JWP & his annual time to "kick on"

[Pilchards]

How can you send it quality crosses and corners that are met by 50p heads.

Honestly how do we miss clean headers 4 yards out without a keeper in sight.

If I was him my agent would be out looking at options for an ambitious team that suit his style of football.

 

[Saint_clark]

Prowsey nominated for Premier League player of the season. Think he might have kicked on.

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

Prowsey nominated for Premier League player of the season. Think he might have kicked on.

JWP on that list is the football equivalent of the token Jazz album on the Mercury Prize shortlist.

Edited 13 May, 2022 by CB Fry

[CB Fry]

Jarrod Bowen is the folk album.

[SNSUN]

Well done James. Consistently good and we'd have been relegated without him. He won't win it but it's a great list to be on! Might help with his England chances too.

[Charlie Wayman]

On 22/04/2022 at 10:01, Pilchards said:

How can you send it quality crosses and corners that are met by 50p heads.

Honestly how do we miss clean headers 4 yards out without a keeper in sight.

If I was him my agent would be out looking at options for an ambitious team that suit his style of football.

 

Doubtful a top six side would want him as modern football is won in the midfield and these clubs already have an abundance of key players in those positions. I would hate to see him sell his soul to WHU, Newcastle or Villa

[Chris cooper]

West Ham poised to make bid of 55m (twitter) no way near enough if true ..they value rice at 150m 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

8 minutes ago, Chris cooper said:

West Ham poised to make bid of 55m (twitter) no way near enough if true ..they value rice at 150m 

Obviously selling Rice. They want to get business done before clubs reaslise they have 100m to spunk away

[Chris cooper]

29 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Obviously selling Rice. They want to get business done before clubs reaslise they have 100m to spunk away

Yeah selling rice was my 1st thought too (cue the jokes) if only we had owners of this magnitude .. ambitious and daring .. club like West Ham is where we should be operating but unfortunately we don’t seem to attract investment of this nature .. puzzled tho cos we have loads to offer in and around the area.

I spose we have to give SR a window before we can adjudicate.. Semmens not  singing the right hymns tho for me.

[LuckyNumber7]

7 minutes ago, Chris cooper said:

Yeah selling rice was my 1st thought too (cue the jokes) if only we had owners of this magnitude .. ambitious and daring .. club like West Ham is where we should be operating but unfortunately we don’t seem to attract investment of this nature .. puzzled tho cos we have loads to offer in and around the area.

I spose we have to give SR a window before we can adjudicate.. Semmens not  singing the right hymns tho for me.

West Ham's average attendance last season was just under 60,000 - third highest in the PL. We can only dream of those figures. 

Like it or not they are on a different level to us now, big London club with much bigger fanbase and stadium - and that in turn attracts more investment. And their fans hate their owners!

[S-Clarke]

47 minutes ago, Chris cooper said:

Yeah selling rice was my 1st thought too (cue the jokes) if only we had owners of this magnitude .. ambitious and daring .. club like West Ham is where we should be operating but unfortunately we don’t seem to attract investment of this nature .. puzzled tho cos we have loads to offer in and around the area.

I spose we have to give SR a window before we can adjudicate.. Semmens not  singing the right hymns tho for me.

I don't think WHU fans would describe their owners as ambitious and daring, quite the opposite! 

You have to remember that WHU talk and they talk a lot without actually doing a great deal. 

[saintwbu]

Also if West Ham are selling their best player in order to fund a move for a slightly less impressive player, for less money - is that not what we do all the time? Seems pretty unambitious on their part. 

[Saint86]

I just think its amusing the amount of hate he's had on this forum over the years. He's going to go down as one of our best premier league players in recent memory, and if he stays for his full career he'll retire a club legend i think.

[Daft Kerplunk]

For his career, he should definitely move. We are stagnant and going to find it difficult to move forward this summer unless we show something that nobody really sees coming, or believes will happen. 
 

Only reason he will stay is that he is really settled in the area and knows he is the chosen one here. 

[Saint86]

44 minutes ago, Daft Kerplunk said:

For his career, he should definitely move. We are stagnant and going to find it difficult to move forward this summer unless we show something that nobody really sees coming, or believes will happen. 
 

Only reason he will stay is that he is really settled in the area and knows he is the chosen one here. 

