Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[badgerx16]

More bad news here...

 

I guess that means we won't hear any more from the traitors. The games up lads and you lost. God save the Queen.

Do you ever read what you quote ?

"The surge to more than $1.37 came after Bloomberg reported that the Spanish and Dutch finance ministers had agreed to seek a Brexit deal that kept the UK as close to the EU as possible."

 

And why do you label as "traitors" people who hold a different viewpoint from you ? Yet again you present your usual boorish, childish, pathetically inferior personality to the world.

[scotty]

Do you ever read what you quote ?

"The surge to more than $1.37 came after Bloomberg reported that the Spanish and Dutch finance ministers had agreed to seek a Brexit deal that kept the UK as close to the EU as possible."

 

And why do you label as "traitors" people who hold a different viewpoint from you ? Yet again you present your usual boorish, childish, pathetically inferior personality to the world.

 

Half of this thread has seen remainers sneeringly referring to leavers as "jihadists".

[Jonnyboy]

Half of this thread has seen remainers sneeringly referring to leavers as "jihadists".

 

Only since you lot started throwing around the traitors slur.

[badgerx16]

Half of this thread has seen remainers sneeringly referring to leavers as "jihadists".

'Jihadists' is a term that can take one of 2 interpretations; to a 'jihadist' he is proud to be doing God's work, to his opponent he is a dangerous fanatic. 'Traitor' is simply a derogatory and insulting slur.

[Wes Tender]

When God was handing out brains, you weren’t at the front of the queue, were you pal?

 

Your New Year's resolution to try and be a less obnoxious person didn't last long, did it?

[hypochondriac]

'Jihadists' is a term that can take one of 2 interpretations; to a 'jihadist' he is proud to be doing God's work, to his opponent he is a dangerous fanatic. 'Traitor' is simply a derogatory and insulting slur.

Yes you are correct that you can take it two ways but let's not pretend that those using it in this thread are not fully aware of the implications. We all know what they are trying to say so let's not act dumb.

[badgerx16]

?....so let's not act dumb.

Quite right, Remainers should not be dragged down to the Leavers' level.

[hypochondriac]

Quite right, Remainers should not be dragged down to the Leavers' level.

Yeah you're really one for taking the moral high ground.

[scotty]

'Jihadists' is a term that can take one of 2 interpretations; to a 'jihadist' he is proud to be doing God's work, to his opponent he is a dangerous fanatic. 'Traitor' is simply a derogatory and insulting slur.

 

:lol:

 

Come off it, ffs.

[scotty]

Only since you lot started throwing around the traitors slur.

 

What do you mean, "you lot"? I didn't give much of a toss which way the vote went, that's why I didn't bother. I had a very slight preference to stay in, but only if the margin was so narrow that some future government couldn't use it to drag us into the euro.

[buctootim]

I had a very slight preference to stay in, but only if the margin was so narrow that some future government couldn't use it to drag us into the euro.

 

Seems odd that was the main issue for you. I don't think any leading politician in the UK since Blair has been keen to join

[scotty]

Seems odd that was the main issue for you. I don't think any leading politician in the UK since Blair has been keen to join

 

None that have actually been in power, but some that have been surprisingly close to it. The libdems were in coalition, they'd definitely have us in before you could blink if they had enough pull, and salmond was quite near the point where he'd have been able to take an independent scotland out of sterling and into the euro (in fact, it was his stated aim as one of his first priorities.) It's not just the currency issue, important though that is, it's what else would inevitably follow it that also makes that a red line for me.

[scotty]

....incidentally, just seen an interesting take on the vote from another website. This makes more sense to me in explaining the leave vote than most of the accusations bandied around about "little englanders" etc.

As for the EU, I've said many times what I see is a hijack of a great idea to create a trading and cooperation area between free independent nations. A hijack by a resurgent Germany and a wannabe imperial France backed by globalised corporations and international finance calling the shots in Europe. Its frankly another attempt to build a European empire with German economic backing (they are the only nation really doing well out of the project, ask the Italians, the Greeks, the Spanish etc.)

