Koeman not happy with away form

[Saint Charlie]

As part of a fairly downbeat press conference, where he was clearly still ****ed off about last weekend, Koeman mentioned our away form is what is largely preventing us from being higher in the league. He said we haven't won enough games away from home.

 

Looking further, there are some quite interesting away stats which you can see below.

 

Do you agree it is the biggest barrier to us finishing higher this season?

 

How could it be improved for next season?

 

----------------------------------------------

 

- We have the 7th best home record, but the 12th best away record in the league.

 

- We have won fewer away games (5) than Bournemouth (6)

 

- Only Man City (3rd in PL) and Tottenham (2nd) have conceded fewer goals away from home. We have also condeded the same number of away goals as likely Champions Leicester (16)

 

- Despite a good defensive record only matched by CL qualifiers, our away GD is minus 2

 

- Only Newcastle (19th), Norwich (17th), Villa (20th) and WBA (14th) have scored less than our 14 away goals from 17 games

 

- Sunderland have scored 8 more away goals than Saints.

 

- Despite condeding the same number of away goals, Leicester have 6 more away wins than us - largely because they have scored a league high 31 away goals (17 more than us)

 

- We have only scored more than one goal away from home in 3/17 games this season

 

- The goals in those 3 games (7 goals - Newcastle, Chelsea, Stoke) represent HALF our away total

 

- In the other 14 games we scored 7 goals at 0.5 goals a game

 

- Saints failed to score away from home against: Watford, West Brom, Crystal Palace, Norwich, Arsenal, Bournemouth & Leicester

 

- Graziano Pelle has scored in 3 away matches this season

 

- Shane Long has also scored in 3 PL away games this season

 

------------------------------

 

Away goals:

 

Pelle 4

 

Long 3

 

Mane 3

 

Tadic 1 (pen)

 

Davis 1

 

Austin 1

 

OG 1

 

-------------------

 

Forwards: 11

 

Att Mid: 2

 

Mid: 1

 

Def: 0

 

OG: 1

[Appy]

Yes our away form is bad, we lack goals, I don't think it needs in depth analysis.

[Batman]

why cant Koeman be happy and remember where we were in the 90s

 

what he could do, is stop playing pelle every single minute (almost) he is fully fit. We could have a better counter attacking side without him

[Saint Charlie]

Yes our away form is bad, we lack goals, I don't think it needs in depth analysis.

Only two teams have more home goals than us though (City and Spurs) so its definitely an away specific problem.

 

3rd top home scorers yet 16th highest away scorers.

 

Big variance there. Only Newcastle anywhere near close to such a difference.

[pangy]

I have said it before but we lack a killer instinct and the ability to really go at teams when they are there for the taking,Pelle and Tadic are decent players but slow down attacks at times,we need to be more direct and show a bit more urgency at times,until we get that instinct we won't improve much

[positivepete]

Before we started winning away games in L1 we probably averaged about 3 away wins a season for 20 years. I am sure someone will correct me, but certainly we do not have a history of winning away from home, it has nearly always been our home form that has saved us.

[kermitsaint]

Koeman should take responsibility for alot of these problems. He sets the team , builds a strategy and chooses the subs .

 

 

 

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[Saint Charlie]

I have said it before but we lack a killer instinct and the ability to really go at teams when they are there for the taking,Pelle and Tadic are decent players but slow down attacks at times,we need to be more direct and show a bit more urgency at times,until we get that instinct we won't improve much

They do enough at home for us to be third top scorers though.

 

Are we tactically different away from home? Probably more away games where Davis plays just behind the striker. His return of one (good) goal in the season is very poor in that position.

 

Souness was talking about that position on Sky last week and said you can be a good player, provide assists but if you don't score goals you can't be considered a good player in that position.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I have said it before but we lack a killer instinct and the ability to really go at teams when they are there for the taking,Pelle and Tadic are decent players but slow down attacks at times,we need to be more direct and show a bit more urgency at times,until we get that instinct we won't improve much

 

This x 2

[saintadjg]

I think Koeman worries too much about the opposition. Rather than trying to counter every on else let them worry about us and change their game.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

Points away from home Aug - Dec last season: 13

Points away from home Jan - May last season: 10

 

Points away from home Aug - Dec this season: 10

Points away from home Jan - May this season (thus far): 11

 

It's definitely an issue for us if we want to push on.

