Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[Weston Super Saint]

'Flat out lie' would be a better way of putting it. Forty-seven of the world's poorest countries, including thirty-three in sub-Saharan Africa, have tariff-free entry into the EU for everything except guns. Yet Brexit Jihadists keep up their volume of noise on the idea that somehow the EU is a vast conspiracy against poorer countries.

 

 

I know you get all hard about your statistics, so tell us, how much do those 47 of the world's poorest countries actually export in to the EU?

 

I have absolutely no idea, but would hazard a guess that the combined exports of all 47 don't even amount to 1% of the EU economy....

[shurlock]

https://www.ft.com/content/c92f7ea6-67f4-11e8-8cf3-0c230fa67aec

 

Easiest trade deal in history. FACT.

[Verbal]

A bedtime story for those who can't get enough kip.

 

https://twitter.com/Alistair_King/status/1003735659390160896

[buctootim]

Or this one. British cars wont qualify for free trade deals

https://news.sky.com/story/government-warned-british-cars-will-not-qualify-for-future-trade-deals-post-brexit-11396219

[OldNick]

Or this one. British cars wont qualify for free trade deals

https://news.sky.com/story/government-warned-british-cars-will-not-qualify-for-future-trade-deals-post-brexit-11396219

we are so integrated it is impossible really to unpick all this. The Brexit people talked bout saving £350PW but it will make our eyes water how much the consultants, lawyers, extra civil servants (with all the add ons that will bring eg pensions) etc will be earning from this absolute madness

[buctootim]

The two principal Brexit cheerleading rags might be about to volte face. The Daily Mail have just appointed Geordie Greig, a remainer, as its Editor -probably reversing the stance taken by the execrable Paul Dacre. The Daily Express has recently been bought by the EU leaning Mirror group. It will be even more fun on their comments section.

Edited 7 June, 2018 by buctootim

[shurlock]

[Verbal]

 

Intelligent Brexiteers - so no one on here - have long recognised that Davis is a kind of remoaner stealth weapon. He's so useless that he's bound to **** it all up - so much so that you have to wonder if he's doing it deliberately. I was delighted that May caved and Davis didn't walk. Long may the weekend SASer keep firing those bullets into his own feet.

[buctootim]

Sections of the UK car industry face extinction unless the UK stays in the EU customs union, the president of the CBI has said. Paul Dreschler also said there was "zero evidence" that trade deals outside the EU would provide any economic benefit to Britain.

He blamed a "tidal wave of ideology" for the government's Brexit approach.

 

Who'd have thought...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44462829

[Batman]

Sections of the UK car industry face extinction unless the UK stays in the EU customs union, the president of the CBI has said. Paul Dreschler also said there was "zero evidence" that trade deals outside the EU would provide any economic benefit to Britain.

He blamed a "tidal wave of ideology" for the government's Brexit approach.

 

Who'd have thought...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44462829

 

Next thing you’ll tell us that the U.K. economy will crash if we vote to leave......

 

Oh!

[buctootim]

Next thing you’ll tell us that the U.K. economy will crash if we vote to leave......

 

Oh!

 

Doh. Slowest economic growth in the EU, the G7 and the OECD. Real wages still stagnating

[Batman]

Doh. Slowest economic growth in the EU, the G7 and the OECD. Real wages still stagnating

 

Which is a universe away from what we were told would definatrly happen.

 

Damn those experts

[Verbal]

Which is a universe away from what we were told would definatrly happen.

 

Damn those experts

 

No, it's not you plongeur. It's worse than was predicted by project fear.

[View From The Top]

No, it's not you plongeur. It's worse than was predicted by project fear.

 

It appears that death my a thousand cuts passes some by as they were expecting the sudden drop of the hangman's trapdoor.

[shurlock]

Which is a universe away from what we were told would definatrly happen.

 

Damn those experts

 

Jamie its OK to admit you got it shockingly wrong. We're all pals on here.

[Batman]

Jamie its OK to admit you got it shockingly wrong. We're all pals on here.

 

must have missed the 500,000-800,000 unemployed zombies wandering around, house prices crashing and such like.

[ericb]

must have missed the 500,000-800,000 unemployed zombies wandering around, house prices crashing and such like.

 

House prices are dropping fairly steadily which given we haven't left yet is a worry, London (the canary in the coal mine) saw the first slow down to flats this month and houses above a certain amount have fallen.

