Reed vs Koeman

[sadoldgit]

Ugh? You not noticed what has happened the last few years or something? The consistent thing includes Les Reed

 

It does indeed. And if you look at every club players and managers leave every year. Even Leicester are having trouble keeping hold of some of their players having won the Premiership a few weeks ago. It happens everywhere. It has happened to us a lot recently because we have become victims of our own success. I can remember when no one would have wanted any of our players or our managers. Who here would want to go back to those dark days? Enjoy the ride! We are dining at the top table again.

[david in sweden]

Firstly, I don't buy the RK argument that his move wasn't about money.......of course it was. RK also seems to be claiming that Saints don't have ambition (as he sees it).

 

In addition to his massive salary increase....he has been given a huge transfer budget obviously tempted him to consider the possibilities, whereas Saints, with rare exception, though spending a lot of transfer themselves, have never made the type of buys that could break the bank, and keep a tight hand on the purse strings.

Even when many claimed that the Shane Long deal was over the top (at the time) ....has turned out to look like " a steal " in today's market.

 

Clubs who don't have big money say that money doesn't always buy success....whereas some who do, have proven that to be correct in recent seasons.

The main difference comes down to different people's perception of the words... " success... and ambition ".

 

Rich, (or should we say) very rich investors often want " a quick fix " and the likes of Abrahamovic want success now, and have sacked some good managers along the way, when they don't deliver by the end of a season. If RK spends his (suggested) £100 million transfer budget, and does no better than his predecessor then he may be sacked by this time next year, but can cry all the way to the bank. If he never manages another side (after Everton) he'd still become a rich TV pundit.

 

Saints' "softly, softly" approach, shows the caution of a club who rose Phoenix-like from the bottom of L1 just 7 years ago, and are wary of making the same mistakes.

Both Ralph and Les, are marking time, saying ...success will come, but we haven't put a date on it. We " slow-march " onward. One season at a time.

 

RK may think that it would have been difficult to finish 5th...or better next season, whereas even he could do better for Everton than their 11th place.

Having made his choice, we will see how things turn out. He has made a " win-win " decision in his personal economy.

If Saints continue to finish above Everton in the coming seasons, we may have to re-define " success ", but RK will still be able to grin as he looks at his bank statements.

 

If " ambition " is merely getting richer.... he's already fulfilled that part.

Edited 18 June, 2016 by david in sweden

[Nordic Saint]

"after they put him where he is" Everton. I don't think Koeman will feel grateful as Reed has totally messed up his career plan, which was to finish his 3-year contract on a high with a top 4 finish and possibly even a trophy, putting him in prime spot for the Arsenal or even Barcelona job. OK, he's got a lot of money to compensate him for his thwarted ambitions but I don't think that was ever his priority and he certainly would rather have spent the next year finishing his work at Southampton than having to start all over again at Everton.

 

Some people seem to be trying to convince themselves now that Koeman was a bad manager the same as they did with Pochettino when, in fact, he was one of the best managers we ever had. We finished 7th and 6th in the Premier League with him. I'd have loved to see him stay here for another year and Koeman wanted to do that too but Les Reed has put paid to it. As for this 'lame duck' ******, it's just a red herring. The average tenure of a Premier League manager is just over one year. Players know that even if some of the posters on here don't. Getting 3 years with a top manager would have been exceptional. Does anyone seriously believe that even the next manager will see out the duration of the 5-year plan? I'd put money on it that Reed will get rid of him within 3 years.

 

I hope that we get Frank de Boer and that he is allowed to manage the team without too much interference and that we can continue the progress we made under Pochettino and Koeman. But, I'd have preferred it if Koeman had been allowed to stay for another year. The end of last season was one of the best I ever experienced in all my years as Saints fan.

[CB Fry]

"after they put him where he is" Everton. I don't think Koeman will feel grateful as Reed has totally messed up his career plan, which was to finish his 3-year contract on a high with a top 4 finish and possibly even a trophy, putting him in prime spot for the Arsenal or even Barcelona job. OK, he's got a lot of money to compensate him for his thwarted ambitions but I don't think that was ever his priority and he certainly would rather have spent the next year finishing his work at Southampton than having to start all over again at Everton.

