Saint Charlie Posted 12 May, 2016 Share Posted 12 May, 2016 12/13 PL starts: 4 13/14 PL starts: 16 14/15 PL starts: 16 15/16 PL starts: 14 He will probably be quite frustrated at how his season has gone personally I would imagine. Two key barriers for him IMO: 1. What type of midfielder is he? He isn't a defensive player and isn't an attacking player. He is a technically good passer, but not a creative passer and doesn't have the touches Davis does to get out of tight spaces. Not a tackler, not a presence but does have good energy. Couldn't replace Wanyama, couldn't replace Davis and isn't as effective as Romeu. 2. Physical limitations are tough to overcome He isn't quick, nor strong, not naturally agressive. He never will be. He doesn't win enough duels to play deep unless its in a slow tempo passing game. He hasn't got that burst to get away from a player further up (evidenced against City when he was 1v1 with Mangala and wasn't confident to even try and beat him). Will he kick on? He is in danger of being a set play sub, used when we are behind and looking for good delivery near the end. Possibly harsh, but its hard to see him suddenly starting 20+ PL games next season unless we have big injuries. Which is fine, they aren't all going to be Bale or Shaw quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 12 May, 2016 Share Posted 12 May, 2016 12/13 PL starts: 4 13/14 PL starts: 16 14/15 PL starts: 16 15/16 PL starts: 14 He will probably be quite frustrated at how his season has gone personally I would imagine. Two key barriers for him IMO: 1. What type of midfielder is he? He isn't a defensive player and isn't an attacking player. He is a technically good passer, but not a creative passer and doesn't have the touches Davis does to get out of tight spaces. Not a tackler, not a presence but does have good energy. Couldn't replace Wanyama, couldn't replace Davis and isn't as effective as Romeu. 2. Physical limitations are tough to overcome He isn't quick, nor strong, not naturally agressive. He never will be. He doesn't win enough duels to play deep unless its in a slow tempo passing game. He hasn't got that burst to get away from a player further up (evidenced against City when he was 1v1 with Mangala and wasn't confident to even try and beat him). Will he kick on? He is in danger of being a set play sub, used when we are behind and looking for good delivery near the end. Possibly harsh, but its hard to see him suddenly starting 20+ PL games next season unless we have big injuries. Which is fine, they aren't all going to be Bale or Shaw quality. Yet another slightly disguised moan about something/someone saints...You never let up... Can you not do/say something positive about a player or a club related thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 12 May, 2016 Author Share Posted 12 May, 2016 Yet another slightly disguised moan about something/someone saints...You never let up... Can you not do/say something positive about a player or a club related thing? Its a valid Saints related discussion. How you rate JWP's progression over the last 4 years and his ongoing potential? He isn't doing badly but I'm not sure some expectation of him is realistic based on his capability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 May, 2016 Share Posted 12 May, 2016 Possibly harsh, but its hard to see him suddenly starting 20+ PL games next season unless we have big injuries. Which is fine, they aren't all going to be Bale or Shaw quality. How many 21 year old central midfielders can you name that regularly start for top half Premier League teams? I doubt you'll come up with a big list. Ward-Prowse still very much has age on his side, and is vastly more experienced at PL level than his peers in the England under 21 side he captains. Here is the under 21 squad announced for the summer Toulon tournament, whilst JWP has a large number of minutes for a top 7 Premier League club, the rest are either playing under 21 football for their club or at lower PL or Championship teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 12 May, 2016 Author Share Posted 12 May, 2016 He looks more comfortable in the U21s because the pace is slower and its far less physical. There aren't many U21s who play in the PL, agree with that. But he has been playing at this level for four seasons now. I don't think he has improved much since say the second season where Pochettino used him out wide. Plenty of players get loads of U21 caps and then don't have overly successful careers. David Prutton is one example. Its not an indicator. The best England players usually have very few U21 caps because they largely bypass that age group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 12 May, 2016 Share Posted 12 May, 2016 Do the Beckham stats again MLG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 12 May, 2016 Author Share Posted 12 May, 2016 Do the Beckham stats again MLG. I'm sure he will find in Beckham's fourth season he was a superstar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 May, 2016 Share Posted 12 May, 2016 He looks more comfortable in the U21s because the pace is slower and its far less physical. There aren't many U21s who play in the PL, agree with that. But he has been playing at this level for four seasons now. I don't think he has improved much since say the second season where Pochettino used him out wide. Plenty of players get loads of U21 caps and then don't have overly successful careers. David Prutton is one example. Its not an indicator. The best England players usually have very few U21 caps because they largely bypass that age group. I'll ask again, as I didn't get an answer... How many 21 year old central midfielders can you name that