 

As for job loses well Land Rover are moving to Slovakia and multiple companies have shut down or are planning on moving, in my industry this year is the first year where wages for graduates has dropped from the year before and most of retail is scaling back or making redundancies (house of fraser the most recent, but tesco's and debenhams not far behind and the current figure is around the 65,000 mark across the retail market since the vote). Then also take into account airbus, honda, nissan, the impact on fishing and agriculture and the rehoming of large sections banking, in particular at JP Morgan who've downgraded their figures from ~10k to ~4,500 job loses in the next 2 years and i'd say that a lot of the warnings are coming true, albeit slowly.

 

And this is all BEFORE Brexit has happened.

 

For what it's worth too i actually want Brexit to be a success, we're going ahead with it now and the idea of it being a failure is not something i want for this country as it'd mean a huge amount of pain and suffering for those that can least afford it, the elites that imposed it on us to avoid paying taxes will escape scot free if it's a failure, the normal people that were lied to are the ones that will bear the brunt.

[SW5 SAINT]

must have missed the 500,000-800,000 unemployed zombies wandering around, house prices crashing and such like.

 

House prices are crashing, down about 25% in central London. So you can expect the rest of the UK to follow........

[Tamesaint]

House prices are dropping fairly steadily which given we haven't left yet is a worry, London (the canary in the coal mine) saw the first slow down to flats this month and houses above a certain amount have fallen.

 

As for job loses well Land Rover are moving to Slovakia and multiple companies have shut down or are planning on moving, in my industry this year is the first year where wages for graduates has dropped from the year before and most of retail is scaling back or making redundancies (house of fraser the most recent, but tesco's and debenhams not far behind and the current figure is around the 65,000 mark across the retail market since the vote). Then also take into account airbus, honda, nissan, the impact on fishing and agriculture and the rehoming of large sections banking, in particular at JP Morgan who've downgraded their figures from ~10k to ~4,500 job loses in the next 2 years and i'd say that a lot of the warnings are coming true, albeit slowly.

 

And this is all BEFORE Brexit has happened.

 

For what it's worth too i actually want Brexit to be a success, we're going ahead with it now and the idea of it being a failure is not something i want for this country as it'd mean a huge amount of pain and suffering for those that can least afford it, the elites that imposed it on us to avoid paying taxes will escape scot free if it's a failure, the normal people that were lied to are the ones that will bear the brunt.

 

The last paragraph here is unfortunately oh so true. Today Rees Mogg's investment firm has warned clients about the financial consequences of Brexit on the British economy. Funny that they believe in "Project Fear". The chairman if Vote Leave Nigel Lawson, is taking out French residency. He wants Need it but he doesn't want to actually live in Britaun. It is all right for everyone else to suffer it but not him!!

 

Oh well. At least Brexit means that "We got our country back".

[shurlock]

The last paragraph here is unfortunately oh so true. Today Rees Mogg's investment firm has warned clients about the financial consequences of Brexit on the British economy. Funny that they believe in "Project Fear". The chairman if Vote Leave Nigel Lawson, is taking out French residency. He wants Need it but he doesn't want to actually live in Britaun. It is all right for everyone else to suffer it but not him!!

 

Oh well. At least Brexit means that "We got our country back".

 

Just so we could take orders from global markets and international standard-setting bodies instead. The jihadists still don't understand the difference between the form and substance of sovereignty.

 

In forgotten news this week which includes a slump in British manufacturing, the UK is looking to apply to stay in the European standards system after Brexit.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/94ef2bb0-6b31-11e8-b6eb-4acfcfb08c11

https://www.ft.com/content/d76f495c-6d52-11e8-852d-d8b934ff5ffa

Edited 14 June, 2018 by shurlock

[Guided Missile]

House prices are dropping fairly steadily which given we haven't left yet is a worry, London (the canary in the coal mine) saw the first slow down to flats this month and houses above a certain amount have fallen.

 

As for job loses well Land Rover are moving to Slovakia and multiple companies have shut down or are planning on moving, in my industry this year is the first year where wages for graduates has dropped from the year before and most of retail is scaling back or making redundancies (house of fraser the most recent, but tesco's and debenhams not far behind and the current figure is around the 65,000 mark across the retail market since the vote). Then also take into account airbus, honda, nissan, the impact on fishing and agriculture and the rehoming of large sections banking, in particular at JP Morgan who've downgraded their figures from ~10k to ~4,500 job loses in the next 2 years and i'd say that a lot of the warnings are coming true, albeit slowly.