If he gets his world cup place then I think he might be happy here regardless. He seems content to have such a central position at the club and maybe he really is committed to us in that way. But yes, for his overall career he needs to move - Trophies wise it should be a Chelsea, Liverpool, city move. To just sample a bigger club then someone like spurs pushing for top 4 and champions league football with Conte etc would be a fair move for him. I don't think he'll win much there however. If he moves to a west ham or a villa then it will be more annoying, but still its his career and life and he's give the club a lot.

[dronskisaint]

7 hours ago, Saint86 said:

If he gets his world cup place then I think he might be happy here regardless. He seems content to have such a central position at the club and maybe he really is committed to us in that way. But yes, for his overall career he needs to move - Trophies wise it should be a Chelsea, Liverpool, city move. To just sample a bigger club then someone like spurs pushing for top 4 and champions league football with Conte etc would be a fair move for him. I don't think he'll win much there however. If he moves to a west ham or a villa then it will be more annoying, but still its his career and life and he's give the club a lot.

West Ham and Villa only have a slightly better chance of finishing higher than us.....anything less than a bank/country/corporation owned club in the top four is not really kicking on...not that I want him to go. I hope he stays happy here and we build our next team around him.

[Hodgey]

I’ve said it a lot but I’ve never understood the amount of abuse he got on here, he’s a fantastic player for our level - we’re simply not going to get better. I even remember quite a few on here advocating that Diallo replaced him early on the season as he’s a better player !!

I genuinely think if he goes this year we drop. Losing a captain, top goal scorer and someone that dependable, experienced and committed in our state would be too much.  That said he deserves a shot at a big club - hopefully he gives us another year, we sort ourselves out, get a good price for him, he goes to a top 6 club and everyone is happy.

also a shame that our no 10s are so poor and rarely win free kicks - it’s really another thing to beat them up over. You can be sure that opposition teams are told not to give away free kicks, that should be a massive bonus to our 10s and put defenders on the back foot.

 

[S-Clarke]

15 hours ago, Hodgey said:

I’ve said it a lot but I’ve never understood the amount of abuse he got on here, he’s a fantastic player for our level - we’re simply not going to get better. I even remember quite a few on here advocating that Diallo replaced him early on the season as he’s a better player !!

I genuinely think if he goes this year we drop. Losing a captain, top goal scorer and someone that dependable, experienced and committed in our state would be too much.  That said he deserves a shot at a big club - hopefully he gives us another year, we sort ourselves out, get a good price for him, he goes to a top 6 club and everyone is happy.

also a shame that our no 10s are so poor and rarely win free kicks - it’s really another thing to beat them up over. You can be sure that opposition teams are told not to give away free kicks, that should be a massive bonus to our 10s and put defenders on the back foot.

 

I would agree that one more big sale, when the squad is in the state it currently is, would be curtains for us.

I don't see it happening though, I can't imagine Sports Republic want to start the regime by selling our best player and captain. By all means our model is still going to be selling our best players over time and re-investing, but you have to choose that time carefully. If we have a big summer and end next season which a much better team and more standout players, then it's probably an easier time for him to leave as we could absorb it better.

At the moment you sell him and pretty much start from scratch and that's a lot to do in a single summer.

[saint1977]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

I would agree that one more big sale, when the squad is in the state it currently is, would be curtains for us.

I don't see it happening though, I can't imagine Sports Republic want to start the regime by selling our best player and captain. By all means our model is still going to be selling our best players over time and re-investing, but you have to choose that time carefully. If we have a big summer and end next season which a much better team and more standout players, then it's probably an easier time for him to leave as we could absorb it better.

At the moment you sell him and pretty much start from scratch and that's a lot to do in a single summer.

Agree with this although clearly the club are making noises that 12-15 players are going, probably more than that, and 9, 10, 11 coming in so one does wonder about the budget without a big sale. Although the wage bill is seriously falling and new players first contract in the PL tends to be lower until they prove themselves.

The length of JWP’s contract is a deterrent though as I think clubs were hoping he’d go for £50m but SFC will want a lot more, and the player seems reasonably content.

Romeu has made comments that changes will be made and if they carry on as they it’s curtains next year, so I reckon he will see his final year with us and positive if so. Add KWP, Tino, Salisu (if there is a sale it could him), Perraud, Lyanco (still as 4th CB), JWP, SA and Che…and I reckon that’s what staying. Maybe Tella and McCarthy as well. Theo looks MLS-bound for example and Bednarek has seemingly wanted out for a while, plus Redmond was cited by the Athletic as another probably moving on.

