Block34 Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 It seems clubs let us see if players and managers can establish themselves in the Premier League and then step right in and take them off us. It seems Europe and finishing higher than Everton meant zilch, I think the angst is a sudden realisation that we're not quite where we think we are in Premier League standings, it feels like a rude awakening if I'm being honest. We are, and will for the foreseeable future, be seen primarily as a club for 'pillaging' by the 'big clubs' and I truly believe that that is an explicit part of the 'sustainable club' model we have - we take them in, we improve them, we sell them, we make a profit, we survive (and some seasons, also happen to do really well). After all, this is a business. We may not see it like that as fans, but that is all that it is really. And all those in our, or any, club are simply employees. Better this than living on past, faded glories as other 'bigger' teams do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verlaine1979 Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 6 years at Barcelona as a player would have been good money in the late 80s/early 90s (Lineker, Hughes, Archibald, Venables etc all went there in the 80s, I suspect not just for the weather) but he'd have missed the later boom. However, he's been managing or assistant managing at big-name European clubs (plus Vitesse, AZ and Saints) for 17 years with only maybe 2 years out. He's going to be very comfortable indeed, independent of any discussion of the success of his investments, property he could pay for outright, etc. Of course, like I said, I'm not disputing that he's loaded. I'm just saying that you have to be substantially richer than RK or pretty much any other footballer before doubling your income makes no meaningful difference to your quality of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 It's just a shame that it seems no matter how well we do, we'll just keep getting raided and pushed around and ultimately fail to achieve 'what could have been'. In the grand scheme of things we should just enjoy these few seasons of punching above our weight, but it there's always that hope that if things go our way then we can make ourselves a long term force in the top few in this league. To do that we're going to have to stand up to the likes of Everton, West Ham, even Spurs and Liverpool. I don't think we've got that in us unfortunately with the current setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 Well if that's the case I assume the club are happy to let Koeman go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 It's just a shame that it seems no matter how well we do, we'll just keep getting raided and pushed around and ultimately fail to achieve 'what could have been'. In the grand scheme of things we should just enjoy these few seasons of punching above our weight, but it there's always that hope that if things go our way then we can make ourselves a long term force in the top few in this league. To do that we're going to have to stand up to the likes of Everton, West Ham, even Spurs and Liverpool. I don't think we've got that in us unfortunately with the current setup. How are we failing to achieve what could have been? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 Well if that's the case I assume the club are happy to let Koeman go. If he has refused an extension I would imagine that is the case, and rightly so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 https://mobile.twitter.com/football_oranje?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw Quoting this paper. http://nieuw.ad.nl/buitenlands-voetbal/ronald-koeman-zelf-al-akkoord-met-everton~aa92ae7b/ Koeman has a personal agreement with Everton. Everton want to present him this weekend it seems. That's not going to happen this weekend. Whoever is pushing this is doing it mainly through the Dutch media, who were claiming yesterday meetings were underway, which they clearly weren't Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 Well if that's the case I assume the club are happy to let Koeman go. Reported quite a while ago they were discussing what compensation will be, if it can be agreed. Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stknowle Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 I'm already more interested in who we get in than worried about the loss of Koeman. He's done very well, I like him, but if he wants out bye bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 Right now, I'd swop all the success we've had recently for a bit of old fashioned loyalty. A word that doesn't really exist beyond the stands in modern football. The only way to achieve this at our club is for a Matt & Franny management dream team. We'd probably be Championship but I'd personally take that over the annual harvest of players, managers and staff that use Saints as nothing more than a stepping stone. The supporters are taken as mugs at all top flight clubs these days. Totally agree. It's soul destroying seeing half the team sold off two seasons on the trot. That said, we've improved on our league position year on year. That can only be down to one thing... Koeman. I can't help but feel that letting him go at this stage would be a major blow and the club should be doing everything in their power to keep him and install some stability. However, loyalty doesn't seem to be a word that features in the game these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 If he has refused an extension I would imagine that is the case, and rightly so. Agreed, although slightly worrying that the club's future plans couldn't be sold to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 Well just put perspective on this the mirror are reporting arsenal have bid for Vardy.