Has the club's philosophy on loaning out our younger players changed?

[trousers]

Has the club's philosophy on loaning out our younger players changed over the last couple of years? We now seem to be embracing the loan option more than we used to. I know there's been previous discussions on here citing the need to send players out on loan more often these days because of the reduced first team opportunities, but I'm sensing an underlying philosophical shift in the club's mindset here too.

 

Here's what Les Reed said back in 2014:

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?49397-Les-Reed-on-The-Footballers-Football-Show-tonight-(7pm-amp-11pm-SS1)&p=1899163#post1899163

Les Reed:

 

- Everyone at Southampton works to the same philosophy

- Therefore, the manager can pick young players and allow them to make mistakes

- No one at the club is going to punish or criticise the manager for doing that

- We take boys from the age of 9 to 17 ideally

- At 17 we decide whether to offer them a contract

- Contracts offered to 17 year old players are all standardised and the same

- We then offer them a range of incentives to encourage good practice and reward hard work

- We believe that standardised contracts with incentives are the best way to handle youngsters and encourage them to make the first team

- We will offer new contracts to exceptional talents once they get to 18 or older

- We emphasise to them that we all start on the same starting line together

- From there on, it is all about the hard work that you must put in to reap the rewards

- Our club's structure is different from Chelsea or Manchester City

- That's because everyone within the club buys into the philosophy

- From the youth coaches to first team coach

- I say first team coach because that is what he is, he's a very good coach on the training pitch

- He was appointed because of his philosophy in this regard

- He has plenty of experience in nurturing young talent from his time in Spain

- Everyone buys into the fact that whether a first teamer or not, at the ages of 17 and 18 you will train with the first team on a regular basis

- For example Luke Shaw and James Ward-Prowse, they have to train with internationals

- Luke had to face Lallana, Rodriguez etc. in training, he trains alongside a Croatian international in defence, Dejan Lovren

- This is hugely beneficial, just training with senior pros is useful

- I don't understand the logic of investing significant sums in trying to attract the best possible young stars from abroad

- You then end up sending out the best of your own prospects to other teams who don't nurture them with the same level of interest

- I don't think the lower league environment is the best way to nurture your young players

- There's a theory of 'rough them up' but I don't agree with that

- We place high standards on our lads

- We monitor them heavily

- They gain their mental and physical strength at Southampton, nowhere else

- I don't buy the argument that loan spells in the lower leagues makes players better

- There are cases for loans though

- I think youngsters are better off in their own clubs

- But it depends on clubs providing the right experience

- It's sad to see young players in limbo, it's sad that they will never make their first team and spend their time on loan at several clubs

- We'd never attract the players here if it seemed we took lots in, kept some and discarded the rest just to make some money off of it

- We are selective

- We take our lads in on the promise that we will do everything possible on and off the field to make you a Premier League player

- There is a pathway for you if you do what is expected and required of you

- Luke and James have not been on loan, neither has Calum

- They have made the transition into the Premier League with very little difficulty whatsoever

- Competitive football is not important as such

- The standard you are playing to is far more important

- It's not Southampton's job to produce players for the Football League

- It's Southampton's job to provide for Southampton and that is what we will continue to do

- We can create the competitive environment in our B Team/U21 side in order to help progression

- We need to work together to improve the U21 league

- We need to think outside the box to incentivise the league more and make it that 'B' league that many discuss

- I can't envisage a time when United and Oldham fans standing together to cheer a team with mixed identity

- Is it Oldham or is it Manchester United B?

- Our academy is thriving because we believe we are doing the right thing

- Loans and feeder clubs are not in our formula

- I understand that there are League One and League Two clubs would like the opportunity to borrow players

- I can see that as appealing for smaller clubs

- But I think a lot more thought needs to go into it

- For example Arsenal and Barnet, who turns up to support?

- Is it Arsenal fans to see Arsenal's reserves, or Barnet fans to watch Barnet?

- I don't believe in loans or feeder clubs

- We believe that preparing our players with our own curriculum in house

- That makes them suited to our system, not anyone else's system, but ours

- It won't work to develop better English talent for the international squads in the future

- The difference is, our best 17, 18 and 19 year olds are playing in our first team, not anywhere else

- The top clubs, rather than parking players elsewhere, should develop them

- These players tend to leave the big club and end up with a career in the Football League

- Great for the player, getting a career, but why go to those top clubs in the first place if they don't maximise your potential

- As a club, if you just turn the player into a Football League player, why?