So JWP has another key role with Romeu and KWP, maybe Stuart, in bringing together a new group. Oriel and James are also reminders of the Ronald and in JWP’s case Poch and Adkins eras where much higher standards of professionalism and application were expected. The calibre of players was higher too, but there is no excuse for the Villa game and why came after that. It’s imperative that a couple more experienced faces come in to supplement the senior group.

Edited 28 May, 2022 by saint1977

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

33 minutes ago, saint1977 said:

the club are making noises that 12-15 players are going, probably more than that, and 9, 10, 11 coming in

I didn't see that - is that really the case? You would think if the scale of change is going to be that big, things need to happen soon!

[Matthew Le God]

38 minutes ago, saint1977 said:

Agree with this although clearly the club are making noises that 12-15 players are going

Can you provide a link to these clear noises from the club of 12-15 players leaving?

Do you mean 12 to 15 senior players? Because every season every PL club releases lots of youth players in the under 23s and under 18s whose contracts are expiring.

Edited 28 May, 2022 by Matthew Le God

[Hodgey]

Is our scouting set up good enough for that kind of turnaround at the Mo ?. I’d suggest not and whilst we have a couple out of contract, selling players on big wages is phenomenally difficult - which of course restricts incoming. We just need to get right 4 key positions - ready to play, better than we have. GK, CB, No 10, Striker. That’s a tall ask but we have enough players who can fill in / squad players already and our youngsters look promising so the need for buying potential is lessened.

[Diabolus Ex Machina]

59 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Can you provide a link to these clear noises from the club of 12-15 players leaving?

Do you mean 12 to 15 senior players? Because every season every PL club releases lots of youth players in the under 23s and under 18s whose contracts are expiring.

I don't think there's anything except hearsay about a possible clear out but we have 5 players out of contract/ending a loan (Lewis, Caballero, Forster, Long, Broja) and a further 6 players going into their last year who we might want to get some re-sale value on rather than letting go on a free or signing to a new contract (Valery, Romeu, Redmond, Djenepo, Walcott, Elyounoussi). If Bednarek does want a move as has been rumoured that would take it up to 12 possible exits not even including youngsters or potential loans for the like of Smallbone.

Do I think they'll all go? No but I could easily see 7-9 of that lot not being here next season.

[Matthew Le God]

31 minutes ago, Hodgey said:

Is our scouting set up good enough for that kind of turnaround at the Mo ? I’d suggest not 

What makes you think not? Since Matt Crocker has come in we've been having more hits in the transfer market.

Edited 28 May, 2022 by Matthew Le God

[S-Clarke]

7 minutes ago, Hodgey said:

Is our scouting set up good enough for that kind of turnaround at the Mo ?. I’d suggest not and whilst we have a couple out of contract, selling players on big wages is phenomenally difficult - which of course restricts incoming. We just need to get right 4 key positions - ready to play, better than we have. GK, CB, No 10, Striker. That’s a tall ask but we have enough players who can fill in / squad players already and our youngsters look promising so the need for buying potential is lessened.

I think with the budget they 'were' operating under they've done fairly well. I have more confidence than I did previously.

If you look at our record since Crocker came in and re-shaped the scouting we've brought in Tino, Broja, KWP, Diallo, Salisu, Small, Perreud, Armstrong, Lyanco, Theo

I'd suggest that there were more hits than not in that group. You're never going to get 100% success, but you want to make sure you get the majority right which I think we have. Signing Theo is the only massive blot on their copybook atm.

If you compare it to where we were previously - Adams, Moussa, Armstrong, Redmond, Hoedt, Lemina, Boufal, Vestergaard, Carillo, Ings, Gunn, Elyounoussi- you get the picture! Maybe 3 or 4 successes out of those.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

35 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Tino, Broja, KWP, Diallo, Salisu, Small, Perreud, Armstrong, Lyanco

Tino was good up until his injury, although it was bizarre how Ralph had no regard for protecting him at his age which resulted in the injury

Broja - very good first half of the season

KWP - a hit

Salisu - good but then form dropped

Perraud - acceptable

Small - can't make any judgement

The rest either average at best or bottom 5 fodder

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

I think with the budget they 'were' operating under they've done fairly well. I have more confidence than I did previously.

If you look at our record since Crocker came in and re-shaped the scouting we've brought in Tino, Broja, KWP, Diallo, Salisu, Small, Perreud, Armstrong, Lyanco, Theo

I'd suggest that there were more hits than not in that group. You're never going to get 100% success, but you want to make sure you get the majority right which I think we have. Signing Theo is the only massive blot on their copybook atm.

