Shane Long

[Saint-Armstrong]

Interesting piece that nicely summarises Shane's role and status at Saints with the use of some good statistics.

 

https://www.whoscored.com/Articles/hggcta1qxew_3cazzxq_8g/Show/Long-Lacks-Star-Quality-But-Remains-Key-Saints-Regular

 

 

Thoughts on where he stands at current and as we look to improve?

 

I have to confess to not being too impressed when we signed him and although he's never a £12m finisher he's a mightily-good pain in the arse and a handy team player. The article summarises it nicely.

[Daft Kerplunk]

Are you seriously asking for people's thoughts on Shane Long? Seriously after how many f$$$$$g stupid posts about him!

[Batman]

he was brilliant when is played as the main striker. Now he is less effective compared....which is bloody annoying

[ScepticalStan]

Relatively useful pest up front who probably cost us maybe £3Mn-4Mn more than he should have, but that's 1) not his fault and 2) chump change in today's market.

 

Its a shame he's so laughably overrated by the fans who love a talentless try-hard clogger but treat finesse, talent and skill with suspicion - which tends to align with a base chauvinism towards British/Irish players and a typical 'little Englander' football attitude which likes to scapegoat 'vem Carlos Kickaball forrinners' for anything and everything that goes wrong.

 

You get the same thing with JWP - who many argue needs more time when he's made over 100 senior appearances - and Steven Davis - who can misplace pass after pass and offer nothing going forward, but won't get anywhere near 10% of the vitriol thrown Mane's way if he picks the ball up in his own half, beats three or four players and scuffs the entirely self-created chance just wide.

 

But, of course, that isn't Shane's fault. He's a useful player and a very decent option who certainly won't let us down. The only thing I'd say is that phrases like 'good', 'honest', 'hard-working' and 'pest' are not associated with any strikers or attacking players for any teams that finish in the top six (just thinking about it - maaaaaybe at a stretch - Naismith back at Everton).

 

But yeah - if we want to be who we want to be, then we're going to have to do better than jolly old Paddy Long up front.

[shurlock]

Relatively useful pest up front who probably cost us maybe £3Mn-4Mn more than he should have, but that's 1) not his fault and 2) chump change in today's market.

 

Its a shame he's so laughably overrated by the fans who love a talentless try-hard clogger but treat finesse, talent and skill with suspicion - which tends to align with a base chauvinism towards British/Irish players and a typical 'little Englander' football attitude which likes to scapegoat 'vem Carlos Kickaball forrinners' for anything and everything that goes wrong.

 

You get the same thing with JWP - who many argue needs more time when he's made over 100 senior appearances - and Steven Davis - who can misplace pass after pass and offer nothing going forward, but won't get anywhere near 10% of the vitriol thrown Mane's way if he picks the ball up in his own half, beats three or four players and scuffs the entirely self-created chance just wide.

 

But, of course, that isn't Shane's fault. He's a useful player and a very decent option who certainly won't let us down. The only thing I'd say is that phrases like 'good', 'honest', 'hard-working' and 'pest' are not associated with any strikers or attacking players for any teams that finish in the top six (just thinking about it - maaaaaybe at a stretch - Naismith back at Everton).

 

But yeah - if we want to be who we want to be, then we're going to have to do better than jolly old Paddy Long up front.

 

He's one of our most creative players, one of the few who can pick out a through ball, according to some on here!

[Saint Charlie]

Miles better once Koeman started picking him up front. He isnt an asset out wide.

 

Misses too many presentable chances to ever be prolific but he has done well since December and some defenders hate playing against him.

 

Only 3 away goals though all season in the league.

[VectisSaint]

But, of course, that isn't Shane's fault. He's a useful player and a very decent option who certainly won't let us down. The only thing I'd say is that phrases like 'good', 'honest', 'hard-working' and 'pest' are not associated with any strikers or attacking players for any teams that finish in the top six (just thinking about it - maaaaaybe at a stretch - Naismith back at Everton).

Everton are not top six.

Vardy is all of the things you highlight, Leicester are "top one".

