Villa vs Saints - Build Up

[Chris27687]

What chance Moyes is in position on Saturday, new manager syndrome and all that ?

 

It's been quite an amazing fall from grace from Moyes - from Chosen one to begging for Championship jobs in the space of 2 years.

[SuperSAINT]

They've had 9 straight defeats.

 

I think we'll be set-up the same as the last 2 games. 4-4-2 / 4-2-4.

[hasper57saint]

All the talk up here is that a fill-in Manager to the end of the season then they'll go for experience in the break before the next campaign.

PS. Nigel Pearson is the fans choice but fans don't appoint Managers.

[scotty]

It's been quite an amazing fall from grace from Moyes - from Chosen one to begging for Championship jobs in the space of 2 years.

 

 

It always surprised me that he left everton, that's one of those rare times when a manager seemed perfectly suited to that particular club. Obviously there's the "biggest club in the country" thing, more money to spend on players and more money for himself, but it still surprised me.

[Saints67]

Every little helps

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36083746

[The9]

It always surprised me that he left everton, that's one of those rare times when a manager seemed perfectly suited to that particular club. Obviously there's the "biggest club in the country" thing, more money to spend on players and more money for himself, but it still surprised me.

 

Having read a book which talked about his detailed planning at Everton, I'm not surprised that he wasn't a success at United - he didn't have time to put his structures in place which at Everton led to him with endless charts plotting contracts, development and player age regression arcs and expected players to fill vacancies 3 years down the line. There was no way he could have delivered the instant results they expected when the corporates were also in a state of flux and not particularly competent at recruiting new players.

 

Though he also didn't do himself any favours by not quite grasping that Man U fans expect their manager to talk utter cobblers about how massive they are at every opportunity and to have no humility whatsoever - Van Gaal's got that bit sussed anyway.

[The9]

Every little helps

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36083746

 

I can't see how them not having that useless fat knacker available is helping us to be honest. He was the size of a house at St Mary's and was clearly on his holidays in October, never mind now.

[Chris27687]

I will be amazed if we don't beat them by more than 3 goals.

[Dark Munster]

Think we need 9 points to equal last season's total, but last season we just squeaked 7th and it was a tad unusual for this position to be good enough for Europe.

 

If you want us to qualify, you probably need Liverpool to screw up badly in the Premier League but not win the Europa League and Man Utd to win the FA Cup. If those things both happen, 9 points might well be enough. If they don't both happen, then 12 points probably isn't enough anyway.

Liverpool winning the EL can't hurt (or help) us, regardless where they finish. Similarly City in the CL. The top 6 are guaranteed european football, and 7th as well if Utd win the FA cup and finish in the top 6. There are various permutations depending if Liverpool and/or City win their european cup (4 CL + 3 EL, 5 CL + 3 EL, or 5 CL + 2 EL), but none of those concern us.

 

Utd winning the cup is what we need if we finish 7th.

[The9]

Liverpool winning the EL can't hurt (or help) us, regardless where they finish. Similarly City in the CL. The top 6 are guaranteed european football, and 7th as well if Utd win the FA cup and finish in the top 6. There are various permutations depending if Liverpool and/or City win their european cup (4 CL + 3 EL, 5 CL + 3 EL, or 5 CL + 2 EL), but none of those concern us.

 

Utd winning the cup is what we need if we finish 7th.

 

Still not convinced there's a 5 CL and 3 EL version of this based on the wording from UEFA.

[Dark Munster]

Still not convinced there's a 5 CL and 3 EL version of this based on the wording from UEFA.

If Liverpool win the EL and finish outside a EL place then it's 5 CL + 3 EL. It's only if they win the EL and finish in an EL place that it's 5 CL + 2 EL. The rules state that an EL spot is lost only if they win the EL and finish in an EL spot (so in effect an EL spot is converted to a CL spot).

 

In short, them winning the EL doesn't punish any team finishing in what would otherwise be a European spot (except the 4th placed team going from CL to EL if City also win the CL and finish outside the top 4).

[Lighthouse]

If Liverpool win the EL and finish outside a EL place then it's 5 CL + 3 EL. It's only if they win the EL and finish in an EL place that it's 5 CL + 2 EL. The rules state that an EL spot is lost only if they win the EL and finish in an EL spot (so in effect an EL spot is converted to a CL spot).

 

In short, them winning the EL doesn't punish any team finishing in what would otherwise be a European spot (except the 4th placed team going from CL to EL if City also win the CL and finish outside the top 4).

 

Have a funny feeling it would be 5-2 but that's not based on anything concrete.

 

If what you're saying is true though, it leaves us needing a Liverpool EL win and that makes me feel dirty.

[davefoggy]

It sometimes happens that when a team is mathematically relegated that individual players become more relaxed, and can play with greater freedom and determination. The fear of relegation is past now. They have future careers and contracts to negotiate after all. So beware, Saints, of approaching this game as easy. It won't be.

