Saints 3-1 Newcastle - Reaction

[John Boy Saint]

Who was it who "jumped" in a bizarre fashion towards Townsend instead of trying to make the tackle? I thought it was JWP but comments on match thread suggested Clasie.

Clasie showed him inside from the wing, Bertrand "jumped" in bizarrely, sitting on the pitch in the process leaving the gap for Townsend to shoot......... Bit of a shame really as Ryan had kept Townsend on a bit of a short leash for most of the game up to that point.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Yes. This is certainly his time of year. As soon as the weather warms up, he hits top form. I wouldn't be surprised to see him star for Italy in the hot summer sun in France, while some of the English players, like Vardy and Kane, may struggle in those conditions.

 

Forget his midwinter slump. Pelle is worth every penny we pay him for all the goals he gets early and late in the season. Hopefully, Austin will fill in midseason next year.

 

 

This is spot on, the loons just can't bring themselves to admit they don't have a clue regarding him

[Pedro]

Yep, thought the same, maybe his slip early on made him a mere mortal like the rest of us:)

 

What was the 2 (looked like) security men marching over to the Kingsland to escort the officials off all about? Cant remember seeing it before.

 

Two stewards used to do it for years but half way through the season it was deemed to replace them for security guys. I suppose it is "just in case" and is planned for every game although weren't needed yesterday.

[david in sweden]

I watched my first Saints v. Newcastle fixture over 50 years ago.

 

These fixtures have always been entertaining and although we hadn't played them so regularly over the years, I always regarded Newcastle as worthy opponents and their fan base - even when they were in a lower division - has always been very loyal.

 

What I saw yesterday was a very poor side, which bore little resemblance to the good Newcastle teams they've had in the past.

Of course I was pleased for the 3 points, but the fact that we only scored 3 was perhaps a blessing in disguise for them.

With better finishing, we might have had 5 or 6 by HT, but they were a sorry sight to be sure.

 

Given a choice, I hope they can survive, they deserve at least one more chance, the other 3 are really not Prem. material

It would really cause an upset in the North East, if both Newcastle and Sunderland went down and Middlesboro' were promoted.

[mrfahaji]

Clasie showed him inside from the wing, Bertrand "jumped" in bizarrely, sitting on the pitch in the process leaving the gap for Townsend to shoot......... Bit of a shame really as Ryan had kept Townsend on a bit of a short leash for most of the game up to that point.

 

Just managed to find a clip - it's actually Ward-Prowse I'm referring to. I know Clasie and Bertrand could have done better but JWP does this utterly bizarre thing more akin to a star jump than anything else. I recall him doing something similar earlier in the season (to no avail again), presumably to put the player off or to get a block in rather than simply closing down the ball and making a tackle.

 

Just watching again, even though Bertrand jumps in, in fairness to him, he is making a last ditch attempt to get the block in. You could even argue that JWP ends up getting in Bertrand's way (though not sure).

[Saint Charlie]

JWP was all over the place in almost every element on Saturday.

 

If ever there is a player that does most of his talking off the pitch it is him unfortunately.

[The9]

Agreed. I was mystified why we swapped a harrying presence for a set piece specialist. Romeu a far more natural choice IMO.

 

I suspect it was because Long landed on his head/neck in the collision with Darlow in the first half and we didn't want to risk him when tired and with the game safe at 3-0 up, but at 2-0 we didn't want to risk losing his workrate. Agree Romeu could have come on instead to lock it down.

 

Wasn't particularly bothered by our second half performance given that we scored the third BEFORE we switched off when I was only concerned that we'd switch off when only 2 ahead.

 

As far as Townsend goes, when he's comfortably your best player you know you're bad. Funnily enough I thought Jaanmat looked like the only one who was bothered before his injury after slipping following Mane(?)'s awful through ball which ended up costing them the second goal. They could have scored with every 30 yard Townsend attempt they had and we'd have still found more goals than them - their full backs were both midfielders after 40 minutes and it showed.

