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Taking a step back........

washsaint

By washsaint,
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washsaint

washsaint

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Posted

While folks might be disappointed with this season it is worth considering the following:

 

1) This will be only the second time we have had 3 consecutive top 10 finishes in the top flight

2) Anyone who was there for the opener against Everton would never have thought we would be as high as we are and Everton as low as they are. It was terrible

3) Each year our best players are cherry picked by the glamour clubs (not lower level clubs) yet we still remain fairly consistent

4) We are still 8th despite losing 8 out of 10 games during the middle of the season

5) We still have a (outside) chance of matching our points tally from last season

 

It just shows how expectations have changed that people will consider themselves disappointed with an 8th place finish!

 

This season has been strange: great performances interspersed with terrible performances - but it is clear we need a creative midfielder as opposed to yet another winger who will flatter to deceive.

 

Hopefully we can continue to progress next season despite the likely departures of Wanyama and Mane.

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ant

ant

Posted
Posted

A fair few fans going OTT over missing out on Europe (not necessarily on here - bear with me) are the exact same ones that were saying in January that we were doomed for the drop.

 

Shows a) what a topsy turvy season we've had and b) just how quickly expectations build.

 

All in all we had a slow start then a good run, a horrendous run, a blinding run and are now cruising over the line. The horrendous run put paid to our chances of a higher finish; end of.

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

Posted
Posted (edited)

Finishing top 8 three seasons in a row ain't bad.

 

Cups have been disappointing but we put out strong teams in the cups and lost so I'm ok with that.

 

Europe was the most disappointing because we might not get it again for a while and we went out with a wimper.

 

All in all despite losing good players again last summer we are remaining pretty consistent in the top half of the table and we've had some great games to look back Liverpool at home being the best IMO.

 

Leicester winning (or nearly winning) the league has skewed fan expectations for a lot of clubs outside the traditional top six. A lot of fans (not just saints) seem disappointed with this season because this was the season the big boys slipped up, and alot of mid table teams didn't take advantage, and that might not happen again for a while.

Edited by doddisalegend
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The9

The9

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TBH I said 8th in January, it's entirely unsurprising. I've booked something else other than a US Tour and we're not likely to make Europe, so it'll be alright to get a summer where the only football is going to the Euros.

 

As long as we're better than most sides in the Prem I'm pretty satisfied, no-one else is getting a run at the title like Leicester have had in the next 15 years unless the new money changes the balance between the big clubs and the rest completely, and being better than bad is still a novel change. We'll still need the odd excitement here and there like a good start or a run of goals or clean sheets to keep it fresh, but overall, it's decent.

 

It would be nice to win a cup though, and it's getting easier for anyone who really wants to focus on that as clubs are rotating their squads for longer and longer in the competitions.

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Dig Dig

Dig Dig

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Posted
TBH I said 8th in January, it's entirely unsurprising. I've booked something else other than a US Tour and we're not likely to make Europe, so it'll be alright to get a summer where the only football is going to the Euros.

 

As long as we're better than most sides in the Prem I'm pretty satisfied, no-one else is getting a run at the title like Leicester have had in the next 15 years unless the new money changes the balance between the big clubs and the rest completely, and being better than bad is still a novel change. We'll still need the odd excitement here and there like a good start or a run of goals or clean sheets to keep it fresh, but overall, it's decent.

 

It would be nice to win a cup though, and it's getting easier for anyone who really wants to focus on that as clubs are rotating their squads for longer and longer in the competitions.

 

You could argue though that the change of dynamics at the top has been coming for a few seasons now, culminating in the run that Leicester are having at the title this season. Especially within the context that if Leicester don't win it, spurs will, something which wouldn't have been considered at the start of the season. Even without the new TV money, lower to mid table prem clubs have become an attractive proposition to a whole host of players who would have traditionally seen other more lucrative and appealing options on the continent. There has been a gradual shift in this regard in addition to clubs generally investing more in the overall structure of clubs including scouting, medicine and science, facilities and incrementally closing the gap on the traditional top sides as a result......most of whom seem more interested in spending huge sums on questionable players at the same time as making poor managerial choices. Hopefully the trend continues and the top 4 doesn't become a closed shop outside of 5-6 clubs again.

