Lawrie McMenemy in the Mail

[Golac's Iron Gonads]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3554446/Lawrie-McMenemy-unlikely-prelude-great-Cup-final-upset-lads-laughing-bus-Wembley-Freddie-Starr-sitting-back.html

 

Love the Keegan signing story.

[sadoldgit]

He provided many wonderful memories for us but boy, what an ego!

[Dellman]

He can't let go which is a bit sad

[Fitzhugh Fella]

He has got very mixed up re Frddie Starr's presence in 1976. It was actually the League Cup Final in 1979 when he wangled his way onto the team bus, I have the photos! Surprised at Lawrie's mistake as he mentions it In his 'Diary of a Season' book.

[Patrick Bateman]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3554446/Lawrie-McMenemy-unlikely-prelude-great-Cup-final-upset-lads-laughing-bus-Wembley-Freddie-Starr-sitting-back.html

 

Love the Keegan signing story.

 

"Every time I see (United defender) Martin Buchan he tells me Bobby Stokes was offside"

 

FFS!

[Channon's Sideburns]

He can dine out on that day as much as he likes in my book.

 

A book, that is now available via Amazon for £9.99...

[wild-saint]

The only saints manager in my lifetime that has achieved anything and as such will be a legend forever.

[Matthew Le God]

The only saints manager in my lifetime that has achieved anything and as such will be a legend forever.

 

Nigel Adkins' successive promotions is an achievement of note.

[CB Fry]

Did McMenemy set up the training centre in Bath, then?

Edited 23 April, 2016 by CB Fry

[Ohio Saint]

His recollections may be accurate or otherwise.....But his FA cup win and 2nd place in Div 1? He will always be a hero to me.

[Batman]

Nigel Adkins' successive promotions is an achievement of note.

 

So is Pardews. Not close to Lawrie Mac though

[Red]

He can't let go which is a bit sad

 

This! Let's not airbrush the fact that he left us for a "more passionate fanbase" club, and how that worked out.

Yes was good for us in his day, but a massive ego - met him twice and each time got the impression he had no time for the humble fan

[Mowgli]

I love the bit in the article where he criticises managers who let players wear headphones when they get off the coach yet admits to letting a player smoke a pipe in the dressing room...

 

Every comment about the club is barbed with an undertone of 'they simply don't understand how great I am'

 

That said, Mac was a great personality in his day and I refuse to let the failing of an elderly man tarnish the wonderful memories I have of him and the club in the 70s and 80s

[FloridaMarlin]

Nobody could argue what he did for the club, and the great times he gave supporters - possibly the best ever for Saints fans.

 

I don't think anybody who wasn't around at the time can appreciate how huge the Kevin Keegan signing was. As a Saints fan, you were able to walk six inches off the deck, and for that alone if nothing else, Lawrie should be appreciated and held in esteem.

 

But it might well have been from that time that his ego began to spiral.

 

As other people on this board with connections will verify, he was an absolute nightmare to deal with from a media point of view.

 

I realise that most fans won't give a tinker's cuss about the problems he caused people and to an extent, why should they?

 

But while he came across (and still does) as a big genial Geordie, and carefully maintained his status as folk hero, he always acted out of self-service and as a result rode roughshod over most people he dealt with.

 

While he is - rightly - a hero to fans, you won't find too many people in the media who have a good word to say about him. He burned too many bridges.

 

Unfortunately, his book might well be a good read, but it's 20 years too late. I'm not sure the current generation of fans can relate to the players who played under him.

[John B]

"Every time I see (United defender) Martin Buchan he tells me Bobby Stokes was offside"

 

FFS!

 

I think he was probably offside too but who cares

[sadoldgit]

Stokes timed his run to perfection. Onside for me.

[scotty]

Stokes timed his run to perfection. Onside for me.

 

Oddly enough, I remember Bobby Stokes interview right after the match, and him saying he thought he was offside but stuck it away for the lads anyway.

[Mowgli]

If you watch the video Stokes looks marginally off side until a third player comes into shot and then he is clearly on side with the ball in the air.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Nobody could argue what he did for the club, and the great times he gave supporters - possibly the best ever for Saints fans.

 

I don't think anybody who wasn't around at the time can appreciate how huge the Kevin Keegan signing was. As a Saints fan, you were able to walk six inches off the deck, and for that alone if nothing else, Lawrie should be appreciated and held in esteem.

 

But it might well have been from that time that his ego began to spiral.

