No other club loses it key personnel consistently

[angelman]

So what about Leicester? It will be interesting to see what happens but it looks like Vardy is going to be off within the next day or two along with Mahrez and Kante. And they won the PL and have CL football. There. That puts things into perspective. IF (and I suppose as it hasn't happened yet it might not) that happens then that beats us losing all of those players and personnel. Maybe if does happen to LCFC, then the scales will fall from peoples' eyes and they will see football finance for what it is.

[nta786]

So what about Leicester? It will be interesting to see what happens but it looks like Vardy is going to be off within the next day or two along with Mahrez and Kante. And they won the PL and have CL football. There. That puts things into perspective. IF (and I suppose as it hasn't happened yet it might not) that happens then that beats us losing all of those players and personnel. Maybe if does happen to LCFC, then the scales will fall from peoples' eyes and they will see football finance for what it is.

 

They should get around £80m-100m for those three- I wonder if say, they were to sell those three, they'd spend just the money raised or if they would have a net spend.

 

Not that it matters too much, quality over quantity

[Matthew Le God]

The time to worry is not when other clubs want your players/managers, its when they don't want them. As that is a sign of a decline in quality.

[Batman]

The time to worry is not when other clubs want your players/managers, its when they don't want them. As that is a sign of a decline in quality.

 

is it like when we courted Caulker. And the signed him?

[ALWAYS_SFC]

is it like when we courted Caulker. And the signed him?

 

When we sign our new manager are you going to say Koeman is better as you always praise other teams

[Mallagroth]

Still don't get why everyone is so upset. The timing of this is absolutely perfect for the club. We are in highest ever league position with a European group spot, players that are being hyped up in the media and could have standout tournaments in their international roles that we don't need to sell. We will never be in a better position than now to get a manager who would have turned his nose up at the thought of our club even 3 years ago.

 

If Koeman is leaving, Saints are letting him go and it's the right decision for everyone. Good luck to the man he has been one of our best ever but he isn't our best option to break the ceiling. (I like many others didn't believe we could ever be a regular top 10 side again, so if this board says top 4 is the aim, then I believe that we can do it. The Liebherrs have consistently delivered excellence since they took over and it has no reason to stop now. Our success isn't luck based on recent prem years go back to the day we were taken over, that is your proof, from there to now how many missteps have really been taken by the leaders of the club.

Edited 4 June, 2016 by Mallagroth

[SW5 SAINT]

Leicester City didn't do too badly with a new manager last season. I think the shelf life most managers is only about two or three years, with a couple of notable exceptions.

[Saint Without a Halo]

Still don't get why everyone is so upset. The timing of this is absolutely perfect for the club. We are in highest ever league position with a European group spot, players that are being hyped up in the media and could have standout tournaments in their international roles that we don't need to sell. We will never be in a better position than now to get a manager who would have turned his nose up at the thought of our club even 3 years ago.

 

If Koeman is leaving, Saints are letting him go and it's the right decision for everyone. Good luck to the man he has been one of our best ever but he isn't our best option to break the ceiling. (I like many others didn't believe we could ever be a regular top 10 side again, so if this board says top 4 is the aim, then I believe that we can do it. The Liebherrs have consistently delivered excellence since they took over and it has no reason to stop now. Our success isn't luck based on recent prem years go back to the day we were taken over, that is your proof, from there to now how many missteps have really been taken by the leaders of the club.

 

Agreed our managers have been good but not all the recent success is entirely down to them as our back room staff perform very well

A fact always missed by the press who believe that all success and failure is down to the manager alone

[DuncanRG]

Still don't get why everyone is so upset. The timing of this is absolutely perfect for the club. We are in highest ever league position with a European group spot, players that are being hyped up in the media and could have standout tournaments in their international roles that we don't need to sell. We will never be in a better position than now to get a manager who would have turned his nose up at the thought of our club even 3 years ago.

 

If Koeman is leaving, Saints are letting him go and it's the right decision for everyone. Good luck to the man he has been one of our best ever but he isn't our best option to break the ceiling. (I like many others didn't believe we could ever be a regular top 10 side again, so if this board says top 4 is the aim, then I believe that we can do it. The Liebherrs have consistently delivered excellence since they took over and it has no reason to stop now. Our success isn't luck based on recent prem years go back to the day we were taken over, that is your proof, from there to now how many missteps have really been taken by the leaders of the club.

 

It's pretty clear Saints wanted to keep him, and would therefore have seen him as the best option, but otherwise I'm with you.

[the saint in winchester]

The time to worry is not when other clubs want your players/managers, its when they don't want them. As that is a sign of a decline in quality.

 

Very sage comment there, MLG. Up to know, we have been a showcase club (Les' expression). Seems Koeman wasn't on board with that.

