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Ronald Koeman Joins Everton - CONFIRMED

Jimmy_D

By Jimmy_D,
in The Saints

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Shance

Shance

Posted
Posted
depends whether you actually save the wages by taking compensation. many times over the years i've heard that players get their contracts paid up when they are sold.

 

as i mentioned on another forum, the club were not budgeting for £5m compensation. The club were budgeting to spend £3.5m a year without receiving compensation.

 

If we stood to be relieved of RK's wages by selling him then by keeping him on garden leave we are burning £2m for one year against a minimum of three years for the next managerial contract isn't huge and still leaves us with a healthy budget of around £2.8m for the new manager's contract based on the same spending.

 

I haven't budgeted for JK or EK because I've no idea what they are being paid.

 

There's no way the club didn't buget for compensation. That's by the by when signing a manager under contract.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
Many big companies now have senior directors on three year rolling contracts rather than as per enact employees

If they want to leave to a competitor in the middle of a three year contract both sides can agree to mutually terminate the contract or, if the company wants to, it can put the director on gardening leave till the contract runs out

This is very much like a player/ manager situation

 

 

Except it very rarely happens with football managers.

 

It does happen in the case of some kind of investigation (Dave Jones) and there's a similar thing when managers get sacked they will continue to be paid compensation but that stops if they get another job which is why you often see managers taking a break after a sacking. But gardening leave as you get with chief execs is not a thing in football.

 

The other factor to consider is if we appoint another manager while RK is on gardening leave that could be interpreted as constructive dismissal/breach of contract as there is no good, objective reason for RK to be on gardening leave (ie he isn't ill/depressed/under investigation for historic abuse).

 

Really can't see it.

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sotonist

sotonist

Posted
Posted

Interesting article regarding Garden Leave and football managers

http://www.lawinsport.com/articles/item/football-manager-contracts-of-employment-an-analysis-of-key-clauses-for-clubs-to-consider-part-2

A Club can attempt to hold a Manager who is being courted by a rival Club to his contractual notice period (or to the end of his fixed term, if the Contract is expressed in that way). However, in such circumstances, relationships will often become strained, and the Manager’s current Club will typically not want the Manager to remain involved in the team’s day-to-day affairs. In such circumstances, and provided the Manager’s Contract contains the appropriate provisions, his Club can seek to place him on “garden leave”. English courts are reluctant, on grounds of public policy, to allow employers (including Clubs) to put their employees on garden leave for periods longer than six to twelve months1. However, the tactic of placing a Manager on garden leave is commonly used to delay the Manager’s departure to the rival Club, and to increase the compensation being offered for him, rather than stopping his move happening at all.

 

The effectiveness of this strategy was seen in 2001, in the case of Steve Bruce, who wanted to leave Crystal Palace to join Birmingham City. Less than a year into his Palace Contract (which, amongst other things, provided for a nine-month notice period, and also contained a garden leave clause), Bruce attempted to resign with immediate effect, but Palace rejected that resignation (which would have amounted to a breach of contract), and sought to keep the Contract alive, by continuing to pay Bruce and honouring the Club’s contractual obligations to him. Palace sought an injunction from the High Court to enforce Bruce’s garden leave provision against him and, on the facts of that case, that injunction was granted2. Less than a month later, Palace did allow Bruce to join Birmingham, but only after Birmingham had increased their offer of compensation (allegedly from £250k to nearer the £1m Palace wanted)3.

 

An almost identical scenario played out in 2003 when Alan Pardew sought to leave Reading to join West Ham United. In that case, a deal was agreed at the door of the court, pursuant to which Pardew agreed to (i) remain on garden leave for a month, (ii) not employ any of Reading’s staff or players until the end of the season, and (iii) give an undertaking not to use or disclose Reading’s confidential information. West Ham also agreed to pay Reading compensation of £380k4.

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sadoldgit

sadoldgit

Posted
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The bit about disclosing confidential information is what bothers me. Koeman will know all about our transfer targets and our position on our own squad. Given his clear lack of integrity who would trust him not to say anything to his new employers about our plans for next season?

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Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

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The bit about disclosing confidential information is what bothers me. Koeman will know all about our transfer targets and our position on our own squad. Given his clear lack of integrity who would trust him not to say anything to his new employers about our plans for next season?

 

There's nothing to stop him, that's part of the reason for the compensation.

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Miltonaggro

Miltonaggro

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We never had to, it was perceived wisdom by many (and rightly so) until this whole affair started.