You seem to have a vivid imagination when it comes to some of your observations about "foreign" players, if you seriously think Mane gets more vitriol than JWP or Steven Davis.

[ScepticalStan]

Everton are not top six.

Vardy is all of the things you highlight, Leicester are "top one".

You seem to have a vivid imagination when it comes to some of your observations about "foreign" players, if you seriously think Mane gets more vitriol than JWP or Steven Davis.

 

Vardy has the highest number of goals and assists this season out of anyone. He's much, much more talented than our Paddy Long, who has literally never in his entire career scored even half as many goals in a season as Vardy has in this.

 

Vardy is a class well above Long, and the fact you've compared the two illustrates my point perfectly.

[Donatello]

Vardy has the highest number of goals and assists this season out of anyone. He's much, much more talented than our Paddy Long, who has literally never in his entire career scored even half as many goals in a season as Vardy has in this.

 

Vardy is a class well above Long, and the fact you've compared the two illustrates my point perfectly.

 

Something else which you've imagined

[Faz]

Vardy has the highest number of goals and assists this season out of anyone. He's much, much more talented than our Paddy Long, who has literally never in his entire career scored even half as many goals in a season as Vardy has in this.

 

Vardy is a class well above Long, and the fact you've compared the two illustrates my point perfectly.

 

Vary has never scored half as many goals as he has this season

[sandwichsaint]

Vardy has the highest number of goals and assists this season out of anyone. He's much, much more talented than our Paddy Long, who has literally never in his entire career scored even half as many goals in a season as Vardy has in this.

 

Vardy is a class well above Long, and the fact you've compared the two illustrates my point perfectly.

 

2010-2011, 28 goals in 58 for Reading and Rep of Ireland, but yeah, Vardy has scored 56+ this season.

[The9]

 

But, of course, that isn't Shane's fault. He's a useful player and a very decent option who certainly won't let us down. The only thing I'd say is that phrases like 'good', 'honest', 'hard-working' and 'pest' are not associated with any strikers or attacking players for any teams that finish in the top six (just thinking about it - maaaaaybe at a stretch - Naismith back at Everton).

 

Suarez was a good hard-working pest, Vardy is a good hard-working pest. In the sense of being reliable to deliver what you'd expect of them and up-front about what they offer, they're both "honest" as well. I'm sure there are plenty of others. I don't think Long is that far different from Vardy over most of their careers, but Suarez is a far better finisher than both. Point remains that good honest hard-working strikers have a place in top 6 teams. And what's Harry Kane, then?

[ScepticalStan]

2010-2011, 28 goals in 58 for Reading and Rep of Ireland, but yeah, Vardy has scored 56+ this season.

 

Er...Long was playing in the Championship and you're comparing it to Vardy in the league above as if they're somehow equal?

 

That's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. No other player (CERTAINLY not a (proper - i.e non-British isles) foreigner) would have people desperately clutching at straws or comparing him to one of the league's leading goalscorers.

 

Shane Long has never in his career scored even half as many goals in a Premier League season as Vardy has in this one. That is a fact.

 

Shane Long's goalscoring record in the Premier League is this:

 

Reading:

 

06/07: 21 appearances 2 goals

07/08: 29 appearances 3 goals

 

West Brom:

 

11/12: 32 appearances 8 goals

12/13: 34 appearances 8 goals

 

West Brom & Hull:

 

13/14: 30 appearances 7 goals

 

Southampton:

 

14/15: 32 appearances 5 goals

15/16: 23 appearances 8 goals

 

Having said all of that, he's not a bad player. In fact, he's quite a useful player to have in the squad and indeed start the odd game where necessary. I'm pleased he's here and I wish him well. Its just a shame he's so ridiculously overrated that conversations about him invariably result in having to temper people's estimations of him.

[farawaysaint]

Er...Long was playing in the Championship and you're comparing it to Vardy in the league above as if they're somehow equal?

 

That's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. No other player (CERTAINLY not a (proper - i.e non-British isles) foreigner) would have people desperately clutching at straws or comparing him to one of the league's leading goalscorers.

 

Shane Long has never in his career scored even half as many goals in a Premier League season as Vardy has in this one. That is a fact.