[Portugalsaint]

Personally I don't think Everton have been that ambitious with this appointment. If they are paying him the salary of a elite level manager then why didn't they go for an actual elite level manager.

 

This is such a valid point.

[The9]

Never really said there was a problem

 

Just curious why it happens

 

Because we're good, and don't have the money that the clubs who buy our players do. I used to think it was about status, and trophies, and Europe, and stuff like that, but we're potentially losing a manager to a club in the bottom half who are claiming to have a decent wedge, and which doesn't even look like a career progression, so it's clearly just about money.

 

Having said that, we have got lots more money than we did have, so managing that correctly and with some players on old deals for a while we could still challenge. We're no worse off squad-wise than the past 2 seasons and have just come 6th, so fundamentally the infrastructure and recruitment are doing their jobs.

[The9]

is it like when we courted Caulker. And the signed him?

 

Nah, that was a short-term loan to cover injuries. And even then Liverpool were still pleased to get him - in the exact same circumstances.

[The9]

Very sage comment there, MLG. Up to know, we have been a showcase club (Les' expression). Seems Koeman wasn't on board with that.

 

Seems "lack of investment" is always a problem when managers get offers of more money from somewhere else. We invested well enough to get into the top 6, and spent more than the team that won the League.

[OldNick]

Still don't get why everyone is so upset. The timing of this is absolutely perfect for the club. We are in highest ever league position with a European group spot, players that are being hyped up in the media and could have standout tournaments in their international roles that we don't need to sell. We will never be in a better position than now to get a manager who would have turned his nose up at the thought of our club even 3 years ago.

 

If Koeman is leaving, Saints are letting him go and it's the right decision for everyone. Good luck to the man he has been one of our best ever but he isn't our best option to break the ceiling. (I like many others didn't believe we could ever be a regular top 10 side again, so if this board says top 4 is the aim, then I believe that we can do it. The Liebherrs have consistently delivered excellence since they took over and it has no reason to stop now. Our success isn't luck based on recent prem years go back to the day we were taken over, that is your proof, from there to now how many missteps have really been taken by the leaders of the club.

What are you talking about. It is not our highest ever league position, we finished 2nd in the top league of English football in a lot of our fans lifetime. The PL is just a fabricated rehash of the old Division 1 that they tried to make sexy for Sky and television. We were in the top league for 27 years. Football is for life not just the PL. Oh and we qualified for Europe quite a few times before the PL as well

[Redslo]

I hope the people who believe that change has only improved us are right.....another 5 managerial changes and we've got the PL title in the bag.

 

By my calculations it should only require three more.

 

I think the club need to review its policies tbh. Can't keep losing people like this every year. People say we've improved but Koeman is only appointment since Cortese and sold his best players and improved us. Don't think anyone will be able to match it but hope I'm wrong.

 

Exactly what policy is the club supposed to change. Liebherr appears to want the club to operate within its own means and, presumably, is unwilling to kick in the 8 million pounds a year allowed under EUFA's financial fair play regulations--much less the 35 million allowed under the Premier Leagues rules. This means that there will never be a 100 million pound transfer kitty here. That is not really a policy that can be changed. (And I am skeptical that Everton will really put in 100 million pounds over and above what they get for Lukaku and Stones.)

 

Genuine question: we have been top 8 in the PL for the last 3 seasons. Do we act like we belong in that upper portion of the league? Or do we act like we are overachieving and are pleasantly suprised to be there?

 

I vote both.

 

A mega rich owner is not sustainable growth as once the cost base has been lifted artificially it leaves the club in big trouble if the owner decides to move on and he cannot be replaced with another of equally deep pockets that is why financial fair trade has been brought in to ensure clubs spend within their means

 

The way to spend more is to increase commercial growth and this is precisely what Ralf and the FD are there to oversee

Therefore any investment needs to be sensible and in parallel to commercial growth not instead of it also it must comply with FFP

 

Everton appear prepared to gamble the clubs future we are not! Look what happened to Blackburn Wigan and Pompey once their investment slowed and dried up

 

This is an important point. If Everton really spends massively on players this summer they will raise their payroll significantly. Even assuming they can keep it under the Premier League payroll cap, this will be permanent increase. New players will expect to be paid more just because the players who are already they are getting paid more. Will their new rich partial owner keep putting in the money and will it be possible to keep things within the financial fair player rules? Maybe, but if I were an Everton fan I would be concerned in the long run.

 

The title of the thread is the important thing to focus on here. We do have an alarming issue with losing key personnel consistently causing major upheaval and unbalancing the structure and continuity of the team. Whilst Les has directed replacement choice well the point is he appears to be poor at man management resulting in people looking to move away rather too often now. Whilst we get a lot right we get a lot wrong too. I would keep Les in a re recruitment role at the club but take him out of the contract negotiation role which is evidently not his skill set. I would also distance him from team affairs as he appears to have a negative effect there which is back to man management.