 

I bet we lose at Villa. I can just see it. Christ, we couldn't even beat them at St Marys

[JRM]

I bet we lose at Villa. I can just see it. Christ, we couldn't even beat them at St Marys

 

Villa are in absolute disarray, the fans hate the owner and most of the players, the new board members have already resigned , the club is relegated and guaranteed to finish bottom, the players can't wait to get out of there , all of which points to a frustrating 0-0 draw.

 

Hope our fans going up enjoy a good old St George's day drink up regardless of the result.

[doddisalegend]

I bet we lose at Villa. I can just see it. Christ, we couldn't even beat them at St Marys

 

Southampton

 

22 Stekelenburg

2 Soares

6 Fonte

17 van Dijk

21 Bertrand

12 WanyamaSubstituted for Romeu at 63'minutes

16 Ward-Prowse Booked at 30mins

10 ManéSubstituted for Long at 83'minutes

8 Davis

11 TadicSubstituted for JuanmI at 63'minutes

19 Pellè

 

Substitutes

1Davis

4Clasie

7Long

14Romeu

15Martina

20Juanmi

26Caulker

 

was the saints team that day interesting to see how different the weekends team will/won't be

[St Lej]

Every little helps

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36083746

 

Bloody hell, from that picture you can actually see the outline of his flabby belly and man boobs. For a premier league footballer to be able to let himself get into that state is amazing in this day and age, to be honest. Says a lot about the management of the club too that he's only being disciplined now, due to specific acvtivities which have surfaced in the tabloids.

[Dark Munster]

Have a funny feeling it would be 5-2 but that's not based on anything concrete.

 

If what you're saying is true though, it leaves us needing a Liverpool EL win and that makes me feel dirty.

We don't need Liverpool to win the EL, because that won't affect the other EL places one way or the other.

 

On the other hand, we do want Utd to win the cup if we finish 7th and below them, so that should make us feel dirty enough!

[kwsaint]

Think that we will finish 8th, so it's all a bit academic

[Saint Charlie]

Think that we will finish 8th, so it's all a bit academic

If we don't win this we might possibly finish 9th.

[cellone]

If we don't win this we might possibly finish 9th.

 

Sod that way of thinking. We'll batter them.

[Pass the Dutchie]

this is a far inferior league so even 7th isn't as impressive

 

But is it really? The top teams may be underperforming, but that's partially because other teams are getting better. It's evening out. Looking at it that way, you could just as well say that 7th would be more impressive, in an overall stronger field.

[Batman]

But is it really? The top teams may be underperforming, but that's partially because other teams are getting better. It's evening out. Looking at it that way, you could just as well say that 7th would be more impressive, in an overall stronger field.

 

yes it is, the quality of this league is pretty low compared to recent years.

saints ourselves, have not had to be that good to be in the same position as 12 months ago

[eelpie]

I was working in Brum today, not far from Villa Park. It's a gloomy old sh*thole at the best of times, but the atmosphere today was so bad you could feel it. I witnessed two workmates have a blazing argument over who was having a filing cabinet FFS!

 

We really, really should win this game. But I'm mindful of when we went away to Derby after they had already been relegated (1991 perhaps?) and lost 6-2! So I'm taking nothing for granted.

 

Aston Villa 6 - 2 Saints

I can hear the outrage melting Saints Forum already!

[Pamplemousse]

Still not convinced there's a 5 CL and 3 EL version of this based on the wording from UEFA.

 

If we look at La Liga, they had 5 in the CL and 2 in the EL. If we finish 8th, we won't qualify for Europe.

[JRM]

It felt like we had to be consistent and keep grinding out results to even come 7th last season. But last year in reality we were higher for most the season slipping to 7th. This season it's mid table most the season and probably ending mid table. 7th or 10th I doubt there'll be many points between it. Likely to come down to the last couple of results rather than season long quality.

 

No i'm sorry you seem to be deliberately trying to play down this season's achievements by simply stating that everyone else has been poor, but we have still accomplished a decent position in the top flight despite having fewer financial resources than many teams beneath us. You say 7th - 10th will be close but if we win at Villa and Stoke lose at Man City at the weekend we'll be 7 points clear of them with 3 games to go, Chelsea still need to play Spurs and Leicester so will also struggle to make up a 7 point deficit on us, i think we'll quite comfortably be top 8 and I applaud Koeman for that in a season that has seen us win at Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge and draw at Emirates and Anfield, some significant highs and i don't think we'll be far off last years points total.

