shurlock Posted 24 April, 2016 Share Posted 24 April, 2016 Where do people stand on the Romeu vs Clasie debate? Thought Romeu played well yesterday and has arguably been unlucky not to start more games. Going forward and assuming Wanyama leaves, can we rely on a Romeu or Clasie partnership, bearing both will have a full season under their belts? If not, what kind of CM would complement each? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 24 April, 2016 Share Posted 24 April, 2016 I marginally prefer Romeu. I don't think they are a physically strong enough pairing together. Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanimal Posted 24 April, 2016 Share Posted 24 April, 2016 Would be OK if OR was allowed to go forward more as he is stronger, drives in and has a good shot on him, not seen any of that from Clasie. But in future could see those two with JWP working well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 24 April, 2016 Share Posted 24 April, 2016 Thought it was more Victor or Romeu debate and a Clasie or Jwp debate personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 24 April, 2016 Author Share Posted 24 April, 2016 Thought it was more Victor or Romeu debate and a Clasie or Jwp debate personally. That's not how RK saw it yesterday or on other occasions this season. Are Romeu and Clasie a viable pairing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 24 April, 2016 Share Posted 24 April, 2016 Surely that decision is more about tactical choices than specific personnel, Clasie is more box to box and similar to Ward-Prowse, Romeu more defensive, like Wanyama. It's more about whether we go with 2 DM or 1 DM and (at least) one CM. Last season it was more like 2 DMs (though Schneiderlin had his moments going forward too), this season we've not had his all-round ability in the position so we've had to pick a style, and usually gone with the less defensive option. I can only assume yesterday the absence of Pellè meant Long wasn't asked to defend and as a result we shored it up with two defensively minded midfielders in the middle. I've only seen highlights but when I saw we'd conceded first half against Villa I wasn't surprised to see Wanyama go off given his tendency not to give his all against teams he doesn't want to sign for and our likely need to find a way to get results without him next season. Yesterday was the best chance to experiment in a competitive game we'll get unless we're 3 points away from everyone by the time we play Palace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 24 April, 2016 Share Posted 24 April, 2016 (edited) For me Romeu and Clasie as a pairing isn't athletic enough and is very easy to counter. Incidentally we have conceded the most counter attack goals this season. I think Romeu and Clasie are very different players but about the same standard. I think we need a more energetic box to box type midfielder to go alongside one of them. Gana for Villa yesterday looked ok in a very poor team. Clasie has been a disappointment for me. Thought he would be more creative with his passing and more positive with his movement but he still seems quite tentative. He presses well but is also easy for opponents to leave for dead and he doesn't really provide any "protection" for the back four. Wanyama, Schneiderlin and Davis just worked, with a range of the needed attributes. I don't think either Romeu or Clasie have replaced Morgan's energy and agility. Edited 24 April, 2016 by Saint Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 24 April, 2016 Author Share Posted 24 April, 2016 (edited) Clasie box to box? Perhaps he has that in the locker but hasn't shown it whatsoever so far. I've seen Romeu drive with and without the ball far more often. His problem is his mobility in recovery and against counters. Edited 24 April, 2016 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 24 April, 2016 Share Posted 24 April, 2016 Surely that decision is more about tactical choices than specific personnel, Clasie is more box to box and similar to Ward-Prowse, Romeu more defensive, like Wanyama. Clasie isn't anything like box to box. He sits (very) deep and takes the ball off the back four and starts attacks. Or he drops in and fills the gap left by VVD when he brings the ball out. I can't recall a time in open play he has been near the opponents box and made a telling impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 24 April, 2016 Share Posted 24 April, 2016 I prefer Romeu clasie is a bit 'meh' for me. just a busy little player. Loads of them about clasie box to box? jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 24 April, 2016 Share Posted 24 April, 2016 That's not how RK saw it yesterday or on other occasions this season. Are Romeu and Clasie a viable pairing? yes IMO. A midfield pairing of Victor/Romeu and Clasie/JWP is the way to go. Personally I'd have Claise over JWP and Victor over Romeu. I've seen enough of Romeu, however, to be happy with him playing instead of Victor. With Victor 99.9% gone