regularly start for top half Premier League teams? I doubt you'll come up with a big list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 12 May, 2016 Share Posted 12 May, 2016 How many 21 year old central midfielders can you name that regularly start for top half Premier League teams? I doubt you'll come up with a big list. Ward-Prowse still very much has age on his side, and is vastly more experienced at PL level than his peers in the England under 21 side he captains. Here is the under 21 squad announced for the summer Toulon tournament, whilst JWP has a large number of minutes for a top 7 Premier League club, the rest are either playing under 21 football for their club or at lower PL or Championship teams. Do the trophy pic again... Fact is he isn't close to a regular starter. Most of his appearances came in the first half of the season due to injuries, suspensions and other contingencies. He's started three games this calendar year -and is no more than a fresh pair of legs at the moment. If Clasie kicks on and can actually finish more than 55-60mins -and indeed play two games in a week and we bring in some competition for Davis (as many on here hope), he'll find his opportunities even more limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 12 May, 2016 Share Posted 12 May, 2016 Its a valid Saints related discussion. How you rate JWP's progression over the last 4 years and his ongoing potential? He isn't doing badly but I'm not sure some expectation of him is realistic based on his capability. It is valid yes, but my point was you always dwell and highlight the less positive aspects of the club, all i was suggesting to you was, i would be nice for you do a more positive analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 12 May, 2016 Author Share Posted 12 May, 2016 It is valid yes, but my point was you always dwell and highlight the less positive aspects of the club, all i was suggesting to you was, i would be nice for you do a more positive analysis. Its my opinion on JWP. I don't need to make it "more positive" if I don't believe it. I did a "nice" one for Wanyama just the other day. Nothing stopping you starting a topic by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 12 May, 2016 Share Posted 12 May, 2016 He'a looked at his best playing in a deep midfield role, unfortunately for obvious reasons has only had one or two games here and there and no run in the team. Could see him fitting in there long term though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 12 May, 2016 Author Share Posted 12 May, 2016 He'a looked at his best playing in a deep midfield role, unfortunately for obvious reasons has only had one or two games here and there and no run in the team. Could see him fitting in there long term though. As a holding player? I think he would be great there in a slower tempo league or in a team that has 70% possession every game but just don't think he does enough defensive basics to do that role in the PL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice2Eskimos Posted 12 May, 2016 Share Posted 12 May, 2016 I honestly don 't know what "type" of a player JWP is supposed to be. He's good on set pieces (compared to the rest of our squad) and corners but that's about it. To be quite honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nta786 Posted 12 May, 2016 Share Posted 12 May, 2016 What he needs is a Dele Alli-esque season, think that is the role of the team he should be aiming for. He is still 21, I have more than hope that he will be a top half Prem player. I don't think he will play for a CL team though- I don't think he'll reach that level, but hope he does- and it is with us! MLG is right, time is on his side, and I'm just hoping that all this accumulating experience will lead to a few top top seasons- ideally he should try this in the 2017/18 season minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 12 May, 2016 Author Share Posted 12 May, 2016 What he needs is a Dele Alli-esque season, think that is the role of the team he should be aiming for. He is still 21, I have more than hope that he will be a top half Prem player. I don't think he will play for a CL team though- I don't think he'll reach that level, but hope he does- and it is with us! MLG is right, time is on his side, and I'm just hoping that all this accumulating experience will lead to a few top top seasons- ideally he should try this in the 2017/18 season minimum. I'm sure he is trying to have that season every season. But he won't have a Dele Alli esque season because he isn't as good as Dele Alli (no shame - few are) and isn't a similar player to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice2Eskimos Posted 12 May, 2016 Share Posted 12 May, 2016 What he needs is a Dele Alli-esque season, think that is the role of the team he should be aiming for. You're f'ng dreaming. Deli Alli?....he's nowhere near and never will be. There honestly isn't another player in that age bracket who even touches Alli. The guy is on another planet altogether..he's something else from anything we've seen since Gazza.. JWP?..not a million years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 12 May, 2016 Share Posted 12 May, 2016 What he needs is a Dele Alli-esque season, think that is the role of the team he should be aiming for. He is still 21, I have more than hope that he will be a top half Prem player. I don't think he will play for a CL team though- I don't think he'll reach that level, but hope he does- and it is with us! MLG is right, time is on his side, and I'm just hoping that all this accumulating experience will lead to a few top top seasons- ideally he should try this in the 2017/18 season minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 