If there was ever a definition of correlation not implying causation, this post is it. Pick one, any one of the events above and prove that it is directly caused by the prospect of the UK exiting the EU and I will start supporting Pompey. I could argue that because today the ECB has cut its forecast for economic growth in the eurozone this year from 2.4% to 2.1%, while also raising its inflation forecast from 1.4% to 1.7% due to Brexit, but that is also total pony.

 

Still, I must admit, I like the look of this image of the pound against the euro:

 

[Guided Missile]

The FTSE's in the sh! tter since the Brexit vote too :

 

 

Cue the usual stalking trolls on ignore posting bo££ox, below:

[buctootim]

1.28 euros to the £ on referendum day. 1.14 now. Stellar

Edited 14 June, 2018 by buctootim

[badgerx16]

The FTSE's in the sh! tter since the Brexit vote too :

 

 

Cue the usual stalking trolls on ignore posting bo££ox, below:

2 items from the BBC earlier this week;

"Pound falls on weak economic figures" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44438838

"Economic growth struggles as manufacturing dips" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44438839

[Cabbage_Face]

Interestingly the sector I work in has felt the effects of Brexit, BSH Group (Gaggenau, Siemens, Bosch and Neff) had 3 price increase last year. I’m still not convinced we will leave, basically the whole thing is a naive cluster politician ****.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shurlock]

Jihadi John showing he’s not just a scumbag but is thick as mince.

 

Odd doctoring of data to present £/€ figures from June 2017 when the referendum was a year earlier. Equally odd to present the FTSE 100 when it’s been helped by the decline of the pound and a dovish BoE that’s been reluctant to raise rates and exacerbate Brexit uncertainty yet is still down relative to every other major index.

[Tamesaint]

Jihadi John showing he’s not just a scumbag but is thick as mince.

 

Odd doctoring of data to present £/€ figures from June 2017 when the referendum was a year earlier. Equally odd to present the FTSE 100 when it’s been helped by the decline of the pound and a dovish BoE that’s been reluctant to raise rates and exacerbate Brexit uncertainty yet is still down relative to every other major index.

 

It is unbelievable how he presents information that weakens his case yet he believes that it strengthens it .

[Guided Missile]

It is unbelievable how he presents information that weakens his case yet he believes that it strengthens it .

What exactly do you think my case is and how has it been weakened? I am simply making the point that the data regarding the euro has been on a downward trend against the pound since last September. I would say that is due to a number of factors, none of which have anything to do with Brexit. As far as this "thick scumbag" as your delightful pal calls me (Don't quote him, please. It only encourages him) believes, it is more due to an Italian former banker who has stated that the ECB will stop printing money to support the doomed currency that is the euro and an Italian government that has suggested they will be printing money/bonds to support their failed state. Interest rates, trade tariffs and corporate results are driving market sentiment in the global economy, not a Brexit that hasn't happened yet. My case is simple. Brexit offers the UK the chance to go our own way, print our own money, raise interest rates, set trade tariffs and more importantly, honour the democratic will of the UK electorate.

Still, keep listening to your bitcoin investing, currency trading pal for good advice. It is apparent by his insults that his money making schemes aren't going too well:

 

Smart money's been recently betting against the pound vs. Euro. Good July for that trade. Keep up Trident

 

Thank God he's on ignore. Smart money

Edited 15 June, 2018 by Guided Missile

[shurlock]

F**k me, JJ, you're a mess.

 

Can you actually read a graph or even the sh*te you post? Look at the char you posted- what was the pound doing against the euro at the time I posted (August 2 2017)? Yes falling very sharply - quids in for the smart money

 

By now you do realise trades open and close all the time?

 

I'm beginning to regret my career choice - I wish I had studied chemistry and gone into agribusiness. Would have made a killing at the expense of six-fingered fools like you.

Edited 15 June, 2018 by shurlock

[saint si]

My case is simple. Brexit offers the UK the chance to go our own way, print our own money, raise interest rates, set trade tariffs and more importantly, honour the democratic will of the UK electorate.

 

"go our own way" -> meaningless nothing

"print our own money" -> already can and do

"raise interest rates" -> yep, this too

"set trade tariffs" -> you what? you want to have less trade?

"honour the democratic will of the blah blah" -> circular argument, not a pro-brexit argument

 

Yep, simple is the word.

[shurlock]

"go our own way" -> meaningless nothing

"print our own money" -> already can and do

"raise interest rates" -> yep, this too

"set trade tariffs" -> you what? you want to have less trade?