 

Shane Long's goalscoring record in the Premier League is this:

 

Reading:

 

06/07: 21 appearances 2 goals

07/08: 29 appearances 3 goals

 

West Brom:

 

11/12: 32 appearances 8 goals

12/13: 34 appearances 8 goals

 

West Brom & Hull:

 

13/14: 30 appearances 7 goals

 

Southampton:

 

14/15: 32 appearances 5 goals

15/16: 23 appearances 8 goals

 

Having said all of that, he's not a bad player. In fact, he's quite a useful player to have in the squad and indeed start the odd game where necessary. I'm pleased he's here and I wish him well. Its just a shame he's so ridiculously overrated that conversations about him invariably result in having to temper people's estimations of him.

 

It's either him or VVD for player of the season in his defence so I feel he deserves some praise.

[ScepticalStan]

Yeah by all means! I don't disagree - I think he's a good, good player and hey - I don't even think we overpaid for him by all that much. Its just the ridiculousness of the extent to which our fans overrate him that frustrates me.

 

He quite simply gets far more praise and far less criticism than his team-mates ever do when they do more-or-less the same thing. That's not to say he won't score a goal or two tomorrow and its not to say that I won't be pleased for him. I'll just find myself cringing at the inevitable adulation that'll bestowed upon him whilst when Pelle scored twice up at Stoke there were people on here LITERALLY saying that they were disappointed he scored because it would encourage Koeman to continue playing him.

[simo]

Well I like him !

[Ice2Eskimos]

His work rate is what makes him an asset.

 

Take him out of the team and who have we got that puts in the kind of shift he does?..

 

Possibly Steven Davis but he doesn't score.

 

As someone mentioned above, without jumping on the Vardy bandwagon, but he does spring to mind and would leicester really have one hand on the title without him?

 

Still think £12M we splurged on Long was slightly over the odds tbh, but that can be forgiven because we were in full panic mode at the time when the dippers took our players.

[The9]

His work rate is what makes him an asset.

 

Take him out of the team and who have we got that puts in the kind of shift he does?..

 

Possibly Steven Davis but he doesn't score.

 

As someone mentioned above, without jumping on the Vardy bandwagon, but he does spring to mind and would leicester really have one hand on the title without him?

 

Still think £12M we splurged on Long was slightly over the odds tbh, but that can be forgiven because we were in full panic mode at the time when the dippers took our players.

 

We signed him on August 14th, which was a full 2½ months after Lambert left and just before the season started, not sure what "panic" that was meant to be by then. It was all played out by August, Chambers left on 28th July and Ralph's statement about no-one else leaving was made. 3 days after we signed Long, Schneiderlin played against Liverpool so the entire Schneiderlin strop played out in the interim.

 

Also the reason he cost £12m was purely because he was only 6 months into a 4 year deal when we signed him, Hull had paid £7m for him in the January when he was about to be out of contract at West Brom, and if we'd paid that at the time there wouldn't be this endless tedious debate about his fee. Hardly anyone signs players with nearly their entire contract left precisely because it's not usually good business.

 

It was that "sign the player you want if they're available" approach as mentioned in Soccernomics along with our remarkable ability to make a profit off signings that prompted all the Moneyball discussion.

[The9]

Er...Long was playing in the Championship and you're comparing it to Vardy in the league above as if they're somehow equal?

 

That's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. No other player (CERTAINLY not a (proper - i.e non-British isles) foreigner) would have people desperately clutching at straws or comparing him to one of the league's leading goalscorers.

 

Shane Long has never in his career scored even half as many goals in a Premier League season as Vardy has in this one. That is a fact.

 

Shane Long's goalscoring record in the Premier League is this:

 

Reading:

 

06/07: 21 appearances 2 goals

07/08: 29 appearances 3 goals

 

West Brom:

 

11/12: 32 appearances 8 goals

12/13: 34 appearances 8 goals

 

West Brom & Hull:

 

13/14: 30 appearances 7 goals

 

Southampton:

 

14/15: 32 appearances 5 goals

15/16: 23 appearances 8 goals

 

Having said all of that, he's not a bad player. In fact, he's quite a useful player to have in the squad and indeed start the odd game where necessary. I'm pleased he's here and I wish him well. Its just a shame he's so ridiculously overrated that conversations about him invariably result in having to temper people's estimations of him.