 

Some people seem to be trying to convince themselves now that Koeman was a bad manager the same as they did with Pochettino when, in fact, he was one of the best managers we ever had. We finished 7th and 6th in the Premier League with him. I'd have loved to see him stay here for another year and Koeman wanted to do that too but Les Reed has put paid to it. As for this 'lame duck' ******, it's just a red herring. The average tenure of a Premier League manager is just over one year. Players know that even if some of the posters on here don't. Getting 3 years with a top manager would have been exceptional. Does anyone seriously believe that even the next manager will see out the duration of the 5-year plan? I'd put money on it that Reed will get rid of him within 3 years.

 

I hope that we get Frank de Boer and that he is allowed to manage the team without too much interference and that we can continue the progress we made under Pochettino and Koeman. But, I'd have preferred it if Koeman had been allowed to stay for another year. The end of last season was one of the best I ever experienced in all my years as Saints fan.

Utter drivel.

 

If Koeman was allowed to stroll through an entire season of the last year of his contract with absolutely no sign of an extension you'd be pi ssing and whining for months and months about clueless lazy bumbling Les Reed not being able to keep anyone and why aren't they trying to keep him and we're getting walked over and we're weak and just like Toby this is and blah blah fu cking blah.

 

Not entirely sure why I'm bothering to reply to you based on your usual post quality but there you go.

Edited 18 June, 2016 by CB Fry

[Nordic Saint]

The usual arrogant drivel from you.

 

Like most Saints fans, I never really expected Koeman to stay for more than 3 years and could live with that. I have never agitated for anyone to get a contract extension. I was just happy that we had a great manager for another year: a year in which I think he would have gone all out to achieve great things and then probably moved on to Arsenal or Barcelona. We might possibly have got the greatest season in our history out of that. We'll never know. I hope that the new manager does as well.

 

It's obvious I'm not a fan of Les Reed whereas you and many other fans are. I think Reed has taken the credit for the work of Paul Mitchell, who is now continuing his exceptional recruitment of players at Tottenham, and 2 fine managers who I suspect Mitchell had also picked out. I hope I'm wrong and that Reed really is the brains behind our sucess that you think he is, because I really want us to continue this spell at the top. The last 2 seasons in particular have been fantastic.

[S-Clarke]

I honestly don't see how we could have a good season when it's publicly known that the manager is off. You'd have week after week of flaming speculation, it wouldn't be that good an environment.

[SuperSAINT]

I honestly don't see how we could have a good season when it's publicly known that the manager is off. You'd have week after week of flaming speculation, it wouldn't be that good an environment.

 

Yeah, it **might** work on the continent - but it wouldn't work here at all.

[Batman]

The usual arrogant drivel from you.

 

Like most Saints fans, I never really expected Koeman to stay for more than 3 years and could live with that. I have never agitated for anyone to get a contract extension. I was just happy that we had a great manager for another year: a year in which I think he would have gone all out to achieve great things and then probably moved on to Arsenal or Barcelona. We might possibly have got the greatest season in our history out of that. We'll never know. I hope that the new manager does as well.

 

It's obvious I'm not a fan of Les Reed whereas you and many other fans are. I think Reed has taken the credit for the work of Paul Mitchell, who is now continuing his exceptional recruitment of players at Tottenham, and 2 fine managers who I suspect Mitchell had also picked out. I hope I'm wrong and that Reed really is the brains behind our sucess that you think he is, because I really want us to continue this spell at the top. The last 2 seasons in particular have been fantastic.