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SaintTex

SaintTex

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Posted
Anyone disappointed with the league season is a ****. Europe, however, I'm still nuts about.
Europa was frustrating, but understandable.

 

The team was so unsettled during that period, especially defensively. No Van Dijk yet, Wanyama's head turned by Arse/Spurs, Caulker was our 2nd best CB!!, etc. Plus, Clasie, Bertrand, and Forster were out injured.

 

Summer transfer period needs to end before the season starts.

 

ugh, I went back and looked at our Starting XI for that second Midtjylland match.

 

Stek

Martina

Fonte

Caulker

Yoshida

Targett

JWP

Romeu

Davis

JRod

Pelle

 

no wonder we didn't advance to the group stages.

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SNSUN

SNSUN

Posted
Posted

Pfft, Portsmouth's female fans would yank their penises for a season like ours.

 

This season we've been too inconsistent. Good runs then bad runs then good runs. Plus we've never had a settled side, formation changes, and star players not performing all the time. Still 8th (if that's what we get, no guarantees yet) is pretty decent. Could be better perhaps.

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whelk

whelk

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Posted

More than happy and was so much doom at times. Modern fans are so impatient and think just a manger or a tactical switch from winning any game. Even someone said in this thread the cups are easy to win now - they aren't but at least Koeman goes full tilt unlike your man Poch.

 

Away form is mental as infuriating in many ways as we don't capitalise but can't think of many games where I've thought we deserved nothing. As many have said a far cry from yesteryear.

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alpine_saint

alpine_saint

Posted
Posted
While folks might be disappointed with this season it is worth considering the following:

 

1) This will be only the second time we have had 3 consecutive top 10 finishes in the top flight

2) Anyone who was there for the opener against Everton would never have thought we would be as high as we are and Everton as low as they are. It was terrible

3) Each year our best players are cherry picked by the glamour clubs (not lower level clubs) yet we still remain fairly consistent

4) We are still 8th despite losing 8 out of 10 games during the middle of the season

5) We still have a (outside) chance of matching our points tally from last season

 

It just shows how expectations have changed that people will consider themselves disappointed with an 8th place finish!

 

This season has been strange: great performances interspersed with terrible performances - but it is clear we need a creative midfielder as opposed to yet another winger who will flatter to deceive.

 

Hopefully we can continue to progress next season despite the likely departures of Wanyama and Mane.

 

All true.

 

But from my side, it seems nigh well impossible to push on from this level. Much as I am pleased that Leicester have challenged the status quo this season (and arguably we did for 3/4 of last season), I am not sure I see it becoming a regular occurrence in the future. The big 4/5/6 will simply buy out the opposition every summer.

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SaintCox

SaintCox

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Posted

I agree, another top half finish is not to be scoffed at. It is frustrating that on out day we can beat anyone but also lose to anyone. However the days of being considered an easy 3 points are long gone and others know they are always in for a tough game.

 

Even though one or two are bound to leave in the summer it is good to see that we have recruited and bedded replacements. Something that we were not able to do when Poch left.

 

I do not agree with those that think this season will be our best shot at the top 7 places. There is so much money in the league. Gone are the days where only the big clubs can have a good solid squad. Many clubs in the top ten and even below are stocked full of international quality and that isn't going to change, if anything it will become more the norm. The big clubs need all stars to perform to beat the mid table ones (Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea) It is more likely the league gets tighter than we see 2 teams dominate like the 90s again. This can only be exacerbated by the constant managerial changes and squad culling. Maybe it will not be Leics or Spurs (both of which have had good recruitment, not much player turnover and a lack of injury to key players) but West Ham or us.

 

We need to keep building the corporate cash flow, have good signings in advance of expected departures and maintain momentum. Signing Ronald for longer in the summer will be a good start.

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ant

ant

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Posted
But from my side, it seems nigh well impossible to push on from this level. Much as I am pleased that Leicester have challenged the status quo this season (and arguably we did for 3/4 of last season), I am not sure I see it becoming a regular occurrence in the future. The big 4/5/6 will simply buy out the opposition every summer.

 

That argument makes zero sense. Who could have seen the way forward for Leicester 12 months ago, beyond planning for another season of avoiding relegation? The money being loaded towards the top 5 or 6 is nothing new and was very much still the case in 2015-16 too.