Edited 10 April, 2016 by The9

[austsaint]

Just managed to find a clip - it's actually Ward-Prowse I'm referring to. I know Clasie and Bertrand could have done better but JWP does this utterly bizarre thing more akin to a star jump than anything else. I recall him doing something similar earlier in the season (to no avail again), presumably to put the player off or to get a block in rather than simply closing down the ball and making a tackle.

 

Just watching again, even though Bertrand jumps in, in fairness to him, he is making a last ditch attempt to get the block in. You could even argue that JWP ends up getting in Bertrand's way (though not sure).

 

Despite this you can expect JWP to spend time on the pitch against Everton. What I found baffling about his 35 minutes on Saturday was the big slab of time he spent in an advanced midfield role, almost as a second striker???

[Professor]

Appreciate we're all entitled to our opinions, but it is odd that people, whose football qualifications are somewhat limited are so confident t hat they are better placed to assess the ability of individual players than the manager and the professional coaches. The coaching staff, with their qualifications and experience see the players week in and week out, whereas most fans opinions are based on watching a 90 minute match every couple of weeks or seeing the team on TV or on-line. Maybe opinions that are critical of some of our international standard players should be less assertive and maybe toned down a little. On the other hand, if we didn't have a go at some of the squad I expect this forum would be somewhat duller.

[scotty]

Appreciate we're all entitled to our opinions, but it is odd that people, whose football qualifications are somewhat limited are so confident t hat they are better placed to assess the ability of individual players than the manager and the professional coaches. The coaching staff, with their qualifications and experience see the players week in and week out, whereas most fans opinions are based on watching a 90 minute match every couple of weeks or seeing the team on TV or on-line. Maybe opinions that are critical of some of our international standard players should be less assertive and maybe toned down a little. On the other hand, if we didn't have a go at some of the squad I expect this forum would be somewhat duller.

 

That's wide of the mark. Any of our posters would walk into the saints manager job, if only McDonald's and dynorod would release us from our contracts.

[Charlie Wayman]

Appreciate we're all entitled to our opinions, but it is odd that people, whose football qualifications are somewhat limited are so confident t hat they are better placed to assess the ability of individual players than the manager and the professional coaches. The coaching staff, with their qualifications and experience see the players week in and week out, whereas most fans opinions are based on watching a 90 minute match every couple of weeks or seeing the team on TV or on-line. Maybe opinions that are critical of some of our international standard players should be less assertive and maybe toned down a little. On the other hand, if we didn't have a go at some of the squad I expect this forum would be somewhat duller.

 

Far too academic, regular fans are surely qualified to judge what they see in front of them. It is not about how good you looked at Staplewood on Thursday in an us v them kickabout it's about how good you are on the pitch on Saturday against people who are not your friends and its all a bit nastier. Even coaches are not clairvoyant.

[Redslo]

Agreed. I was mystified why we swapped a harrying presence for a set piece specialist. Romeu a far more natural choice IMO.

 

I assumed it was because Long was coming back from an injury and could safely be taken off at that point.

[sadoldgit]

Appreciate we're all entitled to our opinions, but it is odd that people, whose football qualifications are somewhat limited are so confident t hat they are better placed to assess the ability of individual players than the manager and the professional coaches. The coaching staff, with their qualifications and experience see the players week in and week out, whereas most fans opinions are based on watching a 90 minute match every couple of weeks or seeing the team on TV or on-line. Maybe opinions that are critical of some of our international standard players should be less assertive and maybe toned down a little. On the other hand, if we didn't have a go at some of the squad I expect this forum would be somewhat duller.

 

What never fails to amaze me is how opinions on players and how they performed differ so much. Pelle for example gets shedloads of cr@p from some quarters and support from others. I have seen him slagged off even when he has been awarded MotM??

[ecuk268]

I assumed it was because Long was coming back from an injury and could safely be taken off at that point.