 

 

 

I'm in my late 30s. In person during that time, i.e. actually at the matches, I've seen my team win 2 league titles, 1 FA Cup, 1 European trophy and numerous Charity Shields. In the last 30 years, I've watched my team in 4 FA Cup Finals, 5 FA Cup semi finals and 3 two-legged League Cup semis. I've seen my team play at Wembley in key domestic games 8 times.

 

In the last 10 years alone, my team has finished in the top 7 in 7 out of the past 10 seasons. During that time, my team has been in 1 FA Cup Final, 3 FA Cup Semis & 2 two-legged League Cup semis.

 

Now I really don't care whether any of you think we're big or small, but over the past decade (a better barometer than 'the last 2 years') - okay we've not won anything, but we've been close several times, and we've be in and around the key moments of numerous competitions. I don't think many other 'mid-table' teams can claim that sort of record of the past 10 years. It's somewhat bizarre that you don't see us as a 'significant entity'. This past season alone, we were shown live on tv 21 times, the 7th most of any team in the league. Southampton were shown 14 times. The top 7 most shown clubs this past season were Arsenal, Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs and Everton. TV companies pick the most significant (biggest?) teams to show live, that's a fact.

 

For middle aged Southampton fans you were the Leicester City of the 80s, for those under thirty you are a northern Aston Villa. One interesting historical fact is that Adolf Hitler lived in Liverpool before the First World War, obviously a fertile breeding ground for pathological entitlement, irrational delusion, and historical selectivity - though it's difficult to decide which team he supported.

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whelk

whelk

Posted
Posted
Unlike K-Billy, Everton's ITKer is pretty confident that things are going to plan and the news flow will start Monday.

 

Are we ever had a rival mongboard ITK-off?

 

Any chance of putting this in English pal?

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ENSKIED

ENSKIED

Posted
Posted
For middle aged Southampton fans you were the Leicester City of the 80s, for those under thirty you are a northern Aston Villa. One interesting historical fact is that Adolf Hitler lived in Liverpool before the First World War, obviously a fertile breeding ground for pathological entitlement, irrational delusion, and historical selectivity - though it's difficult to decide which team he supported.

 

Not historical "fact" MA, more historical contention. However, that said one source claims that "when" living in the Pool, da "one day to be" Führer always seemed happier the days when Liverpool won a game. He obviously had some style and taste. ;)

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Donatello

Donatello

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Posted
We never had to, it was perceived wisdom by many (and rightly so) until this whole affair started.

 

 

 

I'm in my late 30s. In person during that time, i.e. actually at the matches, I've seen my team win 2 league titles, 1 FA Cup, 1 European trophy and numerous Charity Shields. In the last 30 years, I've watched my team in 4 FA Cup Finals, 5 FA Cup semi finals and 3 two-legged League Cup semis. I've seen my team play at Wembley in key domestic games 8 times.

 

In the last 10 years alone, my team has finished in the top 7 in 7 out of the past 10 seasons. During that time, my team has been in 1 FA Cup Final, 3 FA Cup Semis & 2 two-legged League Cup semis.

 

Now I really don't care whether any of you think we're big or small, but over the past decade (a better barometer than 'the last 2 years') - okay we've not won anything, but we've been close several times, and we've be in and around the key moments of numerous competitions. I don't think many other 'mid-table' teams can claim that sort of record of the past 10 years. It's somewhat bizarre that you don't see us as a 'significant entity'. This past season alone, we were shown live on tv 21 times, the 7th most of any team in the league. Southampton were shown 14 times. The top 7 most shown clubs this past season were Arsenal, Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs and Everton. TV companies pick the most significant (biggest?) teams to show live, that's a fact.

 

I'd call that a relative failure when you consider that you were the first team to have dugouts. How the mighty have fallen.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

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Posted (edited)

Interesting.

 

Certainly a possible explanation for Ron's extended holiday and seeming to not be that desperate to charge up the M6 to join that gigantic club of the north with their global historic reputation of being the first club in the world to have hot and cold running water.

 

However, I do think a there can be a bit too much made of players hating the manager. It's not necessarily a bad thing, as is the opposite. Everyone seems to love Stuart Gray and Steve McClaren.

Edited by CB Fry
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Dig Dig

Dig Dig

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Ties in with snippets frm k-billy as well like the gardening leave hint from yesterday.

 

If true about Koemans lack of effort and willingless to engage in club priorities, will be good all round in the long run that he's off. As long as it isn't just an internal smear campaign which I doubt it is as it mostly all makes sense.

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shurlock

shurlock

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Posted (edited)

 

Interesting. On the surface very comprehensive and rich with detail.