this summer I fully expect us to sign another DM so I'll judge the best pairing for next season after the transfer window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Billy Posted 24 April, 2016 Share Posted 24 April, 2016 Imo neither of them do it for me. I think our midfield needs a total makeover in the summer especially if Vic goes. If pushed I would keep Romeu for his defensive midfield play but we do need a more creative midfielder who can deliver that telling pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice2Eskimos Posted 24 April, 2016 Share Posted 24 April, 2016 Romeu is far better. Clasie offers nothing imo. He's too small. He needs to get on the weights, Ideally he needs to gain another 2 stone but because he's so short that would put him well over weight. He needs another stone on him, he's getting pushed off the ball far too easily. Until he stops getting pushed off the ball and generally invisible on the pitch...he offers nothing at all. I thought that as soon as we signed him, size would be an issue straight away. This is the BPL not the Dutch League. Romeu is quality and if we lost Wanyama (dare I say it) ..Romeu could step up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 24 April, 2016 Share Posted 24 April, 2016 Imo neither of them do it for me. I think our midfield needs a total makeover in the summer especially if Vic goes. If pushed I would keep Romeu for his defensive midfield play but we do need a more creative midfielder who can deliver that telling pass. A player in the style of Dembele would be ideal: strong, mobile, energetic, but also creative in passing and movement. Not many around though in our budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 24 April, 2016 Share Posted 24 April, 2016 Romeu is far better. Clasie offers nothing imo. He's too small. He needs to get on the weights, Ideally he needs to gain another 2 stone but because he's so short that would put him well over weight. He needs another stone on him, he's getting pushed off the ball far too easily. Until he stops getting pushed off the ball and generally invisible on the pitch...he offers nothing at all. I thought that as soon as we signed him, size would be an issue straight away. This is the BPL not the Dutch League. Romeu is quality and if we lost Wanyama (dare I say it) ..Romeu could step up. Kante, or any number of small midfielders, counter the size argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pass the Dutchie Posted 24 April, 2016 Share Posted 24 April, 2016 And Clasie being the best player on the field in some (two or three) games counters the rest. He still needs to become better and more consistent, yes. But he's shown that he has the potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 24 April, 2016 Share Posted 24 April, 2016 And Clasie being the best player on the field in some (two or three) games counters the rest. He still needs to become better and more consistent, yes. But he's shown that he has the potential. what games were these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted 24 April, 2016 Share Posted 24 April, 2016 Think both Clasie and Romeu have potential. I have been somewhat won over by Romeu the more i see of him. He's cut out the stupid wild lunges that could have earned him straight reds. Clasie on the otherhand has taken some time to adjust to the premier league. At times he oozes class whilst at other times he's gone missing. Given that Vic leaves as expected i think the pair have the potential as a combination. If Koeman stays i assume we'll go after another big man to compete with Romeu, whilst you would hope JWP would compete with Clasie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 24 April, 2016 Share Posted 24 April, 2016 Yawn. People seem to wipe Clasies quality performances from their minds one week on. Thank god the coaching staff can see how good he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 24 April, 2016 Share Posted 24 April, 2016 (edited) Yawn. People seem to wipe Clasies quality performances from their minds one week on. Thank god the coaching staff can see how good he is. The same coaching staff that put him on the bench this week in a game described as a "must win"? Edited 24 April, 2016 by Batman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice2Eskimos Posted 24 April, 2016 Share Posted 24 April, 2016 Kante, or any number of small midfielders, counter the size argument. Are you seriously comparing Clasie with Kante?.. Might be the same size but Kante is in another stratosphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanimal Posted 24 April, 2016 Share Posted 24 April, 2016 Victor was carrying the injury from last week (hospital) then got taken out by Hutton? yesterday thats why he got taken off, not because he wasn't interested FGS!!. Jesus some people….. see anything and twist it to suit stupid petty agendas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 24 April, 2016 Share Posted 24 April, 2016 Victor was carrying the injury from last week (hospital) then got taken out by Hutton? yesterday thats why he got taken off, not because he wasn't interested FGS!!. Jesus some people….. see anything and twist it to suit stupid petty agendas. He clearly took a heavy knock about 5mins before the end of the first half. Looked like his ankle. Koeman always says Wanyama is "normally a starting player" and its obvious why: he is (by a distance) the best defensive midfielder we have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchris Posted 24 April, 2016 Share Posted 24 April, 2016 Clasie has been a dissapointment really and won't take us to the promised land... Prefer Romeu.. For same reasons many have suggested... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 24 April, 2016 Share Posted 24 April, 2016 He clearly took a heavy knock about 5mins before the end of the first half. Looked like his ankle. Koeman always says Wanyama is "normally a starting player" and its obvious why: he is (by a distance) the best defensive midfielder we have except when he is sulking or suspended.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 24 April, 2016 Share Posted 24 April, 2016 Romeu** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbury Posted 24 April, 2016 Share Posted 24 April, 2016 Romeu is prepared to make quick, forward passes. Sometimes with Claise, and the rest of the midfield, I want to bite my head off with the constant Ray Wilkins play. I've seen Clasie play short balls to Vic, somehow expecting him to develop play, but that never happens. Why can't he demand the one-two with him, or just bring it forward. Having said that, commentators often confuse Davis and Clasie, and I do too. None of them are bad, but I think Romeu is the most likely to create something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 24 April, 2016 Share Posted 24 April, 2016 Clasie isn't anything like box to box. He sits (very) deep and takes the ball off the back four and starts attacks. Or he drops in and fills the gap left by VVD when he brings the ball out. I can't recall a time in open play he has been near the opponents box and made a telling impact. Agree with you on the last point, he tends to play the ball earlier rather than bringing it out in the way Ward-Prowse can do, suppose I meant a slightly more pass-capable linking player who starts in a defensive position, rather than a running with the ball type. That is why we have all of them, they're not exactly the same kind of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USA SaintsFan Posted 25 April, 2016 Share Posted 25 April, 2016 I would like to see Romeu tried in the AM role. In a few games he has shown he has the aggressiveness and talent to play as a box to box midfielder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 25 April, 2016 Share Posted 25 April, 2016 Are you seriously comparing Clasie with Kante?.. Might be the same size but Kante is in another stratosphere. The answer is out there.....in the stratosphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
way down south Posted 25 April, 2016 Share Posted 25 April, 2016 romeu I think has got a bit of everything a cm needs physicality, good passing and a good shot, don't know what more ron need to see to play him instead of clasie alongside wanyama, jury's out on jwp, nothing special except set pieces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 25 April, 2016 Share Posted 25 April, 2016 romeu I think has got a bit of everything a cm needs physicality, good passing and a good shot, don't know what more ron need to see to play him instead of clasie alongside wanyama, jury's out on jwp, nothing special except set pieces Romeu is slow to turn and recover. That is why I think. Wanyama and Romeu together isn't agile enough. Agility and athleticism is the missing variable whoever plays IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted 25 April, 2016 Share Posted 25 April, 2016 Clasie will be our player of the season next season, he has a touch of class that reminds me of Morgan. Especially when it comes to positioning and first touch. He's had a poorish season due to injuries but has shown enough to give me full confidence. Romeu is adequate cover for vic, but like him lacks in intelligence on the ball so has to put in extra work to win it back. Funnily enough the fact that Romeu tears around covering his own mistakes and clasie looks more silent due to his better positioning is why many saints fans prefer the weaker of the two players. Still I'm happy that the people that are employed to do it select the team and not our fanbase that've been consistently wrong about various players, from Morgan to Pelle b Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 25 April, 2016 Share Posted 25 April, 2016 Clasie will be our player of the season next season, he has a touch of class that reminds me of Morgan. Especially when it comes to positioning and first touch. He's had a poorish season due to injuries but has shown enough to give me full confidence. Romeu