JohnnyFartPants Posted 7 January, 2009 Share Posted 7 January, 2009 yeah, like he was really successful during the good times as well eh! Anyway - he only cut and pasted what I posted back in late September about billionaires and football - nobody has the cash today, billionaires all have assets and they either use those to borrow cash for takeovers or they sell something else. they ain't gonna do that when there is no lenders or buyers around and we saw what's happening to them with that German guy jumping under a train this week :yawinkle: On the admin points - admin only works when you cannot raise cash by any other means. We aren't THERE yet, we still have assets on the playing staff. Obviously it is a last chance saloon if you have to have a fire sale (eg Sk*tesmuff & West Ham) but it does buy some more time for either restructuring OR the recession to ease and people to start looking at clubs again. In our case it would be the final cast of the dice but in THEORY at least it could be argued that a few loans and freebies MAY be enough to keep us up again. But it would NOT be a course of action anyone SHOULD take unless their back was so far up against the wall that there was no other choice.... After all, in Admin the liquidator would sell them anyway so at least you have SOME hope.... Bad though I don't totally agree with all you say. We are a cheap club with all the hardware in place. If a deal to buy the club could be reached we would be a very good investment. The facilities are on a parr with a lot of the top teams, better than many. If someone threw cash at us, while putting a good manager at the helm we would make that owner a lot of money in a short period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Posted 7 January, 2009 Share Posted 7 January, 2009 Not only did you have Frost's consortia but also Sanderson, our then sponsors and at least 2-3 other consortias. QUOTE] "consortias"!! - bloody Hell, there must have been millions of them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 7 January, 2009 Share Posted 7 January, 2009 There is one other major creditor I think but they will not likely put the club into Administration. Aviva are very aware of the precarious position we are in and I do not expect them to act to put us into Administration. Barclays will try to control the situation but unlikely to act either. If it's not in Barclays' or Aviva's interests to place us into compulsory administration then it can't be in their interests for the club to place itself into voluntary administration. Can it? As such - and this may be one logical conclusion jump too far - doesn't that leave us in a perpetual stalemate where Barclays and Aviva give us just enough rope to keep our heads above water but not enough rope to hang ourselves? Out of interest, what % of Barclays and Aviva's overall 'wealth' is the SLH debt? Given it must be relatively miniscule, why are they seemingly so reluctant to cut their losses in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 7 January, 2009 Share Posted 7 January, 2009 On the admin points - admin only works when you cannot raise cash by any other means. We aren't THERE yet, we still have assets on the playing staff. Hmmm...so, given the ex-academy players don't count as 'assets' (I recall that being stated when the Gareth Bale sale debate was raging)....by getting rid of all the senior pros, Lowe is effectively in the process of asset stripping? So, getting the senior players off our books isn't a revenue generation (aka debt clearance/avoidance) exercise as everyone assumed....it's simply a means to an end so Lowe can call in the administrators? Yes? No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 7 January, 2009 Share Posted 7 January, 2009 Does anyone know the last point we can go into administration this season and avoid points deductions for next season? I can just about handle league 1, but not league 2 and potential exit from the football league. trouble is though what are we, the fans going to do about it. Will we just sit back and moan to our mates and on forums about it or actually start doing...well...something, what i dont know, short of protests, stay aways etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsash saint Posted 7 January, 2009 Share Posted 7 January, 2009 Nothing against any of the posters, but what a thoroughly depressing thread to read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint 76er Posted 7 January, 2009 Share Posted 7 January, 2009 I don't totally agree with all you say. We are a cheap club with all the hardware in place. If a deal to buy the club could be reached we would be a very good investment. The facilities are on a parr with a lot of the top teams, better than many. If someone threw cash at us, while putting a good manager at the helm we would make that owner a lot of money in a short period. Johnny, I totally agree with this point of view. All along I could never see why someone with means would not want to acquire Saints. Why buy rubbish like the skates when you would have to spend a fortune on facilities, when you could buy control of us for maybe 4-5 million if the current major shareholders played ball. Then you would have a club with superb facilities already in place and years of PL experience behind it and with a large and loyal supporter base. I don't see the debts as the problem many do, just pay the annual interest and everything is fine. All that would be needed is someone with football smarts running the show and an owner prepared to invest a few bob on the manager and team, not necessarily a fortune, and just as you say big money could be there to be made. It just needs a proper businessman to see the potential that has completely eluded the clueless Lowe.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 7 January, 2009 Share Posted 7 January, 2009 Does anyone know the last point we can go into administration this season and avoid points deductions for next season? I can just about handle league 1, but not league 2 and potential exit from the football league. My reading of this now is you need to go into voluntary administration before you are relegated (unlike Leeds) to trigger the 10 points this season rather than next. This is why there is a very strong possibility that Southampton will go into administration sooner rather than later. Things are critical, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickmick Posted 7 January, 2009 Share Posted 7 January, 2009 My reading of this now is you need to go into voluntary administration before you are relegated (unlike Leeds) to trigger the 10 points this season rather than next. This is why there is a very strong possibility that Southampton will go into administration sooner rather than later. Things are critical, I