 

He was also throwing up in the centre circle so obviously not well.

[Donatello]

Despite this you can expect JWP to spend time on the pitch against Everton. What I found baffling about his 35 minutes on Saturday was the big slab of time he spent in an advanced midfield role, almost as a second striker???

 

Namely because Clasie's legs went after (~)65mins, so presumably Koeman wanted to flesh out the central midfield area (he started wide-right). There's clearly some logic in it.

[Batman]

What never fails to amaze me is how opinions on players and how they performed differ so much. Pelle for example gets shedloads of cr@p from some quarters and support from others. I have seen him slagged off even when he has been awarded MotM??

 

you just have to accept that some do not particularly rate him and feel we are even better without him in the side with Long in his place. Regardless of how pelle does

[saintwbu]

you just have to accept that some do not particularly rate him and feel we are even better without him in the side with Long in his place. Regardless of how pelle does

 

But they played alongside each other on Saturday and you still criticised him so what was the reason for that?

[ALWAYS_SFC]

But they played alongside each other on Saturday and you still criticised him so what was the reason for that?

 

Its the inability to admit being wrong..

[DRAGONZ_RULE]

But they played alongside each other on Saturday and you still criticised him so what was the reason for that?

The stat given by the commentators on the Australian broadcast of the game is that apparently Southampton have never lost when both Pelle and Long have started up top together.

 

I'm not sure whether they were referring to this season alone, or whether that includes last season too.

 

It seems that there is just something which 'works' when Pelle and Long are played up top together.

[Verbal Kint]

But they played alongside each other on Saturday and you still criticised him so what was the reason for that?

 

Pelle got 12 league goals last season and will likely get around the same again this year. A decent return but nothing special. His all round game is often very poor with his obsession with flicks and first time passes doing nothing but lose possession and invite more pressure onto the team. His body language is appalling and the constant whingeing at his teammates doesn’t help either.

 

I believe if Long had had the same opportunities as a centre forward as Pelle has had then he would have scored more goals AND his all round play as a striker is IMO superior to Pelle. His constant energy and his willingness to be an outlet ball is more beneficial to the team than Pelle’s first time flicks to nobody.

 

I think it’s clear Pelle will be sold this summer with Austin, Jay and Long being our main strikers (hopefully Mane stays as well) and so for that reason I’d rather we played without Pelle now and gave those players the game time, particularly as I hope we will be playing with 2 up front next season.

[Super_Uwe]

Another good result, since the Norwich game away I think we have more or less picked up an average of 2 points a game. I'd hoped that we would get near last season's total of 60 points, but we have given ourselves a fighting chance now to do that.

 

Great to see Long and Pelle get another goal each. Pelle's hit double figures in the league for the second season running, that isn't bad going at all (bearing in mind he's had a serious blip mid-way through both campaigns as well!).

[Super_Uwe]

Pelle got 12 league goals last season and will likely get around the same again this year. A decent return but nothing special. His all round game is often very poor with his obsession with flicks and first time passes doing nothing but lose possession and invite more pressure onto the team. His body language is appalling and the constant whingeing at his teammates doesn’t help either.

 

I believe if Long had had the same opportunities as a centre forward as Pelle has had then he would have scored more goals AND his all round play as a striker is IMO superior to Pelle. His constant energy and his willingness to be an outlet ball is more beneficial to the team than Pelle’s first time flicks to nobody.

 

I think it’s clear Pelle will be sold this summer with Austin, Jay and Long being our main strikers (hopefully Mane stays as well) and so for that reason I’d rather we played without Pelle now and gave those players the game time, particularly as I hope we will be playing with 2 up front next season.

 

You're entitled to your view, but I honestly feel we have got a fantastic strike force at the club, and Pelle is a big part of that. We have got all bases covered IMO; obviously there is a chance that one or maybe two of the forwards will leave in the summer, but other than that we really can't complain.