12 May, 2016 Share Posted 12 May, 2016 I am certain if we let JWP go he will turn into an amazing midfielder in another team and this will annoy me no end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nta786 Posted 12 May, 2016 Share Posted 12 May, 2016 You're f'ng dreaming. Deli Alli?....he's nowhere near and never will be. There honestly isn't another player in that age bracket who even touches Alli. The guy is on another planet altogether..he's something else from anything we've seen since Gazza.. JWP?..not a million years. Okay and so Jamie Vardy, playing for Halifax town or something at 23/24 years old, the peak of his career supposedly... Guess he never made it to the top... Look all I've said with my post is that JWP should aim for the role Alli has with Spurs, I don't think he's good enough for a defensive/deep role and lacks the pace and ability to beat a man for a wing position. I'm not guaranteeing he will have a season with around 10 goals and 10 assists at one point in his career, but to rule it out for the future is stupid... Also, we'll see how Alli does in the next couple of seasons... High expectations can have dire consequences sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 12 May, 2016 Author Share Posted 12 May, 2016 Okay and so Jamie Vardy, playing for Halifax town or something at 23/24 years old, the peak of his career supposedly... Guess he never made it to the top... Look all I've said with my post is that JWP should aim for the role Alli has with Spurs, I don't think he's good enough for a defensive/deep role and lacks the pace and ability to beat a man for a wing position. I'm not guaranteeing he will have a season with around 10 goals and 10 assists at one point in his career, but to rule it out for the future is stupid... Also, we'll see how Alli does in the next couple of seasons... High expectations can have dire consequences sometimes Alli has physical attributes JWP will never have. This is the problem with JWP. People want him to do more than he is capable of. Hence why every summer people talk of him kicking on. Next season he will probably start another 14-18 games and the cycle will repeat about him being a great prospect, is only 22 etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice2Eskimos Posted 12 May, 2016 Share Posted 12 May, 2016 Alli has physical attributes JWP will never have. This is the problem with JWP. People want him to do more than he is capable of. Hence why every summer people talk of him kicking on. Next season he will probably start another 14-18 games and the cycle will repeat about him being a great prospect, is only 22 etc. Ermmm yes I agree JWP will never anything close to Alli..even the idea is laughable. But this was Bale when we had him: And this was him about a year later: And Now: Not saying that's gonna be JWP but we really need to remind ourselves of what happened with Bale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 12 May, 2016 Share Posted 12 May, 2016 Bale had blistering speed and acceleration though. And he could run up and down that left touchline all day long. You could tell he was a 'freak' back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the saint in winchester Posted 12 May, 2016 Share Posted 12 May, 2016 He's a 'water carrier' as someone once used the term. Moves the ball on to others who do something with it. Neat and tidy passer, takes free kicks into the box. All teams have water carriers. Yes, hopefully he will find something unique about his game soon that sets him apart from others, but right now he seems a bulk standard midfielder, the sort you bring on when another player is out of puff and we need fresh legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 12 May, 2016 Share Posted 12 May, 2016 He's a 'water carrier' as someone once used the term. Moves the ball on to others who do something with it. Neat and tidy passer, takes free kicks into the box. All teams have water carriers. Yes, hopefully he will find something unique about his game soon that sets him apart from others, but right now he seems a bulk standard midfielder, the sort you bring on when another player is out of puff and we need fresh legs. A sort of **** Jack Cork.... JWP gets a far easier ride than some of our player because he is one of our own. If he was called Jamovic Wardich Prowdic and came from eastern Europe he'd be royally slated constantly by our fan base but because he is an academy product we all want him to turn out great. Truth is apart from being a (non-scoring) free kick specialist he really doesn't have an outstanding features to his game. Decent back up squad player who can fill in a few positions on the pitch when injuries kick in but not a starter any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 12 May, 2016 Share Posted 12 May, 2016 How many 21 year old central midfielders can you name that regularly start for top half Premier League teams? I doubt you'll come up with a big list. Ward-Prowse still very much has age on his side, and is vastly more experienced at PL level than his peers in the England under 21 side he captains. Here is the under 21 squad announced for the summer Toulon tournament, whilst JWP has a large number of minutes for a top 7 Premier League club, the rest are either playing under 21 football for their club or at lower PL or Championship teams. Not forgetting of course that a good number who could be in that squad/the Euro 2017 squad are already in the senior England squad (or would be if they weren't injured), Alli, Dier, Shaw, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Berahino, Rashford, Stones, Sterling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appy Posted 12 May, 