 

Arguably this season has shown it to be anything other than a flash in the pan. With Man City, Man United, Liverpool AND Chelsea all faltering (to various extremes) it demonstrates the frailty of even the biggest clubs. That can't all be solved by simply throwing money at the problems.

 

Three seasons of 'top 8' establishes us rather nicely. I'm not saying that pushing on won't require redoubling our efforts, nor that it won't rely on a bigger club or two stumbling. The crucial point is ensuring that we're primed to pounce when they do.

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alpine_saint

alpine_saint

Posted
Posted

 

Arguably this season has shown it to be anything other than a flash in the pan. With Man City, Man United, Liverpool AND Chelsea all faltering (to various extremes) it demonstrates the frailty of even the biggest clubs. That can't all be solved by simply throwing money at the problems.

 

 

All 4 of those clubs have had managerial issues simultaneously, and one could even argue so have Arsenal. For me that probability rates just behind a blue moon.

 

In the summer their managerial issues will be resolved and they will spend, spend, spend to solve the on-field issues.

 

Spurs will strengthen to improve on their runners-up position, Liverpool will do something similar, god knows what Arsenal will do, and at the same time Saints and Leicester will be eviscerated. Normal service will be resumed.

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Alanh

Alanh

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Posted
All 4 of those clubs have had managerial issues simultaneously, and one could even argue so have Arsenal. For me that probability rates just behind a blue moon.

 

In the summer their managerial issues will be resolved and they will spend, spend, spend to solve the on-field issues.

 

Spurs will strengthen to improve on their runners-up position, Liverpool will do something similar, god knows what Arsenal will do, and at the same time Saints and Leicester will be eviscerated. Normal service will be resumed.

 

No one would have predicted this time last year that Jose would implode at Chelsea so there's no telling what might happen at any of the big clubs and whether their new managers hit the ground running. They all have excellent pedigree, but Pep and Conte are new to the Prem so may take a bit of time to adjust.

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

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Posted

11 seasons out of 130 Southampton have finished in the top 8 of English league football.

 

2 of those 11 were in 2013/14 and 2014/15. If Saints (as looks likely) make the top 8 this season, it'll be the 3rd time in a row, two of which under Ronald Koeman. 2015/16 is in the top 10% of all Southampton league seasons!

 

Yet we still get endless negative drivel threads from certain posters. Cheers up! 2013 to 2016 has been a relative golden age for the club.

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman

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Posted
11 seasons out of 130 Southampton have finished in the top 8 of English league football.

 

2 of those 11 were in 2013/14 and 2014/15. If Saints (as looks likely) make the top 8 this season, it'll be the 3rd time in a row, two of which under Ronald Koeman. 2015/16 is in the top 10% of all Southampton league seasons!

 

Yet we still get endless negative drivel threads from certain posters. Cheers up! 2013 to 2016 has been a relative golden age for the club.

 

A good post. Your best post in fact.

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david in sweden

david in sweden

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Posted
Our younger generation of fans have been spoilt by success.

 

How right you are. I'm not the oldest fan on this board (despite nearly 60 years as a supporter). For much of that time Saints have struggled .

That record of 27 seasons in the top flight rarely saw us finish much above halfway, and gave many fans heart tremours until the last games of the season.

 

Even the memory of 1976 is wearing a bit thin by now, BUT despite that, those great Div 2 seasons in the early 1960's....when we almost scored for fun - and those Ron Davies' goals saving us every season in our first top flight sojourn, and MLT doing the same in the 1990's ....and of course the legendary McMenemy teams of the late 70's and early 80's ... I still think our successes in the last 7 years have been outstanding, and I've enjoyed them all.

 

Sad?.....or critical about the lack of European football ? Forget it. In retrospect we're doing well, and if we think of Europe as the icing on the cake......just remember that our slice of the "cake " this season will still be more money than this club has ever seen.

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Nordic Saint

Nordic Saint

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Posted
Europa was frustrating, but understandable.

 

The team was so unsettled during that period, especially defensively. No Van Dijk yet, Wanyama's head turned by Arse/Spurs, Caulker was our 2nd best CB!!, etc. Plus, Clasie, Bertrand, and Forster were out injured.