[ecuk268]

But they played alongside each other on Saturday and you still criticised him so what was the reason for that?

 

Because he made one goal and scored one on Saturday whereas against Liverpool he scored one and made the other two, so he was obviously not trying on Saturday (at least, that's how some would see it).

[shurlock]

Pelle got 12 league goals last season and will likely get around the same again this year. A decent return but nothing special. His all round game is often very poor with his obsession with flicks and first time passes doing nothing but lose possession and invite more pressure onto the team. His body language is appalling and the constant whingeing at his teammates doesn’t help either.

 

I believe if Long had had the same opportunities as a centre forward as Pelle has had then he would have scored more goals AND his all round play as a striker is IMO superior to Pelle. His constant energy and his willingness to be an outlet ball is more beneficial to the team than Pelle’s first time flicks to nobody.

 

I think it’s clear Pelle will be sold this summer with Austin, Jay and Long being our main strikers (hopefully Mane stays as well) and so for that reason I’d rather we played without Pelle now and gave those players the game time, particularly as I hope we will be playing with 2 up front next season.

 

We don't retain the ball as well when only Long plays - not holding Long responsible, more its a reflection of our ball retention in midfield. With Pelle, at least, we have a more reliable outball, notwithstanding the careless flicks. Long is excellent at attacking the ball in the air, but doesn't hold it up as well.

 

We also swap one form of predictability for another with Long: we hit too many hopeful balls down the channels to chase. For every result like Arsenal (though it was hardly vintage football), there's been a performance like Bournemouth when Long leads the line.

 

They're a decent partnership, even if RK has sometimes played Long out of position on the wing.

 

Frankly until Austin shows he can do what Pelle does, I wouldn't let Pelle go anywhere.

Edited 11 April, 2016 by shurlock

[Whitey Grandad]

I assumed it was because Long was coming back from an injury and could safely be taken off at that point.

 

My daughter took my seats. She said that Long had been sick on the pitch. Or so her neighbour had said.

[Give it to Ron]

Despite this you can expect JWP to spend time on the pitch against Everton. What I found baffling about his 35 minutes on Saturday was the big slab of time he spent in an advanced midfield role, almost as a second striker???

 

So I sort of understood the substitution because up until that point there was an acre of space that Newcastle were using in front of Martina. JWP went into that space for about ten minutes and we then looked better. However then Mane moved there and JWP went wandering and we lost all pace up front - Mane was trying but was too deep to be effective IMO.

Once Romeu came on we looked far better - moved the ball quicker and more positive forward passes and he loves a tackle.

I thought Clasie did well in first half with some very good reading and interceptions - he lost a few marks for some over elaborate through balls that were easily cut out though - didnt see much from him second half.

[Redslo]

He was also throwing up in the centre circle so obviously not well.

 

I was unable to observe that on American TV. Lucky me.

[kwsaint]

Anyone know why there is no True Geordie vid on YouTube. Was looking forward to that one.

[JakkoUK]

Anyone know why there is no True Geordie vid on YouTube. Was looking forward to that one.

 

Probably gave up, their performance wasn't even worth getting angry over. Probably lost for words, I know I would be.

[Redslo]

Probably gave up, their performance wasn't even worth getting angry over. Probably lost for words, I know I would be.

 

I have been feeling sad for him and having trouble watching the videos through to the end. It was one thing to seem him get furious over a loss when they were a little too frequent. It is completely different to watch him as his club falls apart.

 

I understand (from the pre-game show on NBCSN) that their highly placed players do not have contracts with clauses that drop salaries following relegation. This could create severe Financial Fair play problems for them if they do not come right back up. I actually discussed the consequences to the clubs that would be relegated this year in a blog post from November 2014. The implications of these rules for Newcastle are interesting and would be well worth a blog article if I were blogging about Newcastle.