believe. Any chance of some less depressing news ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 7 January, 2009 Share Posted 7 January, 2009 My reading of this now is you need to go into voluntary administration before you are relegated (unlike Leeds) to trigger the 10 points this season rather than next. This is why there is a very strong possibility that Southampton will go into administration sooner rather than later. Things are critical, I believe. So even with the great Lord Lowe's return we go into administration!? Does he actually have any talent at all? If we go into administration will it remove the jokers who run this plc (nearly wrote Club then) forever? We should have sold this Club by now to avoid this. Oh dear, oh dear. If it is that critical though Duncan, should we not now openly be declaring it is likely unless someone would like to come and buy the club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scummer Posted 7 January, 2009 Share Posted 7 January, 2009 (edited) My reading of this now is you need to go into voluntary administration before you are relegated (unlike Leeds) to trigger the 10 points this season rather than next. This is why there is a very strong possibility that Southampton will go into administration sooner rather than later. Things are critical, I believe. Even earlier than that I think. Obviously the next step after they had stopped you going into admin as soon as you are relegated would have been for teams to start doing it just before, when relegation was odds-on. So they brought the deadline right forward, to something like March. Incidentally, we did get our books signed off on a going-concern basis in the end didn't we? It would look a bit odd if the auditors approved that (which basically means we aren't in danger of going out of business in the next accounting period), and then we went into voluntary administration a couple of months later...... Edited 7 January, 2009 by Scummer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offix Posted 7 January, 2009 Share Posted 7 January, 2009 If Cowen was any good at running a Club why has he supported Lowe and his mistakes? Exactly. He has "enabled" Lowe for as long as he has been involved with the club. I understand from the various reactions from people to him over the years that he may be easier to deal with, and presents himself better than Ru**rt, but his actions over the years make him just as much to blame for the current situation as his master is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morph Posted 7 January, 2009 Share Posted 7 January, 2009 My reading of this now is you need to go into voluntary administration before you are relegated (unlike Leeds) to trigger the 10 points this season rather than next. This is why there is a very strong possibility that Southampton will go into administration sooner rather than later. Things are critical, I believe. I've always been advised, from some time back, that, without investment, we would probably go in to administration by Feb 09 based on us disposing of our more expensive players and based on our maintaining average gates of 17,000. Clearly our average gates are less than this, our disposals may be more, but of course the credit crunch has now struck, so without any sign of an investor out there I would suggest that things are probably looking very bleak. I wonder if we would have been better off taking the SISU deal when it raised it's head and was rejected by certain parties who now sit in the Directors Box Regards Morph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 7 January, 2009 Share Posted 7 January, 2009 I've always been advised, from some time back, that, without investment, we would probably go in to administration by Feb 09 based on us disposing of our more expensive players and based on our maintaining average gates of 17,000. Clearly our average gates are less than this, our disposals may be more, but of course the credit crunch has now struck, so without any sign of an investor out there I would suggest that things are probably looking very bleak. I wonder if we would have been better off taking the SISU deal when it raised it's head and was rejected by certain parties who now sit in the Directors Box Regards Morph No doubt at all Morph. Not taking the SISU deal was negligent as it has turned out. I know we all thought - me included - it was not a good enough deal for such a big club but those in the boardroom who actually had this financial forecast available to them and didnt accept the SISU deal need shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 7 January, 2009 Share Posted 7 January, 2009 Even earlier than that I think. Obviously the next step after they had stopped you going into admin as soon as you are relegated would have been for teams to start doing it just before, when relegation was odds-on. So they brought the deadline right forward, to something like March. Incidentally, we did get our books signed off on a going-concern basis in the end didn't we? It would look a bit odd if the auditors approved that (which basically means we aren't in danger of going out of business in the next accounting period), and then we went into voluntary administration a couple of months later...... I believe the auditors gave an unqualified opinion but with the rider that, basically, things could go t*ts up if e.g. gates changed. I think...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 7 January, 2009 Share Posted 7 January, 2009 If Cowen was any good at running a Club why has he supported Lowe and his mistakes? Old habbits die hard. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fagging Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 7 January, 2009 Share Posted 7 January, 2009 I've always been advised, from some time back, that, without investment, we would probably go in to administration by Feb 09 based on us disposing of our more expensive players and based on our maintaining average gates of 17,000. Clearly our average gates are less than this, our disposals may be more, but of course the credit crunch has now struck, so without any sign of an investor out there I would suggest that things are probably looking very bleak. I wonder if we would have been better off taking the SISU deal when it raised it's head and was rejected by certain parties who now sit in the Directors Box Regards Morph Don't know enough about the SISU deal to comment there - step forward RL, MW and LC - but your first bit of info Morph ties in with what I've heard. In fact, the Cup game may have delayed the inevitable but I was told months ago that if we were cut adrift at the bottom admin was on the cards and we're 2 more poor results from that happening. Of course the best way of avoiding it altogether is to get the