jamesfp1 Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 All this fuss because of the Everton result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry the Badger Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 Nope. If we finish 6th, we'd DEFINITELY want Man United to win the FA Cup as then the 6th place in the league would be an automatic group stage spot. Oh well, come on you Red Devils (shudder) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 8 May, 2016 Author Share Posted 8 May, 2016 (edited) So 6th spot, as far as I can tell, will mean we qualify automatically for the Group Stages IF Man Utd win the FA Cup. If Palace win the FA Cup and we finish 6th, then we'll play in the third qualifying round. And I am right in saying that if we finish 6th, Palace win the FA Cup and Liverpool finish 7th and win the Europa League, then we don't get a spot at all? No, we'll get a 3rd Qualifying Round place because Liverpool won't have an EL spot to lose - they can only lose an EL place for England if they have it to convert to an extra CL spot. If they finish below us, they won't have the EL spot and it stays as 3 EL qualifiers. Edited 8 May, 2016 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 I believe so, plus we also won a round v Vitesse which counts towards it. Think our standard coefficient last year was approx 16, and by beating Vitesse we would have gained a small additional value, so maybe next season our coefficient would be closer to 17. Won't make a huge amount of difference but if we're in the qualifying rounds in could make a significant difference between being seeded or unseeded, as I think this year we were on the cusp! Each club's coefficient score is based on the points they have earned in the previous five years plus 20% of the nation coefficient score. As we hadn't played in Europe in the previous 5 years, our score was entirely comprised of that 20%, which gave us a score of 16.078 (from a total of 80.39). HOWEVER, the first of the five years that were counted for this season's score (2010/11) was a particularly good year for English clubs in Europe, and that score will drop off of the scale this summer. If Liverpool were to lose to Sevilla in the Europa League final, the total English coefficient for 2015/16 (basically all the coefficient points earned by the 8 competing clubs divided by the number of clubs) will be 14.25, or 14.5 if they win it. That compares to the 18.357 we earned in 2010/11, which will no longer count. Quite a steep drop, hence why there was a concern about losing a Champions League place to Italy - as it turns out, English clubs outperformed Italian clubs this year, but Italy gains another 4 points on us NEXT summer, so it's pretty important our clubs do better across the board next season. If Liverpool lose the EL final, the overall score for English clubs will be 76.284, or 76.309 if they win. 20% of that is either 15.257 or 15.262. We earned a whopping 2.5 points in this season's competition, so our score will be either 17.757 or 17.762 if we qualify - a reasonable increase because we get to use 100% of our own points, and 20% of the nation's score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 8 May, 2016 Author Share Posted 8 May, 2016 (edited) Coefficient here http://m.footballseeding.com/club-ranking/a2015-2016/ Ours is 16.756 at the moment, up a little from last year, though it's barely enough to make a difference and will depend more on who else gets through. And as Steve says, it'll change depending on Liverpool's result. And I think that data still includes the 2010/11 figures which haven't been discounted, along with 2015/16 points for now. Edited 9 May, 2016 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Armstrong Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 9 May, 2016 Share Posted 9 May, 2016 Oh well, come on you Red Devils (shudder) You can practice before the final by cheering them on against West Ham. http://store.manutd.com/stores/manutd/en/c/fashion/accessories/scarves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Biscuits Posted 9 May, 2016 Share Posted 9 May, 2016 I just went out into the garden and had a small practice cheer on my own. Next doors dog started howling, several birds attacked me and a badger gave me a very disappointed look. I CAN'T DO IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Tony Posted 9 May, 2016 Share Posted 9 May, 2016 All this fuss because of the Everton result. Agree, easily the worst result of the season for me. They'd rested key players and were there for the taking, still wondering how we failed to beat them Still, I can't see West Ham and Liverpool both taking maximum points ( although I doubt many saw us taking 6 from Man City/Spurs!) Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 9 May, 2016 Share Posted 9 May, 2016 So is 7th spot no good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JxgrSaint Posted 9 May, 2016 Share Posted 9 May, 2016 So is 7th spot no good? Depends who wins the FA Cup - if United we would get Europa, if Palace we wouldn't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 9 May, 2016 Share Posted 9 May, 2016 Depends who wins the FA Cup - if United we would get Europa, if Palace we wouldn't... Which is why I'm temporarily a Man U fan. I've booked in for therapy once the cup final is over. ? Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint IQ Posted 9 May, 2016 Share Posted 9 May, 2016 The bottom line is we want Utd to win their remaining matches, and Palace to lose theirs. Come on Utd! No as if United lose their last 2 and West ham lose to stoke and we beat Palace we finish 5th if Liverpool don't win their last 2, 6th if they do. FA cup result won't even matter That's what I'm hoping for, 5th. (Where we should of finished last season with the goal difference far exceeding the two above us) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO16_Saint Posted 9 May, 2016 Share Posted 9 May, 2016 No as if United lose their last 2 and West ham lose to stoke and we beat Palace we finish 5th if Liverpool don't win their last 2, 6th if they do. FA cup result won't even matter That's what I'm hoping for, 5th. (Where we should of finished last season with the goal difference far exceeding the two above us) Stick a £5 on those results coming in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 9 May, 2016 Share Posted 9 May, 2016 Depends who wins the FA Cup - if United we would get Europa, if Palace we wouldn't... Straight in or qualifying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 9 May, 2016 Share Posted 9 May, 2016 Straight in or qualifying? 6th straight in, 7th qualifying, if Man U win Cup. If Scousers win EL, it all changes again Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picard Posted 9 May, 2016 Share Posted 9 May, 2016 We earned a whopping 2.5 points in this season's competition, so our score will be either 17.757 or 17.762 if we qualify - a reasonable increase because we get to use 100% of our own points, and 20% of the nation's score. UEFA has two ways of calculating points for teams: one for the team coefficient and one for the country coefficient. 