 

it never ever happens in this country with any success. Bar from the greatest of the all, Fergie

We were getting in the last month of last season....every single presser about his future. That would only magnify had he stayed

 

throw in long term-ism for the squad, new players etc. It just would not work

[Pamplemousse]

"after they put him where he is" Everton. I don't think Koeman will feel grateful as Reed has totally messed up his career plan, which was to finish his 3-year contract on a high with a top 4 finish and possibly even a trophy, putting him in prime spot for the Arsenal or even Barcelona job. OK, he's got a lot of money to compensate him for his thwarted ambitions but I don't think that was ever his priority and he certainly would rather have spent the next year finishing his work at Southampton than having to start all over again at Everton.

 

Some people seem to be trying to convince themselves now that Koeman was a bad manager the same as they did with Pochettino when, in fact, he was one of the best managers we ever had. We finished 7th and 6th in the Premier League with him. I'd have loved to see him stay here for another year and Koeman wanted to do that too but Les Reed has put paid to it. As for this 'lame duck' ******, it's just a red herring. The average tenure of a Premier League manager is just over one year. Players know that even if some of the posters on here don't. Getting 3 years with a top manager would have been exceptional. Does anyone seriously believe that even the next manager will see out the duration of the 5-year plan? I'd put money on it that Reed will get rid of him within 3 years.

 

I hope that we get Frank de Boer and that he is allowed to manage the team without too much interference and that we can continue the progress we made under Pochettino and Koeman. But, I'd have preferred it if Koeman had been allowed to stay for another year. The end of last season was one of the best I ever experienced in all my years as Saints fan.

 

Les Reed messed up Koeman's career :lol: :lol:

[Nordic Saint]

it never ever happens in this country with any success. Bar from the greatest of the all, Fergie

We were getting in the last month of last season....every single presser about his future. That would only magnify had he stayed

 

throw in long term-ism for the squad, new players etc. It just would not work

 

You make a valid point about the pressure of the media, Batman. I was just hoping we'd pick up at the start of next season where we left off the last one. Anyway, let's hope things turn out for the best. They did before. I was gutted when Adkins and Pochettino went too.

[Donatello]

The usual arrogant drivel from you.

 

Like most Saints fans, I never really expected Koeman to stay for more than 3 years and could live with that. I have never agitated for anyone to get a contract extension. I was just happy that we had a great manager for another year: a year in which I think he would have gone all out to achieve great things and then probably moved on to Arsenal or Barcelona. We might possibly have got the greatest season in our history out of that. We'll never know. I hope that the new manager does as well.

 

It's obvious I'm not a fan of Les Reed whereas you and many other fans are. I think Reed has taken the credit for the work of Paul Mitchell, who is now continuing his exceptional recruitment of players at Tottenham, and 2 fine managers who I suspect Mitchell had also picked out. I hope I'm wrong and that Reed really is the brains behind our sucess that you think he is, because I really want us to continue this spell at the top. The last 2 seasons in particular have been fantastic.

 

:lol:

 

Edit: To expand upon my immediate reaction, which players/excellent work are you chalking up to Mitchell at Spurs?

Edited 18 June, 2016 by Donatello

[CB Fry]

The usual arrogant drivel from you.

 

Like most Saints fans, I never really expected Koeman to stay for more than 3 years and could live with that. I have never agitated for anyone to get a contract extension. I was just happy that we had a great manager for another year: a year in which I think he would have gone all out to achieve great things and then probably moved on to Arsenal or Barcelona. We might possibly have got the greatest season in our history out of that. We'll never know. I hope that the new manager does as well.

 

It's obvious I'm not a fan of Les Reed whereas you and many other fans are. I think Reed has taken the credit for the work of Paul Mitchell, who is now continuing his exceptional recruitment of players at Tottenham, and 2 fine managers who I suspect Mitchell had also picked out. I hope I'm wrong and that Reed really is the brains behind our sucess that you think he is, because I really want us to continue this spell at the top. The last 2 seasons in particular have been fantastic.

 

Whatever. If Koeman was allowed to stay on with no extension for an entire season we all know you'd be screaming blue murder about how weak and pathetic Les Reed is for not tying him down.

 

He's gone now, which allows you to completely make up this position you now hold and well done on that. Creative at least.

