Brexit - Post Match Reaction

[Sheaf Saint]

£50bn (at least) to get us out of the biggest free trading block in the world, just so that we can go on to try and negotiate a deal that will allow us to retain as much access to that market as we can get, but on vastly inferior terms.

 

And all so that we can regain the sovereignty we never actually lost, give an imaginary £350m a week to the NHS, and not have to put up with listening to people speaking Polish on public transport.

 

Wonderful

[Batman]

£50bn (at least) to get us out of the biggest free trading block in the world, just so that we can go on to try and negotiate a deal that will allow us to retain as much access to that market as we can get, but on vastly inferior terms.

 

And all so that we can regain the sovereignty we never actually lost, give an imaginary £350m a week to the NHS, and not have to put up with listening to people speaking Polish on public transport.

 

Wonderful

 

and yet, it was rejected.

[aintforever]

I prefer "voter".

 

...who can't grasp the simple concept of abstaining.

[CB Fry]

...who can't grasp the simple concept of abstaining.

I get it perfectly well sunshine. You've opted out, so fu ck off out of the debate.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I wonder if the referendum result would have been the same if the campaign battle bus said "Vote leave. Lets give the EU an extra £1billion per week and take it from the NHS".

 

Extra?

 

Is it £50 billion every year?

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Edited 30 November, 2017 by Lord Duckhunter

[Sour Mash]

£50bn to be outside of all of the influence and benefits of being inside, £50bn to limit the damage to the UK economy and yet more swivelled-eyed loons want us to go under WTO rules which would be even worse.

 

All because 52% of the electorate couldn't spot that we clearly weren't going to be getting £350m a week back for the NHS. Labour left and Tory right were mugs.

December 2017 and snowflakes are still crying about the £350m , no wonder the whole thing went over their head and they lost

[Orange]

December 2017 and snowflakes are still crying about the £350m , no wonder the whole thing went over their head and they lost

 

You have to laugh don't you, after everything they had stacked in their favour, the whole weight of the establishment, and after all the falsehoods they spread...they're still crying because the leave campaign took the gross and not net figure. It's victim mentality on another level.

[Sour Mash]

You have to laugh don't you, after everything they had stacked in their favour, the whole weight of the establishment, and after all the falsehoods they spread...they're still crying because the leave campaign took the gross and not net figure. It's victim mentality on another level.

 

And more importantly, no-one took any notice of the bus. They still don't get why they lost, don't know if it's funny or sad to be honest.

[aintforever]

IMO the leave campaign made a big mistake in making such a big deal about the bus - it just gave massive publicity to a bus hardly anyone would have taken much notice of. Wether it was the net or gross figure would have made very little difference - the message they helped get across was that we pay a very large amount every day into the EU. £350mill, £300mill, £250mill - it’s all figures the average person cannot really comprehend - that’s why for all their moaning about being misleading I never once remember seeing the leave campaign give an accurate figure on the amount we pay in - they preferred it if the public didn’t know which is just as misleading.

[simo]

I see the Eu want to ban kebabs , we need out and we need out now !

[Jonnyboy]

You have to laugh don't you, after everything they had stacked in their favour, the whole weight of the establishment, and after all the falsehoods they spread...they're still crying because the leave campaign took the gross and not net figure. It's victim mentality on another level.

 

What "falsehoods?"

[Lord Duckhunter]

IMO the leave campaign made a big mistake in making such a big deal about the bus - it just gave massive publicity to a bus hardly anyone would have taken much notice of. Wether it was the net or gross figure would have made very little difference - the message they helped get across was that we pay a very large amount every day into the EU. £350mill, £300mill, £250mill - it’s all figures the average person cannot really comprehend - that’s why for all their moaning about being misleading I never once remember seeing the leave campaign give an accurate figure on the amount we pay in - they preferred it if the public didn’t know which is just as misleading.

 

Great post

 

 

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[buctootim]

Brexit seems to be coming apart at the seams. Ive go to say that amazes me since it was so well thought through in advance.

[shurlock]

 

Presumably just a temporary setback, though hard to see a way through at this present moment.

Edited 4 December, 2017 by shurlock

[Weston Super Saint]

Not sure how / why this is a surprise to you!

 

There are at least 30 separate parties with their podgy fingers in the pie. There is no way that an agreement between all the parties will ever be reached. The process will run its course with both sides claiming a victory at various points but the UK will end up leaving the EU with no agreement in place and under WTO rules. It's as inevitable as Monday following Sunday.

[shurlock]

Not sure how / why this is a surprise to you!

 

There are at least 30 separate parties with their podgy fingers in the pie. There is no way that an agreement between all the parties will ever be reached. The process will run its course with both sides claiming a victory at various points but the UK will end up leaving the EU with no agreement in place and under WTO rules. It's as inevitable as Monday following Sunday.