2016 Share Posted 12 May, 2016 Ermmm yes I agree JWP will never anything close to Alli..even the idea is laughable. But this was Bale when we had him: And this was him about a year later: And Now: Not saying that's gonna be JWP but we really need to remind ourselves of what happened with Bale. That second picture is about 5 years after he left us not 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 12 May, 2016 Share Posted 12 May, 2016 I can't see JWP becoming anything other than a squad utility player, a home grown Rory Delap if you like. He just doesn't have any particular physical attributes and has never imposed himself in any particular role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5string Posted 12 May, 2016 Share Posted 12 May, 2016 Would he be better used as a kind of inside-right? Could be a balance for Tadic on the left? He seems to have pretty good control and we know his delivery is good (especially for a youngster). Could use them both to feed strikers from wide & deep - a bit Beckham-esque I know (but only an idea from a non-expert). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kermitsaint Posted 13 May, 2016 Share Posted 13 May, 2016 It is valid yes, but my point was you always dwell and highlight the less positive aspects of the club, all i was suggesting to you was, i would be nice for you do a more positive analysis. It would also be nice if you offered a valid opinion of your own rather than criticizing someone else for having one ? Personally I just hope Prowse isn't getting paid too much as he is a bit part player . Highly unlikely he will suddenly improve . Would quite happily see him loaned out to the Championship for a few seasons . See , thats an opinion . Now you try it ? Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igsey Posted 13 May, 2016 Share Posted 13 May, 2016 Would he be better used as a kind of inside-right? Could be a balance for Tadic on the left? He seems to have pretty good control and we know his delivery is good (especially for a youngster). Could use them both to feed strikers from wide & deep - a bit Beckham-esque I know (but only an idea from a non-expert). I've seen him play maybe twice on the right in the last couple of years? And I've always thought he looks good there, as you say he has good delivery and control, and he also has a good eye for finding the space. I think once he finds his space in our system he'll do fine. I think the problem we have is that he's more suited to being a standard CM than a defensive mid or attacker - and we don't really play with a CM. A couple of games this season he's come on and really impressed when he's more aggressive - especially against Liverpool at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austsaint Posted 13 May, 2016 Share Posted 13 May, 2016 Bog standard poster boy for the Academy - sooner or later, he won't have youth on his side and his limited game will be increasingly questioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 13 May, 2016 Share Posted 13 May, 2016 It would also be nice if you offered a valid opinion of your own rather than criticizing someone else for having one Personally I just hope Prowse isn't getting paid too much as he is a bit part player . Highly unlikely he will suddenly improve . Would quite happily see him loaned out to the Championship for a few seasons . See , thats an opinion . Now you try it Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk It would also be nice if you never appeared on this forum again but we can all have what we want can we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kermitsaint Posted 13 May, 2016 Share Posted 13 May, 2016 Still no opinion on the forum thread ? So strange . Totally unlike you . Have you considered your own forum where you are the only member ? At least there you wouldn't have to tell other posters off constantly Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Armstrong Posted 13 May, 2016 Share Posted 13 May, 2016 Can you post a thread saying Sadio, Victor and the Koeman brothers need to kick on too, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky_Mark Posted 13 May, 2016 Share Posted 13 May, 2016 When do we start to realise that being good from dead ball situations is all he can offer us, he really struggles for me and I think we will see people like Slattery when fit, bypass him in the next year or so. Also, 21 is still young but he's been around the Prem & 1st team enough now for us not to regard his as a young player finding his way. He should get the league now and be able to meet the demands and for me he doesn't do that, and whether that's a physical problem or whether it just comes down to ability, I'm not sure, I'd love to be proven wrong but I just can't see how he can become a regularly starter/off the bench impact player for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint IQ Posted 13 May, 2016 Share Posted 13 May, 2016 How many 21 year old central midfielders can you name that regularly start for top half Premier League teams? I doubt you'll come up with a big list. Ward-Prowse still very much has age on his side, and is vastly more experienced at PL level than his peers in the England under 21 side he captains. Here is the under 21 squad announced for the summer Toulon tournament, whilst JWP has a large number of minutes for a top 7 Premier League club, the rest are either playing under 21 football for their club or at lower PL or Championship teams. Isnt that John Swift from Gosport? Was on Pompeys books then apparently we tried to get him but Chelsea offered him ridiculous wages to go there. Standard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 13 May, 2016 Author Share Posted 13 May, 2016 Can you