"honour the democratic will of the blah blah" -> circular argument, not a pro-brexit argument

 

Yep, simple is the word.

 

[colehillsaint]

"go our own way" -> meaningless nothing

"print our own money" -> already can and do

"raise interest rates" -> yep, this too

"set trade tariffs" -> you what? you want to have less trade?

"honour the democratic will of the blah blah" -> circular argument, not a pro-brexit argument

 

Yep, simple is the word.

 

Exactly. He must be being ironic? Surely? It is actually the power to write our own regs on the standard thickness of bin liners, and redirect our immigration to come from other places apart from Europe. Ffs. The funny thing is, the quicker we get out and all these people have to stop blaming the EU for everything the better actually. ?*♂️

[Guided Missile]

"go our own way" -> meaningless nothing

"print our own money" -> already can and do

"raise interest rates" -> yep, this too

"set trade tariffs" -> you what? you want to have less trade?

"honour the democratic will of the blah blah" -> circular argument, not a pro-brexit argument

 

Yep, simple is the word.

Have you ever submitted a post on this site that you regret? I must admit, that was a dumb-ass post and not my finest...sorry about that.

[buctootim]

Have you ever submitted a post on this site that you regret? I must admit, that was a dumb-ass post and not my finest...sorry about that.

 

That post at least I have respect for.

[Jonnyboy]

Have you ever submitted a post on this site that you regret? I must admit, that was a dumb-ass post and not my finest...sorry about that.

 

Started early on a Friday afternoon.

[Tamesaint]

What exactly do you think my case is and how has it been weakened? I am simply making the point that the data regarding the euro has been on a downward trend against the pound since last September. I would say that is due to a number of factors, none of which have anything to do with Brexit. As far as this "thick scumbag" as your delightful pal calls me (Don't quote him, please. It only encourages him) believes, it is more due to an Italian former banker who has stated that the ECB will stop printing money to support the doomed currency that is the euro and an Italian government that has suggested they will be printing money/bonds to support their failed state. Interest rates, trade tariffs and corporate results are driving market sentiment in the global economy, not a Brexit that hasn't happened yet. My case is simple. Brexit offers the UK the chance to go our own way, print our own money, raise interest rates, set trade tariffs and more importantly, honour the democratic will of the UK electorate.

Still, keep listening to your bitcoin investing, currency trading pal for good advice. It is apparent by his insults that his money making schemes aren't going too well:

 

 

 

Thank God he's on ignore. Smart money

 

I am not sure whether in the light of your subsequent posts you still stand by this post but you ask me what I believe your case to be.

 

Over many months you seem to post graphs which you believe show that Britain is booming. That is how I interpreted your most recent posts. The stock market is apparently doing well and the currency is strong in your eyes.

 

Sherlock and other posters ( it seems that you do not like criticism so you have them on ignore ) have pointed out that the world economy generally is booming . Other stock markets are growing and international comparisons show that the Ftse is lagging its international rivals. Your posts seem to ignore this international dimension - perhaps because it destroys your argument.

 

Similarly none of your currency graphs seem to show the depreciation in sterling following the Brexit vote. The Euro is doomed in your eyes yet it is 30% stronger aginst the pound than it was 10 / 15 years ago and more than 10% stronger than it was before the Brexit vote. None of your graphs on currency ever seen to show this decline in sterling. They do not start before June 2016.

 

Do you travel abroad? Have you tried recently to buy a coffee in Berlin or a meal in America? If you have you would appreciate the poor value of sterling. The Brexit vote seriously weakened sterling and has done so for over 2 years - yet you seem not to acknowledge this.

 

Daily Express readers like highly partisan , selective "facts" but we are not all like them. Why not take people who you disagree with off ignore? You may not like their arguments but it will make you a more rounded individual.

 

In short you have a habit of planning down graphs and one sided data which mislead and you expect people to believe. We are not all Daily Express readers on here !

[Portugalsaint]

Try living in one of them! Inamongst the poorer EU countries.......you like others just don’t get it

[shurlock]

Try living in one of them! Inamongst the poorer EU countries.......you like others just don’t get it

 

What's your point pal?

[Verbal]

Try living in one of them! Inamongst the poorer EU countries.......you like others just don’t get it

 

Ah yes, the fabulous wealth of pre-EU Portugal. I remember it well.

[Guided Missile]

One more reason to be glad we're leaving the EU, in today's Times:

 

Britain could be liable for a €54 million bill to redesign a Brussels building housing a debating chamber for MEPs.The €420 million rebuild of the property, which is only 25 years old, will include improvements to catering services and facilities to avoid bumping into the public. The decision to rebuild the structure will be postponed until after next year’s European elections to avoid criticism of the parliament amid declining voter interest in the EU assembly.

