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Failure to qualify for Europe and this summer's transfer market


SaintJackoInHurworth

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So, without wanting to completely write-off our chances of European qualification, it is looking increasingly unlikely. I would suggest if we are to qualify it would require either a win for Man City in the CL or a win for Liverpool in the EL - or both.

 

Currently we can assume that Man City will qualify for Europe by virtue of league position and so their League Cup place will pass to the team finishing sixth. If City win the CL then five teams will qualify for the CL and EL places will go to the teams in sixth and seventh. If Liverpool also win the EL then it is possible that European qulaification will extend to the team in eighth (though some, such as Danny Kelly on Radio Five suggest this is unlikely).

 

However, without spending too long analysing our chances of European qualification (especially as there are others threads which do that), if we don't qualify for Europe, what impact will that have on what happens in the transfer market this summer?

 

Will Wanyama and Mane leave? Are there others that might want to leave if there is no prospect of European football? And what about players we might buy? Could failure to qualify for Europe affect our ability to attract new players?

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I think it will make little difference. CL isthe draw, not El.

 

But, I'll be pleasantly surprised if we keep either of Mané or Wanyama. Bertrand and Forster will be the subject of speculation too, at least. We may struggle to keep Ronald.

 

Let's hope the black box is working well.

 

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk

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Not overly bothered about keeping Wanyama and Mane if we get good offers. It's Forster, Bertrand, Long and Koeman I want us to keep at all costs.

 

EL won't make a difference to any of them. Even CL won't matter much. When Chelsea don't qualify for the CL or EL do you think Mane would turn them down? No, he wants to play for the biggest club he can for as much money as he can. Same with most players.

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Pretty certain that 8th doesn't get Europe whatever happens.

 

I have full trust in Ronald. If we keep everyone, then we probably need a RB and maybe another attacking player. Possibly a backup keeper assuming Stekelenburg will go back to Fulham or go elsewhere.

 

Baring in mind that Wanyama and Mane are 90% gone, I'd like to see us go and buy a top young wide player, and another CM (unless Romeu is the replacement and Reed steps up).

 

At the end of the day, if we offer the money, then players will come. Would love to get Chamberlain back and we can help him rebuild his career.

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Pretty certain that 8th doesn't get Europe whatever happens.

 

I have full trust in Ronald. If we keep everyone, then we probably need a RB and maybe another attacking player. Possibly a backup keeper assuming Stekelenburg will go back to Fulham or go elsewhere.

 

Baring in mind that Wanyama and Mane are 90% gone, I'd like to see us go and buy a top young wide player, and another CM (unless Romeu is the replacement and Reed steps up).

 

At the end of the day, if we offer the money, then players will come. Would love to get Chamberlain back and we can help him rebuild his career.

 

Steckelenburg is a free agent at the end of the season. I expect talks have been held already.

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Pretty certain that 8th doesn't get Europe whatever happens.

 

I have full trust in Ronald. If we keep everyone, then we probably need a RB and maybe another attacking player.

 

Pretty poor show if after signing two RBs in the previous summer window we need another one this time.

 

Recruitment is the key. We had a massive chance this season to get a top 4 place, certainly top 6. But ultimately last summer was average at best. Only VVD has been a total success and which when you sign 7 or 8 players is a poor ratio.

 

Hopefully Wilson does a better job this time around.

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Pretty poor show if after signing two RBs in the previous summer window we need another one this time.

Recruitment is the key. We had a massive chance this season to get a top 4 place, certainly top 6. But ultimately last summer was average at best. Only VVD has been a total success and which when you sign 7 or 8 players is a poor ratio.

 

Hopefully Wilson does a better job this time around.

 

We lost two in the previous two windows, no guarantee both of the replacements would work out. If anything it's a response to Yoshida no longer being considered as an option there.

 

Overall I don't think the Europa situation is a big deal - the massive wages all Prem teams will be able to offer players from Europe will be a greater factor than European football once you get past the top 7 - and I doubt anyone who wants big money or Prem football will stay at a European club which is in the Europa League just because of that.

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What makes you think he wouldn't change his coaching to suit the players?

 

do you think he will?

always played with a 'big lad' up top.

 

at the mo we are a fair bit like a pulis stoke. Loads of balls in the box, a big lump up top, busy wide and very dirty

 

what on his CV with that is good enough for a team like Barcelona. Unless they just hire this name and all that

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Pretty poor show if after signing two RBs in the previous summer window we need another one this time.