[angelman]

As manager, isn't our away form his responsibility?

[saint lard]

Stop buggering about with the squad selection,formation etc then.

Trying to be too clever at times Ronald.

 

 

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[shurlock]

Stop buggering about with the squad selection,formation etc then.

Trying to be too clever at times Ronald.

 

 

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Pal, it's called having a Plan B (C, D, E, F....) on here

[shurlock]

Away efficiency is worse than performances. Too many draws or narrow defeats where we've dominated large period and not scored when on top. Should have been 2 or 3 up at West Ham, should have won comfortably last weekend. It's not the woeful performances like Bournemouth that annoy me so much, these things happen, but dominating and not winning is frustrating.

 

Good to have things to improve on though. Next season we need better finishing and a more consistent midfield line up I think. No coincidence we were much more consistent in performances when we had a similar starting line up and tactics every week. a lot depends on Rodriguez coming back strong. He's a better finisher than Long or Mane but still has pace. I mean Mane has won us plenty of points no doubt, but his season can be summed up for me by the opening day, through on goal twice to win at Newcastle and messed them both up.

 

There have been plenty of games that we've dominated but ultimately created very little in. It's propaganda football.

[stevegrant]

I have said it before but we lack a killer instinct and the ability to really go at teams when they are there for the taking,Pelle and Tadic are decent players but slow down attacks at times,we need to be more direct and show a bit more urgency at times,until we get that instinct we won't improve much

I'd largely agree, but having seen the 40-odd minutes of Sky highlights from the Everton game, it looked like Tadic had a rare away performance where he was effective from start to finish.

 

Not worth analysing our away record from our first PL spell, pretty much always terrible, lucky to get 2 or 3 away wins a season.

 

Since we've been back up:

 

2012/13: 3-7-9 (23-36) 16pts

2013/14: 7-5-7 (22-23) 26pts

2014/15: 7-2-10 (17-20) 23pts

2015/16: 5-6-6 (14-16) 21pts

 

Win at Villa on Saturday, which we really should do, and we'll have actually gained more points away from home this season compared to last season, with a game to spare.

 

Certainly, away performances have tended to be solid rather than spectacular, but sometimes the bottom line tells you a different story compared to what your eyes see.

[fanimal]

Could yet be our best away season in four years back up then? not too shabby...

[Saint Charlie]

It may not be the case but I get the impression that more points are won away from home across the league than used to be the case.

 

Certainly a few teams who are actually better away than at home.

[stevegrant]

It may not be the case but I get the impression that more points are won away from home across the league than used to be the case.

 

Certainly a few teams who are actually better away than at home.

The numbers (Home-Draw-Away):

 

2012/13: 166-108-106 (44%-28%-28%)

2013/14: 179-78-123 (47%-21%-32%)

2014/15: 172-93-115 (45%-25%-30%)

2015/16: 135-93-110 (40%-27%-33%) [42 games to play]

 

So overall, teams at home have been slightly weaker over the past three years - Villa being extraordinarily **** (previous bottom teams earned 23 and 20 points at home compared to Villa's 10) and Chelsea slumping from being unbeaten with 15 home wins to only 5 wins are massive outliers this season, though, which may skew the figures a touch.

 

There are very few teams who you'd have any confidence in setting a game plan up to defend first these days. Even the likes of West Brom have been pretty porous despite very obvious game plans away from home. Defending just isn't a particularly high standard across the leagues now, which means that teams who do things right at the other end prosper more than they did a few years ago, IMO. However, the handful of teams who CAN defend properly - us, Leicester, Spurs, Man United - have got their rewards at times this season even when the strikers haven't been firing.

[beatlesaint]

Before we started winning away games in L1 we probably averaged about 3 away wins a season for 20 years. I am sure someone will correct me, but certainly we do not have a history of winning away from home, it has nearly always been our home form that has saved us.