- We should work together with the U21 league and develop the international aspect

- The Next Gen competition etc should be worked on so we can make these young players the best that they can be

- We need to think outside the box if we want to develop better talent

 

And here's what Martin Hunter is saying today:

 

Martin Hunter:

 

Martin Hunter believes that a number of players in Southampton’s development squad have reaped rewards from getting first team experience at professional clubs this season.

 

A number of Saints have profited from making steps into the football league, including the likes of Lloyd Isgrove, who has helped transform Barnsley from League 1 relegation battlers to promotion contenders.

 

The club’s policy of loaning players out when the time is right for their development sees Saints make the best possible use of the loan system, in the hope that the club’s young talents will push for a first team place on their returns to St Mary’s.

 

A shift in club philosophy, or am I reading too much into it? (just for a change! )

Edited 25 May, 2016 by trousers

[SuperSAINT]

Has the club's philosophy on loaning out our younger players changed over the last couple of years? We now seem to be embracing the loan option more than we used to. I know there's been previous discussions on here citing the need to send players out on loan more often these days because of the reduced first team opportunities, but I'm sensing an underlying philosophical shift in the club's mindset here.

 

Here's what Les Reed said back in 2014:

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?49397-Les-Reed-on-The-Footballers-Football-Show-tonight-(7pm-amp-11pm-SS1)&p=1899163#post1899163

 

 

And here's what Martin Hunter is saying today:

 

 

 

A shift in club philosophy, or am I reading too much into it? (just for a change! )

 

IIRC, didn't we loan Jack Stephen's out pretty much straight after Les made those statements?

 

I think we keep the younger ones in house, but are more likely to send the older ones out (which I totally agree with)

 

McQueen / Isgrove / Stephens / Turnball / McCarthy clearly too good for the U21's now.

 

I still say Gazza & Reed should have gone out last season too.

[S-Clarke]

I think this is just as a consequence to our quick rise, which probably caught some at the club by surprise. Although our young players are good, they're probably not good enough (yet) to sustain a 6th place PL club. That has led to us investing into better quality players all over the pitch, so they do fall down the pecking order a little. I think game time is the best, as we saw from McCarthy this year, so if they're further away from the first time it's fair to assume we'd be open to a loan.

 

It's all about being flexible as a club and adjusting to different situations, things have changed for us in an incredibly quick timescale.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

Yes I think it has fundamentally changed - however that has been helped by a) the standard required to get into the first team has never been higher, and b) a lack of talent right now.

 

The hard part is finding the right club with the right amount of gametime for the young player. When it works it is very beneficial. When it doesn't it's a massive waste of time.

[Saint IQ]

The fact is the under 21 League standard is not high enough to prepare players for the premier league and even League One is a better grounding, Delli Alli an example.

[Saint Charlie]

They loan out the defenders for whom its harder to give first team football and the players who probably won't make it.

 

None of JWP, Targett or Reed have gone on loan and they are the only three young players who are members of the first team squad really.

[glengarryleads]

They loan out the defenders for whom its harder to give first team football and the players who probably won't make it.

 

None of JWP, Targett or Reed have gone on loan and they are the only three young players who are members of the first team squad really.

 

this, exactly. I'll just paste what i was writing myself before i saw Charlie here...

 

The gist of it, i think, is that we'll loan out the ones we think have no path to the first team, and keep the ones that do. Ward-Prowse, Targett, Calum Chambers, Harrison Reed -- none of them were ever loaned out. You might offer an exception for Stephens/Turnbull/McCarthy but i suspect their loans are more of a case of 'aren't expected to make its' also.

 

Europa league reqs change everything, of course.

[richardc]

In 2004 Reed was speaking on behalf of Cortese, I dont think he really believed it, as we are now loaning out players

[richardc]

sorry 2014

[doddisalegend]

I think this is just as a consequence to our quick rise, which probably caught some at the club by surprise. Although our young players are good, they're probably not good enough (yet) to sustain a 6th place PL club. That has led to us investing into better quality players all over the pitch, so they do fall down the pecking order a little. I think game time is the best, as we saw from McCarthy this year, so if they're further away from the first time it's fair to assume we'd be open to a loan.