 

As other people on this board with connections will verify, he was an absolute nightmare to deal with from a media point of view.

 

I realise that most fans won't give a tinker's cuss about the problems he caused people and to an extent, why should they?

 

But while he came across (and still does) as a big genial Geordie, and carefully maintained his status as folk hero, he always acted out of self-service and as a result rode roughshod over most people he dealt with.

 

While he is - rightly - a hero to fans, you won't find too many people in the media who have a good word to say about him. He burned too many bridges.

 

Unfortunately, his book might well be a good read, but it's 20 years too late. I'm not sure the current generation of fans can relate to the players who played under him.

 

A balanced and entirely accurate view

[Dellman]

Terry Paine was my hero an old fashioed one club player, but big Lawrie saw him as a threat and got rid. Good that Terry became President, not LM.

[VectisSaint]

Terry Paine was my hero an old fashioed one club player, but big Lawrie saw him as a threat and got rid. Good that Terry became President, not LM.

Nothing against Terry personally, but he was allegedly a nasty piece of work according to those that knew him, disliked by many in the Club. Doesn't take away from him being a great one-club man and a Saints hero. Same with Lawrie, his huge ego is what made him what he was. Is having a huge ego really that big a deal, for a football manager, after all some of the greatest are also guilty of the same, Mourinho, Fergie, Cloughy to name but three. If Lawrie was not liked by some in the Media, then hard luck, seems to be a plus point for him in my opinion. Well done Lawrie for ****ing off Media jerks , couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of ****s.

[Mowgli]

He has got very mixed up re Frddie Starr's presence in 1976. It was actually the League Cup Final in 1979 when he wangled his way onto the team bus, I have the photos! Surprised at Lawrie's mistake as he mentions it In his 'Diary of a Season' book.

 

No mix up. Freddie blagged his way on to the bus from the hotel in 76 and sat with the staff on the back row of the trainers bench at Wembley. He had such a positive effect on the players he was specifically invited back for the 79 final. Freddie often ended up at wembley (publicity seeking?) and was actually an avid Everton fan.

[FloridaMarlin]

Nothing against Terry personally, but he was allegedly a nasty piece of work according to those that knew him, disliked by many in the Club. Doesn't take away from him being a great one-club man and a Saints hero. Same with Lawrie, his huge ego is what made him what he was. Is having a huge ego really that big a deal, for a football manager, after all some of the greatest are also guilty of the same, Mourinho, Fergie, Cloughy to name but three. If Lawrie was not liked by some in the Media, then hard luck, seems to be a plus point for him in my opinion. Well done Lawrie for ****ing off Media jerks , couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of ****s.

 

If you read my post you will see that I accepted most people would not care what his attitude to the media was like.

But I think you are a bit disingenuous to label all journalists as jerks and whatever is covered by your asterisks (I can guess what letters they are).

There are bellends in every profession and perhaps the media has more than its share.

But the vast majority of journos do a good, honest job in bringing truthful, engaging and sometimes important news to people.

That's especially the case in the regional media where journos are very committed to their profession and passionate about what they do and who they cover.

I don't suppose it would make any difference to your view to know that I know of at least two good, honest hard-working journos who were driven to a nervous breakdown and early retirement by Lawrie.

In fact, you would probably revel in that news.

Don't get me wrong. I appreciate and admire what Lawrie did for Saints and as I said in my earlier post he gave fans the best times in the club's history.

But that doesn't mean we have to fawn over him.

He's a human being and has flaws and it's right they should be aired and discussed.

[david in sweden]

I've always loved history, and as a Saints fan, have followed them for over 50 years.

This may be a good read for the older fans, but perhaps ignored by a younger generation for whom "21st Century technology" has replaced reading a book.

 

I recall all of McMenemy's career but perhaps after the 76 Cup win and the subsequent promotion 78, he failed to win anything else despite gathering together several squads packed full of international names - and there can be few other clubs who have had 5 England captains on their books at various times. With that array of talent you have say that we should have won more, but the blame for that should perhaps equally go to the players on the field, as much as the manager on the sideline.

 

McMenemy certainly had his faults, but if a 6' 6" football Div 1 manager doesn't need to have " a bit of an ego" - then who on Earth does?

Those who lack ambition shouldn't blame those who seek it. For all his faults Lawrie DAJFU that no-one else has achieved - before or since.

 

After 12 years with Saints, Lawrie really needed to seek pastures new and the only person to blame for his failure at Sunderland - was himself.

