The New, New Manager Thread

[SuperSAINT]

I'm just going to point out that Pellegrini was a chequebook manager at Malaga as well, when Abdullah Al Thani took over. They signed the likes of Isco, Van Nistelrooy, Joaquin, Monreal and Toulalan, and broke their transfer record to sign Santi Cazorla (coincidentally from Villarreal) in 2011/12 for 21 million Euros. They'd never had that much money before and it showed.

 

Well if he got appointed and we sell Vic / Mané / Pelle & add it to the Juanmi cash, he could be a chequebook manager here too with £60m to spend.

[Pamplemousse]

Well if he got appointed and we sell Vic / Mané / Pelle & add it to the Juanmi cash, he could be a chequebook manager here too with £60m to spend.

 

Plus the new TV money.

[SuperSAINT]

Plus the new TV money.

 

True. New tv money probably goes into improved wages as well as re-paying some of the debt that Kat wiped out.

[Mallagroth]

i thought this was a new manager thread...

not a talk **** about if someone is itk or not.....who ****ing cares

 

Woah you cant be saying stuff like this on here...(pal)... Far too close to the bone. Putting others down on an internet forum is all some of us on here have going for us.

[stevy777_x]

It is now being reported in France (l'equipe) that Rudi Garcia refused our offer of managing Southampton. 2 reasons are being quoted:

1-He cannot bring more than 2 assisstants with him

2-The way the club operates on recruitment.

Is it our recruitment policy or the way the club is structured (transfer committee)?

 

I guess at the end of the day, it depends how much we want him. Either we bend over to give him what he wants, either we get look elesewhere and find someone prepared to work under these conditions.

 

Didn't we give Ronald more liberty on recruitment (Tadic, Pelle, Martina, Van Dijk) signings.

Maybe the fact that we were already recruiting Redmond with no manager in place doesn't suit him.

[captainchris]

Well if he got appointed and we sell Vic / Mané / Pelle & add it to the Juanmi cash, he could be a chequebook manager here too with £60m to spend.

 

Having watched a few Euro 16 games, you need players these days not cash because there isn't that much talent out there for any money by the looks of it. The concencus seems to be that quality is not that high these days.

Sell our good players and we will have a considerable difficulty replacing them...for any money....

[EBS1980]

It is now being reported in France (l'equipe) that Rudi Garcia refused our offer of managing Southampton. 2 reasons are being quoted:

1-He cannot bring more than 2 assisstants with him

2-The way the club operates on recruitment.

Is it our recruitment policy or the way the club is structured (transfer committee)?

 

I guess at the end of the day, it depends how much we want him. Either we bend over to give him what he wants, either we get look elesewhere and find someone prepared to work under these conditions.

 

Didn't we give Ronald more liberty on recruitment (Tadic, Pelle, Martina, Van Dijk) signings.

Maybe the fact that we were already recruiting Redmond with no manager in place doesn't suit him.

 

We we already have Watson and Lee so I guess the new manager can bring in an assistant and one other to replace the two that went to EFC

[CB Fry]

Two assistants seems not unreasonable, and the club would be right not to risk ripping apart the entire backroom operation every time the manager changes.

 

As for recruitment then I doubt Garcia will truly get any more autonomy at any other major club than he'd got here. The current squad has got Koeman's influence all over it - you can't tell me the black box just so happened to turn out Clasie and Tadic and Pelle and Virgil and Cuco etc etc.

 

Probably more boringly about money or a sense that the fit wasn't right on either side.

 

I liked the look of Garcia a lot but in all honesty didn't know him from Adam two weeks ago, so happy to let the club appoint the right man. As long as it isn't Eddie Howe or La Liga Hipster Relegation Boy.

[captainchris]

It really does look as though the so called Southampton Way, Black Box process etc etc was not ready and prepared for RK to leave. We seem to be lost in the woods on a replacement, unable to decide with no particular short list or ready replacement in mind when RK left.

We were ill prepared for this eventuality and this time round will end up with a compromise rather than an ideal fit. Certainly it has been a surprise that we have been caught so cold considering the often heard 'giving it large' on our Black Box preparedness and stratedgy that is reportedly in place.

Given that the situation has been brewing for quite a while with a reasonable probability of Koeman leaving we seem to have been caught with our trousers down.

At least Everton had a clear strategy and a short list with a definate preference, they were well organised and took decisive action to implement the process of bringing their new man in. Put the money to one side, they had a plan and did they ever put it into practice.