is adequate cover for vic, but like him lacks in intelligence on the ball so has to put in extra work to win it back. Funnily enough the fact that Romeu tears around covering his own mistakes and clasie looks more silent due to his better positioning is why many saints fans prefer the weaker of the two players. Still I'm happy that the people that are employed to do it select the team and not our fanbase that've been consistently wrong about various players, from Morgan to Pelle b Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk After signing from the French second-tier side Le Havre in January 2014 Mahrez made a steady rather than spectacular start to life in England... now PFA player of the year. It would be fantastic if Clasie can have a similar impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 25 April, 2016 Share Posted 25 April, 2016 Clasie will be our player of the season next season, he has a touch of class that reminds me of Morgan. Especially when it comes to positioning and first touch. He's had a poorish season due to injuries but has shown enough to give me full confidence He hasn't been injured since late October really. If you feel that he has had a "poorish season" you can't blame that on a 2 month injury right at the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanh Posted 25 April, 2016 Share Posted 25 April, 2016 The Dutch posters on here all said that Clasie would take a year to get up to speed in the Prem and he said himself that he needed to get stronger after playing a few matches and seeing what was required physically. I think he has improved steadily since Christmas and assuming he gets an injury free pre season then hopefully he can start to have more impact on matches next season. I like his instinct to pass the ball forward early. JWP, for his other attributes, tends to need time to pick a pass and seems to choose the more conservative option of a sideways ball more often than Clasie. To answer the original question, I think a Romeu and Clasie pairing would be weaker than VW and Clasie, but might develop into a strong enough partnership if given games together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Kint Posted 25 April, 2016 Share Posted 25 April, 2016 Clasie's passing is better than the other midfielders combined. He can actually play it first time and forwards, which most of the others are incapable of. He lacks athleticism and that will be key when finding a Wanyama replacement, but there are far worse partnerships than Romeu and Clasie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 25 April, 2016 Author Share Posted 25 April, 2016 Clasie's passing is better than the other midfielders combined. He can actually play it first time and forwards, which most of the others are incapable of. He lacks athleticism and that will be key when finding a Wanyama replacement, but there are far worse partnerships than Romeu and Clasie Don't underestimate Romeu's passing. Saw him him ping some lovely first time balls on Saturday, including one where his back was turned, he spun and in the same motion found someone in his peripheral vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 25 April, 2016 Share Posted 25 April, 2016 Romeu is more powerful. I'd like to see Romeu with a Schneiderlin type, someone who can pass but isn't lightweight. Romeu has something, he's come through Barcelona and Chelsea saw something. I think he could grab a few goals too if given a decent run, he has a good shot on him. Definitely prefer him to Clasie. The massive difference between Romeu and Schnedierlin is agility, athleticism and ability to cover ground for 90mins. Romeu is a good player but different attributes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice2Eskimos Posted 25 April, 2016 Share Posted 25 April, 2016 Clasie is the one player who can pick a first time pass out of our midfielders, but Romeo is more of a complete midfielder. I think we should sign martins Indi and put VVD in DM with Wanyama (if he stays). For me we need more athletic players in our team and especially midfield. That would be a major clusterf*ck problem we'd be causing ourselves if we took VVD out of defence. The man is immense at the back and if I'm honest, he's wiped Fonte's arse a few times this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted 25 April, 2016 Share Posted 25 April, 2016 Would it be worth considering Claisie for an attacking midfielder role, in the number 10 behind the striker? Or do you think we'd lose too much attacking ability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donatello Posted 25 April, 2016 Share Posted 25 April, 2016 Clasie will be our player of the season next season, he has a touch of class that reminds me of Morgan. Especially when it comes to positioning and first touch. He's had a poorish season due to injuries but has shown enough to give me full confidence. Romeu is adequate cover for vic, but like him lacks in intelligence on the ball so has to put in extra work to win it back. Funnily