 

http://redsloscf.blogspot.com/2014/11/what-happens-if-southampton-is.html

Edited 11 April, 2016 by Redslo

[captainchris]

Appreciate we're all entitled to our opinions, but it is odd that people, whose football qualifications are somewhat limited are so confident t hat they are better placed to assess the ability of individual players than the manager and the professional coaches. The coaching staff, with their qualifications and experience see the players week in and week out, whereas most fans opinions are based on watching a 90 minute match every couple of weeks or seeing the team on TV or on-line. Maybe opinions that are critical of some of our international standard players should be less assertive and maybe toned down a little. On the other hand, if we didn't have a go at some of the squad I expect this forum would be somewhat duller.

 

Football is not brain surgery so no use pretending it is....

It's a relatively simple game and 'qualifications' are really not an indication of an ability to work out how to win any given game...

'Training' is also just that at the end of the day. It's whether you can perform in a match situation that really counts. It is evident that some managers including ours do pick a team based on training rather than personal performances in a match. Not always to the best effect....

If qualifications were that important to being a good manager there would be no bad ones and there certainly are some pretty poor qualified managers around....

[DRAGONZ_RULE]

Pelle got 12 league goals last season and will likely get around the same again this year. A decent return but nothing special. His all round game is often very poor with his obsession with flicks and first time passes doing nothing but lose possession and invite more pressure onto the team. His body language is appalling and the constant whingeing at his teammates doesn’t help either.

 

I believe if Long had had the same opportunities as a centre forward as Pelle has had then he would have scored more goals AND his all round play as a striker is IMO superior to Pelle. His constant energy and his willingness to be an outlet ball is more beneficial to the team than Pelle’s first time flicks to nobody.

Excluding penalty goals scored by players, Graziano Pelle is 10th on the list of leading scorers in the EPL this season despite missing essentially 8 weeks due to injury (6 games not in squad, 2 games in the same period off the bench for

 

That output is surely strong, particularly given you guys only had to spend for $8m on him (apologies, down under we don't get Pounds on our keyboard so Dollars will have to do!).

 

Some other strikers with transfer fees of just as much or even more but fewer goals include:

- Wilfried Bony - $30m, 4 goals

- Joselu - $8m, 4 goals

- Connor Wickham - $9m, 5 goals

- Jordan Ayew - $8.5m, 5 goals + 1 pen

- Christian Benteke - $32.5m, 6 goals + 1 pen

- Aleksandar Mitrovic - $12m, 6 goals + 2 pens

- Salomon Rondon - $12m, 7 goals

- Andy Caroll - $15.5m + $30m in wasted wages, 7 goals

 

And even Shane Long himself, who cost $12m for a return of 8 goals this season.

 

The return on investment with Pelle has surely exceeded expectations significantly - I mean how can you sign a 29 year old striker for $8m and expect 20 goals a season, what Jamie Vardy is doing this season is only seen once in a lifetime which is why Leicester's story is indeed a once in a lifetime story.

[DRAGONZ_RULE]

To expand on my post above, here is something you might find interesting - a comparison of Pelle and Long's statistical performance this season...

 

 

Whilst $8m Pelle has been "rubbish" and $12m Long is seen as a candidate for Player of the Season, Pelle has actually outperformed Long in virtually every single statistical metric on a per 90 minute basis (which is the fairest comparison).

 

Per 90 minutes, Pelle scores more goals, has more shots, misses fewer 'big' chances (defined by Opta Stats), creates more 'big' chances, gets more assists, has the same number of assisted shots (key passes), makes more successful passes, has drawn more penalties, wins more tackles, wins more headers and loses fewer headers than Long. In fact, the only metric in the above table where Long is outperforming Pelle is intercepts per 90 mins.

 

It's amazing how perception and reality can be so far apart, isn't it?

 

I'm just a neutral fan watching games on television from overseas, so I'm not at the ground and not emotionally invested in your team so I don't go through the same frustrations and joys that you guys do as fans watching games in the flesh ... however I think the above shows that the perception created by Pelle (who doesn't press and harass and look 'busy') versus Long (who does all of those things) has led to a massive distortion in your fans' minds about how poor Pelle is and how great Long is.