 

Not sure what to make of that myself. ITKers generally only present snippets since (i) they only have one source who's unlikely to be informed of the whole picture themselves and (ii) information is selectively given, not shared on request. In particular, it rarely forms a nice neat narrative that uncannily answers all supporters burning questions.

Edited by shurlock
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Verbal Kint

Verbal Kint

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A lot of it sounds about right but I really don't understand this gardening leave thing. Everton are prepared to make RK one of the best paid managers in the world and give him an enormous budget, but yet they can't agree a contract for his assistant? Equally, are we even sure that this no poaching clause is legal? How do you enforce it?

 

It just seems like Everton are desperate for RK (hence the money on offer) and I'm struggling to believe minor things like this would stop a deal being done

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

Posted
Posted (edited)
Interesting. Incredibly comprehensive and rich with detail.

 

Not sure what to make of that myself. ITKers generally only present snippets since (i) they only have one source who's unlikely to be informed of the whole picture (ii) information is selectively given, not shared on request. In particular, it rarely forms a nice neat narrative that uncannily answers all supporters questions.

 

It does seem to collect all the (alleged) ITK snippets that have popped up on here in one nice narrative...

Edited by doddisalegend
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Gingar

Gingar

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I think that piece mainly adds up, but why if his job was (possibly) only saved by Pelle getting injured and is not well liked by many players and many members of the board is he being offered a new contract? Other than that ties into what KBSS and Guan have hinted at and also what we can actually see happening

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um pahars

um pahars

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As funny as it would be, I'm not sure it's 100% true.

 

 

My Pacific Close, Ocean Village source can confirm that Jan K is not at all happy with the situation, so that part stacks up.

 

And another source (same one who let me know about the kit & Virgin being our sponsors-ask Steve Grant as I gave him the heads up before it was announced!!) has also said they didn't want RK just seeing out his last year & if he wasn't going to sign then they would have a difficult situation to manage. However, that situation will become easier if RK walks and so it is seen as a win win (but they also haven't given up hope of him staying if he signs the extension).

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

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I think that piece mainly adds up, but why if his job was (possibly) only saved by Pelle getting injured and is not well liked by many players and many members of the board is he being offered a new contract? Other than that ties into what KBSS and Guan have hinted at and also what we can actually see happening

 

Is a bit of a mystery isn't it? He has wasn't doing anything he was told, players hate him he was stopping all our youth top talent from breaking into the first team yet the club offer him a new contract?

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um pahars

um pahars

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Posted
A lot of it sounds about right but I really don't understand this gardening leave thing. Everton are prepared to make RK one of the best paid managers in the world and give him an enormous budget, but yet they can't agree a contract for his assistant? Equally, are we even sure that this no poaching clause is legal? How do you enforce it?

 

It just seems like Everton are desperate for RK (hence the money on offer) and I'm struggling to believe minor things like this would stop a deal being done

 

So what is stopping the deal being done???

 

logistics, holidays etc is a smokescreen as fax machines or jetting out an employee/agent/lawyer to deliver the contract is small fry £££ in a multi million deal???

 

I certainly would not rule out RK not being 100% convinced on the move!!

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Pamplemousse

Pamplemousse

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My Pacific Close, Ocean Village source can confirm that Jan K is not at all happy with the situation, so that part stacks up.

 

And another source (same one who let me know about the kit & Virgin being our sponsors-ask Steve Grant as I gave him the heads up before it was announced!!) has also said they didn't want RK just seeing out his last year & if he wasn't going to sign then they would have a difficult situation to manage. However, that situation will become easier if RK walks and so it is seen as a win win (but they also haven't given up hope of him staying if he signs the extension).

 

The bit about Jan certainly I can believe. Judging by his Twitter he seems to have built up a real rapport with both the fans and the local area.

 

But as someone else mentioned, it's the whole long winded post that makes me skeptical. It's normally snippets here, snippets there, not long winded posts that answer everyone's questions in one go.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

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Posted
Interesting. On the surface very comprehensive and rich with detail.

 

Not sure what to make of that myself. ITKers generally only present snippets since (i) they only have one source who's unlikely to be informed of the whole picture (ii) information is selectively given, not shared on request. In particular, it rarely forms a nice neat narrative that uncannily answers all supporters lingering questions.

I'd suggest on previous form on other topics, that particular contributor is something of a self-aggrandising conspiro-loon so some salt required.

 

As you say it's all a bit too neat and tidy.

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shurlock

shurlock

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Posted
I'd suggest on previous form on other topics, that particular contributor is something of a self-aggrandising conspiro-loon so some salt required.