 

This. Even in the glory years of the early 80"s when we were magnificent at The Dell it was a different story once they got on a coach and left Hampshire.

 

if we win more than four or five away in a top flight season then it's a good record for Southampton.

 

Having said that, yes Ron needs to drop Pelle and Tadic away from home and play players who can make us quick on the counter attack.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Stop buggering about with the squad selection,formation etc then.

Trying to be too clever at times Ronald.

 

 

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Koeman should take responsibility for alot of these problems. He sets the team , builds a strategy and chooses the subs .

 

 

 

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Would you believe it from these two, broken record posting.

[Batman]

so how come Ron has made a point about the away form. if it is actually good?

[Saint Charlie]

However, the handful of teams who CAN defend properly - us, Leicester, Spurs, Man United - have got their rewards at times this season even when the strikers haven't been firing.

 

Just a shame that all the sides with similar defensive records away from home are in the CL places and top of the away table and we are 12th in the away table because we score so infrequently.

 

A clear area of focus for Koeman to marry the two next season.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Just a shame that all the sides with similar defensive records away from home are in the CL places and top of the away table and we are 12th in the away table because we score so infrequently.

 

A clear area of focus for Koeman to marry the two next season.

 

Do you actually like this club as you seem find every opportunity to talk it down...serious question

[Saint Charlie]

Do you actually like this club as you seem find every opportunity to talk it down...serious question

Finding ways to improve and not liking something are quite different.

 

I am sure the Club are quite self critical of what they do and are looking to continually improve.

 

To do that you first identify where you are weak and what you need to do to rectify it.

 

Koeman was frustrated today and said we haven't won enough away games, it doesn't mean he doesn't like the Club.

 

Serious answer.

[doddisalegend]

Just a shame that all the sides with similar defensive records away from home are in the CL places and top of the away table and we are 12th in the away table because we score so infrequently.

 

A clear area of focus for Koeman to marry the two next season.

 

yeah all he needs to do is sign Kane and Vardy if we actually had a 20 goal a season striker we'd be, stating the bleeding obvious, higher up the league. None of our attacking players are big goal scorers and with Mane and Pelle going through a prolonged dry patch from November right through until recently we have struggled to score even when playing well.

 

Having said that away from home I think we should have set up better to play counter attacking football playing Long or Mane (or both) up front, leaving Pelle firmly on the bench, and then be happy to just put balls over the opposition defence for those two run in behind.

Edited 22 April, 2016 by doddisalegend

[Sour Mash]

why cant Koeman be happy and remember where we were in the 90s

 

what he could do, is stop playing pelle every single minute (almost) he is fully fit. We could have a better counter attacking side without him

 

The stats above suggest it's much more than just a problem with Pellè, lack of contributions all over. But I do agree, we should set up for counter attack away from home more often.

[Batman]

The stats above suggest it's much more than just a problem with Pellè, lack of contributions all over. But I do agree, we should set up for counter attack away from home more often.

 

he just wont do it when Pelle is match fit.

as you know, I believe we would fair better using pelle like we do with the other forward players - as and when the situation determines. More so away from home

[kermitsaint]

Would you believe it from these two, broken record posting.

What a surprise! You have no opinion again .

 

Do you see it as your duty to critisize and berate everybody you meet face to face as well ? Or just on a forum where you can hide ?

Serious question .

 

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[Saint Charlie]

 

Later half of this sees Koeman talking on this topic.

 

Says poor away results and lack of goals the reason there is a gap between us and West Ham/Liverpool.

[MAY-Z]

Who would've thought in a season that has contained away wins against Manchester United and Chelsea - draws at Liverpool and arsenal (and hopefully a win against Tottenham to come) that away form is seemingly so poor

[Sheaf Saint]

 

Later half of this sees Koeman talking on this topic.

 

Says poor away results and lack of goals the reason there is a gap between us and West Ham/Liverpool.

 

He's absolutely right. Look at last weekend's game at Goodison as a case in point - we dominated the game all over the pitch and should have got 3 points. But our lack of killer instinct in front of goal cost us 2.