 

One thing I do think the above may highlight, however, is why Pelle is still such a key player in Koeman's mind.

 

 

Anyway, the overarching point - and it's one I made earlier in the thread - is that Pelle and Long shouldn't be seen as fighting for a position, given that Southampton haven't actually lost a single game when they have started together. They are complimentary players and should be seen as such, and together they make your team stronger!

[whelk]

Key stats missing are hands to face gesticulating and dancing feet flicks that lose possession.

 

Anyway you mention football being a basic game and dismiss training yet want to hold up stats, as so many (geeks) ido these days, as evidence - We know what we see.

Stats tell me Wanyama passes the ball accurately - he doesn't.

I am not on Pelle's back though and annoys me so many seem to be but don't rely on stats to see when someone is in and out of form.

[Saint Charlie]

As others have said, Pelle surrounded by runners is an excellent hold up striker who often finishes well.

 

Pelle as an isolated frontman does what you would expect from a player with his attributes.

 

Its how you use him that is the key. He was excellent on Sat because we played to his strengths and he was able to help Long and Mane.

[doddisalegend]

As others have said, Pelle surrounded by runners is an excellent hold up striker who often finishes well.

 

Pelle as an isolated frontman does what you would expect from a player with his attributes.

 

Its how you use him that is the key. He was excellent on Sat because we played to his strengths and he was able to help Long and Mane.

 

 

TBF I could have looked excellent against Newcastle's defence on Saturday. I like Pelle in general but he is very much a confidence player who seems to let his head drop very easily when things don't go his way.

[DuncanRG]

To expand on my post above, here is something you might find interesting - a comparison of Pelle and Long's statistical performance this season...

 

 

Whilst $8m Pelle has been "rubbish" and $12m Long is seen as a candidate for Player of the Season, Pelle has actually outperformed Long in virtually every single statistical metric on a per 90 minute basis (which is the fairest comparison).

 

Per 90 minutes, Pelle scores more goals, has more shots, misses fewer 'big' chances (defined by Opta Stats), creates more 'big' chances, gets more assists, has the same number of assisted shots (key passes), makes more successful passes, has drawn more penalties, wins more tackles, wins more headers and loses fewer headers than Long. In fact, the only metric in the above table where Long is outperforming Pelle is intercepts per 90 mins.

 

It's amazing how perception and reality can be so far apart, isn't it?

 

I'm just a neutral fan watching games on television from overseas, so I'm not at the ground and not emotionally invested in your team so I don't go through the same frustrations and joys that you guys do as fans watching games in the flesh ... however I think the above shows that the perception created by Pelle (who doesn't press and harass and look 'busy') versus Long (who does all of those things) has led to a massive distortion in your fans' minds about how poor Pelle is and how great Long is.

 

One thing I do think the above may highlight, however, is why Pelle is still such a key player in Koeman's mind.

 

 

Anyway, the overarching point - and it's one I made earlier in the thread - is that Pelle and Long shouldn't be seen as fighting for a position, given that Southampton haven't actually lost a single game when they have started together. They are complimentary players and should be seen as such, and together they make your team stronger!

 

Thanks for this important dose of reality. The difference really is 'running around a lot'. All football fans love runners who chase things down, and most football fans get on the back of big, slower strikers when they're not scoring regularly. That's life.

 

Stats tell me Wanyama passes the ball accurately - he doesn't.

 

Stastistics are facts, mate. You might argue that he misses important passes, but you can't argue that his passing's inaccurate any more than you can argue Jamie Vardy's not scored 21 goals.

 

Stats are all about validity - does the number tell us what we want to find out? Passing accuracy doesn't tell us if Wanyama is a good player but it does tell us if he passes accurately.

 

A lot of fans don't know what they see at all.