 

...and a dead canary in the EU coal mine from the same edition:

 

President Macron threw his weight behind Italy’s vision of “fortress Europe” yesterday by backing moves to stop economic migrants crossing the Mediterranean and deport those who do. In the latest sign that attitudes are hardening across the continent, he sought to woo Italy’s new populist government with the promise of a Europe-wide crackdown on the illegal immigrants he said formed the vast majority of those arriving from Africa. His words appear to leave Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, more isolated than ever in her attempt to keep open the door to Europe.

 

...ooh, look, another dead canary:

 

Angela Merkel’s three-party coalition is at risk of collapse in the next 48 hours after her Bavarian allies refused to back down over threats to impose border controls on asylum seekers. Neither side in the stand-off between the German chancellor and her interior minister, Horst Seehofer, were in a mood to compromise as an opinion poll for the broadcaster ARD indicated that 62 per cent of Germans backed his tougher approach.

[Guided Missile]

I am not sure whether in the light of your subsequent posts you still stand by this post but you ask me what I believe your case to be.

 

Over many months you seem to post graphs which you believe show that Britain is booming. That is how I interpreted your most recent posts. The stock market is apparently doing well and the currency is strong in your eyes.

 

Sherlock and other posters ( it seems that you do not like criticism so you have them on ignore ) have pointed out that the world economy generally is booming . Other stock markets are growing and international comparisons show that the Ftse is lagging its international rivals. Your posts seem to ignore this international dimension - perhaps because it destroys your argument.

 

Similarly none of your currency graphs seem to show the depreciation in sterling following the Brexit vote. The Euro is doomed in your eyes yet it is 30% stronger aginst the pound than it was 10 / 15 years ago and more than 10% stronger than it was before the Brexit vote. None of your graphs on currency ever seen to show this decline in sterling. They do not start before June 2016.

 

Do you travel abroad? Have you tried recently to buy a coffee in Berlin or a meal in America? If you have you would appreciate the poor value of sterling. The Brexit vote seriously weakened sterling and has done so for over 2 years - yet you seem not to acknowledge this.

 

Daily Express readers like highly partisan , selective "facts" but we are not all like them. Why not take people who you disagree with off ignore? You may not like their arguments but it will make you a more rounded individual.

 

In short you have a habit of planning down graphs and one sided data which mislead and you expect people to believe. We are not all Daily Express readers on here !

Patronising pr!ck..

[Tamesaint]

Patronising pr!ck..

 

Nice to see that Pompey Poly only taught how to make horrible chemicals and didn't teach you anything about logical, reasoned debate.

[badgerx16]

Patronising pr!ck..

But nontheless, correct.

[van Hanegem]

...ooh, look, another dead canary:

 

Getting rid of Merkel would be a good thing for Europe, why is that a dead canary?

[Batman]

looks like the £350m PW to the NHS was wrong. It is going to be more than that.....

[Batman]

Does that balance out the £350million per week lie ?

 

 

Remind me what great things are we getting with Brexit not £350m for the NHS but aggro in Ireland and ridicule from most parts of the world

 

 

And all so that we can regain the sovereignty we never actually lost, give an imaginary £350m a week to the NHS, a

 

Wonderful

 

#triggered

[shurlock]

looks like the £350m PW to the NHS was wrong. It is going to be more than that.....

 

And Nik Nak was going to make us perennial Champions League contenders.

 

The Government and the independent Office for Budget Responsibility have themselves admitted there’s unlikely to be a Brexit dividend - even though payments to Brussels will fall, tax revenues will fall much more as a result of Brexit, leaving not a dividend but a whopping hole in the finances to the tune of £15bn each year.

 

Great news for the NHS but extra funding will be coming from extra borrowing and higher taxes. Another move in the direction of Jezza and turning us into Venezuela (if you believe some on here).

Edited 17 June, 2018 by shurlock

[Guided Missile]

Getting rid of Merkel would be a good thing for Europe, why is that a dead canary?

Canaries were used in mines to warn of a toxic build up of poisonous fumes. When the canary died, the miners got out of the mine. The prospect of the restriction of the free movement of economic migrants from outside the EU in Germany is the canary. Should freedom of movement end in Germany and Merkel quits, the basic principle of the EU, upon which it was founded ends and the EU is dead. This was picked up in the Times today, by Niall Ferguson.