2.5 is Saints' points contribution to the country coefficient. For the team coefficient we only got 1.5 points. http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/tcoef2016.html West Ham and Southampton between them brought the country coefficient way down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 9 May, 2016 Share Posted 9 May, 2016 I just went out into the garden and had a small practice cheer on my own. Next doors dog started howling, several birds attacked me and a badger gave me a very disappointed look. I CAN'T DO IT I had a practice too, found myself saying to a United fan at work "just in case we need a favour, good luck in the Cup Final" I felt dirty afterwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO16_Saint Posted 9 May, 2016 Share Posted 9 May, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 9 May, 2016 Author Share Posted 9 May, 2016 Quality flow chart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 9 May, 2016 Share Posted 9 May, 2016 Did we enter at the third qualifying round last season, then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets B Avenue Posted 9 May, 2016 Share Posted 9 May, 2016 Did we enter at the third qualifying round last season, then? Yep v Vitesse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 9 May, 2016 Share Posted 9 May, 2016 Yep v Vitesse. Thanks. Just had to check how it works - no one qualifies for the fourth qualifying round in isolation, just the rejects from the CL qualifying and the winners from the third EL qualifying. Once we are European mega-regulars this will all come naturally..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets B Avenue Posted 9 May, 2016 Share Posted 9 May, 2016 Won't be playing Vitesse this year. They finished 9th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 9 May, 2016 Share Posted 9 May, 2016 Won't be playing Vitesse this year. They finished 9th. I fancy somewhere in Spain or Italy please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 9 May, 2016 Share Posted 9 May, 2016 I fancy somewhere in Spain or Italy please. If its the qualifiers then someone **** is what we will all hope for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslo Posted 10 May, 2016 Share Posted 10 May, 2016 (edited) Am I right in believing that, IF we qualify for Europa League, our coeffecient will be slightly higher due to qualifying last year? Yes. Our coefficient is currently 16.756 instead of 15.256. It can go up slightly if Liverpool win the EL. http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/trank2016.html Edited 10 May, 2016 by Redslo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslo Posted 10 May, 2016 Share Posted 10 May, 2016 I think the FA Cup final is key - as long as Utd win it won't matter if City or Utd finish 5th in the Prem, either will have qualified for the Europa by way of a cup win, and the second EL qualification place, released by the 4th placed team gaining an ECL slot, slips to the 6th placed team. This, I think, caters for consequences of Liverpool winning the Europa League, and thereby going into the ECL - leaving England with 5 ECL and 2 EL qualifiers. IMO, the midweek games need to produce a Man Utd win and a Liverpool draw ( or defeat ). In that situation, provided we beat Palace, I reckon the Premier League table & consequent European places would be; 1) Leics - ECL group stage 2) Spuds - ECL group stage 3) Arse - ECL group stage 4) Man ( Utd or City ) - ECL playoff round 5) Man ( Utd or City ) - EL group stage 6) Saints - EL group stage 7th or 8th ) L'pool - ECL group stage or EL 3rd qualifying round or nowhere depending on whether they win EL or come in 8th 7th or 8th ) WHU - nowhere or EL 3rd qualifying round if they come in 7th I have made corrections in bold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslo Posted 10 May, 2016 Share Posted 10 May, 2016 But if we can somehow get 6th we could all support palace in the cup final, which would make me feel less dirty. Only if you want us to start in the EL 3rd qualifying round instead of the group stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslo Posted 10 May, 2016 Share Posted 10 May, 2016 (edited) Each club's coefficient score is based on the points they have earned in the previous five years plus 20% of the nation coefficient score. As we hadn't played in Europe in the previous 5 years, our score was entirely comprised of that 20%, which gave us a score of 16.078 (from a total of 80.39). HOWEVER, the first of the five years that were counted for this season's score (2010/11) was a particularly good year for English clubs in Europe, and that score will drop off of the scale this summer. If Liverpool were to lose to Sevilla in the Europa League final, the total English coefficient for 2015/16 (basically all the coefficient points earned by the 8 competing clubs divided by the number of clubs) will be 14.25, or 14.5 if they win it. That compares to the 18.357 we earned in 2010/11, which will no longer count. Quite a steep drop, hence why there was a concern about losing a Champions League place to Italy - as it turns out, English clubs outperformed Italian clubs this year, but Italy gains another 4 points on us NEXT summer, so it's pretty important our clubs do better across the board next season. If Liverpool lose the EL final, the overall score for English clubs will be 76.284, or 76.309 if they win. 20% of that is either 15.257 or 15.262. We earned a whopping 2.5 points in this season's competition, so our score will be either 17.757 or 17.762 if we qualify - a reasonable increase because we get to use 100% of our own points, and 20% of the nation's score. That is not quite how it works We earned 2.5 points that are used in determining England coefficient but in terms of calculating our own coefficient we only earned 1.5 points for advancing to the fourth playoff round. Despite earning more points for England, West Ham only earned 1.0 point for themselves because they only advanced to the third playoff round. http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/tcoef2016.html http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/calc.html UEFA has two ways of calculating points for teams: one for the team coefficient and one for the country coefficient. 2.5 is Saints' points contribution to the country coefficient. For the team coefficient we only got 1.5 points. http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/tcoef2016.html West Ham and Southampton between them brought the country coefficient way down. Should have read further before I posted. Edited 10 May, 2016 by Redslo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabrone Posted 21 May, 2016 Share Posted 21 May, 2016 Well done Man U At least we're in the group stages now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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