 

The Empire dreamers aren't in Britain anymore (done that, been there, got bitten too many times) they are the EU with their plans for European armies, United States of Europe, internal markets advantageous to those who give up sovereignty and join their empire and punishing to those who refuse. A European land based empire by any other name with the imperial capital in Brussels where the empires laws are made and its ruling classes can run things with little or dissent from the serfs they are creating. Reducing the commodity of labour and skill to its lowest worth by creating a vast pool of cheap mobile workers willing to travel and leave their homes and compete with each other for work in a race to the bottom whilst the few get richer and richer.

 

Taking back control is more than taking back control of a border. We can choose what we get after Brexit if we stop arguing with each other about whether or not we should give up and be part of the European empire or remain a small free and independent nation and just get on with working to create a Britain we'd actually all like to be part of.

[Jonnyboy]

....incidentally, just seen an interesting take on the vote from another website. This makes more sense to me in explaining the leave vote than most of the accusations bandied around about "little englanders" etc.

As for the EU, I've said many times what I see is a hijack of a great idea to create a trading and cooperation area between free independent nations. A hijack by a resurgent Germany and a wannabe imperial France backed by globalised corporations and international finance calling the shots in Europe. Its frankly another attempt to build a European empire with German economic backing (they are the only nation really doing well out of the project, ask the Italians, the Greeks, the Spanish etc.)

 

The Empire dreamers aren't in Britain anymore (done that, been there, got bitten too many times) they are the EU with their plans for European armies, United States of Europe, internal markets advantageous to those who give up sovereignty and join their empire and punishing to those who refuse. A European land based empire by any other name with the imperial capital in Brussels where the empires laws are made and its ruling classes can run things with little or dissent from the serfs they are creating. Reducing the commodity of labour and skill to its lowest worth by creating a vast pool of cheap mobile workers willing to travel and leave their homes and compete with each other for work in a race to the bottom whilst the few get richer and richer.

 

Taking back control is more than taking back control of a border. We can choose what we get after Brexit if we stop arguing with each other about whether or not we should give up and be part of the European empire or remain a small free and independent nation and just get on with working to create a Britain we'd actually all like to be part of.

 

Which is why I voted Remain but I said I'd prefer to be out but with Corbyn as PM. At the time that seemed an impossibility but just maybe now...

[scotty]

Which is why I voted Remain but I said I'd prefer to be out but with Corbyn as PM. At the time that seemed an impossibility but just maybe now...

 

That's interesting, because I wanted us to stay in, with the proviso that we had already gone as far into the union as we were going to and that our status quo would prevail. My fear was always that we would simply become further integrated into a huge project in which our own elected representatives could only ever have a minimal say. And fwiw, I reckon Corbyn would have been just the ticket in that respect.

[saint1977]

UKIP leader’s girlfriend in trouble for texts about Harry’s fiancé. Staying classy as ever

[Verbal]

Which is why I voted Remain but I said I'd prefer to be out but with Corbyn as PM. At the time that seemed an impossibility but just maybe now...

 

I recognise your need to be obediently loyal to St Jez, but you're not reading him right. He defines 'membership' of the single market as decision-making rights. By that measure, Norway is not a 'member' but is actually a member (without quotation marks). Ditto the customs union. It's a semantic dance to which you're going to have to learn because this is how it's going to be from here on in.

 

The Jihadist hard Brexiteers have lost, by the way.

[shurlock]

I recognise your need to be obediently loyal to St Jez, but you're not reading him right. He defines 'membership' of the single market as decision-making rights. By that measure, Norway is not a 'member' but is actually a member (without quotation marks). Ditto the customs union. It's a semantic dance to which you're going to have to learn because this is how it's going to be from here on in.

 

The Jihadist hard Brexiteers have lost, by the way.

 

Norway isn't part of the customs union.

 

Agree the Jihadist hard Brexiteers have lost - that's why Farage is coyly angling for another referendum. Nowt to do with Parliament.

[Verbal]

Norway isn't part of the customs union.

 

Agree the Jihadist hard Brexiteers have lost - that's why Farage is coyly angling for another referendum. Nowt to do with Parliament.

 

Apologies - I meant 'membership' of customs union in Jez-speak means decision-making rights so he's fudging actual membership with his own unique take on how membership is defined.

[Jonnyboy]

I recognise your need to be obediently loyal to St Jez, but you're not reading him right. He defines 'membership' of the single market as decision-making rights. By that measure, Norway is not a 'member' but is actually a member (without quotation marks). Ditto the customs union. It's a semantic dance to which you're going to have to learn because this is how it's going to be from here on in.