 

Not really in this instance pal. More a case of the kippers pretending Ireland and the border question didn’t exist or assuming it could be swatted away with vacuous, patronising reassurances; and reality coming back to bite them.

Edited 4 December, 2017 by shurlock

[aintforever]

Not sure how / why this is a surprise to you!

 

There are at least 30 separate parties with their podgy fingers in the pie. There is no way that an agreement between all the parties will ever be reached. The process will run its course with both sides claiming a victory at various points but the UK will end up leaving the EU with no agreement in place and under WTO rules. It's as inevitable as Monday following Sunday.

 

This, no way in a million years will there be a deal.

[shurlock]

This, no way in a million years will there be a deal.

 

Getting in the excuses early, bottlejob.

[hypochondriac]

Imo the most likely scenario is the worst one- corbyn gets in, concedes to everything and then "leaves" the EU whilst staying in customs union and the single market whilst having no voting rights and paying 50 billion for nothing. All whilst racking up debts.

[CB Fry]

When do the German car manufacturers start banging on Merkel's door again?

[LGTL]

Typically arrogant, May believed it was only the "little old Irish" and they'd accept anything we gave them, when in fact, little old Ireland was backed up by the entire EU. Junker must be rubbing his hands with glee. To think we have that hideous Arlene Foster dictating things beggars belief, quite frankly.

 

You reap what you sow, and that div May has pretty much nailed her own coffin by getting into bed with the DUP, who foresaw all this.

 

There can literally be no winner, EU/Ireland won't budge and why should they, and the DUP won't either. Absolutely ****ed.

[aintforever]

Typically arrogant, May believed it was only the "little old Irish" and they'd accept anything we gave them, when in fact, little old Ireland was backed up by the entire EU. Junker must be rubbing his hands with glee. To think we have that hideous Arlene Foster dictating things beggars belief, quite frankly.

 

You reap what you sow, and that div May has pretty much nailed her own coffin by getting into bed with the DUP, who foresaw all this.

 

There can literally be no winner, EU/Ireland won't budge and why should they, and the DUP won't either. Absolutely ****ed.

 

It will have to be either a Brexit Lite - UK staying in the customs union, or no deal Brexit - WTO rules with hard border in Ireland. The simple fact is if we leave the customs union there has to be a border - that’s always been the case.

[LGTL]

It will have to be either a Brexit Lite - UK staying in the customs union, or no deal Brexit - WTO rules with hard border in Ireland. The simple fact is if we leave the customs union there has to be a border - that’s always been the case.

 

Agree, it'll be a no deal Brexit disaster.

[Verbal]

I see the Jihadists are piping up in a collective howl of stupidity.

[scotty]

Imo the most likely scenario is the worst one- corbyn gets in, concedes to everything and then "leaves" the EU whilst staying in customs union and the single market whilst having no voting rights and paying 50 billion for nothing. All whilst racking up debts.

 

If corbyn were to get in, and that's one hell of an if, I'd think it unlikely that he'd take anything other than a harder stance than the current lot. Isn't he broadly anti europe, although he campaigned rather weakly for remain?

[hypochondriac]

If corbyn were to get in, and that's one hell of an if, I'd think it unlikely that he'd take anything other than a harder stance than the current lot. Isn't he broadly anti europe, although he campaigned rather weakly for remain?

Almost all of the noises coming from his party suggests not.

[thesaint sfc]

What happens to us who live in the EU? I can't believe that they're trying to give us the impression that they're in such advanced talks when even the basic things haven't been figured out.

[Batman]

What happens to us who live in the EU? I can't believe that they're trying to give us the impression that they're in such advanced talks when even the basic things haven't been figured out.

you will be gathered up and sent to work is labour camps.

[badgerx16]

If only Tessie hadn't called the entirely unnecessary General Election and p!$$ed away her majority. The whole UK is getting a taste of what Stormont has inflicted on NI for the last few years - stagnation and arrogant, selfish, posturing.

[Lord Duckhunter]

If corbyn were to get in, and that's one hell of an if, I'd think it unlikely that he'd take anything other than a harder stance than the current lot. Isn't he broadly anti europe, although he campaigned rather weakly for remain?

 

Corbyn has been anti EU, his whole political career, he voted against every single treaty change. Until he became leader, when all of a sudden he had a road to Damascus moment. Being a principled politician, this had nothing to do with 90% of his personal supporters being pro EU or the fact that his party wouldn’t accept his position.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Verbal]

Usual magical thinking from DD. What's the difference between a regulation and its outcome? Surely if a regulation states that chicken cannot be chlorine washed, then the outcome is that chickens are not chlorine washed.