If reports are to be believed we have been lacking in our research on prospective candidate suitability and are now trawling for any random fish who maybe less fit than we need..

[Avenue_Saint]

Get Garcia in, failing that- Pellegrini

[Nolan]

You've got to wonder how the two assistants rule would effect other options. Pellegrini took an Asst Manager, Fitness coach AND goalkeeping coach from Real to City.

[angelman]

It really does look as though the so called Southampton Way, Black Box process etc etc was not ready and prepared for RK to leave. We seem to be lost in the woods on a replacement, unable to decide with no particular short list or ready replacement in mind when RK left.

We were ill prepared for this eventuality and this time round will end up with a compromise rather than an ideal fit. Certainly it has been a surprise that we have been caught so cold considering the often heard 'giving it large' on our Black Box preparedness and stratedgy that is reportedly in place.

Given that the situation has been brewing for quite a while with a reasonable probability of Koeman leaving we seem to have been caught with our trousers down.

At least Everton had a clear strategy and a short list with a definate preference, they were well organised and took decisive action to implement the process of bringing their new man in. Put the money to one side, they had a plan and did they ever put it into practice.

If reports are to be believed we have been lacking in our research on prospective candidate suitability and are now trawling for any random fish who maybe less fit than we need..

 

**** me!!!

[iansums]

It really does look as though the so called Southampton Way, Black Box process etc etc was not ready and prepared for RK to leave. We seem to be lost in the woods on a replacement, unable to decide with no particular short list or ready replacement in mind when RK left.

We were ill prepared for this eventuality and this time round will end up with a compromise rather than an ideal fit. Certainly it has been a surprise that we have been caught so cold considering the often heard 'giving it large' on our Black Box preparedness and stratedgy that is reportedly in place.

Given that the situation has been brewing for quite a while with a reasonable probability of Koeman leaving we seem to have been caught with our trousers down.

At least Everton had a clear strategy and a short list with a definate preference, they were well organised and took decisive action to implement the process of bringing their new man in. Put the money to one side, they had a plan and did they ever put it into practice.

If reports are to be believed we have been lacking in our research on prospective candidate suitability and are now trawling for any random fish who maybe less fit than we need..

 

Everton have had weeks more time than us. Also, the black box probably had a number of potential candidates but the club couldn't begin the process of interviewing and negotiating until Koemans departure had been confirmed. Not sure there is anything you can criticise the club for at this stage.

[buctootim]

Having watched a few Euro 16 games, you need players these days not cash because there isn't that much talent out there for any money by the looks of it. The concencus seems to be that quality is not that high these days.

Sell our good players and we will have a considerable difficulty replacing them...for any money....

 

Seems to me the lesson so far has been teamwork, hard work and organisation beats half arsed talent - a bit like Adkins used to say. Wales. NI, Iceland, Albania, Leicester etc have all over achieved recently. The main reason is desire - having too much money and too much acclaim for too long blunts your edge imo. That said Im sure the top players will rouse themselves for the big games.

[Convict Colony]

The black box identifies candidates not negotiates with them.

[baggytrousers]

Voted for Pellegrini first time around and did so again although was excited by the prospect of Garcia or FDB. Pellegrini would be a fantastic appointment but Puel or Pereira would be disasterous appointments and should be opposed. Puel's teams play dreadful football and not the type I have any interest in watching. He's only managed in France so bit hypocritical to rule out FDB for only having managed in Holland. VP has a modest CV and a volatile temperament. Huge question marks over Les Reed's future for me if either of those two are chosen. Let's hpe someone else at the club has some input and steers him towards Pellegrini.

 

Pellegrini would be a good appointment but so would the other two. We are in the enviable position of having 3 quality candidates on the shortlist. Pereira's win percentage over his 8 years of management is around the 60% mark. During his 3 years at Porto it was 70% which is pretty much the same as Mourinho during his period there although Jose did also win the UEFA Cup and Champions League with them. A record of 70% wins across 3 seasons (winning the league twice) in a league which also contains Sporting Lisbon, Benfica and Braga is no mean feat. Puel was also impressive in his spells at Monaco (winning the title) Lyon (semi-final of the Champions League) and Nice (impressive performances on a meagre budget).

 

I think Les Reed and the board are doing a fine job in narrowing it down to 3 fine candidates (4 if you include Garcia) and seem to be doing their due diligence much better than a lot of clubs would in the same position. I have faith in them eventually appointing the right manager for Saints. After all how many clubs have improved their league position for 7 seasons in a row (despite managers and players leaving and numerous "meltdowns"). Must be doing something right.