 

Koeman really not anywhere near getting the Arsenal job, he'd have to have won the Europa League with us to get anywhere near it. Look who Liverpool have appointed, and Chelsea, and City and United. Koeman is just a mediocrity in that company. Barcelona is such a long shot it's untrue.

 

Keep whining on about Les. Meanwhile my club gets on and moves on and you can admire your Dutch ubergenius manager on his unstoppable march to Barcelona from afar. Boo hoo.

[silly point]

The one constant in all this - and that you cannot ignore - is Reed. Yes, we are a "selling club" and so is *everyone* else (at the right price) ... But it has got to be a little bit jarring that every year we have this parade ... And it would seem that we are the only club amongst the big 5 leagues that has togo through this level of turmoil year in and year out.

With Europa "looming" - I'd have been more excited for Europa if Koeman were to be arround - it is not hard to see ourselves into the dreaded R-vortex iif we lose our focus under our new manager and have a bad patch.

I think the coming season will be a key season in our history and the new manager will have the toughest first season ever!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CB Fry]

The one constant in all this - and that you cannot ignore - is Reed. Yes, we are a "selling club" and so is *everyone* else (at the right price) ... But it has got to be a little bit jarring that every year we have this parade ... And it would seem that we are the only club amongst the big 5 leagues that has togo through this level of turmoil year in and year out.

With Europa "looming" - I'd have been more excited for Europa if Koeman were to be arround - it is not hard to see ourselves into the dreaded R-vortex iif we lose our focus under our new manager and have a bad patch.

I think the coming season will be a key season in our history and the new manager will have the toughest first season ever!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

We sold two players last summer. Two players. What 'level of turmoil' is that?

 

I'll tell you. Pretty much fu ck all turmoil.

 

And we finished sixth.

[S-Clarke]

Fans are too gullible to the media, the media play the meltdown line every year - but we had one summer like that, one.

 

People are too influenced by media ********. Just look at the actual facts.

[silly point]

Two first teamers .. Two internationals.

Yes we finished 6th ... No complaints there but we could have easily finished in top 4, kept Koeman, attracted a few stars, and made that next step

 

 

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[Donatello]

Two first teamers .. Two internationals.

Yes we finished 6th ... No complaints there but we could have easily finished in top 4, kept Koeman, attracted a few stars, and made that next step

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Yes....easily

[CB Fry]

You'll get the close season you wish for one day, ladies.

 

One day your dream will come true.

 

No Champions League/elite level team will have any interest in taking any of our players.

 

None of them. Not one.

 

And oh what a brilliant preceding season we would had have then. I bet we would have been scintillating. Dominant probably.

 

Keep dreaming because it'll happen one summer and you'll all be dancing in the streets. Won't you?

[Donatello]

You'll get the close season you wish for one day, ladies.

 

One day your dream will come true.

 

No Champions League/elite level team will have any interest in taking any of our players.

 

None of them. Not one.

 

And oh what a brilliant preceding season we would had have then. I bet we would have been scintillating. Dominant probably.

 

Keep dreaming because it'll happen one summer and you'll all be dancing in the streets. Won't you?

 

These guys only need take a glance at Leicester...accomplishing arguably the most incredible feat of any club in PL history, and they're having to fight to keep their best players, most of whom are only a year or two into long term deals (as opposed to last years).

[Toadhall Saint]

You'll get the close season you wish for one day, ladies.

 

One day your dream will come true.

 

No Champions League/elite level team will have any interest in taking any of our players.

 

None of them. Not one.

 

And oh what a brilliant preceding season we would had have then. I bet we would have been scintillating. Dominant probably.

 

Keep dreaming because it'll happen one summer and you'll all be dancing in the streets. Won't you?

 

[emoji106][emoji122][emoji122]

[silly point]

Just sayin that we shouldnt be losing players to the likes of Tottenham and Liverpool ...

 

 

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[Portugalsaint]

Just sayin that we shouldnt be losing players to the likes of Tottenham and Liverpool ...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If we do, it's all about the money is they go north, simples.