If you compare it to where we were previously - Adams, Moussa, Armstrong, Redmond, Hoedt, Lemina, Boufal, Vestergaard, Carillo, Ings, Gunn, Elyounoussi- you get the picture! Maybe 3 or 4 successes out of those.

Good point about Crocker. So good, I noticed someone editing their post shortly afterwards to incorporate it. 🙂

[saint1977]

On 28/05/2022 at 11:54, Matthew Le God said:

Can you provide a link to these clear noises from the club of 12-15 players leaving?

Do you mean 12 to 15 senior players? Because every season every PL club releases lots of youth players in the under 23s and under 18s whose contracts are expiring.

I posted a string of them from Saints Extra via Dan Sheldon on Friday night, including one stating that the club were looking for new players in pretty much every position, and another saying that RH could be the only one left in SMS.

Forster gone, Long going, Broja going Redmond and Bednarek and Djenepo linked away, Theo linked with a move to the MLS, Stephens future under doubt (Echo), AA seemingly unsettled, Ely with a year left and no new deal on the table. That’s eight or nine first team squad players without trying. Of course, the club may not shift all of the players it wants to but could be double figures easily plus the u23s etc you mention. Diallo could be an option to cash in on if the club gets its money back, he doesn’t suit RH’s system so as the manager is staying for now it might be in his interests to move on. 

 

 

 

[Toadhall Saint]

Taking money out of the equation who would you be happy for JWP to join? For me if we are to lose him (not saying or thinking we will this year) it would have to be either of Man City or Liverpool as I do not think anything below that would float his boat to be honest.

[danjosaint]

I think he could thrive massively under a better manager like Pep or Klopp, at the moment he does what Ralph wants , keeps the ball, recycles and keeps moving left to right and gets labelled as boring on here, that's from me as well,  bar pace he has all the attributes to be an outstanding box to box midfielder and would be a credit to a top team 

[Toussaint]

3 hours ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Taking money out of the equation who would you be happy for JWP to join? For me if we are to lose him (not saying or thinking we will this year) it would have to be either of Man City or Liverpool as I do not think anything below that would float his boat to be honest.

I wouldn't be offended if he joined any of last season's top 6. Anything other than that I don't see the point, unless money is his major motivation, which I doubt it is.

[Toadhall Saint]

41 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

I wouldn't be offended if he joined any of last season's top 6. Anything other than that I don't see the point, unless money is his major motivation, which I doubt it is.

Personally I don’t think money is his motivation - he’s got enough to last a few lifetimes. So for me the only motivation would be medals/silverware. So at a push I’d add (sorry to say) spurs - I like their manager and he is shrewd in the transfer market plus Kane scores for fun and while they have him they are always in with a chance (not the league) of silverware.

[SNSUN]

Just now, Toadhall Saint said:

Personally I don’t think money is his motivation - he’s got enough to last a few lifetimes. So for me the only motivation would be medals/silverware. So at a push I’d add (sorry to say) spurs - I like their manager and he is shrewd in the transfer market plus Kane scores for fun and while they have him they are always in with a chance (not the league) of silverware.

And perhaps putting himself in a better position to be first choice England midfielder.

 

I wouldn't begrudge him a move as long as we are well financially compensated and not short changed. That means 60 million plus.

[East Kent Saint]

If JWP was snapped up it could be good for Saints if that gave them funds and wage room to change the team . If he went to be a bench warmer or crashed and burned it would be such a waste . Could he be developed into defence splitting mid like Eriksen ?

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

4 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

If JWP was snapped up it could be good for Saints if that gave them funds and wage room to change the team . If he went to be a bench warmer or crashed and burned it would be such a waste . Could he be developed into defence splitting mid like Eriksen ?

He is not the same player as Eriksen at all. Also not in his league by a long margin

[The Left Back]

I don't think he's at the Liverpool or Man City level, though perhaps a replacement for Henderson, who's five years older.  The next layer down is where I think he could be interested.  I could see him at Man U, Chelsea, Spurs or Arsenal. Man U are probably in for a massive overhaul and have a lot of pulling power.  Chelsea and Spurs can offer him champions league.  Arsenal is the dark horse, all depends how well they would sell the club to him.

It comes down entirely to what he wants.  If he's happy to stay then I'd be delighted.  But if he wants to go then for him (peak and WC) and the club (max value) then sadly this is probably the summer to do it. 