 

We haven't played badly away this season, with the possible exception of the Bournemouth game where Koeman got the formation hopelessly wrong. Our defensive shape has generally been good and our midfield has been mostly good as well. The only game I can remember where we got thoroughly dominated was at Arsenal, but thankfully Fraser kept them out that night. Aside from that our performances have been pretty good. Even the defeat at Man City we played OK and were the better team for most of the second half, but profligacy in front of goal again cost us, with Tadic wasting a glorious chance to make it 2-2 right before they scored their third.

 

I guess next season it all depends on us having a fit and on form Rodriguez and Austin available. Playing counter-attacking football with those two in the side - one a fast and agile player who can run in behind defences, and the other a poacher with a knack of being in the right place at the right time - hopefully we will score a lot more and we won't be having this discussion this time next year.

[tpbury]

He's absolutely right. Look at last weekend's game at Goodison as a case in point - we dominated the game all over the pitch and should have got 3 points. But our lack of killer instinct in front of goal cost us 2.

 

We haven't played badly away this season, with the possible exception of the Bournemouth game where Koeman got the formation hopelessly wrong. Our defensive shape has generally been good and our midfield has been mostly good as well. The only game I can remember where we got thoroughly dominated was at Arsenal, but thankfully Fraser kept them out that night. Aside from that our performances have been pretty good. Even the defeat at Man City we played OK and were the better team for most of the second half, but profligacy in front of goal again cost us, with Tadic wasting a glorious chance to make it 2-2 right before they scored their third.

 

I guess next season it all depends on us having a fit and on form Rodriguez and Austin available. Playing counter-attacking football with those two in the side - one a fast and agile player who can run in behind defences, and the other a poacher with a knack of being in the right place at the right time - hopefully we will score a lot more and we won't be having this discussion this time next year.

 

Like

[ALWAYS_SFC]

What a surprise! You have no opinion again .

 

Do you see it as your duty to critisize and berate everybody you meet face to face as well ? Or just on a forum where you can hide ?

Serious question .

 

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I did`nt critisize you just pointed out the inevitable that you and your twin would post yet another post attacking Koeman..

 

Hiding? i`t s a forum not skype.....

[kermitsaint]

I did`nt critisize you just pointed out the inevitable that you and your twin would post yet another post attacking Koeman..

 

Hiding? i`t s a forum not skype.....[emoji38]

Considering you are the most predictable poster on here thats amusing .

 

Its funny . You often attack people for changing their minds about something . You also attack those who stick to their original opinion .

 

You really are a sad little man hey

 

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[ALWAYS_SFC]

Finding ways to improve and not liking something are quite different.

 

I am sure the Club are quite self critical of what they do and are looking to continually improve.

 

To do that you first identify where you are weak and what you need to do to rectify it.

 

Koeman was frustrated today and said we haven't won enough away games, it doesn't mean he doesn't like the Club.

 

Serious answer.

 

Difference is though Charlie boy is he doesnt do it all the time does he......serious response

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Considering you are the most predictable poster on here thats amusing .

 

Its funny . You often attack people for changing their minds about something . You also attack those who stick to their original opinion .

 

You really are a sad little man hey

 

 

 

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I like you but only in a :lol: way but i was told as a youngster not to laugh at those that couldnt help how they are but i`ve made an exception for you;)

[shurlock]

I like you but only in a :lol: way but i was told as a youngster not to laugh at those that couldnt help how they are but i`ve made an exception for you;)

 

How old did you say you were again, pal? 58? Very odd indeed- you're like a cross between josef fritzl and kevin the teenager.

[Saint Charlie]

Difference is though Charlie boy is he doesnt do it all the time does he......serious response

I'm pretty sure Koeman would be looking for ways to improve all the time.

 

Anyway, after 7 or 8 posts on the thread how about one of them is actually on the topic of our away form?

[stevegrant]

Just a shame that all the sides with similar defensive records away from home are in the CL places and top of the away table and we are 12th in the away table because we score so infrequently.

 

A clear area of focus for Koeman to marry the two next season.