 

Recruitment is the key. We had a massive chance this season to get a top 4 place, certainly top 6. But ultimately last summer was average at best. Only VVD has been a total success and which when you sign 7 or 8 players is a poor ratio.

 

Hopefully Wilson does a better job this time around.

 

We lost Paul 'black box' Mitchell to Tottenham. Luckily for us, he identified Van Dijk as a key target before he left.

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do you think he will?

always played with a 'big lad' up top.

 

at the mo we are a fair bit like a pulis stoke. Loads of balls in the box, a big lump up top, busy wide and very dirty

what on his CV with that is good enough for a team like Barcelona. Unless they just hire this name and all that

 

 

Hilariously wrong:lol:

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Hilariously wrong:lol:

 

how is that wrong?

do we not put lots of balls in the box?

do we not play with a slow lump up top?

are we not top the table with red cards?

do we not have busy players out wide?

do we not play with two ball winners in the middle of the park?

are we not dangerous from set pieces?

 

is that all a lie?

 

the only thing we dont do is give a delap long throw into the box. Although, Martina is trying

 

I am abolutely not bothered by that as it works for us very well. But lets not pretend the style of football we have is anything that would be acceptable to barcelona. not even close

Edited by Batman
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how is that wrong?

do we not put lots of balls in the box?

do we not play with a slow lump up top?

are we not top the table with red cards?

do we not have busy players out wide?

do we not play with two ball winners in the middle of the park?

are we not dangerous from set pieces?

 

is that all a lie?

 

the only thing we dont do is give a delap long throw into the box. Although, Martina is trying

 

We put some balls in to the box not all the time

Recentlly we have been playing with Pelle and Long up top with Tadic and mane wide

Some of the reds are very dubious as has been discussed and we are far from dirty

Busy players what ever that means????

Wanyama and Clasie/Romeu so yes we do play 2 ball winners

Is being dangerous at set pieces wrong then

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do you think he will?

always played with a 'big lad' up top.

 

at the mo we are a fair bit like a pulis stoke. Loads of balls in the box, a big lump up top, busy wide and very dirty

 

what on his CV with that is good enough for a team like Barcelona. Unless they just hire this name and all that

 

I'd disagree that was even Pulis' style, never mind that it's what we do. We cross a lot, but we also counterattack a lot and run at players from deep with the ball. We don't actively play for set-pieces, for instance.

 

We're also not "dirty", Other than Wanyama's need to make himself unavailable for selection but available for wages we're probably one of the cleaner sides.

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We put some balls in to the box not all the time

Recentlly we have been playing with Pelle and Long up top with Tadic and mane wide

Some of the reds are very dubious as has been discussed and we are far from dirty

Busy players what ever that means????

Wanyama and Clasie/Romeu so yes we do play 2 ball winners

Is being dangerous at set pieces wrong then

so, a fair bit like a Pulis Stoke side then and a fair bit off the chart to what barcelona demand at least from their side.

 

Glad you agree

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how is that wrong?

do we not put lots of balls in the box? YES

do we not play with a slow lump up top? NO

are we not top the table with red cards? YES but only due to one player

do we not have busy players out wide? WHO DOESN'T?

do we not play with two ball winners in the middle of the park? WHO DOESN'T?

are we not dangerous from set pieces? NO MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE

 

is that all a lie? NO, JUST WRONG

 

And also, Barcelona have a style, Koeman would manage to that style.

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so, a fair bit like a Pulis Stoke side then and a fair bit off the chart to what barcelona demand at least from their side.

 

Glad you agree

 

:mcinnes:

 

We put crosses in to the box, no other team does, not one never :lol:

 

We get red cards..no one else does, none of them :lol:

 

We score from set pieces...no other club does....none..West ham, liverpool,man city,spurs, Leicester...you geting the point?

 

All that makes us like a Pulis side....really :scared:

 

Agree with you!! are you reading it wrong...think so :uhoh:

 

 

Perhaps we should have poll then

 

Are we like a Pulis side yes or no

 

Could also ask a few pundits by e mail too...i`m sure they could do with a laugh

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Oh ok. is that how it works?

how come we have left the style we 'had' before he came here then?

 

Because certain managers have a style they impose and others adapt to what they have.

 

Pochettino is a Bielsa advocate, he's never going to do anything other than high press and swarming breaks, and thanks to bringing Mitchell with him he's also brought in players that play in that way to perpetuate it. That was Pochettino enforcing his Plan A going away, rather than Koeman enforcing anything in particular. We play football like everyone else who doesn't have a defined style, and in fact we're very flexible in formation and approach this season.