team playing the situation and not a pipe dream - getting crosses in the box, bringing in an experienced target man and defending properly from front-to-back and mixing up our play a lot more. 2-3 wins in January would make a difference and perhaps even get a few more punters through the turnstiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Mockles Posted 7 January, 2009 Share Posted 7 January, 2009 No he cannot. Good. Had played on my mind. Hmmm...so, given the ex-academy players don't count as 'assets' (I recall that being stated when the Gareth Bale sale debate was raging)....by getting rid of all the senior pros, Lowe is effectively in the process of asset stripping? So, getting the senior players off our books isn't a revenue generation (aka debt clearance/avoidance) exercise as everyone assumed....it's simply a means to an end so Lowe can call in the administrators? Yes? No? Now, just to hope (possibly like Trousers suggested) Lowe hasn’t asset stripped us into oblivion so he can use the “no other option” excuse and put us into administration and have “associates” pick us up for a song! Profit and money is the only language the Lowe cabal speak. I am gutted for our club but the only pleasure I will get is that those money hungry, greedy b*stards have lost money (obviously excluding Crouch & Corbett). What does worry me though is that now Plan A has failed dramatically, what other disastrous ideas have they up their sleeve?! Considering the response to us staying up last season. We shall see. Only time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowballs2 Posted 7 January, 2009 Share Posted 7 January, 2009 If we were to go into Administration, and, if Lowe actually with help bought the club from the Administrators what effect do you think it would have on future attendances?. I ask the question because in my opinion it is unlikely that Lowe would want any part in the future of the club, even Lowe must realise that his reputation is totally finished in the eyes of the "customers" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Mockles Posted 7 January, 2009 Share Posted 7 January, 2009 If we were to go into Administration, and, if Lowe actually with help bought the club from the Administrators what effect do you think it would have on future attendances?. I ask the question because in my opinion it is unlikely that Lowe would want any part in the future of the club, even Lowe must realise that his reputation is totally finished in the eyes of the "customers" Let us hope so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 7 January, 2009 Share Posted 7 January, 2009 I seem to recall that sometimes directors can be barred by Companies House from holding directorships in future. But I'm not sure if this is when their company goes into administration or into liquidation. I'm sure one of you out there will know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornseySaintsFan Posted 7 January, 2009 Share Posted 7 January, 2009 why would he unite the fans. Staff at the club tell me that he's just as arrogant and as much as an horrible **** as lowe. clean sweep please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 7 January, 2009 Share Posted 7 January, 2009 why would he unite the fans. Staff at the club tell me that he's just as arrogant and as much as an horrible **** as lowe. clean sweep please I must admit people who know him have always said that compared to Lowe he was a reasonable sort of chap but in the couple of phone conversations I had with him last year during the SoS initiative I found him perfectly polite but his manner did remind me a little of Lowe himself. The relationship between the two men must be an interesting one - I have heard of times when Cowen has been a steadying influence on Lowe especially when things have got a little out of hand but when all said and done he has not been able to prevent some of Lowe's more "excessive or extravagent" decisions. Lowe is very capable of brow beating people - he has a forceful character that gets belligerent when opposed. I did have a few minutes talking to Mary Corbett prior to the AGM and was quite shocked when she told me how on quite a few occasions she had been intimidated by him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belgiansaint Posted 7 January, 2009 Share Posted 7 January, 2009 Then again my question: does it relate solely to business (I do what's good for the company and all that goes with that in terms of cost-cutting, etc.) or does he also get involved in football matters (I know I'm the better than anyone at making decisions concerning the football team and the rest of the world can **** off, because I am right)? Do people who got to know him a bit have an opinion on that? If, and that's a big IF, I suppose any incoming chairman, bar sugar daddy but let's stay in the real world, would have his hands tied anyway. If, footballwise he were the sort of down-to-earth guy who knows he knows nowt and lets that side of things in capable hands, then why not consider him. I don't know him so I'm neither for, nor against. Just asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rover Posted 7 January, 2009 Share Posted 7 January, 2009 From reading FF and Morph's comments above it is looking like we will be in Administration fairly soon. I don't underestimate the upheaval and problems that this will cause but I think it's got to the stage where things aren't going to improve until it happens. It's a great pity that Crouch and Pearson weren't allowed to continue what they had started, especially as it seems the bank would have backed their plans but it's no use crying over spilt milk. Here's hoping to a brighter future without Lowe. I know we've been here before but hopefully this time we WILL get a club back that feels like it's a part of the community rather than just a dim man's play thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 7 January, 2009 Share Posted 7 January, 2009 From reading FF and Morph's comments above it is looking like we will be in Administration fairly soon. I don't underestimate the upheaval and problems that this will cause but I think it's got to the stage where things aren't going to improve until it happens. It's a great pity that Crouch and Pearson weren't allowed to continue what they had started, especially as it seems the bank would have backed their plans but it's no use crying over spilt milk. Here's hoping to a brighter future without Lowe. I know we've been here before but hopefully this time we WILL get a club back that feels like it's a part of the community rather than just a dim man's play thing. i agree on this but...how are we going to get rid of him exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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