 

Obvious lows being performance in all of the cups (especially Midgetland (A) and Liverpool H) and some poor performances at Norwich (A), Bournemouth (A) Sunderland (H) , Villa (H)

[The9]

yes it is, the quality of this league is pretty low compared to recent years.

saints ourselves, have not had to be that good to be in the same position as 12 months ago

 

Depends which of these two diametrically opposing arguments you want to use to debunk your theory, but:

 

1) Last season we lost 5 games in a row at one point and only won 4 of our last 13, losing 7 of them, so we were not really that good last season either.

OR

2) Last season we were in the top 4 for most of the season, and won 11 of 12 games (inc Cups) at one point so claiming the standard of the league is low THIS year rather than last year is ridiculous when we've gone nowhere near that kind of run.

 

Personally I think the "we're in a slightly worse position whilst being slightly worse overall" argument captures the fact you're talking a load of arse quite nicely.

[Batman]

if it was not already, sat is a MUST WIN now

[Batman]

Depends which of these two diametrically opposing arguments you want to use to debunk your theory, but:

 

1) Last season we lost 5 games in a row at one point and only won 4 of our last 13, losing 7 of them, so we were not really that good last season either.

OR

2) Last season we were in the top 4 for most of the season, and won 11 of 12 games (inc Cups) at one point so claiming the standard of the league is low THIS year rather than last year is ridiculous when we've gone nowhere near that kind of run.

 

Personally I think the "we're in a slightly worse position whilst being slightly worse overall" argument captures the fact you're talking a load of arse quite nicely.

 

if you think we are at least as good as last season. then good for you.

[Griffo]

Be good to see a few St George's crosses in the away end Saturday what with it being St George's day. A few of us taking ours.

[The9]

Personally I think the "we're in a slightly worse position whilst being slightly worse overall" argument captures the fact you're talking a load of arse quite nicely.

 

if you think we are at least as good as last season. then good for you.

 

Only you can read "we're in a slightly worse position whilst being slightly worse overall" and think it means someone is saying "we are at least as good as last season".

[Batman]

Only you can read "we're in a slightly worse position whilst being slightly worse overall" and think it means someone is saying "we are at least as good as last season".

 

so, we are not as good as last season.

glad we agree

[trousers]

Koeman: "Charlie Austin still not fit for the weekend"

[SuperSAINT]

Koeman: "Charlie Austin still not fit for the weekend"

 

Anything else of note mentioned, trousers?

[saint lard]

Charlie Austin.....the new Augustin Delgado?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cellone]

Charlie Austin.....the new Augustin Delgado?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Don't be nasty. He's being rested for that game next season.

 

Sent from my E6853 using Tapatalk

[trousers]

Anything else of note mentioned, trousers?

 

Alas, no. Was the shortest live broadcast press conference in living memory. Most talk was about whether Saints could take the next step up and become a regular top 6 club, or whether we've reached our glass ceiling. The enlightening answer, of course, was "maybe". Good work journos. One of these days they'll talk more in depth about the forthcoming match at the pre-match press conference, you never know...!

[trousers]

[Batman]

Ron - Pre Villa game

 

 

We had to beat Everton.

Expected to win

The gap between saints and the teams above is now 5 points

2 points dropped at Everton

we have to win on sat

but the gap is 5 points and teams above are playing well

will be very tough to qualify for europe

we have to be realistic with the player and keep them focused

We play against a relegated side on sat

we have to be motivated and win the game

you never know what to expect when playing an already relegated side

they have to win back the support of the fans

we have to focused

we have to win the game

players have to maintain concentration

was a strange afternoon when we played them a year ago

that wont happen saturday

we made many mistakes when we faced them at home this season

shows why we are behind the teams above us

everton away was a bad result

too many points dropped by us this season

we have good games to play against teams who are fighting for something

we have to try everything to win them all

jose and victor are back and are OK

charlie austin not quite fit for this weekend

very pleased to see gardos back. played for 71 mins and can continue to get fit

he could be involved with the 1st team before the end of the season

 

 

 

-----------------

 

Guess ron is still not too happy how we failed to win at everton. Touched on it a few times. Also, mentioned more than a few times that we HAVE TO WIN on sat

[The9]

so, we are not as good as last season.

glad we agree

 

We do. We do still have a stronger squad, but the starting XI isn't as good. I don't think anyone thought it would be, with us losing Alderweireld and Schneiderlin.

 

Our main problem is that we sell players, some of whom have taken years to develop, and keep replacing them with players we want to develop. That usually takes a bit of time, and somewhere down the line there's a shortfall and it doesn't work. It was VERY obvious at the start of this season in the Newcastle and Everton matches that we had unplugged gaps in the team and we wasted some points working out how to deal with that (eg 9 at the back at Watford got us a point).

 

I can't help but think we expected more from Juanmi in terms of development, and we're probably happy with how Romeu, Ward-Prowse, Martina and Targett have come along - but few if any of them are guaranteed starters at the moment so we should probably focus on getting in starters who improve the first XI, especially if we lose more starters this summer (but with the new money I'm not sure why we wouldn't just up our deals).