enough the fact that Romeu tears around covering his own mistakes and clasie looks more silent due to his better positioning is why many saints fans prefer the weaker of the two players. Still I'm happy that the people that are employed to do it select the team and not our fanbase that've been consistently wrong about various players, from Morgan to Pelle b Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint-crinny Posted 25 April, 2016 Share Posted 25 April, 2016 Feel like I want to stick with Clasie for another season as i'm sure he can progress to be better than Romeu. Ultimately hoping this debate is irrelevant because if/when Vic leaves in the summer, it makes me feel a bit ill that we might decide not to replace him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordic Saint Posted 25 April, 2016 Share Posted 25 April, 2016 Romeu. At least he can tackle and do some defensive work. Contrary to the myth, passing stats for Wanyama, Romeu and Clasie actually show that Wanyama (rating 6.98) is the best passer and Clasie (6.70) is the worst. I think some people notice Clasie's passing more because it's all he does, whereas Wanyama and Romeu do a lot of tackling and intercepting as well during a game. Fans of Clasie say he makes telling passes, but that appears to be a myth too as I can't recall him having a single assist all season. Complete analysis here: www.whoscored.com/Players/90802/Show/Jordy-Clasie www.whoscored.com/Players/71714 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donatello Posted 25 April, 2016 Share Posted 25 April, 2016 Romeu. At least he can tackle and do some defensive work. Contrary to the myth, passing stats for Wanyama, Romeu and Clasie actually show that Wanyama (rating 6.98) is the best passer and Clasie (6.70) is the worst. I think some people notice Clasie's passing more because it's all he does, whereas Wanyama and Romeu do a lot of tackling and intercepting as well during a game. Fans of Clasie say he makes telling passes, but that appears to be a myth too as I can't recall him having a single assist all season. Complete analysis here: www.whoscored.com/Players/90802/Show/Jordy-Clasie www.whoscored.com/Players/71714 You can't possibly be serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 25 April, 2016 Share Posted 25 April, 2016 You can't possibly be serious. My guess would be it includes all passing so victors 2 yard sidewards passes count as much as an attempted through ball forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donatello Posted 25 April, 2016 Share Posted 25 April, 2016 My guess would be it includes all passing so victors 2 yard sidewards passes count as much as an attempted through ball forward. Undoubtedly I'm merely perplexed as to how someone could watch Wanyama and Clasie play, and conclude that Wanyama is a superior passer of the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted 25 April, 2016 Share Posted 25 April, 2016 Clasie is the one player who can pick a first time pass out of our midfielders, but Romeo is more of a complete midfielder. I think we should sign martins Indi and put VVD in DM with Wanyama (if he stays). For me we need more athletic players in our team and especially midfield. thank the lord you aren't picking our team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordic Saint Posted 25 April, 2016 Share Posted 25 April, 2016 It's just an objective and very comprehensive statistical analysis of their passing, not an opinion. It includes every aspect: percentage completion, assists, key passes, length of passes, crosses, through balls etc. And, Clasie, surprisingly, comes out as a significantly worse passer than Wanyama and Romeu. Fans tend to watch players subjectively. They have their favourites and their scapegoats, sometimes based on things like physical appearance, media reports of what they've said etc. The statistical analysis is a bit more objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Kint Posted 25 April, 2016 Share Posted 25 April, 2016 Wanyama can only attempt simple sideways and backwards passes, whereas Clasie is actually trying to penetrate, and he's therefore going to give the ball away more than others. You don't break teams down by taking 2 or 3 touches and playing it safe, you do it by injecting tempo and pace into your play. The best example thatcomes to mind was away at United when Mane missed a 1v1. The ball dropped on the half volley to Clasie, and when most of our midfielders would have had to take a touch and play it back to his full back or centre back to be safe, Clasie instead played a first time ball into Mane, who played a one two with Tadic (both first time) and he was in on goal. If that had been Wanyama he'd have played a simple ball back and got his pass completion % up, but Clasie instead instigated an attack. That pass didn't count as a "key pass" which is why most of these stats sites are worthless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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