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Europa League 2016/2017 (Died 8/12/2016)

ScepticalStan

By ScepticalStan,
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The9

The9

Posted
Posted
thanks... doesnt leave long (2 weeks?) to arrange travel details if we're away

 

It also leaves nearly 4 months to arrange travel it if we're away in the last group game, which is in December. But it's nice to know people are only planning one game at a time. :)

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LeBenali

LeBenali

Posted
Posted
Just knowing the home and away dates would be an advantage for me. Do I presume that all these would be determined by the draw?

 

It's a little further up in the thread...however we still need to know if we're in pot 3 or 4, as when one is at home the other is away etc.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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stevegrant

stevegrant

Posted
Posted
Interesting to note that the 2016/17 version of the (2015-18 ) UEFA EL regulations are out: http://www.uefa.org/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/uefaorg/Regulations/02/35/92/45/2359245_DOWNLOAD.pdf

 

The fixture order is the same as before... unchanged from earlier in the thread.

 

Matchday 1: 15/09/16

2 v 3

4 v 1

Matchday 2: 29/09/16

1 v 2

3 v 4

Matchday 3: 20/10/16

3 v 1

2 v 4

Matchday 4: 03/11/16

1 v 3

4 v 2

Matchday 5: 24/11/16

3 v 2

1 v 4

Matchday 6: 08/12/16

2 v 1

4 v 3

One thing that document doesn't clarify is whether, when the draw is done, the teams are automatically assigned position 1 in the group if they're in Pot 1, position 2 if they're in Pot 2, etc.

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oldsarum

oldsarum

Posted
Posted
One thing that document doesn't clarify is whether, when the draw is done, the teams are automatically assigned position 1 in the group if they're in Pot 1, position 2 if they're in Pot 2, etc.

 

I checked this with last years draw and this is not the case, I think you get drawn out and then given number between 1 & 4

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The9

The9

Posted
Posted (edited)
One thing that document doesn't clarify is whether, when the draw is done, the teams are automatically assigned position 1 in the group if they're in Pot 1, position 2 if they're in Pot 2, etc.

 

They definitely allocated slots - when you look at last season's seeding pots and then fixtures there's no correlation between pot and when the team played home/away fixtures.

 

Also - here's the 2015/16 draw in full and they explain the entire process in the first 2 minutes and 42 seconds. The phrase "at the end of the draw, the computer will allocate the teams to their position in the group" is at 02'30" " :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHfS2M0LWK4&list=PLaInLm0_SCt5lU70_VujAVwHfA8xARi2u&index=59

 

As for the rest of the process:

 

You can't play a team from the same nation, so to avoid that in the group stage draw last year so what they did was split the groups into A-F and G-L ("red" and "blue" groups) to ensure teams from the same national associations were separated - that might be different this year if 3 clubs from any one nation get through (eg Man U, Saints and West Ham from the qualifying stage) they'll have to split into more blocks, or maybe just place a team in a group to ensure it's away from the other 2. Italy had 4 teams in the draw last time and they were paired up into different halves, with "the computer" separating them in the actual draw (by shifting teams over to the other half if there was a potential nation clash).

 

In 2015/16 all the games in "red" or "blue" groups kicked off at the same time as the other games in the same red or blue group (either 6pm or 8pm), 3 matches of each. So we're guaranteed three 6pm kick offs and three 8pm kick offs. That will be the same no matter how many clubs from one particular nation make it through as logically there are still only two sets of kick off times.

 

They also kept Russian and Ukrainian sides apart, fwiw using the same red/blue principle.

 

It's computerised to "help" but as a basic principle, the order of the draw is Pot 1 (top seeds) and they are placed into the first alphabetically available group, so starting with Group A (subject to the previous conditions - e.g. if a team from the same nation is already in A it will go into the other side of the draw, so starting from group G in that case).

When Pot 1 is done, all of Pot 2 are drawn, then all of Pot 3, then all of Pot 4 - at the end of all that the computer shuffles each group so the teams are given a "fixture position" from 1-4 which is when you know who you're playing when as per the fixtures.