[sadoldgit]

The black box identifies candidates not negotiates with them.

 

In which case we need an upgrade then!!!

[sadoldgit]

It really does look as though the so called Southampton Way, Black Box process etc etc was not ready and prepared for RK to leave. We seem to be lost in the woods on a replacement, unable to decide with no particular short list or ready replacement in mind when RK left.

We were ill prepared for this eventuality and this time round will end up with a compromise rather than an ideal fit. Certainly it has been a surprise that we have been caught so cold considering the often heard 'giving it large' on our Black Box preparedness and stratedgy that is reportedly in place.

Given that the situation has been brewing for quite a while with a reasonable probability of Koeman leaving we seem to have been caught with our trousers down.

At least Everton had a clear strategy and a short list with a definate preference, they were well organised and took decisive action to implement the process of bringing their new man in. Put the money to one side, they had a plan and did they ever put it into practice.

If reports are to be believed we have been lacking in our research on prospective candidate suitability and are now trawling for any random fish who maybe less fit than we need..

 

And the Alpine Prize for the most negative poster on the forum of the day goes to.........

[CB Fry]

It really does look as though the so called Southampton Way, Black Box process etc etc was not ready and prepared for RK to leave. We seem to be lost in the woods on a replacement, unable to decide with no particular short list or ready replacement in mind when RK left.

We were ill prepared for this eventuality and this time round will end up with a compromise rather than an ideal fit. Certainly it has been a surprise that we have been caught so cold considering the often heard 'giving it large' on our Black Box preparedness and stratedgy that is reportedly in place.

Given that the situation has been brewing for quite a while with a reasonable probability of Koeman leaving we seem to have been caught with our trousers down.

At least Everton had a clear strategy and a short list with a definate preference, they were well organised and took decisive action to implement the process of bringing their new man in. Put the money to one side, they had a plan and did they ever put it into practice.

If reports are to be believed we have been lacking in our research on prospective candidate suitability and are now trawling for any random fish who maybe less fit than we need..

Jesus H Christ.

 

Please keep this guy away from any sharp objects.

[View From The Top]

I posted this elsewhere yesterday but since reading what has been post in L'Equipe about Garcia I'll post it here as well. Take or leave it as you please I give not one fu_ck.

 

As some of you will know I ride on a semi-regular basis with a senior figure at Stoke and an individual connected to MCFC but who is also involved in NW football in general in a legal capacity.

 

I've been out with them today.

 

I've asked about rumours/gossip about our new manager and neither knew **** all saying that they only knew what they read in the DT knowing that the club has a pet in Wilson.

I asked about RK and we know most of what has happened so I'll not go over that again. They did say, however, that there had been a real issue moving forward over transfers and RKs contract. In short, RK had been allowed to basicially sign whoever he wanted, something he insisted on when arriving, hence Pelle, Tadic, Caise and VVD and RK wanted to have complete autonomy to continue with that and the club, wary of this approach, had said no and this, combined with the "pathway" couldn't be sorted.

They also said that it was an open secret that RK had thought he'd taken Saints as far as he could and his stock will climb further if he improves EFC, which anyone could do, and that within 2 years he'll be at a CL club, even though what he really wants is Barca, but he may need to prove himself in the CL before he gets his dream job.

[angelman]

And the Alpine Prize for the most negative poster on the forum of the day goes to.........

 

The day is still young....

[buctootim]

I posted this elsewhere yesterday but since reading what has been post in L'Equipe about Garcia I'll post it here as well. Take or leave it as you please I give not one fu_ck.

 

Committees are supposedly safer than individuals but shut out individual brilliance. Most of our best signings recently seem to have been RKs. The big question is how many of our turkeys like Gaston, Osvaldo, Forren etc were also one man (hello Mr Cortese!! ) and how many were down the black box committee.

[saintmonkey1979]

Or just give him one.

Surely there are better ways to cheer him up than that! [emoji47] [emoji6]

[angelman]

I posted this elsewhere yesterday but since reading what has been post in L'Equipe about Garcia I'll post it here as well. Take or leave it as you please I give not one fu_ck.

 

Re taking SFC as far as possible, EFC and his CV, I have seen this said elsewhere, so don't doubt what you say might well be the case (might as who knows what goes on). To that end, EFC is perfect. And with Saints, if we have an unambitious manager who thinks he can't do any better, then best he leaves and follows his ambitions elsewhere. Ambitious / ambitions - funny things really.