 

You poor Jihadists, wrapping up your hopes and dreams in this government and incompetent and ludicrous Brexit cheerleaders.

[shurlock]

Where have all the jihadists gone with their ready optimism and solutions? Their little redlines and fantasies tattered and frayed after the slightest brush with reality. Leftie snowflakes appear to have a firmer grasp of reality. Starting to feel a tinge of sympathy for the more easily led among you.

Edited 5 December, 2017 by shurlock

[scotty]

Where have all the jihadists gone with their ready optimism and solutions?

 

They're probably bored with arguing over something which has already happened and shows no sign whatsoever of being reversed. I know I am.

[Guided Missile]

They're probably bored with arguing over something which has already happened and shows no sign whatsoever of being reversed. I know I am.

Exactly. I would describe it as accepting the inevitable, confident in the prospects which won't be changed by a meaningless impact assessment. We already had that from Osborne and the Bank of England and I'm struggling to notice the 500,000 additional unemployed and the inevitable recession the Leave vote was going to cause.

[shurlock]

They're probably bored with arguing over something which has already happened and shows no sign whatsoever of being reversed. I know I am.

 

Not really an answer.

 

The UK is leaving the EU -yet we don’t know on what terms. Nor do we know what concessions will be made, despite the jihadists telling us that getting out of the EU would be quick and easy and that the UK held most of the cards in any negotiation. Apparently the cabinet doesn’t know what outcome it wants and hasn’t even discussed the issue. We don’t know whether any exit will be smooth or chaotic, though some may have an inkling and with what political and economic consequences.

 

So no, there are plenty of unknowns and plenty of things yet to happen. The jihadists are nowhere to be seen because they’re full of s**t and now things are getting real.

[Shandy_Top_89]

The quality of governance in the UK since May 2015 appear to be the greatest advert for the Lib Dems ever created.

 

Just look at the omnishambles they were holding back.

[Batman]

The quality of governance in the UK since May 2015 appear to be the greatest advert for the Lib Dems ever created.

 

Just look at the omnishambles they were holding back.

 

and, how do you think the LibDems will do at the next election?

[aintforever]

and, how do you think the LibDems will do at the next election?

 

Probably just as bad as the last one thanks to our retarded first past the post electoral system.

 

I wonder how many millions will vote for May purely because they don’t want Corbyn to get in? What a great system, stuck with a choice of two useless old ****s.

[badgerx16]

What a great system, stuck with a choice of two useless old ****s.

If it's good enough for the 'Land of the Free'.....

[OldNick]

Exactly. I would describe it as accepting the inevitable, confident in the prospects which won't be changed by a meaningless impact assessment. We already had that from Osborne and the Bank of England and I'm struggling to notice the 500,000 additional unemployed and the inevitable recession the Leave vote was going to cause.

that is after we leave not during the process of leaving. I'm in business and cant see what good leaving is going to do to help many of our people.

The return to our nation pre joining the UK is not very appealing to me. Leavers are much like turkeys voting for xmas.

Just the Irish border is a nightmare, do you realise that there are 200 roads, we are not talking about main roads of course but it is a porous border....I know build a wall, Trump like

[scotty]

that is after we leave not during the process of leaving. I'm in business and cant see what good leaving is going to do to help many of our people.

The return to our nation pre joining the UK is not very appealing to me. Leavers are much like turkeys voting for xmas.

Just the Irish border is a nightmare, do you realise that there are 200 roads, we are not talking about main roads of course but it is a porous border....I know build a wall, Trump like..........

 

..............and get the mexicans to pay for it!!!

[CB Fry]

Probably just as bad as the last one thanks to our retarded first past the post electoral system.

 

I wonder how many millions will vote for May purely because they don’t want Corbyn to get in? What a great system, stuck with a choice of two useless old ****s.

Like you, I'm a massive believer in proportional representation for people too sh it scared to actually cast a vote for anything.

[Shandy_Top_89]

and, how do you think the LibDems will do at the next election?

 

Oh of course they will get smashed (again), I am a realist

 

My point still stands though.

[aintforever]

Like you, I'm a massive believer in proportional representation for people too sh it scared to actually cast a vote for anything.

 

What are you dribbling on about you dopey old fool? There are two main reasons why people don't vote; 1. Apathy or 2. There is nothing on offer they want to vote for. Being scared is not a reason - unless you live in Baghdad.

[Wes Tender]

Where have all the jihadists gone with their ready optimism and solutions? Their little redlines and fantasies tattered and frayed after the slightest brush with reality. Leftie snowflakes appear to have a firmer grasp of reality. Starting to feel a tinge of sympathy for the more easily led among you.

 

Fed up with being insulted by arrogant tossers like you, I expect.