 

Summer transfer period needs to end before the season starts.

 

ugh, I went back and looked at our Starting XI for that second Midtjylland match.

 

Stek

Martina

Fonte

Caulker

Yoshida

Targett

JWP

Romeu

Davis

JRod

Pelle

 

no wonder we didn't advance to the group stages.

 

That is an excellent point, SaintTex. Half of that team are barely Championship standard, let alone European class. It would be great if we didn't plug gaps with cheap options like Steckelenburg, Martina, Targett and Caulker, next season. Playing such poor players in so many games not only saw us fail to make the Europa League group stage but also cost us a top 5 finish this season.

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Nordic Saint

Nordic Saint

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Posted
Which 5 or 6 of that team are "barely Championship standard"? The entire eleven have shown themselves to be good enough for the Premier League.

 

Steckelenburg (since his shoulder injuries. Yes, I know he USED TO BE good, long before he got injured and came to us), Targett (he even looks a defensive liability in the U21s), Caulker (washed up because of his heavy drinking and other issues), Martina (he's just not a defender), Ward-Prowse (Very overrated. He's a waste of space in most games), Yoshida (might just scrape into one of the bottom 3 teams but he's basically an average Championship level defender).

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Shance

Shance

Posted
Posted
Steckelenburg (since his shoulder injuries. Yes, I know he USED TO BE good, long before he got injured and came to us), Targett (he even looks a defensive liability in the U21s), Caulker (washed up because of his heavy drinking and other issues), Martina (he's just not a defender), Ward-Prowse (Very overrated. He's a waste of space in most games), Yoshida (might just scrape into one of the bottom 3 teams but he's basically an average Championship level defender).

 

You're being harsh on Stek, Targett and Ward Prowse. None of them are championship standard players. They are all a level above.

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Dalek2003

Dalek2003

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Posted
How right you are. I'm not the oldest fan on this board (despite nearly 60 years as a supporter). For much of that time Saints have struggled .

That record of 27 seasons in the top flight rarely saw us finish much above halfway, and gave many fans heart tremours until the last games of the season.

 

Even the memory of 1976 is wearing a bit thin by now, BUT despite that, those great Div 2 seasons in the early 1960's....when we almost scored for fun - and those Ron Davies' goals saving us every season in our first top flight sojourn, and MLT doing the same in the 1990's ....and of course the legendary McMenemy teams of the late 70's and early 80's ... I still think our successes in the last 7 years have been outstanding, and I've enjoyed them all.

 

Sad?.....or critical about the lack of European football ? Forget it. In retrospect we're doing well, and if we think of Europe as the icing on the cake......just remember that our slice of the "cake " this season will still be more money than this club has ever seen.

 

I agree with your sentiments. Those heroic relegations struggles in the 80's and 90's were a golden age imo.

 

Having said that I am grateful for a season like this, although I genuinely thought we were going to be sucked into a relegation scrap. Mind you, I think that every year.

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saintoaks

saintoaks

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Posted
How is it relevant? If we're endlessly grateful for it being relatively better now we can't discuss anything! We were absolutely woeful in the championship before we went down. Those two years were the worst I've seen, ever. That doesn't mean we can't analyse our season based on signings, potential, form, tactics, management and compare it to the quality of the league this year.

 

It's relevant because the original post I replied to was about how direct we've been this season.

 

Coastal Saint

"I think our style of football has been very poor this season. We are much more direct than we have been for years"

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Redslo

Redslo

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Posted
11 seasons out of 130 Southampton have finished in the top 8 of English league football.

 

2 of those 11 were in 2013/14 and 2014/15. If Saints (as looks likely) make the top 8 this season, it'll be the 3rd time in a row, two of which under Ronald Koeman. 2015/16 is in the top 10% of all Southampton league seasons!

 

Yet we still get endless negative drivel threads from certain posters. Cheers up! 2013 to 2016 has been a relative golden age for the club.

 

Worst Brooke Shields movie ever.

 

Our younger generation of fans have been spoilt by success.

 

Is that a bad thing?

 

Which 5 or 6 of that team are "barely Championship standard"? The entire eleven have shown themselves to be good enough for the Premier League.