Yep, certainly, but it's a particular weirdness that while what everyone sees has been visibly wasteful in front of goal, the actual return of points is likely to have actually improved away from home.

 

It goes without saying that we'd always be looking to improve in all areas where possible - defensively I think we're in a pretty good place, as per the last couple of years, but despite having quite a lot of attacking players, they all seem to blow hot and cold. Austin, when he's had a couple of starts, hasn't really shown a great deal outside the box, which would be fine if we were creating loads of chances for him, but Mané and Tadic have been off the boil for long periods, so he's looked a bit lost. Long's been our stand-out attacking player all season, and this is a guy many people were demanding we should get rid of only a few months ago.

 

Just throwing this one out there, given the rumours related to both players, but how about Benteke as a replacement for Pelle in the summer, if we do get a decent enough offer from someone in Italy? Klopp clearly doesn't want him, and they'd have to take one hell of a haircut on the fee they paid a year ago, it could be our final merking of Liverpool's finance department

[doddisalegend]

Yep, certainly, but it's a particular weirdness that while what everyone sees has been visibly wasteful in front of goal, the actual return of points is likely to have actually improved away from home.

 

It goes without saying that we'd always be looking to improve in all areas where possible - defensively I think we're in a pretty good place, as per the last couple of years, but despite having quite a lot of attacking players, they all seem to blow hot and cold. Austin, when he's had a couple of starts, hasn't really shown a great deal outside the box, which would be fine if we were creating loads of chances for him, but Mané and Tadic have been off the boil for long periods, so he's looked a bit lost. Long's been our stand-out attacking player all season, and this is a guy many people were demanding we should get rid of only a few months ago.

 

Just throwing this one out there, given the rumours related to both players, but how about Benteke as a replacement for Pelle in the summer, if we do get a decent enough offer from someone in Italy? Klopp clearly doesn't want him, and they'd have to take one hell of a haircut on the fee they paid a year ago, it could be our final merking of Liverpool's finance department

 

 

I think Benteke would thrive in the current saints team who are constantly looking to cross the ball in to the box.

[Shance]

We need more goals without a doubt.

[Saint_clark]

so how come Ron has made a point about the away form. if it is actually good?

 

It's improving, but the club are aiming for even better. Nothing to be unhappy about there really.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

I'm pretty sure Koeman would be looking for ways to improve all the time.

 

Anyway, after 7 or 8 posts on the thread how about one of them is actually on the topic of our away form?

 

Of course he is but as i said he doesnt critisie the club al the time like you which was my point HTH

 

We need to improve in several areas but there are some that we are good at yet you never mention that...why?

 

Please send me the posting rules again

[ALWAYS_SFC]

How old did you say you were again, pal? 58? Very odd indeed- you're like a cross between josef fritzl and kevin the teenager.

 

Thats very funny

 

Never said anything about age and is irelevant to me how old any one is but in your bubble, it`s obviously different, whatever floats your boat pal

[kermitsaint]

You forgot to mention how Koeman is not responsible for our poor away form . You remembered to critisize though .

 

Please explain how Koeman is not responsible for our form ?

 

As has been mentioned before in this thread , Koeman is aiming to improve constantly. Please explain how after 2 seasons , we are improving ?

 

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[Batman]

any ideas why Koeman has made a point about our away form when there is nothing to worry about?

[Saint Charlie]

any ideas why Koeman has made a point about our away form when there is nothing to worry about?

Faarkoff you critical pr.ick. Do you even like Saints..?,,,,

[VectisSaint]

Of course he is but as i said he doesnt critisie the club al the time like you which was my point HTH

 

We need to improve in several areas but there are some that we are good at yet you never mention that...why?

 

Please send me the posting rules again

No need to send, its written clearly at the top of the Forum page.

"100% Saints discussion. Please keep it on-topic and civil. Abusive behaviour is not welcomed."

Pity so many do not follow the guidance and no-one does anything about it.

[CB Fry]

any ideas why Koeman has made a point about our away form when there is nothing to worry about?

Koeman has an anti-Saints agenda.