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 Agreed, although slightly worrying that the club's future plans couldn't be sold to him. I think the club have set their stall out in that respect. We aren't going to go out and spend £100m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSFC Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 Well, I think its a shame that he looks like leaving before the end of his contract but perhaps the club has someone lined up who they see as a longer term option now (rather than next summer) and in a sense we are in a stronger position now than we potentially might be next summer. The fact that he hasn't signed an extension suggests he didn't want to, or maybe the two parties couldn't agree on the length, and once that is the case i think its probably best to let him move on now. I suspect that the interest of Everton facilitated this attitude. Player wise I'm sure there will be the usual bed-wetters worrying that we will lose loads but its clear that we are looking longer term with the recent signings and with the likelihood of others to follow. This approach also suggests they would like a manager who wants to be here for 3-4 years rather than the usual premier league average of two or less!! It wouldn't be Saints without a summer of turmoil but Im sure this will be less so overall than the last few!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 I think the club have set their stall out in that respect. We aren't going to go out and spend £100m. I respect that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 How are we failing to achieve what could have been? As long as we keep losing our best players and managers, the 'what if' will always be there. What if we kept everyone together at the end of the 13/14 season and added like we all hoped we could. Ditto last season. Leicester just won the title and finished 17 points ahead of us, you could argue that every side has missed an opportunity to do something special. The fact that we started slowly and won 1 in 10 in the winter and STILL came 6th would suggest that there was potential for so much more. It was an amazing season and a great achievement to beat last season's total, but it was probably the easiest Prem season in history where so many of the traditional big clubs had lost the plot, along with some awful sides at the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
explorer saint Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 Koeman maybe does believe in saints plan for top 4 but the wages offered have swayed him to move it's down to money... End day he's looking after family and him . . He knows time moves on .. Saints fans just had enough thou ... This is worse than Poch I did believe he was was loyal .. He will have a great welcome at st Mary's next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 Ah well, if he doesn't want to be here he can sling his hook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 Although nothing has happened as yet but I really am not impressed that it looks like we could lose Koeman to Everton. Surely the board could have built up some sort of relationship with him that made him show a degree of loyalty? Everton are hardly Arsenal or Barcelona. It makes financial sense to do everything to keep him because losing him will cost considerably more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 As long as we keep losing our best players and managers, the 'what if' will always be there. What if we kept everyone together at the end of the 13/14 season and added like we all hoped we could. Ditto last season. Leicester just won the title and finished 17 points ahead of us, you could argue that every side has missed an opportunity to do something special. The fact that we started slowly and won 1 in 10 in the winter and STILL came 6th would suggest that there was potential for so much more. It was an amazing season and a great achievement to beat last season's total, but it was probably the easiest Prem season in history where so many of the traditional big clubs had lost the plot, along with some awful sides at the bottom. Doesn't work like that for me we could have kept previous players and managers and achieved less. The club keeps moving forward and improving and so I see not point in 'what if'.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 Although nothing has happened as yet but I really am not impressed that it looks like we could lose Koeman to Everton. Surely the board could have built up some sort of relationship with him that made him show a degree of loyalty? Everton are hardly Arsenal or Barcelona. It makes financial sense to do everything to keep him because losing him will cost considerably more. £2.5m vs £6m Forget whatever relationship you have. All sorts of reasons will come out - no doubt ambition will be bandied about. But simple fact is EFC can pay him more. Not sure quite why some people find this concept difficult to grasp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 Talks are underway..... Everton: "Can we speak to Ronald please?" Saints: "No" Discussion over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 £2.5m vs £6m Forget whatever relationship you have. All sorts of reasons will come out - no doubt ambition will be bandied about. But simple fact is EFC can pay him more. Not sure quite why some people find this concept difficult to grasp. Bit more complicated than that pal. But then again you struggle with basic words and concepts like ambition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diggers Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 Its starting to look like Koeman's "ambition" measurement is mostly based on his personal "financial ambition", rather than the clubs ambition to progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 Bit more complicated than that pal. But then again you struggle with basic words like ambition. It really isn't more complicated than that, and I am most certainly not your "pal". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaptopSaint Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 Relax people, and enjoy another classic Saints summer. What will be will be, and we'll have another great season next year. Remember League One, anyone? 