 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

I don't think a move will help his England chances at all. He's clearly behind Rice and Phillips in Southgate's mind. Also Henderson is above him just due to the fact of who he is. Like others have suggested, I don't think he's quite good enough for City or Liverpool. Probably not a big enough name for either Chelsea or United. Spurs and Arsenal maybe, but anything underneath that and it's just chasing the cash.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

Yes there would always be an element of chasing the cash (and why not), but he might be tempted to go to a club that is clearly demonstrating an ambition to achieve success - get into Europe, win a cup etc. Saints are pretty much set on a course of "staying in the prem is success". He probably deserves better than that,

[saintadjg]

25 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I don't think a move will help his England chances at all. He's clearly behind Rice and Phillips in Southgate's mind. Also Henderson is above him just due to the fact of who he is. Like others have suggested, I don't think he's quite good enough for City or Liverpool. Probably not a big enough name for either Chelsea or United. Spurs and Arsenal maybe, but anything underneath that and it's just chasing the cash.

If he was at Liverpool I'd put money on him starting for England regularly.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

Just now, saintadjg said:

If he was at Liverpool I'd put money on him starting for England regularly.

yep and all the scouse influenced media would be fawning over him. Also he warms the bench for 2 seasons and remarkably his transfer value actually increases because he has been a part of the best team in the world (to quote michael owen)

[saintadjg]

His assist rate would likely increase quite dramatically with players that actually attack set pieces. I think he'd be a perfect replacement for Henderson, always fit and available  , does whatever is asked. despite what many of our fans think he is far better than just an exceptionally good set piece taker (that our players fail to capitalise on).

[saintwbu]

Also agree he’d replace Henderson just fine at Liverpool, but not sure I see them coming for him. If I was him I think i’d probably be interested in Spurs because he’d probably start most games and under Conte I think they’ve the potential to actually achieve something now. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

yep and all the scouse influenced media would be fawning over him. 

Fuck me, the media fawn all over him already. He doesn’t need to play for Liverpool first that to happen. 

[david in sweden]

He showed up well enough in the Italy game, but must have gone home happier NOT to have been put on the field for that 0-4 debacle.

[Charlie Wayman]

2 hours ago, The Left Back said:

I don't think he's at the Liverpool or Man City level, though perhaps a replacement for Henderson, who's five years older.  The next layer down is where I think he could be interested.  I could see him at Man U, Chelsea, Spurs or Arsenal. Man U are probably in for a massive overhaul and have a lot of pulling power.  Chelsea and Spurs can offer him champions league.  Arsenal is the dark horse, all depends how well they would sell the club to him.

It comes down entirely to what he wants.  If he's happy to stay then I'd be delighted.  But if he wants to go then for him (peak and WC) and the club (max value) then sadly this is probably the summer to do it. 

 

He is not top six material at all and would not be a regular starter for any of them, he is not fast enough or clever enough to oust the myriad of world class midfielders at those clubs. His alleged dead ball kicking brilliance is of scant benefit to clubs that do not rely on set pieces to win matches. His level is Wolves, WHU, Leicester or even Villa but no higher. 

If he was better than that Saints would not be languishing near the bottom of the table year after year.

[cloggy saint]

28 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Fuck me, the media fawn all over him already.

They do? Can't say I've seen much of it.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

10 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

He is not top six material at all and would not be a regular starter for any of them, he is not fast enough or clever enough to oust the myriad of world class midfielders at those clubs. His alleged dead ball kicking brilliance is of scant benefit to clubs that do not rely on set pieces to win matches. His level is Wolves, WHU, Leicester or even Villa but no higher. 

If he was better than that Saints would not be languishing near the bottom of the table year after year.

I always thought that about Le Tissier. Here's a player who'd found his level, I thought. He must have, because we've just escaped the drop again. If he was better, we'd be higher.  No top club will be interested in him. 🙂

[East Kent Saint]

9 hours ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

He is not the same player as Eriksen at all. Also not in his league by a long margin

Quite , which is why I wondered if he could be coached to be if he had a team of top players around him !

[Saint_clark]

The last thing he has left to add to his game after which I think he will reach his peak is the courage to start playing some killer balls through/over the defence. Of course, we need strikers and AMs who will make the bursting runs beyond the defenders for him to be able to do that as well. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

2 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

The last thing he has left to add to his game after which I think he will reach his peak is the courage to start playing some killer balls through/over the defence. Of course, we need strikers and AMs who will make the bursting runs beyond the defenders for him to be able to do that as well. 

Do you think he has the ability to do that?