 

Increasingly, I believe that the issue of migration will be seen by future historians as the fatal solvent of the EU. In their accounts Brexit will appear as merely an early symptom of the crisis. Their argument will be that a massive Völkerwanderung overwhelmed the project for European integration, exposing the weakness of the EU as an institution and driving voters back to national politics for solutions. Let us begin with the scale of the influx. In 2016 alone an estimated 2.4m migrants came to the 28 EU member states from non-EU countries, taking the total foreign-born population of the union up to 36.9m, more than 7% of the total. The problem is intractable. Continental Europe’s population is ageing and shrinking, but European labour markets have a poor record when it comes to integrating unskilled migrants. Moreover, a large proportion of Europe’s immigrants are Muslims. Liberals insist that is should be possible for Christians and Muslims to coexist peacefully in a secular, post-Christian Europe. In practice the combination of historically rooted suspicions and modern divergences in attitudes — notably on the status and role of women — is making assimilation difficult. (Compare the situation of Moroccans in Belgium with that of Mexicans in California if you don’t believe me.)

 

Finally, there is a practical problem. Europe’s southern border is almost impossible to defend against flotillas of migrants, unless Europe’s leaders are prepared to let many people drown. Politically, the migration problem looks likely to be fatal to that loose alliance between moderate social democrats and moderate conservatives/Christian democrats on which the past 70 years of European integration has been based. In Italy we see one possible future: the populists of the left (the Five Star Movement) and the populists of the right (the League) have joined forces to form a government. Their coalition is going to focus on two things: entrenching old welfare norms ( it plans to undo a recent pension reform) and excluding migrants. Last week, to much popular applause, the interior minister, Matteo Salvini, turned away a boat carrying 629 migrants rescued from the sea off Libya. The Aquarius is now en route to Spain, whose new minority Socialist government has offered to accept its human cargo. Where else can the populists come to power? They are already in government in some way in six EU member states: Austria, the Czech Republic, Greece, Hungary, Italy and Poland. But across the EU there are a total of 11 populist parties with popular support of 20% or more, implying that the number of populist governments could roughly double. It’s just that few countries can match Italy for political flexibility. Imagine, if you can, the right-wing Alternative für Deutschland (AfD) sitting down with the German leftists (Die Linke) for sausages and beer in Berlin. Impossible. As a result, as Germans found after their last election, there is in fact no alternative but for the old grand coalition of centre-right and centre-left to limp onwards.

 

Limp is the word. Last week the chancellor, Angela Merkel, collided with Horst Seehofer, her interior minister, who wants to turn away from Germany’s borders any migrants already registered in other EU states. Under the EU’s Dublin regulation, the country where an immigrant first arrives is in theory responsible for his or her asylum application. But in practice migrants can shop around for the most favourable destination, thanks to the Schengen system of borderless travel that Germany belongs to. In Merkel’s eyes, Germany cannot opt out of Schengen without risking the collapse of the entire system of free movement. Her hope is she can cobble together some kind of pan-European package on immigration at the EU summit in Brussels at the end of this month. But it is not yet clear that her Bavarian Christian Social Union coalition partner (which Seehofer leads) can go along with this. The CSU has state elections approaching in October and fears losses to the AfD precisely on the immigration issue. In any case, the chances of a coherent pan-European migration strategy seem remote. National borders look like a simpler solution. I used to be sceptical of the argument that Brexit was about leaving a sinking ship. I am now reassessing my view. Even as the impossibility of reconciling Tory remainers and Brexiteers becomes an existential threat to Theresa May, events in Europe are moving in directions that seemed inconceivable just a few years ago.

 

Nice to see that someone has been reading my posts...

[shurlock]

Canaries were used in mines to warn of a toxic build up of poisonous fumes. When the canary died, the miners got out of the mine. The prospect of the restriction of the free movement of economic migrants from outside the EU in Germany is the canary. Should freedom of movement end in Germany and Merkel quits, the basic principle of the EU, upon which it was founded ends and the EU is dead. This was picked up in the Times today, by Niall Ferguson.

 

 

 

Nice to see that someone has been reading my posts...

 

Freedom of movement and the migrant crisis from North Africa and the Middle East are separate issues, you absolute moron.

Edited 17 June, 2018 by shurlock

[Guided Missile]

looks like the £350m PW to the NHS was wrong. It is going to be more than that.....

I make the Brexit dividend about £384 m PW more to spend on the NHS, according to May.