[saint si]

Exactly. I would describe it as accepting the inevitable, confident in the prospects which won't be changed by a meaningless impact assessment. We already had that from Osborne and the Bank of England and I'm struggling to notice the 500,000 additional unemployed and the inevitable recession the Leave vote was going to cause.

 

Point missed. It's not about doing an assessment for the sake of having it.

 

It's about then using the impact assessment to exploit the opportunities / mitigate the damage... regardless of viewpoint on remain/leave it is overwhelmingly obvious there will be some sectors that benefit and some that are damaged by Brexit. Even if you think every sector is going to benefit significantly, how do we maximise those opportunities? What does that mean in terms of skills needed? What will be the impact of that on public sector services? etc etc.

 

So it doesn't matter which side of the remain/leave vote you sit on, you should want the government to have the best view of consequences - positive or negative - so that they can steer the country and economy in the best direction.

 

Taking DD's approach of "i don't believe in economics since it is not 100% perfect all the time" is utter lunacy.

[Johnny Bognor]

Where have all the jihadists gone with their ready optimism and solutions? Their little redlines and fantasies tattered and frayed after the slightest brush with reality. Leftie snowflakes appear to have a firmer grasp of reality. Starting to feel a tinge of sympathy for the more easily led among you.

 

I prefer to look at the bigger picture. If we fail to create products and services that the world wants to buy, we will falter as a nation, with or without a trade deal with the EU. If we succeed as a nation in creating products and services that the world wants to buy, then we will succeed, with or without a deal with the EU (although having a deal with the EU, makes it a bit easier to sell to the EU market).

 

The US has no deal with the EU, yet many of us are carrying iPhones, sat at US branded PC's running US software. All sold to us without a trade deal, whilst generating billions in wealth for the companies concerned, their employees and the nation that taxes them.

 

My general optimism or pessimism about the nations future prosperity is intrinsically linked to the entrepreneurial spirit or lack of spirit.

 

Unfortunately lefty snowflakes don't see this and prefer to get wrapped up in red tape. An EU trade deal or staying in the EU would give short term stability no doubt, but means diddly squat when it comes to long term prosperity of the nation. If we fail to create, we're ****ed with or without an EU trade deal.

Edited 7 December, 2017 by Johnny Bognor

[Batman]

united States of Europe by 2025....if you don't like that, you will get booted out.

 

sounds good lol

[shurlock]

I prefer to look at the bigger picture. If we fail to create products and services that the world wants to buy, we will falter as a nation, with or without a trade deal with the EU. If we succeed as a nation in creating products and services that the world wants to buy, then we will succeed, with or without a deal with the EU (although having a deal with the EU, makes it a bit easier to sell to the EU market).

 

The US has no deal with the EU, yet many of us are carrying iPhones, sat at US branded PC's running US software. All sold to us without a trade deal, whilst generating billions in wealth for the companies concerned, their employees and the nation that taxes them.

 

My general optimism or pessimism about the nations future prosperity is intrinsically linked to the entrepreneurial spirit or lack of spirit.

 

Unfortunately lefty snowflakes don't see this and prefer to get wrapped up in red tape. An EU trade deal or staying in the EU would give short term stability no doubt, but means diddly squat when it comes to long term prosperity of the nation. If we fail to create, we're ****ed with or without an EU trade deal.

 

Obviously the UK needs to produce goods and services that others want - alas the UK's productivity record is miserable despite signing up to all your beloved free market nostrums.

 

Indeed, your logic can also be inverted - why does the UK have to be outside the customs union and free to sign its own trade deals if its all ultimately red-tape and overrated? The EU doesn't have a free trade deal with China or Empire 2.0 posterboy India yet Germany exports sh1t loads more than the UK to them.

 

The reality is that geography and market access do matter. The UK economy is 7x smaller than the US yet UK exports to the EU are not far behind US exports to the EU. These issues particularly matter for the UK economy which is so dependent on services. Like it or not, regulation and nontarriff barriers are fundamental to services trade - services are still five times less likely to be exported than manufacturing products for this reason.

 

Needless to say, the single market is not perfect and far from complete but its made much more headway on services than other trade arrangements - if you think the likes of China are going to open their doors to UK financial, legal and business service firms, however entrepreneurial they are, dream on pal.

Edited 7 December, 2017 by shurlock

[Weston Super Saint]

Obviously the UK needs to produce goods and services that others want - alas the UK's productivity record is miserable

 

The UK economy is 7x smaller than the US yet UK exports to the EU are not far behind US exports to the EU.

 

Is that not a contradiction?

 

You also mention that geography matters but go on to say that Germany exports 'sh1t loads' to India! Germany to India = 6748km. UK to America = 6826km so not entirely what your point is?