[eelpie]

The one constant in all this - and that you cannot ignore - is Reed. Yes, we are a "selling club" and so is *everyone* else (at the right price) ... But it has got to be a little bit jarring that every year we have this parade ... And it would seem that we are the only club amongst the big 5 leagues that has togo through this level of turmoil year in and year out.

With Europa "looming" - I'd have been more excited for Europa if Koeman were to be arround - it is not hard to see ourselves into the dreaded R-vortex iif we lose our focus under our new manager and have a bad patch.

I think the coming season will be a key season in our history and the new manager will have the toughest first season ever!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

It's not an ideal scenario, what happens every summer. So far we have been very fortunate and ended the season one place higher than the year before. But what do other mid-sized clubs do that we don't? Play the same boring football and stagnate in miidtable?

Would we prefer that?

[Nordic Saint]

:lol:

 

Edit: To expand upon my immediate reaction, which players/excellent work are you chalking up to Mitchell at Spurs?

 

Sure, Donatello. Alderweireld, Wanyama, Trippier and Dele Alli, all of whom he had lined up for Saints. Paul Mitchell is a date analyst and head of recruitment. The so-called ‘Black Box’ is primarily a software package the type of which anyone can rent online for a few pounds each month. The key person is the analyst who interprets the data, and that’s Mitchell.

 

Mitchell identified potential players and managers. Pochettino and Koeman would almost certainly have been his suggestions as well as most of the player we recruited in his time here. The last one who was his was Van Dijk. He’d picked out both Alderweirled and Van Dijk the year before as replacements for Lovren, but we went for Alderweierld as did Spurs. That’s how Saints were still able to get Van Dijk after Mitchell left. Some other signings were the Koemans’: Pelle, Clasie and Martina, and several signings we made last summer, after he left, like Caulker and Steckelenburg did not have the hallmarks of Mitchell signings, being old and/or injury-prone. Mane was typical of the type of player Mitchell picked. They are under 26 and fit. His brief at Southampton appears to have been to find relatively cheap players, 2 or 3 years short of their peak, who would give us good service and could then be sold for a big profit at the end of that period. Typically, therefore, they tended to be in their early 20s.

 

Who is Paul Mitchell and why have Tottenham Hotspur prised Southampton's head of recruitment away?

Talent-spotter and analyst whose department transformed Saints this summer while banking £30 million …..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/tottenham-hotspur/11236180/Who-is-Paul-Mitchell-and-why-have-Tottenham-Hotspur-prised-Southamptons-head-of-recruitment-away.html

[Pengi]

How good is Ross Wilson, is he respected at the club? Presumably he brought in Juanmi, Cedric, Austin, Romeu?

[VectisSaint]

It's not an ideal scenario, what happens every summer. So far we have been very fortunate and ended the season one place higher than the year before. But what do other mid-sized clubs do that we don't?

Win the PL?

[ADutchSaint]

Mitchell identified potential players and managers. Pochettino and Koeman would almost certainly have been his suggestions as well as most of the player we recruited in his time here. The last one who was his was Van Dijk. He’d picked out both Alderweirled and Van Dijk the year before as replacements for Lovren, but we went for Alderweierld as did Spurs. That’s how Saints were still able to get Van Dijk after Mitchell left.

 

Firstly how do you know? Cause its not a secret that Southampton tried to buy van Dijk in a package deal with Forster but Celtic didnt want to sell Van Dijk after 1 season and then they went for Toby.

 

And i've said this before on here but Koeman has known van Dijk for years and way before he got any radars from clubs cause his father was the headscout at Groningen for young players in Holland and basically brought Virgil to Groningen from Willem 2. Im sure Virgil was on some kind of list already but Koeman has liked him (and Tadic for example) the moment they destroyed his Feyenoord (with Vlaar, Clasie, Indi, De Vrij) with 6-0 and has known everything about Virgil and Tadic because of his father.

 

Virgil would have been playing at Southampton no matter who head of recruitment was, i can guarantee you that.