[Saint Billy]

Perhaps we need to upgrade the black box to the bluetooth version.

[Gingeletiss]

Perhaps we need to upgrade the black box to the bluetooth version.

 

 

You do know, that the black box, is actually a room. Hth.

[St Chalet]

If Koeman hadn't ****ed around in the middle of the season we could have finished 4th

[Pilchards]

This black box thingy is something that I have invented myself on my laptop.

 

I load up excel and on that I have manager names, age, wins percentage and availability.

I then hit sort by putting the highest wins % at the top.

 

Then I look at the top three and think they will do a good job for Saints in my correct age range of 45- 52

 

Simples.

[Saint Garrett]

Not sure why we pretend this "black box" is anything other than a database. Sure we're not the only club who has one...

[Forester]

The day is still young....

 

It is now being reported in France (l'equipe) that Rudi Garcia refused our offer of managing Southampton. 2 reasons are being quoted:

1-He cannot bring more than 2 assisstants with him

2-The way the club operates on recruitment.

Is it our recruitment policy or the way the club is structured (transfer committee)?

 

I guess at the end of the day, it depends how much we want him. Either we bend over to give him what he wants, either we get look elesewhere and find someone prepared to work under these conditions.

 

Didn't we give Ronald more liberty on recruitment (Tadic, Pelle, Martina, Van Dijk) signings.

Maybe the fact that we were already recruiting Redmond with no manager in place doesn't suit him.

 

I would have thought that, given average tenure of Premier League manger now is less than two years, it would be crazy to hand over recruitment decisions lock, stock and barrel to a 1st team manager. They should be able to recommend, and also to veto, but not to just go freestyle. Our success over recent years has transcended four managers who in their different ways have all done a good job under Les Reed. More of the same please

[Gingeletiss]

There is nothing quite so cutthroat about the “Black Box” at Staplewood, but it is a centrepiece of the new development and absolutely critical to how the club works these days.

 

The room itself houses a large screen, which can quickly and easily access video clips and statistics of virtually any player in world football.It is used for one-on-one first team analysis, for player audits, where the club identify areas that require strengthening and make decisions about who will stay and go as they look to keep the path clear for young players to progress, and, most eye catchingly, for the manager to decide where to spend the club’s money in the transfer windows.

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/11582234.display/

[Winchester Red]

Ambition is a funny thing

 

'RK feels he has taken the club as far as he can'

 

To me that shows the limits of RK Ambitions (and abilities come to that), not the clubs

 

The club wants to go further, but RK thinks he's taken it as far as he can.

 

Fine. Wave goodbye (for a safer shore) and let's find a new captain with a bit more faith in his own ability to meet the challenge

[Toadhall Saint]

Ambition is a funny thing

 

'RK feels he has taken the club as far as he can'

 

To me that shows the limits of RK Ambitions (and abilities come to that), not the clubs

 

The club wants to go further, but RK thinks he's taken it as far as he can.

 

Fine. Wave goodbye (for a safer shore) and let's find a new captain with a bit more faith in his own ability to meet the challenge

 

Like

[Saint Billy]

There is nothing quite so cutthroat about the “Black Box” at Staplewood, but it is a centrepiece of the new development and absolutely critical to how the club works these days.

 

The room itself houses a large screen, which can quickly and easily access video clips and statistics of virtually any player in world football.It is used for one-on-one first team analysis, for player audits, where the club identify areas that require strengthening and make decisions about who will stay and go as they look to keep the path clear for young players to progress, and, most eye catchingly, for the manager to decide where to spend the club’s money in the transfer windows.

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/11582234.display/

 

Yeh yeh, but does it have bluetooth?.

[eelpie]

Committees are supposedly safer than individuals but shut out individual brilliance. Most of our best signings recently seem to have been RKs. The big question is how many of our turkeys like Gaston, Osvaldo, Forren etc were also one man (hello Mr Cortese!! ) and how many were down the black box committee.

 

Another black box is needed to answer that (with or without bluetooth)

[Dig Dig]

Committees are supposedly safer than individuals but shut out individual brilliance. Most of our best signings recently seem to have been RKs. The big question is how many of our turkeys like Gaston, Osvaldo, Forren etc were also one man (hello Mr Cortese!! ) and how many were down the black box committee.