 

48 clubs, 12 groups.

Edited by The9
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The9

The9

Posted
Posted (edited)

FWIW, I'm just watching the draw, and (apart from being DULL) they drew Pot 1 A through to L without any issues, as you'd expect.

 

Then the first ball from Pot 2 was Lazio, who were put into the blue half and Group G (rather than Group A) because there was already an Italian team (Napoli) in the red half (in Group A). When Fiorentina came out later they were placed into Group I rather than F. They'd also already picked Besiktas when "F" was alphabetically next, but placed them into Group H on the other side of the draw, presumably because they needed to keep the slot in Group F free for a team still in the Pot 2 bowl which had a team from the same nation already drawn in the other half of Pot 1 (Group G-L). I bet that gets messy by Pot 3 and I can see why they needed a computer to show "available pots".

 

Watching on (16 minutes in), it was because Braga was in Pot 2 and needed to go in the opposite side of the draw to Pot 1's Sporting (Lisbon) so they had to keep Group F open until they were drawn - which actually meant filling up H,I,J and K first.

 

That actually means if you're super-smart and hyper-quick you can cut the number of possible opponents down immediately when a team from a country with 2 (or 4) representatives gets drawn into the other half of the draw. So based on this principle [assuming only Saints and Man U qualify] when Man U come out we'll know if we're in A-F or G-L and who we can and can't get depending on which other nations are in the other half of the draw (so the other nation from their country would be in the Saints half of the draw).

Edited by The9
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The9

The9

Posted
Posted

Oh, and that "positioning teams in the group" for the fixtures does not take place on that video - though it definitely takes place. That's a bit of a p155er given that we won't be able to book anything until we know which position number we are! I wonder if UEFA do that to discourage people from booking until "officially confirmed" so they can sod about with kick off times for tv markets, etc.

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The9

The9

Posted
Posted
You plan on buying flights and hotel rooms before the draw has been made?

 

Obviously not but there's a big old window of delay to get stuff booked before the club confirms the fixtures for people who know how to work it out.

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The9

The9

Posted
Posted (edited)
Fair enough, probably help with the long distance euro ties.

 

We don't know if we'll have any long distance ones yet - we could end up with Anderlecht, Lille and Dundalk (which I'd be fine with, tbf, though I have been to Lille in the past 6 weeks) - the key thing that's come home for me is that we were already playing this time last year, and the weather in Europe is going to be a little different from July/August of last year to the group stage period of September to December this time around.

Edited by The9
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oldsarum

oldsarum

Posted
Posted
We don't know if we'll have any long distance ones yet - we could end up with Anderlecht, Lille and Gent (which I'd be fine with, tbf, though I have been to Lille in the past 6 weeks) - the key thing that's come home for me is that we were already playing this time last year, and the weather in Europe is going to be a little different from July/August of last year to the group stage period of September to December this time around.

 

We can't get two teams from one country in same group so Anderlecht and Gent in one group not possible

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marc_saint

marc_saint

Posted
Posted
There are a handful of Celtic fans who have travelled to Astana for their match tomorrow! I wonder how many we would take.

 

The trouble they've had for this game is that they only knew a week ago that they were playing there. I'd like to think that if we were drawn there in 3/4 months time we'd have time to book travel etc and a slightly cheaper price (although still not the cheapest of away games)

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The9

The9

Posted
Posted (edited)
We can't get two teams from one country in same group so Anderlecht and Gent in one group not possible

 

Yeah, forgot that for a moment when I was trying to find 3 places nearby... Anderlecht, Lille and Dundalk then. I'd also assumed Pot 4 for the original list for some reason, so this one's more sound as we're Pot 3 in this example.

 

If you want to keep us with Pot 4, say Mainz instead.

Edited by The9
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The9

The9

Posted
Posted
We're expecting you to do better than that, The9! ;-)

 

Ha, if you recall, I go into hiding either side of the draw to accumulate tabs of open windows in Wikipedia, Google Maps and hotel and flight sales websites ready to book stuff. :D

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marc_saint

marc_saint

Posted
Posted

Teams in the 3rd Qualifying round who have a higher seeding than us are.......