His much lauded "Man Management " style (admired by so many in later years) was equally disasterous in his Sunderland season, as it was in his first with Saints.

 

History (by definition) is a story of successes and failures. My generation admired Terry Paine, John Sydenham and Ron Davies for the great players they were, but

those fans who ignore the book, will eventually breed a younger generation who will (one day) say .....Matt Who?

[Fitzhugh Fella]

You can say what you like about L Mac and certainly he is far from perfect but having spent Friday morning in his company and watching how he still cleverly works the media, appreciates the fans, praises the club, talks to the ex-players that he is one shrewd cookie. Canny, quick, articulate, pr savvy he had it all and used it to great effect. He's done a helluva lot for Saints, he can be an absolute bas**** when he wants to be but even now as he approaches his 80s he is still an asset and a worthy ambassador.

[VectisSaint]

But I think you are a bit disingenuous to label all journalists as jerks and whatever is covered by your asterisks (I can guess what letters they are).

.

In the context of the original discussion, I was meaning specifically national sporting (football) journos. I stand by what I said in their case.

[sadoldgit]

I've always loved history, and as a Saints fan, have followed them for over 50 years.

This may be a good read for the older fans, but perhaps ignored by a younger generation for whom "21st Century technology" has replaced reading a book.

 

I recall all of McMenemy's career but perhaps after the 76 Cup win and the subsequent promotion 78, he failed to win anything else despite gathering together several squads packed full of international names - and there can be few other clubs who have had 5 England captains on their books at various times. With that array of talent you have say that we should have won more, but the blame for that should perhaps equally go to the players on the field, as much as the manager on the sideline.

 

McMenemy certainly had his faults, but if a 6' 6" football Div 1 manager doesn't need to have " a bit of an ego" - then who on Earth does?

Those who lack ambition shouldn't blame those who seek it. For all his faults Lawrie DAJFU that no-one else has achieved - before or since.

 

After 12 years with Saints, Lawrie really needed to seek pastures new and the only person to blame for his failure at Sunderland - was himself.

His much lauded "Man Management " style (admired by so many in later years) was equally disasterous in his Sunderland season, as it was in his first with Saints.

 

History (by definition) is a story of successes and failures. My generation admired Terry Paine, John Sydenham and Ron Davies for the great players they were, but

those fans who ignore the book, will eventually breed a younger generation who will (one day) say .....Matt Who?

 

I remember Mick Channon saying that he wasn't much of a coach or tactician but just used to buy good/great players and let them play. Boy did it work. Although you said he should have won more, for a club like Saints to turn over United and win the cup and come second to Liverpool in the old Div 1 were both massive achievements. He probably would have won the League Cup too if it wasn't for Cloughie's magic and who knows what would have happened if Heath hadn't got that late winner in a game we probably should have won.

[FloridaMarlin]

In the context of the original discussion, I was meaning specifically national sporting (football) journos. I stand by what I said in their case.

 

You sometimes have to be a bit of egotistical arse and a pain in the neck to be the chief football writer on a national newspaper, and I'll be the first to admit there are some right muppets you would not give the time of day to.

 

It's a fiercely competitive industry and like any competitive industry there is huge pressure on people to come up with the goods. That's not defending them (I wouldn't and couldn't do that) and they could always get out of it if they choose and the pressure gets too much.

 

But while agreeing there are arseholes who work for national newspapers, there are far more decent, honest hard-working journalists who are respectful, aware of the responsibilities of the their role and are generous with their time and advice for those trying to make their way in the profession.

 

While I can't mention names, some of those who are the nicest guys would surprise you. Unfortunately, the names of the arseholes will also come as no surprise to you.

 

I know we're straying a little off-topic, but I think you are unfair to tar all journos as pillocks. I don't know what you do for a living but I'm sure you have a proportion of muppets in your profession. It doesn't mean everybody is.

[david in sweden]

I remember Mick Channon saying that he wasn't much of a coach or tactician but just used to buy good/great players and let them play.

Boy did it work. Although you said he should have won more, for a club like Saints to turn over United and win the cup and come second to Liverpool in the old Div 1 were both massive achievements. He probably would have won the League Cup too if it wasn't for Cloughie's magic and who knows what would have happened if Heath hadn't got that late winner in a game we probably should have won.

 

 

I was a disappointed fan at Wembley when we lost to Forest, who admittedly did have a very good side.

 

The SF loss v. Everton was a travesty. We were much the better side and deserved the win on the day.

[Saint-Armstrong]

Lawrie on Rupert Lowe...