1-0 loss at home to Plymouth on the opening day? #perspective Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 Although nothing has happened as yet but I really am not impressed that it looks like we could lose Koeman to Everton. Surely the board could have built up some sort of relationship with him that made him show a degree of loyalty? Everton are hardly Arsenal or Barcelona. It makes financial sense to do everything to keep him because losing him will cost considerably more. Depends on the replacement. If it does happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 Les reed is a laughing stock. Everytime he makes a statement the opposite happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 Its starting to look like Koeman's "ambition" measurement is mostly based on his personal "financial ambition", rather than the clubs ambition to progress. Taking the emotion of our love of SFC out of it..is it that different than any of us? I enjoy my job and work for a great company, but frankly if someone offered to treble my wages I'd be gone in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints foreva Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 Les reed is a laughing stock. Everytime he makes a statement the opposite happens. Yep, really needs to keep his mouth shut in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 Its starting to look like Koeman's "ambition" measurement is mostly based on his personal "financial ambition", rather than the clubs ambition to progress. Ambition in football IS money. If we can't afford to pay a few more million in wages why would Koenan think we can afford the type of players he wants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 Les reed is a laughing stock. Everytime he makes a statement the opposite happens. He has done the same interview for Koeman's, Pochettino's and Clyne's contracts..all of which have ended with the same result. I'm sure he is doing a good job generally but on the topic of contracts he is better off just shutting up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 Les reed is a laughing stock. Everytime he makes a statement the opposite happens. He really needs to put a stop to these end of season interviews, they aren't doing him, the club or the supporters any good at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinchesterSaint Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 I think the turn of events has happened along the following lines and that this deal has been months in the making; 1. Everton takeover completed in March/April, new owners make contact with rons agent. Ron is very interested in the lucrative offer but says he will talk at the end of the season as we are unlikely to qualify for Europe and he can use that as an excuse to leave. 2. Saints go on a great run culminating in 6th place and Europa qualification, now Ron has a problem as his excuse of selling our best players, not replacing them adequately, lack of ambition and doing worse than last season has gone 3. Rons agent, fearing he will lose a pay day leaks evertons interest to the press to get things moving. Ron, not wanting to lose face after our best ever season, sacks his agent to make it look like the speculation is agent led. Appoints a new agent who is told to keep the lines of communication with Everton open and finalise the deal when he returns from holiday as that's when the new Saints offer will also be on the table. 4. Ron meets Les Reed before his holiday, Les offers him everything Ron wanted but he has had his head turned by Everton and the money. Ron makes the right noises to Les and then jets off. 5. Everton told to hold off meeting other candidates but leak a few names to the press to keep the scent off of Ron and passify their supporters. 6. Ron returns having decided to take up Evertons lucrative offer, agent told to give the green light to Everton, things move quickly with no word from anyone. 7. Ron is confirmed as Evertons new manager saying Saints ambition didn't match Evertons etc etc..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 Taking the emotion of our love of SFC out of it..is it that different than any of us? I enjoy my job and work for a great company, but frankly if someone offered to treble my wages I'd be gone in a heartbeat. No it's not. As for the ambition of the club and keeping it's best players, isn't it a little ironic that EFC are resigned to lose their best player, and maybe others as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 I think the turn of events has happened along the following lines and that this deal has been months in the making; 1. Everton takeover completed in March/April, new owners make contact with rons agent. Ron is very interested in the lucrative offer but says he will talk at the end of the season as we are unlikely to qualify for Europe and he can use that as an excuse to leave. 2. Saints go on a great run culminating in 6th place and Europa qualification, now Ron has a problem as his excuse of selling our best players, not replacing them adequately, lack of ambition and doing worse than last season has gone 3. Rons agent, fearing he will lose a pay day leaks evertons interest to the press to get things moving. Ron, not wanting to lose face after our best ever season, sacks his agent to make it look like the speculation is agent led. Appoints a new agent who is told to keep the lines of communication with Everton open and finalise the deal when he returns from holiday as that's when the new Saints offer will also be on the table. 4. Ron meets Les Reed before his holiday, Les offers him everything Ron wanted but he has had his head turned by Everton and the money. Ron makes the right noises to Les and then jets off. 5. Everton told to hold off meeting other candidates but leak a few names to the press to keep the scent off of Ron and passify their supporters. 6. Ron returns having decided to take up Evertons lucrative offer, agent told to give the green light to Everton, things move quickly with no word from anyone. 7. Ron is confirmed as Evertons new manager saying Saints ambition didn't match Evertons etc etc..... Don't buy this at all. Koeman wouldn't say he would defo be here next year. Think there's been a huge gap in what saints were offering and way forward and club prob said that if he's not extending to go now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 No it's not. As for the ambition of the club and keeping it's best players, isn't it a little ironic that EFC are resigned to lose their best player, and maybe others as well? The only clubs you could honestly say who could keep their best players, are Barca and Real. Even Bayern's best player, Lewendowski, wants to talk to Real Madrid. Ronaldo wanted to talk to real madrid. Bale did. Suarez wanted to talk to Barca the list is endless, no one is immune really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 The only clubs you could honestly say who could keep their best players, are Barca and Real. Even Bayern's best player, Lewendowski, wants to talk to Real Madrid. Ronaldo wanted to talk to real madrid. Bale did. Suarez wanted to talk to