Edited 12 April, 2016 by DuncanRG

[Batman]

Thanks for this important dose of reality. The difference really is 'running around a lot'. All football fans love runners who chase things down, and most football fans get on the back of big, slower strikers when they're not scoring regularly. That's life.

 

 

 

Stastistics are facts, mate. You might argue that he misses important passes, but you can't argue that his passing's inaccurate any more than you can argue Jamie Vardy's not scored 21 goals.

 

Stats are all about validity - does the number tell us what we want to find out? Passing accuracy doesn't tell us if Wanyama is a good player but it does tell us if he passes accurately.

 

A lot of fans don't know what they see at all.

 

stats make out cedric is one of the better/best right backs in the league, do they not?

Wasn't there some stats posted a little while ago, showing Yoshida being one of, if not the worst CB in the league?

yet, so many defend him on here for being 'good enough' as 3rd choice for a team with European ambitions.

 

what does reality tell us?

Edited 12 April, 2016 by Batman

[DuncanRG]

stats make out cedric is one of the better/best right backs in the league, do they not?

Wasn't there some stats posted a little while ago, showing Yoshida being one of, if not the worst CB in the league?

yet, so many defend him on here for being 'good enough' as 3rd choice for a team with European ambitions.

 

what does reality tell us?

 

Stats don't tell us that - there's no statistic which fully measures how good a player is. If Cedric's the best at certain things (I don't know what, I haven't seen them) then yes, he is best at those things. Again, validity is key. The defender that makes the most tackles isn't necessarily the best defender, but the most accurate passer is the most accurate passer.

 

The Long and Pelle figures don't prove that Pelle is a better player, they just show it's utter nonsense to suggest he's a donkey and Long's a hero.

 

Numbers have limitations which must be considered, but valid and reliable numbers cannot be denied.

Edited 12 April, 2016 by DuncanRG

[doddisalegend]

stats make out cedric is one of the better/best right backs in the league, do they not?

Wasn't there some stats posted a little while ago, showing Yoshida being one of, if not the worst CB in the league?

yet, so many defend him on here for being 'good enough' as 3rd choice for a team with European ambitions.

 

what does reality tell us?

 

 

No the stat was that Cedric had made the most successful tackles in the league (at the time they were published) which is clearly not the same as the best RB in the league though arguably being good at tackling it is a useful ability for a full back.

[angelman]

I didn't think it was a foul. It was a strong challenge but he got the ball first, and it looked worse because the pace Long was moving at sent him flying with momentum.

 

Like everyone else has said, a good result without anyone shining particularly. Personally though I think winning a game without getting out of second gear at this stage of the season shows good game management. Why exert yourself when it's obvious the other team are going to offer nothing?

 

I also love how Pellé celebrates every goal like a last minute cup winner. Hero.

 

 

 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/7062604/Southampton-3-Newcastle-1-Hapless-Toon-surrender-as-Rafa-Benitez-continues-search-for-his-first-win.html

 

The Sun's highlights show at 1 min 8 seconds that it was a clear foul and Darlow could well have been sent off. Maybe should have been sent off. Poor decision to give just a throw in.

[Webby]

Stastistics are facts, mate. You might argue that he misses important passes, but you can't argue that his passing's inaccurate any more than you can argue Jamie Vardy's not scored 21 goals.

 

Stats are all about validity - does the number tell us what we want to find out? Passing accuracy doesn't tell us if Wanyama is a good player but it does tell us if he passes accurately.

 

A lot of fans don't know what they see at all.

 

What passing stats don't tell us is the distance of the pass, or whether it was a pass under pressure. Most of Wanyama's passes are 5-10 yards. Any more than that and he struggles imo.

[vin]

What passing stats don't tell us is the distance of the pass, or whether it was a pass under pressure. Most of Wanyama's passes are 5-10 yards. Any more than that and he struggles imo.