 

Obviously, he was exaggerating since clearly even the worst of those 11 would be high quality for the Championship. On the other hand, at most four of those players get into our current best 11 so it was a weak side for Southampton FC 2015-2016.

 

Steckelenburg (since his shoulder injuries. Yes, I know he USED TO BE good, long before he got injured and came to us), Targett (he even looks a defensive liability in the U21s), Caulker (washed up because of his heavy drinking and other issues), Martina (he's just not a defender), Ward-Prowse (Very overrated. He's a waste of space in most games), Yoshida (might just scrape into one of the bottom 3 teams but he's basically an average Championship level defender).

 

You're being harsh on Stek, Targett and Ward Prowse. None of them are championship standard players. They are all a level above.

 

Certainly, they are not "barely" championship standard--unless barely means something different in English English than it does in American English. Perhaps he was saying they could play in the Championship even if nude.

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Saints Fan Dan

Saints Fan Dan

Posted
Posted

I'm happy with another top 10 finish. I know RK will be disappointed with not qualifying for Europe but we've never looked good enough for top 6.

 

The season I was disappointed with was 13/14. We had probably the most gifted Saints squad ever and all we managed was 8th. I always thought we should have finished higher. It was over in January and you could never truly enjoy the rest because we all knew what was going to happen in the summer.

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Redslo

Redslo

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Posted
I'm happy with another top 10 finish. I know RK will be disappointed with not qualifying for Europe but we've never looked good enough for top 6.

 

The season I was disappointed with was 13/14. We had probably the most gifted Saints squad ever and all we managed was 8th. I always thought we should have finished higher. It was over in January and you could never truly enjoy the rest because we all knew what was going to happen in the summer.

 

If we are going to express our retroactive disappointment, I vote for the January 2015 transfer window. Despite the obvious fact that both Wanyama and Schneiderlin were going to get enough yellow cards to miss two games each, we sold their strongest backup Cork--just to save three million pounds when a couple places in the League and the Europa Group stage would have brought much more than that. And, of course, Schneiderlin got injured making the decision even worse. Despite the obvious fact that we needed a decent back up goal keeper, we didn't get one and Forster got injured effectively ending our ability to play at a top four (or even top half) level. Those two decision probably cost us 10 points and the Champions League. They certainly cost us 2 points and the Europa Group stage. While the injuries were bad luck, they were a foreseeable bad luck risk at two important positions at which we lacked adequate depth.

 

These decisions made no sense to me at the time and they still don't.

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spyinthesky

spyinthesky

Posted
Posted
How right you are. I'm not the oldest fan on this board (despite nearly 60 years as a supporter). For much of that time Saints have struggled .

That record of 27 seasons in the top flight rarely saw us finish much above halfway, and gave many fans heart tremours until the last games of the season.

 

Even the memory of 1976 is wearing a bit thin by now, BUT despite that, those great Div 2 seasons in the early 1960's....when we almost scored for fun - and those Ron Davies' goals saving us every season in our first top flight sojourn, and MLT doing the same in the 1990's ....and of course the legendary McMenemy teams of the late 70's and early 80's ... I still think our successes in the last 7 years have been outstanding, and I've enjoyed them all.

 

Sad?.....or critical about the lack of European football ? Forget it. In retrospect we're doing well, and if we think of Europe as the icing on the cake......just remember that our slice of the "cake " this season will still be more money than this club has ever seen.

 

David

I am another long serving supporter

In my early days in Division 3 South and after 1960 in Div 2, we were an attractive side, full of goals, playing in a compact ground with very basic facilities and a relatively small core support.

My generation was brought up on tales of the disappointments our elders felt after the failed promotion campaigns in the late 1940's and there was little expectation of reaching the nirvana of Division 1 or winning a trophy

My Dad, who supported Saints from the time they joined the League in 1921 until his death in 1996, would have been delighted to see where Saints are now, playing in a modern stadium where the view is great, the pitch is pristine and supporters are protected from the weather.

From my perspective I am happy to feel confident that the team can hold its own in the Prem with a good infrastructure

It is also good that many more youngsters are seen around town in Saints kit rather than the Man Utd/Liverpool/London clubs shirts

My

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