Barca the list is endless, no one is immune really. No club hardly loses the amount of players we have the last 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pangy Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 The only thing I can think of is that the new 5 year plan starts and we want him to sign a 5 year deal,he doesn't want to commit to that and we will find someone that buys into it......that or he is a greedy fat rat The only negative is that any potential extensions we may be working on will now be put on hold until we show we still have the ambition and install a manager with a even better pedigree and drive than Koeman. We are on the cusp of becoming a seriously good team that has a chance to break the top 4 and CL is not so much a far fetched idea anymore as it was 9 months ago when we crashed out of the Europa. The next appointment is going to be one of the biggest decisions the board will make,they really need to get this right and hire a guy that will take us to the next level and have the ability to pull in class players to take us there. Thats why for me we have to go with a proven manager that has managed at the highest level,people like Howe et al really would show a lack of ambition as he won't be able to attract the level of player we should be looking at and has no experience at this end of the table/European games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clunge Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 A lot of people are missing a vital point here, Everton have to go through Saints to speak to Ron, so all this stuff about having his head turned is all nonsense, unless Everton have tapped him up of course. Saints could easily have stood strong and said you're not speaking to Ron, this situation is of the clubs making as much as anyone elses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 No club hardly loses the amount of players we have the last 3 years. 1 season. Don't bring it over two seasons. We lost 2 players last year, that was it. 1 freak pre-season, don't make it into more than it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 He has done the same interview for Koeman's, Pochettino's and Clyne's contracts..all of which have ended with the same result. I'm sure he is doing a good job generally but on the topic of contracts he is better off just shutting up. Errr... ...which is exactly what he is doing. Hence many fans are complaining that he's NOT coming out and making a statement. Make your mind up guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 As for the ambition of the club and keeping it's best players, isn't it a little ironic that EFC are resigned to lose their best player, and maybe others as well? Thats exactly what makes his decision to jump ship for them even more puzzling. Unless he's going to be honest and say he's going for the money quite what spin he can put on the move will be fascinating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButtikonSaint Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 I like RK and his bro - For all the success they have had, they seem down to earth, hard working, smart, funny and honest. However the same thing can be said of our current Board of Directors... They have brought success and financial stability to our club I trust they will do right by SFC and all of us, as fans... COYS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stknowle Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 A lot of people are missing a vital point here, Everton have to go through Saints to speak to Ron, so all this stuff about having his head turned is all nonsense, unless Everton have tapped him up of course. Saints could easily have stood strong and said you're not speaking to Ron, this situation is of the clubs making as much as anyone elses. To be fair mate I'm sure Everton (or any other club) are capable of turning the heads of other team's managers without having the official permission of their current employers to speak to them direct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 Errr... ...which is exactly what he is doing. Hence many fans are complaining that he's NOT coming out and making a statement. Make your mind up guys... He was talking about it as recently as last week...not to mention the obvious planted article in the Telegraph earlier this week. I haven't seen many fans on here demanding a statement...we don't need one, we've been here before and we know how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 Thats exactly what makes his decision to jump ship for them even more puzzling. Unless he's going to be honest and say he's going for the money quite what spin he can put on the move will be fascinating. If he came out and said it was too good an offer to turn down and gave financial security to his family, then I would respect the honesty of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 (edited) Talks are underway..... Everton: "Can we speak to Ronald please?" Saints: "No" Discussion over. The talks are about whether they can talk. That means agreeing compensation and I just get a feeling Saints may set it stupidly high. Where did the £3m come from? Probably Everton, bring what they'd expect to pay. After all, Everton have done nothing but brag about how much money they've got, and how much they can pay Ron, so how about we suggest a bit more? £10m? Then Ron can be spared the embarrassment of reneging on his promise to see his contract out. Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk Edited 3 June, 2016 by Shroppie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 Thats exactly what makes his decision to jump ship for them even more puzzling. Unless he's going to be honest and say he's going for the money quite what spin he can put on the move will be fascinating. Bigger club, bigger transfer budget (if reports are to be believed) and a decent squad (that only narrowly missed out on CL football in 2014). But keep burying your head. Whatever helps the medicine go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrZuess1979 the 2nd Posted 3 June, 2016 Share Posted 3 June, 2016 Bloody hate football some times Riding a wave after last season with thoughts of losing wanyama at the most possible mane (bigger loss) Then this what the actual fudge And I fing hate Everton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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