 

The Jihadist hard Brexiteers have lost, by the way.

 

I'm just glad you voted Corbyn for PM at the last election. Good lad

[Guided Missile]

The poor saps in Sunderland or Doncaster or Spalding won't be any better off, while the rich and privileged will be just fine. Based on lots of the reports at the time, the people in those places could barely articulate why the voted out either.

 

I still like your reason the best - you voted out to stick it to the powerful vested interests and to stick it to the likes of Goldman Sachs. Guess what - they will be absolutely, 100%, copper bottomed fine. They'll win Brexit regardless of the referendum vote.

 

 

The news from New York here shows what I have long suspected would happen. Finally the reality is catching up with the casino bankers:

 

Goldman Sachs used to seem invincible. In the fourth quarter, it lost money. The Wall Street firm on Wednesday reported its first quarterly loss since 2011. It was the result of a one-time $4.4 billion charge stemming from the new tax law. But even ignoring that unusual event, Goldman’s weak core results showed how far the firm has fallen.

 

It seems only yesterday, Goldman Sachs were sticking their oar in here:

 

Goldman Sachs boss issues veiled threat over Brexit job exodus from London. Lloyd Blankfein tweets picture of £350m HQ under construction with message ‘hoping to fill it up, but so much is outside our control’

 

Mate, running Goldman Sachs is within your control. I'd concentrate on that, rather than giving the UK advice on it's prospects.

 

Talking of foreigners giving advice, remember Mark Carney, our favourite Canadian economic genius? Here he's receiving advice from a prominent Brexiteer:

 

CARNEY BASHED: Anti-Brexit BIAS endangers Bank of England credibility, says expert.

Mr Marshall, who founded Marshall Wace alongside Ian Wace, is a major Liberal Democrat donor and pro-Brexit. His firm, manages over $30 billion in assets from offices in London, New York, and Hong Kong and is backed by US private equity firm KKR. His top employees can earn up to £14 million a year. But, he scolded BoE Governor Mark Carney for intervening during the Brexit campaign when he warned that leaving the EU could spark a recession.

He added when BoE chief economist Andy Haldane suggested the bank had a Michael Fish moment over Brexit - he was “being unfair to weather forecasters” who got the 1987 storm wrong. Paul Marshall, the Chairman of hedge fund Marshall Wace blasted the bank for scaremongering.

In 2016, the Bank of England predicted exports would be down in 2017 by 0.5 percent, despite sterling being devalued. However, they were up by 8.3 percent from the third quarter. The bank also predicted that investment would be down by two percent. But figures from the Office for National Statistics showed that investment was up by 1.7 percent.

Mr Marshall told the FT that the bank’s forecasts were so "far adrift as to be embarrassing.The governor needs to be careful that the bank does not make more serious mistakes."

 

Andy Haldane suggested the bank had a Michael Fish moment over Brexit - he was “being unfair to weather forecasters”

 

Here's how bad we are doing:

 

FTSE

 

Sterling

 

There's a reason we're called Great Britain and the traitors all forgot it.

 

PS I know the real reason we're called Great Britain, but prefer mine. We're a Great Country, Macron. Thanks for reminding us the last time your country beat us was in 1066.

[solentstars]

its going great that we are begging for trade deals and we are a great country unfortunelly the little englanders are screwing it up with their fantasy world nonsence. still i can wave my blue passport while the rest of the world think we lost the plot.

[badgerx16]

There's a reason we're called Great Britain and the traitors all forgot it.

I assume from your statement that you dismiss our territory on the other side of the Irish Sea, given that the correct title for our nation is the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", which is usually shortened to United Kingdom, or abbreviated to UK, ( except for some strange reason in international sports when they tend to use GBR ).

Edited 18 January, 2018 by badgerx16

[buctootim]

 

 

[shurlock]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Any fool can play this game, right John. Fill your boots, little fella.

[OldNick]

One question Shurlock, why is it good that imports are up in Europe, surely the exports are more important, as the imports makes Europe poorer surely??

[shurlock]

One question Shurlock, why is it good that imports are up in Europe, surely the exports are more important, as the imports makes Europe poorer surely??

