the 2015 Irish national accounts.

Leprechaun economics: Ireland reports 26 percent growth! But it doesn't make sense. Why are these in GDP?

 

— Paul Krugman twitter page, 12 July 2016

 

and

 

At this point, multinational profit shifting doesn't just distort Ireland’s balance of payments; it constitutes Ireland’s balance of payments.

 

— Brad Setser and Cole Frank, Council on Foreign Relations, "Tax Avoidance and the Irish Balance of Payments", 25 April 2018

 

Still, I'm willing to be educated by the genius like you on the details of the Irish economic miracle, since they were last bailed out by the British government, when it lent Ireland £3.2bn in 2010, with final repayment due in March 2021. Ireland has now paid £358 million (€428 million) in interest to the UK on a crisis loan it gave to the State in 2010.

 

While you're at it, explain the Irish economic growth to Paul Krugman, at the same time. He doesn't get it, either...

 

Ireland, the land of tax dodging US corporations, screwing the US treasury out of billions and paying off the Irish government. When Brexit happens and Trump goes after them, they'll be coming back to Britain with the begging bowl again. No wonder they don't want Brexit to happen...

[Guided Missile]

Actually, I'll have a go at the Irish economic riddle. Apple sets up a company in Ireland to take advantage of the low (let's say 0-3% in Apple's case) corporation tax. They have iphones made in China for, let's say, £150. They sell them in Europe for £650 through the Irish company and book the profit in Dublin and the selling price adds to the Irish GDP. Apple then saves on the pesky US corporation tax of 21%, pays the Irish the square root of eff all in tax and the job's a good 'un. I'll let you guess how many Apple stores there are in Ireland.

 

Maybe the EU don't give a sh! t about the tax haven that Ireland is, because the Irish has enough money now to pay the EU off in budget contributions. It's the least they can do. Their status upsets a few countries, though. Brazil have the Irish worked out and despite an effort to be removed from Brazil's blacklist in a St. Patricks day visit in May, they still rank up there with Panama, as reported recently in the Times:

 

Ireland tried unsuccessfully to use a St Patrick’s Day trip to Brazil to lobby for removal from a list of nations classed as tax havens.

 

Brazil’s federal revenue service added Ireland in 2016 to its register of tax havens, which includes jurisdictions such as Panama, Monaco and the Isle of Man. The move had a significant impact on many businesses because companies based in Ireland now have to pay a 25 per cent tax rate on deals with businesses from Brazil instead of the 15 per cent that previously applied.

 

Still, as long as the EU Parliament doesn't believe Ireland is a tax haven, I doubt there is too much concern in Dublin:

 

Malta, the Netherlands, Luxembourg and Ireland cannot be considered as tax havens, the European Parliament agreed on Wednesday (13 December, 2017), despite a Socialist group amendment listing the four EU member states specifically by name and was part of 211 recommendations contained in a report by a special inquiry committee into money laundering, tax avoidance and evasion, the PANA committee.

 

I'm constantly surprised that the lefties on here are so in thrall of the EU. I'd have thought they'd be the first to be up in arms regarding the EU vote above.

[buctootim]

Oh, look, Mr. * has done a google search and come up with the fact that Ireland has twice as much industry as a share of GDP as Britain.

 

The * insults don't bother me in the slightest, but your post shows the danger of letting a half wit have internet access. I'll provide you with a search term you can use when trying to get your little mind round the Irish economy.

 

"Leprechaun economics"

 

 

and

 

 

 

Still, I'm willing to be educated by the genius like you on the details of the Irish economic miracle, since they were last bailed out by the British government, when it lent Ireland £3.2bn in 2010, with final repayment due in March 2021. Ireland has now paid £358 million (€428 million) in interest to the UK on a crisis loan it gave to the State in 2010.

 

While you're at it, explain the Irish economic growth to Paul Krugman, at the same time. He doesn't get it, either...

 

Ireland, the land of tax dodging US corporations, screwing the US treasury out of billions and paying off the Irish government. When Brexit happens and Trump goes after them, they'll be coming back to Britain with the begging bowl again. No wonder they don't want Brexit to happen...

 

Lulz. Your primary problem is that you aren't bright enough to really understand the articles you cite as evidence. That article is about accounting conventions and tax avoidance distorting Irelands GDP figures. That is very different to saying Ireland has no real industry or that it is less than the UK.

 

If you were able to interpret this table from that article you'd realise that it actually confirms Ireland's real industrial economy is growing even after taking out the distortions.

 

Edited 3 July, 2018 by buctootim

[Lord Duckhunter]

Fair play to the Irish, if their tax rates encourage business to base themselves there, what’s wrong with that? We should be doing exactly the same thing. Although I can’t help thinking the lefties defending the Irish, would be up in arms if we did so.

 

 

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