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:mcinnes:

 

We put crosses in to the box, no other team does, not one never :lol:

 

We get red cards..no one else does, none of them :lol:

 

We score from set pieces...no other club does....none..West ham, liverpool,man city,spurs, Leicester...you geting the point?

 

All that makes us like a Pulis side....really :scared:

 

Agree with you!! are you reading it wrong...think so :uhoh:

 

 

Perhaps we should have poll then

 

Are we like a Pulis side yes or no

 

Could also ask a few pundits by e mail too...i`m sure they could do with a laugh

 

Because certain managers have a style they impose and others adapt to what they have.

 

Pochettino is a Bielsa advocate, he's never going to do anything other than high press and swarming breaks, and thanks to bringing Mitchell with him he's also brought in players that play in that way to perpetuate it. That was Pochettino enforcing his Plan A going away, rather than Koeman enforcing anything in particular. We play football like everyone else who doesn't have a defined style, and in fact we're very flexible in formation and approach this season.

 

Batman?? Any thing to add/imagine/make up;)

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I'm still laughing at the mere idea that Southampton play even remotely like a Pulis Stoke team. I don't think anyone else in the world shares that view, even in jest.

 

We place a much greater emphasis on possession than Pulis' teams do/did, but our main means of attack is similar. Get it wide and get the balls in the box. We are top of the league this season for crosses into the box so clearly we are placing a greater emphasis on that than the rest

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The idea that Koeman doesn't have a defined style is feeble drivel. Two seasons in and its pretty clear what Koeman's priorities are: the emphasis on defensive compactness, including from midfield; the importance of conventional wingplay as our main source of creativity and the relative indifference to possession - both of which have implications for the type of forward we use. The formations may change, though the style doesn't.

 

The comparisons with Pulis are obvious hyperbole; but I'd argue Koeman has more in common with Pards (at least when he was at the club) than Poch or even Adkins.

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We lost Paul 'black box' Mitchell to Tottenham. Luckily for us, he identified Van Dijk as a key target before he left.

 

I dont know how much Mitchell played a role in that but without him Van Dijk would have been playing for Southampton as well. Koeman wanted to bring in Van Dijk even before Toby, he has been knowing van Dijk for years. Ronald's father (Martin Koeman) was the head scout at Groningen in Holland when they brought Van Dijk in from Willem 2. And its not a secret that Ronald always liked Tadic and Van Dijk and through his father, he knew everything about them.

 

Van Dijk and Tadic spanked Feyenoord in one match, in Koeman's first year as the manager, when they both played at Groningen and won 6-0 with both scoring goals and assists.

 

So i dont know how high Van Dijk was on the scouting reports before Koeman joined the club (probably pretty high) but Koeman knew everything about Van Dijk before Mitchell even joined Southampton.

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There seems to be a lot of emphasis by players and management for us finishing in a Europa league place.

Every interview has this content at the moment and to me they are over doing it unless there is another reason. Today it's all about Europa this and we need to finish here but why, maybe Koemans future depends on it as didn't he say he will stay if we keep improving so finishing 8th could see him walk.

Europa league is not going to be the make or break for keeping or signing players money is.

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I'm still laughing at the mere idea that Southampton play even remotely like a Pulis Stoke team. I don't think anyone else in the world shares that view, even in jest.

 

Most crosses

most red cards

least amount of 'dribbles' by our players

lower half in terms of possession

fairly high up in the number of fouls committed

Most aerial duals won

big lump as a central striker

 

The Pulis/Stoke comparison may have been a tad OTT but of any team, we are the nearest there is IMO

Edited by Batman
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Most crosses

most red cards

least amount of 'dribbles' by our players

lower half in terms of possession

fairly high up in the number of fouls committed

Most aerial duals won

big lump as a central striker

 

The Pulis/Stoke comparison may have been a tad OTT but of any team, we are the nearest there is IMO

 

You have just described West Ham!!

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Europa League qualification will be a factor, but probably not a big or decisive one. We're one of the more attractive propositions in England, but with the TV money we'll inevitably have inflated prices and rivals willing to spend more than us. We'll quickly have to assess the lie of the land to make sure we can secure our targets. What we don't want is to sell Wanyama and find our replacement has already signed for someone else, as appears to have happened with Clyne last year.

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Most crosses

most red cards

least amount of 'dribbles' by our players

lower half in terms of possession

fairly high up in the number of fouls committed

Most aerial duals won

big lump as a central striker

 

The Pulis/Stoke comparison may have been a tad OTT but of any team, we are the nearest there is IMO

 

TBF if Saints signed Messi, Suarez and Neymar you'd still have it that RK would play Pelle every week.