 

The point is about Europe's role in the global economy as an engine for trade. Brexiteers like to claim that the EU market is becoming less important: so what if we're out, the real demand for exports is being generated elsewhere, in emerging markets such as China or large established markets such as the US. Over the past couple of years and possibly going forward if trends continue, that has not been the case.

[Guided Missile]

More good news, this time from a Remainer, posted on the BBC here.

 

UK growth upgrade could 'dwarf' Brexit hit

Britain should prepare for a much more economically optimistic 2018 because global growth is better than predicted. That's the argument of Lord Jim O'Neill, the former Conservative Treasury minister and Remain supporter.

He said Britain's growth forecasts are likely to be upgraded as China, the US and Europe show increased activity. The gloomy predictions of the possible effects of Brexit are likely to be "dwarfed" by the more positive figures, Lord O'Neill added.

I love the way the traitors on this thread have scuttled under the nearest rocks like cockroaches, with every piece of good news. I can't wait for the negative spin some of the more repellent of these insects will place on this news, in a vain attempt to put our great country down.

 

All in all, rather than our "Darkest Hour", Brexit, so far, has been a vicars tea party

[Nolan]

This will be an interesting one for Ireland to contend with (and by extension Sinn Fein).

 

France to push for unified Corporate tax rates over the Eurozone.

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/its-june-or-nothing-for-eurozone-reform-bruno-le-maire/

[shurlock]

More good news, this time from a Remainer, posted on the BBC here.

 

 

I love the way the traitors on this thread have scuttled under the nearest rocks like cockroaches, with every piece of good news. I can't wait for the negative spin some of the more repellent of these insects will place on this news, in a vain attempt to put our great country down.

 

All in all, rather than our "Darkest Hour", Brexit, so far, has been a vicars tea party

 

Morning John

 

I thought it we deal only in FACTS, not predictions given their lousy track record. You do realise that O’Neill is making a prediction, don’t you little fella?

 

I’ve also noticed, John, your mind seems to wander, you seem incapable of reading an article to the end and processing information consistently. It could be an endocrine problem. Do you know why O’Neill is more optimistic? Because the rest of the world, not least Europe, is motoring along. I guess you missed the bit in the article where it asks how much better the country could be doing without the uncertainty over its relationship with the EU. In other words, the UK economy could have been doing much better had it voted to remain in the EU.

 

Ive not scuttled anywhere. Am always here for you pal.

Edited 22 January, 2018 by shurlock
pour Les

[scotty]

You do realise that O’Neill is making a prediction, don’t you little fella?

 

Not really, no. He's commenting on another prediction regarding global growth, and saying that if it's accurate then the effects of brexit will be less relevant than he'd expected. He also seems to be trying to put the effects into context, which is laudable given the wildly exaggerated prophecies of the impending economic stone age/golden years proclaimed by each side of the argument.

[shurlock]

Not really, no. He's commenting on another prediction regarding global growth, and saying that if it's accurate then the effects of brexit will be less relevant than he'd expected. He also seems to be trying to put the effects into context, which is laudable given the wildly exaggerated prophecies of the impending economic stone age/golden years proclaimed by each side of the argument.

 

It’s a prediction.

[Nolan]

He's actually trying to put out an excuse of why the British Economy is still dying well "despite Brexit"?

[Verbal]

More good news, this time from a Remainer, posted on the BBC here.

 

 

I love the way the traitors on this thread have scuttled under the nearest rocks like cockroaches, with every piece of good news. I can't wait for the negative spin some of the more repellent of these insects will place on this news, in a vain attempt to put our great country down.

 

All in all, rather than our "Darkest Hour", Brexit, so far, has been a vicars tea party

 

It looks like you are trying to defend Brexit. Would you therefore turn on caps lock and disable spell check?

[shurlock]

It looks like you are trying to defend Brexit. Would you therefore turn on caps lock and disable spell check?

 

Don't encourage him, he'll start copying and pasting random lists from Wikipedia and charts which he doesn't understand again.

[scotty]

It’s a prediction.

 

Given that it hasn't taken place yet, so is everything else that's been said regarding the effects of brexit after it happens. It's an interesting piece though, because O'Neill is firmly in the remain camp but pointing out that the effects of brexit probably won't be particularly significant either way; it's nice to see a bit of context put out there instead of the usual incessant tub-thumping and doom-mongering.