 

Vardy scored 5 goals last season in the Premier League. 16 in the Championship the year before. 5 in the Championship the year before that.

 

I think it's fair to say that JAMIE VARDY had never in his career scored even A QUARTER as many goals in a Premier League season as Jamie Vardy has in this one as well. So there's no particular reason to think either that Vardy will continue to do this, or that Long won't start to. The sample size is meaningless.

 

I would also point out that Vardy wasn't "very very average" last season when Saints played at Leicester, he was the best player on the park by a mile, doing exactly what he has this season, just more out wide and therefore a greater distance from the goal.

[The9]

Yeah by all means! I don't disagree - I think he's a good, good player and hey - I don't even think we overpaid for him by all that much. Its just the ridiculousness of the extent to which our fans overrate him that frustrates me.

 

He quite simply gets far more praise and far less criticism than his team-mates ever do when they do more-or-less the same thing. That's not to say he won't score a goal or two tomorrow and its not to say that I won't be pleased for him. I'll just find myself cringing at the inevitable adulation that'll bestowed upon him whilst when Pelle scored twice up at Stoke there were people on here LITERALLY saying that they were disappointed he scored because it would encourage Koeman to continue playing him.

 

Isn't that a problem with people's perception of Pelle rather than anything about Long though?

[ericofarabia]

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere (but can't find it now) that the 12 million is after various add ons, presumably games played, goals scored, our league position etc

 

Anybody else remember seeing this at all?

[Saint Martini]

Since his arrival, Saints’ win ratio with Long starting (51.4%) is considerably better than without him (37.8%), while the number of games drawn has also dropped from 29.7% without him compared to 11.4% with him.

So, to summarise: The loss ratio increased from 32,5% without Long to 37,2% with Long....

 

Its one thing to comment on the win ratio being better but to make a lower draw ratio a positive thing when that can both be because of a higher loss and win ratio is just plain stupid.

 

He won’t often be on the receiving end of crosses into the box akin to Austin or Pelle

 

But at the same time one of his strengths according to the article is heading (and he's scored a few headers this season).

 

 

 

Long is a useful player and several teams have had huge problems dealing with his style of play. He's had a good season and has been worth the fee we paid last season. One of the strengths of this team is that the strikers offer very different qualities. It gives Koeman the option of adapting our style to the opponents weaknesses.

[ScepticalStan]

Vardy scored 5 goals last season in the Premier League. 16 in the Championship the year before. 5 in the Championship the year before that.

 

I think it's fair to say that JAMIE VARDY had never in his career scored even A QUARTER as many goals in a Premier League season as Jamie Vardy has in this one as well. So there's no particular reason to think either that Vardy will continue to do this, or that Long won't start to.

 

 

That's right. After seven seasons failing to crack the dizzy heights of 10 top-flight goals there's no reason to suggest our man Paddy Long won't burst into form next year and be one of the league's top scorers. And the fact that Vardy leads the way in combined goals and assists is something that should be totally ignored. Because he hadn't before he had, and you can't prove that he won't suddenly stop scoring.

 

And like I say, Shane Long is not ****, he is a reasonably decent player - but the excuses, apologies and general hype made around him would never be extended to anyone else.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

 

That's right. After seven seasons failing to crack the dizzy heights of 10 top-flight goals there's no reason to suggest our man Paddy Long won't burst into form next year and be one of the league's top scorers. And the fact that Vardy leads the way in combined goals and assists is something that should be totally ignored. Because he hadn't before he had, and you can't prove that he won't suddenly stop scoring.

 

And like I say, Shane Long is not ****, he is a reasonably decent player - but the excuses, apologies and general hype made around him would never be extended to anyone else.

 

[Deano6]

I didn't intend to but I'm finding ScepticalStan's arguments rather compelling and am starting to agree with him. I feel like one of those jurors in Twelve Angry Men.