 

AZ Alkmaar Ned 43.612

Racing Genk Bel 36.000

Lille OSC Fra 29.549

AS Saint-Étienne Fra 26.049

AA Gent Bel 25.000

FK Krasnodar Rus 24.216

Rapid Wien Aut 23.520

Slovan Liberec Cze 22.085

NK Maribor Slo 21.625

Maccabi Tel-Aviv Isr 20.225

Spartak Moscow Rus 19.216

Austria Wien Aut 19.020

Zaglebie Lubin Pol 16.925

 

If we want to be looking at going into a higher seeding pot than pot 4 we need these teams to lose

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stevegrant

stevegrant

Posted
Posted
Teams in the 3rd Qualifying round who have a higher seeding than us are.......

 

AZ Alkmaar Ned 43.612

Racing Genk Bel 36.000

Lille OSC Fra 29.549

AS Saint-Étienne Fra 26.049

AA Gent Bel 25.000

FK Krasnodar Rus 24.216

Rapid Wien Aut 23.520

Slovan Liberec Cze 22.085

NK Maribor Slo 21.625

Maccabi Tel-Aviv Isr 20.225

Spartak Moscow Rus 19.216

Austria Wien Aut 19.020

Zaglebie Lubin Pol 16.925

 

If we want to be looking at going into a higher seeding pot than pot 4 we need these teams to lose

Relevant scores:

 

AZ 1-0 Giannina (Greece) [LATEST]

Genk 1-0 Cork City

Lille 1-1 Qabala (Kazakhstan)

Saint-Etienne 0-0 AEK (Greece) [LATEST]

Gent 5-0 Vitorul (Romania) [LATEST]

Birkikara (Malta) 0-3 Krasnodar

Zhodino (Bosnia) 0-0 Rapid Vienna

Admira Wacker (Austria) 1-1 Slovan Liberec [LATEST]

Aberdeen 0-0 Maribor [LATEST]

Pandurii (Romania) 1-3 Maccabi Tel Aviv

AEK Larnaca (Cyprus) [manager: Inigo Idiakez] 1-1 Spartak Moscow

Austria Vienna 0-1 Trnava (Slovakia)

Zaglebie Lubin 1-2 Sonderjyske (Denmark)

 

So only two of the teams in that list have lost the first leg (both at home as well), but a few still in with a tough second leg. Not Gent, though :lol:

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Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted
Relevant scores:

 

AZ 1-0 Giannina (Greece) [LATEST]

Genk 1-0 Cork City

Lille 1-1 Qabala (Kazakhstan)

Saint-Etienne 0-0 AEK (Greece) [LATEST]

Gent 5-0 Vitorul (Romania) [LATEST]

Birkikara (Malta) 0-3 Krasnodar

Zhodino (Bosnia) 0-0 Rapid Vienna

Admira Wacker (Austria) 1-1 Slovan Liberec [LATEST]

Aberdeen 0-0 Maribor [LATEST]

Pandurii (Romania) 1-3 Maccabi Tel Aviv

AEK Larnaca (Cyprus) [manager: Inigo Idiakez] 1-1 Spartak Moscow

Austria Vienna 0-1 Trnava (Slovakia)

Zaglebie Lubin 1-2 Sonderjyske (Denmark)

 

So only two of the teams in that list have lost the first leg (both at home as well), but a few still in with a tough second leg. Not Gent, though :lol:

 

Didn't Celtic once turn over a 5-0 first leg defeat against some East European team?

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suewhistle

suewhistle

Posted
Posted
WH looked absolute garbage in defence and without Payet, did nothing. Early days though.

 

Wasn't one of their first choice full backs badly injured in a pre-season friendly? Only saw a newspaper report and it was fairly critical of their full backs. We play them end of September so here's hoping.