 

Surely Osvaldo was more of a Poch signing since they were successful at Espanyol? And why would Cortese so out and sign Forren?! Anyway, doesn't matter now. Clearly there is no magic formula.

[DuncanRG]

I posted this elsewhere yesterday but since reading what has been post in L'Equipe about Garcia I'll post it here as well. Take or leave it as you please I give not one fu_ck.

 

Doesn't tally with the message from the club that Koeman had agreed a transfer strategy and five year plan before jumping ship.

[Pengi]

According to this report Everton chose not to appoint Pellegrini.Maybe Pellegrini's style is to be stand-offish? Who knows the truth? Edited 19 June, 2016 by Pengi

[Pamplemousse]

So why didn't the oracle himself Jack Schitt reveal the reason why Garcia was no longer an option?

[Mallagroth]

So why didn't the oracle himself Jack Schitt reveal the reason why Garcia was no longer an option?

 

You really need to get over it.

[InvictaSaint]

Two assistants seems not unreasonable, and the club would be right not to risk ripping apart the entire backroom operation every time the manager changes.

 

As for recruitment then I doubt Garcia will truly get any more autonomy at any other major club than he'd got here. The current squad has got Koeman's influence all over it - you can't tell me the black box just so happened to turn out Clasie and Tadic and Pelle and Virgil and Cuco etc etc.

 

Probably more boringly about money or a sense that the fit wasn't right on either side.

 

I liked the look of Garcia a lot but in all honesty didn't know him from Adam two weeks ago, so happy to let the club appoint the right man. As long as it isn't Eddie Howe or La Liga Hipster Relegation Boy.

 

Pretty much spot on I would say.

[Saint Billy]

Can the black box determine if a underperforming player will respond better to a different manager?.

[buctootim]

Surely Osvaldo was more of a Poch signing since they were successful at Espanyol? And why would Cortese so out and sign Forren?! Anyway, doesn't matter now. Clearly there is no magic formula.

 

Perhaps. It wasnt really pointed at Cortese, more the fairly obvious point that if you hand responsibility for transfers to a man with great contacts, personal standing and judgement you will get a better result than a committee. Hand it to a guy with great contacts, personal standing in the game but bad judgement and it will be a disaster.

Edited 19 June, 2016 by buctootim

[doddisalegend]

I would have thought that, given average tenure of Premier League manger now is less than two years, it would be crazy to hand over recruitment decisions lock, stock and barrel to a 1st team manager. They should be able to recommend, and also to veto, but not to just go freestyle. Our success over recent years has transcended four managers who in their different ways have all done a good job under Les Reed. More of the same please

 

I'm pretty sure the club have said as much in the past they want to get to a position where the manager (really just a first team coach) leaving has little effect on the team which is why there is a committee for transfers.

[Batman]

I'm pretty sure the club have said as much in the past they want to get to a position where the manager (really just a first team coach) leaving has little effect on the team which is why there is a committee for transfers.

didnt a certain man running the club get blasted by parts of the fan base for suggesting such things. Saying the 1st team coach is another head of department so to speak?

[doddisalegend]

didnt a certain man running the club get blasted by parts of the fan base for suggesting such things. Saying the 1st team coach is another head of department so to speak?

 

Not from me always thought it made perfect sense. The days of all powerful managers running all things football at clubs is waning (if not already gone) football has changed managers come and go frequently. It makes little sense to give them lots of cash to build teams full of players loyal to the manager only for them to leave or get sacked. Of course you could argue the club has clearly abandoned that policy with Koeman...

[Suhari]

Can the black box determine if a underperforming player will respond better to a different manager?.

 

I'm curious as to whether Zlatan's details are in the black box, or......

[Batman]

I wonder if talks with our preferred choice have taken place this weekend?

[nta786]

I wonder if talks with our preferred choice have taken place this weekend?

 

I thought I read somewhere that they want to hire someone by the 28th? That is when players not on international duty are back and they do that really hard fitness VO2 test thingy.

I'd have guessed interviews, talks etc would have been done at least by tomorrow

[Saint-Armstrong]

I thought I read somewhere that they want to hire someone by the 28th? That is when players not on international duty are back and they do that really hard fitness VO2 test thingy.

I'd have guessed interviews, talks etc would have been done at least by tomorrow

 

Telegraph said they were having talks this weekend didn't it? Fits in with the French bloke whose tweet was posted in this thread, who said he saw Puel flying to England on Friday morning.