[Highfield Saint]

Given that it hasn't taken place yet, so is everything else that's been said regarding the effects of brexit after it happens. It's an interesting piece though, because O'Neill is firmly in the remain camp but pointing out that the effects of brexit probably won't be particularly significant either way; it's nice to see a bit of context put out there instead of the usual incessant tub-thumping and doom-mongering.

 

Isn't he saying that the forecast hit to our economy of Brexit of c. 3% will be negated by global growth and that regardless of what we are forecast to achieve we would grow more ( c. 3% ) if we had remained?

[Wes Tender]

In other words, the UK economy could have been doing much better had it voted to remain in the UK.

 

Are we leaving the UK?

[shurlock]

Are we leaving the UK?

 

Good spot Les.

[scotty]

Isn't he saying that the forecast hit to our economy of Brexit of c. 3% will be negated by global growth and that regardless of what we are forecast to achieve we would grow more ( c. 3% ) if we had remained?

 

That's pretty much how I read it, yes. But as both figures are only forecasts I wouldn't set much store by it. There was forecast to be serious damage to the UK economy as soon as we'd voted to leave, but that hasn't materialised much beyond a weakening of sterling, which most economists seem to think was overdue anyway.

[shurlock]

That's pretty much how I read it, yes. But as both figures are only forecasts I wouldn't set much store by it. There was forecast to be serious damage to the UK economy as soon as we'd voted to leave, but that hasn't materialised much beyond a weakening of sterling, which most economists seem to think was overdue anyway.

 

One stab at the cost to date, based on calculating the difference between the UK's GDP growth in 2016 and how much the economy would have grown had the UK voted remain:

 

https://www.ft.com/content/e3b29230-db5f-11e7-a039-c64b1c09b482

[Trader]

That's pretty much how I read it, yes. But as both figures are only forecasts I wouldn't set much store by it. There was forecast to be serious damage to the UK economy as soon as we'd voted to leave, but that hasn't materialised much beyond a weakening of sterling, which most economists seem to think was overdue anyway.

 

Which has since recovered to within a whisker of its value a week before the referendum, when it shot up in expectation of a remain win.

[shurlock]

Which has since recovered to within a whisker of its value a week before the referendum, when it shot up in expectation of a remain win.

 

Against the euro?

[CB Fry]

Business leaders push for new campaign to reverse Brexit

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/22/business-leaders-push-for-new-campaign-to-reverse-brexit?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

 

 

To be honest though, self-centred agenda-driven so-called business "leaders" can all get stuffed. Unless of course they run a discount pub chain or make vacuum cleaners in Malaysia.

[Nolan]

Borrowing a tweet from @hughrbennett

 

"A short history of the @CBItweets:

 

1987: CBI backs ERM membership

1999: CBI backs Euro membership

2016: CBI backs EU membership

2018: CBI backs Customs Union membership

 

#Peston #wrongthenwrongnow https://t.co/R6KBVNK5Ks"

[shurlock]

Borrowing a tweet from @hughrbennett

 

"A short history of the @CBItweets:

 

1987: CBI backs ERM membership

1999: CBI backs Euro membership

2016: CBI backs EU membership

2018: CBI backs Customs Union membership

 

#Peston #wrongthenwrongnow https://t.co/R6KBVNK5Ks"

 

How about groups like the Institute of Directors?

 

Am not going to float the case that critiques of the Euro are exaggerated - bit above your paygrade, little fella.

[Nolan]

How about groups like the Institute of Directors?

 

Am not going to float the case that critiques of the Euro are exaggerated - bit above your paygrade, little fella.

Nothing wrong with the currency. What is wrong is the constraints of government coming from the currency.

 

Is difficult enough balancing and economy encompassing London and Cornwall, let alone trying to find a balance that would work for Krakow and the basque country.

[Guided Missile]

Nothing wrong with the currency. What is wrong is the constraints of government coming from the currency.

Any currency that is supported by a massive and sustained "quantitative easing" is obviously a hostage to the body that controls it. When QE is finally unwound in Europe and the US, you'll find out exactly what's wrong with currency in today's post 2008 economy. Just to give you a clue. It's commonly referred to as debt.

 

A storm is brewing...

[Johnny Bognor]

[colehillsaint]

 

All achieved with a gig economy and lots of pointless higher or further education. Nothing to be read into Brexit either way, but little to really celebrate in the employment market in this country, if you are a realist.