In fact I would IF this develops into another player exodus the Les needs replacing all together...

The Five Year plan cannot possibly include another two

Or three major upheaval, that is obvious.

Our luck will run out as will team/club spirit. For me, there is always evolution in a business but not continuous churn of key management and staff on our scale. A more focused role for Les would be good and take him out of the 'General Manager' position.

Les has become quite conceited and arrogant now and this is not a behaviour which fits with the major privileged roll he has at the club....

His skill is recruitment not negotiating, harmony and General Management.

Sorry Les but this recurring theme must lead to a review of your role at the club.

 

I cannot prove your unsupported claims wrong, but I suspect you cannot prove them correct. The turnover here is a result of doing well without being both a rich club and a regular champions league participant. Do you really thing a better negotiator would have gotten Clyne or Schneiderlin to sign new contracts? As for Koeman, we will have to see what happens, but if he really wants a 7 million pounds a year salary and a net spend of 100 million pounds this summer no one could keep him here because both of those are beyond the sustainable system Liebherr seems to want.

 

That being said, I do not claim that Reed is perfect. But consider his likely reaction if he were arbitrarily demoted after producing such good results year and year under difficult circumstances. We would be looking for a replacement for him and people like you would be even more alarmed.

 

 

H

 

I am sure revenue wise we arent far behind our peers? Even Everton are only just ahead of us. With the new kit deal etc we will make up some ground. The big six though are miles ahead..hundreds of millions ahead and that gap will only ever close if someone is prepared to plug the gap between the investment required to win things and the commercial revenue catch up as new people round the world start buying SFC products. It worked for Man City and Chelsea who have both done it, joining Man U arsenal etc for revenue but it has cost the owners approx 1 billion to do it.

The Everton guy isn't going to invest that and I don't think Kat has that sort of money anyway.

We haven't really got a choice other than continue a path of steady growth. It's annoying that some one else gets an investment and so jumps you again for a while but ours is a long term strategy. It's worked so far and I don't think anything I say will change it..not got a billion on me at present.

 

The internet thinks she does have that kind of money, but under Financial Fair Play it is not allowed anymore anyway.

 

Agreeing with Saint-Armstrong's sensible assessment. The 'top' clubs have the financial muscle to pick off players (and managers) who perform well at any other Premier club so under the system as it operate, successful teams will lose personnel to the rich clubs. We've been successful so our people became targets and financially we are not able to keep them. We have to play the game our way by trying to be being more clever over our recruitment. It's not just Southampton, as shown by the Arsenal bid for Vardy. What it does show is that Financial Fair Play is written on paper that would be best flushed down the toilet.

 

I don't actually mean that last comment because FFP does offer a solution to creating a fair and balanced competition but it won't happen as long as those with their snouts in the trough continue to benefit from the way things are. To do something about it, football fans would have to stop going to matches and stop buying Sky subscriptions at obscene costs, but that won't happen either.

 

I think you analysis of FFP is flawed. You are looking at it as something intended to provide a level playing field. If you want a level playing field adopt a North American style league with revenue sharing and no relegations. FFP was intended to prevent clubs from spending money they didn't have and going into receivership. It is working fine for that. We cannot catch up with Manchester united in spending not just because our owner doesn't want to spend the money, but because the rules no longer allow it. Causing English clubs to have less money by paying less attention to them will have no beneficial effect on the problem. If anything it will help the bigger clubs more than the rest because they have other ways to make money.

 

Isn't 2 years the shelf life of Managers at most clubs these days?

 

We've had ambitious Managers who have done well at Saints and then think the grass is greener else where or they think they've taken the club as far as it can go - McMenemy, Ball, Souness,Hoddle,Strachan,Rednapp,Poch, and what have they won ? 1 measly bought FA cup between them.

 

It was always a disaster when they left but somehow we've managed to struggle on to 6th in the league.

 

Yes, but normally they get fired for not being good enough. That being said, Swansea lost Rodgers and Norwich lost Lambert when bigger clubs came a calling. We have had the "misfortune" of having ambitious younger managers do better than expected. That seems to be pretty rare.

[Redslo]

What are you talking about. It is not our highest ever league position, we finished 2nd in the top league of English football in a lot of our fans lifetime. The PL is just a fabricated rehash of the old Division 1 that they tried to make sexy for Sky and television. We were in the top league for 27 years. Football is for life not just the PL. Oh and we qualified for Europe quite a few times before the PL as well

 

So? It was our best result in over 30 years. That is still enough reason not to mope and complain.