 

It's all about being flexible as a club and adjusting to different situations, things have changed for us in an incredibly quick timescale.

 

yep if we were still in the lower leagues I think we'd see a lot more academy boys in around the first team now if they want to be anywhere near the first team they need to be exceptional at a young age.

[Badger]

I think there was a change of emphasis when NC left. During his time the club spoke against the idea of loaning out players,but as richardc says this changed soon after his departure, and Stephens & Turnbull - for two - went off to Swindon, and probably benefited from it.

 

Personally I think its a good idea to farm some of them out to benefit from the 'rough and tumble' of league football in a competitive first team environment. But it will be interesting to see what happens this coming season after last years experiences. Gallager & Stephens went to Championship clubs in Septembeer which looked a good move on the face of it. Neither featured much and both were back in January.Both really had a season wasted.

 

The critical thing is for them to go somewhere that they'll get game time in a team trying to play it the right way. No point sending Reed to a club who by-pass the midfield for example.

 

One problem is that we've lost our best 'nursery' club with AFCB coming up. Can't see us supplying to any other local team for match experience. Swindon, Exeter, Plymouth perhaps are the next local options.

 

Nect season I'd like to see a few out on loan, Gallagher, Reed, Stephens, & Gazzaniga spring to mind, because I doubt any will be in RK's immediate plans other than early rounds of the League Cup perhaps.

[SuperSAINT]

The video from this thread explains all about this is more detail: http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?56576-VIDEO-Les-Reed-reviews-the-season-and-discusses-the-club-s-ambition-and-future-plans#.V0cw5fkrKUk

[Pwoite]

How many of those mentioned will still he here next season? How many contracts expire and won't be renewed or even on contracts will be sold on or released? Not sure when our retained list will be published, but I can see quite a few disappearing club, especially if the general view is that our youngsters really aren't that good a generation.

[SuperSAINT]

How many of those mentioned will still he here next season? How many contracts expire and won't be renewed or even on contracts will be sold on or released? Not sure when our retained list will be published, but I can see quite a few disappearing club, especially if the general view is that our youngsters really aren't that good a generation.

 

Check this thread: http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?45712-Keeping-track-of-the-contracts/page2#.V0c1vfkrKUk

[DuncanRG]

One problem is that we've lost our best 'nursery' club with AFCB coming up. Can't see us supplying to any other local team for match experience. Swindon, Exeter, Plymouth perhaps are the next local options.

 

There's another local club around here somewhere, think one of our academy boys used to go there as a kid...

[david in sweden]

Has the club's philosophy on loaning out our younger players changed over the last couple of years? We now seem to be embracing the loan option more than we used to. I know there's been previous discussions on here citing the need to send players out on loan more often these days because of the reduced first team opportunities, but I'm sensing an underlying philosophical shift in the club's mindset here too.

 

Here's what Les Reed said back in 2014:

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?49397-Les-Reed-on-The-Footballers-Football-Show-tonight-(7pm-amp-11pm-SS1)&p=1899163#post1899163

 

 

And here's what Martin Hunter is saying today:

A shift in club philosophy, or am I reading too much into it? (just for a change! )

 

 

...think that question was covered in the Les Reed interview, it was statement made some years ago , but now he said that in our present position ( 6th.) meant that

nearly everyone in the side is an international, and competition for places is much harder.

 

Good to recall that when Walcott, Bale and Oxlade Chamberlain were to names in the headlines, we were still a Championship side, and Luke Shaw was with us one season (we finished 14th)....before moving on to MU, but tbf.....Adkins choosing him ahead of Fox was a no-brainer for every fan at the time.

 

JWP and Targett has shown that they can come in and DAJFU, but neither of them is better than the regular first choice. It'll be even harder to break into a future squads.

 

The idea of getting good " loan-outs " for the up-and-coming talents is now more important and we learned a lesson last season from a poor choice of loan clubs .

[david in sweden]

There's another local club around here somewhere, think one of our academy boys used to go there as a kid...

 

you don't mean Winchester City ?....Eastleigh?....or Waterlooville?...or was it Farnborough?