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Pretty certain that 8th doesn't get Europe whatever happens.

 

Could this happen?

 

1st Tottenham CL Through League

2nd Leicester CL Through League

3rd Man City CL Through League

4th Arsenal CL Through League

5th Liverpool CL Through Winning Europa League

6th Man Utd EL Through Winning FA Cup

7th West Ham EL in Place of Liverpool

8th Southampton EL in Place of Man Utd

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Most crosses

most red cards

least amount of 'dribbles' by our players

lower half in terms of possession

fairly high up in the number of fouls committed

Most aerial duals won

big lump as a central striker

 

The Pulis/Stoke comparison may have been a tad OTT but of any team, we are the nearest there is IMO

 

Personally I'd think West Brom were comfortably the nearest to a Pulis team currently playing in the Premier League.

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Europa League qualification will be a factor, but probably not a big or decisive one. We're one of the more attractive propositions in England, but with the TV money we'll inevitably have inflated prices and rivals willing to spend more than us. We'll quickly have to assess the lie of the land to make sure we can secure our targets. What we don't want is to sell Wanyama and find our replacement has already signed for someone else, as appears to have happened with Clyne last year.

 

Who was our preferred right back replacement?

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Could this happen?

 

1st Tottenham CL Through League

2nd Leicester CL Through League

3rd Man City CL Through League

4th Arsenal CL Through League

5th Liverpool CL Through Winning Europa League

6th Man Utd EL Through Winning FA Cup

7th West Ham EL in Place of Liverpool

8th Southampton EL in Place of Man Utd

 

I've seen talk that the Liverpool CL place from winning the EL removes the third EL place and instead there's a "one team moved up" effect through the rest of Europe's coefficients for competition qualification, but can't be bothered to check if this is accurate. In which case in your scenario Man U get EL from FA Cup win, West Ham would get Man City's League Cup winning place, and that's it.

 

I am not suggestion that is accurate, just that it's what's been said.

 

EDIT: I've seen the BBC reporting that it isn't the 3rd EL place going if the EL and CL winners are English, it's that there are only 3 Prem League places for the CL, so that 4th place would be the first EL position rather than a CL one. There's then a League Cup winner place and an FA Cup winner place for Europa League, both of which go to the Prem if teams which have already made the CL finish top 4. (City's is already an extra one for the League if they come top 4, or if they come lower but win the CL).

Edited by The9
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Kieran Trippier but Paul Mitchell took him to Spurs.

 

Was there any real evidence of interest though, other than being touted on here ? I recall one newspaper report where his name was mentioned as a potential Saints target but apart from that, nothing. Shame as I suspect he'd have been a better option than the two we brought in.

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Was there any real evidence of interest though, other than being touted on here ? I recall one newspaper report where his name was mentioned as a potential Saints target but apart from that, nothing. Shame as I suspect he'd have been a better option than the two we brought in.

 

I think people are looking for problems where there aren't any. It's the technique of following players that works, not one persons approach. That is why we were not worried when Mitchell left. There are plenty of good replacements. Similarly, as someone else said, there are enough good players around in all positions for us to compete against the top teams. Do people honestly think Trippier was saying to himself 'I want to go wherever Mitchell goes...'

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Who was our preferred right back replacement?

 

I don't know - the fact there was a first choice which fell through was mentioned by Les Reed in those behind the scenes videos from a few months ago but he wasn't named. Trippier is a good guess.

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I think people are looking for problems where there aren't any. It's the technique of following players that works, not one persons approach. That is why we were not worried when Mitchell left. There are plenty of good replacements. Similarly, as someone else said, there are enough good players around in all positions for us to compete against the top teams. Do people honestly think Trippier was saying to himself 'I want to go wherever Mitchell goes...'

 

No, I think he was probably thinking "ooh, Spurs will pay me more than Saints, and now I have someone there who's been trying to sign me".

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Let's be honest Koeman has done a good job but despite losing players he also go plenty to reinvest so he hasn't done it on a shoestring.

He is a very good manager but I'm not sure he's done enough at Saints to go from us to what is possibly the world's top managerial post.

Perhaps Barca will look beyond that and want him due to his playing career and association with the club, I'm sure he would be a popular appointment.

I just wonder if he has the managerial record they would require. I don't think you go from Saints to Barca. You might go from a top 5 club to Barca.

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