 

Agree with this entirely. This (very long) video discusses why statistics can give a false impression of a player when used in isolation:

 

https://vimeo.com/127160940

[Saints foreva]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/7062604/Southampton-3-Newcastle-1-Hapless-Toon-surrender-as-Rafa-Benitez-continues-search-for-his-first-win.html

 

The Sun's highlights show at 1 min 8 seconds that it was a clear foul and Darlow could well have been sent off. Maybe should have been sent off. Poor decision to give just a throw in.

 

Tell you what I think that's a penalty on Wanyama for that over hit Clasie cross. He's running in at the back post, Shelvey has his arms around him with his back towards the play, no interest in the ball.

[The9]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/7062604/Southampton-3-Newcastle-1-Hapless-Toon-surrender-as-Rafa-Benitez-continues-search-for-his-first-win.html

 

The Sun's highlights show at 1 min 8 seconds that it was a clear foul and Darlow could well have been sent off. Maybe should have been sent off. Poor decision to give just a throw in.

 

I just had "careless, reckless or dangerous" going on in my head whilst the ref pointed for the throw. It was at least two of them and should have been at least a yellow (possibly a red for DOGSO if Long got to the ball first) and was definitely a foul, whether he got the ball or not.

[The9]

Tell you what I think that's a penalty on Wanyama for that over hit Clasie cross. He's running in at the back post, Shelvey has his arms around him with his back towards the play, no interest in the ball.

 

Plenty of shouts for that at the time too, especially from Wanyama.

[St_Tel49]

Appreciate we're all entitled to our opinions, but it is odd that people, whose football qualifications are somewhat limited are so confident t hat they are better placed to assess the ability of individual players than the manager and the professional coaches. The coaching staff, with their qualifications and experience see the players week in and week out, whereas most fans opinions are based on watching a 90 minute match every couple of weeks or seeing the team on TV or on-line. Maybe opinions that are critical of some of our international standard players should be less assertive and maybe toned down a little. On the other hand, if we didn't have a go at some of the squad I expect this forum would be somewhat duller.

 

This, this and this again.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

stats make out cedric is one of the better/best right backs in the league, do they not?

Wasn't there some stats posted a little while ago, showing Yoshida being one of, if not the worst CB in the league?

yet, so many defend him on here for being 'good enough' as 3rd choice for a team with European ambitions.

 

what does reality tell us?

 

It tells us the Pelle is far better than you claim, watch him without your pre judgement glasses on for a change

[Micky]

Anyone know why there is no True Geordie vid on YouTube. Was looking forward to that one.

 

Probably gave up, their performance wasn't even worth getting angry over. Probably lost for words, I know I would be.

 

Yes and No. His latest.....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00Z49XWqv_I

[Donatello]

As others have said, Pelle surrounded by runners is an excellent hold up striker who often finishes well.

 

Pelle as an isolated frontman does what you would expect from a player with his attributes.

 

Its how you use him that is the key. He was excellent on Sat because we played to his strengths and he was able to help Long and Mane.

 

This is probably the long and short of it. Ultimately, none of our strikers are top notch, and so when played on their own they can become marginalised. So playing a front two is seemingly the way we should be heading (which sounds odd these days). However, Long is certainly the more important component in our front two (imo). What seems to be being dismissed as "running around a lot" in a few posts, is actually conducive to being able to play a front two. If you're sacrificing a midfield player in order to play an extra striker, then defending (in the form of pressing) from the front seems like a must to me. So, with that being said, Long should always form the basis of our front two, whether that be with Pelle/Austin/Mane. Long and Pelle works, Pelle and Austin wouldn't (again, imo).

 

My main criticism of Pelle would be his constant bemoaning of team mates. Does my swede in. If you're going to whine and b*itch, at least be the best player on the pitch (and even that's a tenuous excuse). Oh, and the flicks...but as mentioned previously (I forget which thread...the Gaston thread, I think), I've seen a reduction in this aspect of his game in recent weeks.