 

As you say it's all a bit too neat and tidy.

 

Yep, here and there it has the flourishes and elaborateness of Crab Lungs 2014 barnstormer.

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OldNick

OldNick

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Posted
We never had to, it was perceived wisdom by many (and rightly so) until this whole affair started.

 

 

 

I'm in my late 30s. In person during that time, i.e. actually at the matches, I've seen my team win 2 league titles, 1 FA Cup, 1 European trophy and numerous Charity Shields. In the last 30 years, I've watched my team in 4 FA Cup Finals, 5 FA Cup semi finals and 3 two-legged League Cup semis. I've seen my team play at Wembley in key domestic games 8 times.

 

In the last 10 years alone, my team has finished in the top 7 in 7 out of the past 10 seasons. During that time, my team has been in 1 FA Cup Final, 3 FA Cup Semis & 2 two-legged League Cup semis.

 

Now I really don't care whether any of you think we're big or small, but over the past decade (a better barometer than 'the last 2 years') - okay we've not won anything, but we've been close several times, and we've be in and around the key moments of numerous competitions. I don't think many other 'mid-table' teams can claim that sort of record of the past 10 years. It's somewhat bizarre that you don't see us as a 'significant entity'. This past season alone, we were shown live on tv 21 times, the 7th most of any team in the league. Southampton were shown 14 times. The top 7 most shown clubs this past season were Arsenal, Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs and Everton. TV companies pick the most significant (biggest?) teams to show live, that's a fact.

Well you can always guarantee Everton will be shown live in 2 games as the now overrated derby game is fed to us. In the 70's it was really a blood and thunder game now, they shake hands and keep saying sorry every time they make a tackle. Everton are a bigger club but only on par with Villa and Newcastle. we are in the next bunch
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SuperSAINT

SuperSAINT

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Posted
My Pacific Close, Ocean Village source can confirm that Jan K is not at all happy with the situation, so that part stacks up.

 

Interesting. So lets assume there might be some truth to this story - Might be clutching at straws, but Guan did say this when the Koeman news was coming out:

 

Have info, very limited in what i can say. Very regrettable.

 

 

 

And another source (same one who let me know about the kit & Virgin being our sponsors-ask Steve Grant as I gave him the heads up before it was announced!!) has also said they didn't want RK just seeing out his last year & if he wasn't going to sign then they would have a difficult situation to manage. However, that situation will become easier if RK walks and so it is seen as a win win (but they also haven't given up hope of him staying if he signs the extension).

 

This part I can certainly believe. Guan indicated a long time ago that he showed no inclination to extend his deal any longer - And that certainly would have caused it's own instability.

 

I believe Guan also said something about not being surprised if the board replaced him in the summer:

 

As for the reasoning, as i speculated on a different thread, perhaps the club are getting nowhere in Koeman negotiations and want to ease in a new manager rather than let him see out his contract, which would mean no certainty for the players, and hoping a good coach/manager suddenly becomes available at the end of season.

 

What i know: Ronald is perfectly happy to stay for his last contracted year, but is always hesitant about adding more, which was most evident in the middle of our bad form where the board presented him with a list of on-going concerns. Nothing has indicated he's jumping at the chance to add to his time here after that.

 

Speculation begins: I wouldn't be surprised if the board replace him in the summer, as an outgoing manager rarely inspires great displays of player commitment.

 

Very tricky to know exactly what's happened - Maybe he took the money? Maybe he used them as a bargaining chip & it failed?

 

What looks set in stone is that he's off. Maybe the story will come out after he actually leaves.

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted (edited)
The bit about Jan certainly I can believe. Judging by his Twitter he seems to have built up a real rapport with both the fans and the local area.

 

But as someone else mentioned, it's the whole long winded post that makes me skeptical. It's normally snippets here, snippets there, not long winded posts that answer everyone's questions in one go.

Jan is our next manager, you've read it here....not new info btw

 

How it MIGHT play out.

Jan shows indignation that RK has jumped, that brings the fans onboard, The club keep the compo and have a cheap replacement

Probably ****** but you do get cynical after a while

 

AVB for me

Edited by OldNick
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beatlesaint

beatlesaint

Posted
Posted
Interesting

 

I would have thought Koeman would have got quite a bit of support from the fans for this bit though

 

It wasn't so much about the personal money on offer, but more with getting more to spend on new players than was on offer -- and forcing Sadio Mane to stay again against his will

 

Fair point although ironic if Sadio is happy to stay cos RK has gone !

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