Edited 21 April, 2016 by The9

[The9]

Also, mentioned more than a few times that we HAVE TO WIN on sat

 

We're already safe, could be worse.

 

Obviously if we want to maximise chances of Europe and not leave it up to Liverpool and Man City's cup exploits we need to win as many as possible, and with Spurs and City upcoming we have to win the 2 other games just to have an outside chance.

 

Personally I don't see us getting into the top 7 and I don't see 8th getting into Europe.

[Appy]

We're already safe, could be worse.

 

Obviously if we want to maximise chances of Europe and not leave it up to Liverpool and Man City's cup exploits we need to win as many as possible, and with Spurs and City upcoming we have to win the 2 other games just to have an outside chance.

 

Personally I don't see us getting into the top 7 and I don't see 8th getting into Europe.

 

8th won't get into Europe whatever happens.

[Pamplemousse]

We're wearing red and white tomorrow, according to the Premier League twitter account.

[angelman]

Every little helps

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36083746

 

And another: http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/663552/Aston-Villa-Jores-Okore-Premier-League-Eric-Black-Relegation-Championship-Gossip-News

[VectisSaint]

Lawro predicts 2-0 to us (fair enough) but thinks we are on course to follow last season's eighth-place finish with something very similar.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36091973

[ericb]

I'm playing it down because I know how good our squad and manager are. We've struggled to find a consistent team and tactics, didn't spend as wisely as we have previously in the summer, seen periods of really poor form from Mane, Wanyama and Pelle, and had a lot of changes in the defence.

 

You're allowed any opinion you like, I just find it very odd that anyone could view this season as anything other than a huge missed opportunity.

 

The future is more important. If we can hold on to most our squad and have Forster, Austin and Rodriguez fit all next season then we can do very well.

 

Can't disagree with that. It's been a frustrating season in many ways, we're about three players off being a good side and the European jaunt especially was a huge disappointment (thanks wanyama).

 

My biggest worry is that next season we don't have the Europa to entice players and the other sides will improve.

 

To the game itself, anything but a win will be a poor result. Villa are terrible, the atmosphere will be toxic and we are - to be honest - a lot better than them.

[Lighthouse]

I'm playing it down because I know how good our squad and manager are. We've struggled to find a consistent team and tactics, didn't spend as wisely as we have previously in the summer, seen periods of really poor form from Mane, Wanyama and Pelle, and had a lot of changes in the defence.

 

You're allowed any opinion you like, I just find it very odd that anyone could view this season as anything other than a huge missed opportunity.

 

The future is more important. If we can hold on to most our squad and have Forster, Austin and Rodriguez fit all next season then we can do very well.

 

I think it's been a little better than expected really. Having lost Clyne, Toby and Morgan, with Forster injured for half the season, there are many who thought we'd struggle. We missed Clyne and Forster at the start of the season but apart from that we've coped quite well. Supposing we beat Villa and Palace but lose to City and Spurs, we're only 3 points off last years total.

 

Overall I'd say we've had a pretty solid year. We can talk about the form of Mané and Wanyama but then you'd also have to consider the injuries and poor form of Carroll, Shaw, Hazard, Benteke, Ivanovic and a fair few others.

[nta786]

I'm playing it down because I know how good our squad and manager are. We've struggled to find a consistent team and tactics, didn't spend as wisely as we have previously in the summer, seen periods of really poor form from Mane, Wanyama and Pelle, and had a lot of changes in the defence.

 

You're allowed any opinion you like, I just find it very odd that anyone could view this season as anything other than a huge missed opportunity.

 

The future is more important. If we can hold on to most our squad and have Forster, Austin and Rodriguez fit all next season then we can do very well.

 

It's funny because if you swap Leicester and Chelsea around, it isn't a missed opportunity, and really the top 6 would've been the traditional top 6 anyway, and had that (swap) been the case, then only Spurs would be over achieving.

I think 95% would have taken 8th tbh, I certainly would have, and when you consider our overall expenditure/wage budget I think we are certainly over achieving with that regard.

So really, Leicester capitalising/getting flukey has undermined our performances. I think we have been reasonable, shame its been a very up and down season.

[angelman]

nta - agree with what you say and posted the same earlier this week on another thread. The top 6 has a depressing familiarity (presuming Liverpool win their game in hand and move above Wet Spam) about it save for Leicester/Chelsea, albeit the Leicester bit is pretty "big". Spurs - no one would really be surprised if they finished 3rd or 4th, so they are only a couple of places higher than what they might expect in a good season.

[Pamplemousse]

I hope everyone savours tomorrow afternoon. It's the last time we play on a Saturday until August

[dellboypete]

And could be our last time at villa park for some time