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stevegrant

stevegrant

Posted
Posted
Wasn't one of their first choice full backs badly injured in a pre-season friendly? Only saw a newspaper report and it was fairly critical of their full backs. We play them end of September so here's hoping.

Yeah, Cresswell's out for months, so as a result last night they switched their actual right-back Sam Byram to left-back and put Michail Antonio in at right-back - a position he was continually exposed in last season.

 

Didn't Celtic once turn over a 5-0 first leg defeat against some East European team?

Not quite. They lost 5-0 away to Artmedia Bratislava in Gordon Strachan's first game in charge, and won the second leg 4-0.

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The9

The9

Posted
Posted
WH looked absolute garbage in defence and without Payet, did nothing. Early days though.

 

Early days, but it'll be interesting to see what happens for West Ham's first ever game at the Olympic Stadium when they need to win by 2 if they don't win 1-0, and where the home advantage consists solely of the fans because it's the first competitive match at the ground so the players don't have any kind of familiarity with the location. When you consider that the fans are also much further from the pitch than they used to be at the Boleyn, it'll be very interesting to see if they can turn it around.

 

Personally I'm torn between wanting them to get through to stuff up their Prem campaign too, and England only having two representatives so the draw is easier to understand. :D

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The9

The9

Posted
Posted
Apparently no gambling sponsors allowed for European matches.

 

I haven't check official sources but what I've heard.

 

I've just gone through the Europa League regulations (though not the specific kit regs yet) and I'm pretty sure it's due to national law:

 

http://www.uefa.org/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/uefaorg/Regulations/02/35/92/45/2359245_DOWNLOAD.pdf

 

Article 53 Shirt sponsor

53.01 From the group stage, only the approved and used shirt sponsor may appear at

the official training session and any UEFA Europa League media activities the day

before the match.

53.02 From the group stage, clubs may change their shirt sponsor only once during the

same UEFA season.

53.03 Starting the competition without a sponsor but subsequently using one is not

considered as a change of sponsor.

53.04 A change regarding the content of the sponsor advertising is considered to be a

change of sponsor, even if the sponsor remains the same.

53.05 Clubs which want to change their shirt sponsor must submit their request to the

UEFA administration at least ten working days prior to the first match in which

they wish to use the new sponsor (together with the items defined in Paragraph

34.04 of the UEFA Kit Regulations).

53.06 For clubs that have qualified for the knockout rounds, any sponsor change must

be announced to the UEFA administration by 1 February 2017 (12.00 CET) at the

latest. No change in sponsor is permitted after this time.

53.07 If the national legislation applicable at the match venue prevents a visiting club

from using its approved shirt sponsor (see Paragraph 32.02 of the UEFA Kit

Regulations), the club may ask UEFA to replace its sponsor with a UEFA-endorsed

programme or with a charity in compliance with the UEFA requirements.

Alternatively, a club may wear advertising for a product of its sponsor as long as it

complies with the applicable national legislation and is approved by UEFA. Such

requests must be submitted to the UEFA administration at least two days before

the match in question. For the avoidance of doubt, clubs are solely responsible for

complying with the applicable national legislation.

http://www.uefa.org/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/uefaorg/Regulations/02/35/92/45/2359245_DOWNLOAD.pdf

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Doctoroncall

Doctoroncall

Posted
Posted
Also, online betting seems to be a bit of a hot potato in Slovenia, which makes it all the more likely: http://www.frixo.com/sbook/regions/slovenia.asp

 

We'll find out anyway if West Ham have their usual sponsors in the home leg.

 

That looks much more likely. I was trying to think back at the advertisers at the match for the Euros to see if there were any betting companies advertising pitch side but couldn't remember!

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The9

The9

Posted
Posted
That looks much more likely. I was trying to think back at the advertisers at the match for the Euros to see if there were any betting companies advertising pitch side but couldn't remember!

 

There aren't any here, but that only means UEFA know that some countries (including France in particular) have regulations about shirt advertising they wouldn't want to breach wholesale:

 

QCdjB5HwFOTaWQ8X4xMDoxOjBzMTt2bJ

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