post a thread saying Sadio, Victor and the Koeman brothers need to kick on too, please? Haha, wish it were them instead to be honest. JWP only signed a new 5 year deal recently and hasn't done a lot since then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint IQ Posted 13 May, 2016 Share Posted 13 May, 2016 (edited) On JWP if he was starting every game for a top 8 club in this league at his age he would be on the level of Scholes, Beckham Lampard and Gerrard....Englands best midfielder's for that generation. Sadly he's not on that level but if he was he would be off to one of the big clubs so good. You could also argue that back in the late 90s early 2000s that it would of been easier for those 4 to start every week with less money, less foreign imports and smaller squads in the league than we have currently. One would be a fool to write him off so early in his career. Edited 13 May, 2016 by Saint IQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 13 May, 2016 Share Posted 13 May, 2016 Still no opinion on the forum thread ? So strange . Totally unlike you . Have you considered your own forum where you are the only member ? At least there you wouldn't have to tell other posters off constantly Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk Still here ????....oh well.... but we are fortunate you only have 3 posts a day, so waste if them all on me and we dont have to read the normal drivel that way....win....win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the saint in winchester Posted 13 May, 2016 Share Posted 13 May, 2016 Seems the club management rate him very highly after an improved and extended contract. Let's hope he is a star at the U21 Tournament and we see where he can fit in better for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 13 May, 2016 Share Posted 13 May, 2016 Seems the club management rate him very highly after an improved and extended contract. Let's hope he is a star at the U21 Tournament and we see where he can fit in better for us. Stick my neck out here but think he could be a long term replacement for SD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint IQ Posted 13 May, 2016 Share Posted 13 May, 2016 Stick my neck out here but think he could be a long term replacement for SD. Personally I think he's better in a deeper role with a "destroyer" alongside him as he has effected games with his quicker more incisive passing than the other DM when we need a goal or two. Did very well when he came on against Chelsea if I recall correctly. Due to his lack of pace and strength perhaps he could try and become the English Joe Allen oh I meant Xavi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 13 May, 2016 Share Posted 13 May, 2016 Yet another slightly disguised moan about something/someone saints...You never let up... Can you not do/say something positive about a player or a club related thing? Why don't you stop trolling him and put him on ignore then? At least put the silly, playground rivalry aside and play the post instead of the man. The OP is a valid one with explanation to justify the guy's opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 13 May, 2016 Share Posted 13 May, 2016 Why don't you stop trolling him and put him on ignore then? At least put the silly, playground rivalry aside and play the post instead of the man. The OP is a valid one with explanation to justify the guy's opinion. Thanks for the advice,but.. nah i will carry on as I choose... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 13 May, 2016 Share Posted 13 May, 2016 Thanks for the advice,but.. nah i will carry on as I choose... cogito ergo sum spoken like a true mongboarder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 29 May, 2016 Share Posted 29 May, 2016 JWP just got a lot stronger after lifting that massive Toulon tournament cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Saint_G Posted 29 May, 2016 Share Posted 29 May, 2016 Similar to my thoughts on the Isgrove post, I think JWP could really do with a 20+ game season in the Championship. Toughen him up a bit (he's never going to be a ball winning DM, but could still do with learning how to mix it up a bit better). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 29 May, 2016 Share Posted 29 May, 2016 Similar to my thoughts on the Isgrove post, I think JWP could really do with a 20+ game season in the Championship. Toughen him up a bit (he's never going to be a ball winning DM, but could still do with learning how to mix it up a bit better). Why on earth does he need to go to the Championship? He is 21 and has already played over 100 games for a team that is now an established top half side of the Premier League. Going to the Championship now would be a regression, not an aid to development. In order to be a top 6 side like we are we need a squad of quality players, Ward-Prowse won't start many games, but is still very useful at Premier League level despite what many Saints fans think and only 5 Saints players (van Dijk, S.Davis, Mane, Tadic & Fonte) featured in more games than JWP this season. If he left who fills the gametime he would be used for next season in the first team? Its central midfielders like Harrison Reed that need a loan, not JWP who has proven his worth in the Premier League. Just because he isn't a first choice starter, that doesn't mean he isn't of good quality in this league, Pochettino and Koeman seem to agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cool Posted 29 May, 2016 Share Posted 29 May, 2016 Well done James (and Matt and Jack)... http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36410296 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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