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Europa League qualification?

Monk

By Monk,
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st alex

st alex

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Posted
Sky Sports commentator said today 8th could qualify just before Mane 2nd goal. Presume he's wrong?

 

I think it's possible but unlikely. Something like if Man City win the Champions League (and finish outside the top 4) then they'll qualify for next season's champions league as well as the top 4. Then Man Utd to join Man City by winning a domestic cup would mean 2 extra places in the league, so 5 champions league places and 3 europa league?

 

Or it could be something to do with the possibility of Liverpool winning the europa league, not sure of the exact rules for qualification.

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

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I think it's possible but unlikely. Something like if Man City win the Champions League (and finish outside the top 4) then they'll qualify for next season's champions league as well as the top 4. Then Man Utd to join Man City by winning a domestic cup would mean 2 extra places in the league, so 5 champions league places and 3 europa league?

 

Or it could be something to do with the possibility of Liverpool winning the europa league, not sure of the exact rules for qualification.

If City win CL and finish 5th then indeed there would be 5 CL entrants, but only 2 EL (City's EL gets converted to CL). Similarly if Liverpool win EL and finish in an EL spot.

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

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If Utd win the FA cup we could get this final table and qualifications:

 

Leicester - CL

Spurs - CL

Arsenal - CL

Man Utd - CL

Man City - EL

West Ham - EL

Saints - EL

Liverpool - Nothing

 

If Liverpool win EL then this changes to:

 

Leicester - CL

Spurs - CL

Arsenal - CL

Man Utd - CL

Man City - EL

West Ham - EL

Saints - EL

Liverpool - CL

 

If City win CL then it changes to:

 

Leicester - CL

Spurs - CL

Arsenal - CL

Man Utd - CL

Man City - CL

West Ham - EL

Saints - EL

Liverpool - Nothing

 

But if Liverpool win EL and City win CL then I think it changes to (hope I'm wrong):

 

Leicester - CL

Spurs - CL

Arsenal - CL

Man Utd - EL

Man City - CL

West Ham - EL

Saints - Nothing :(

Liverpool - CL

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DuncanRG

DuncanRG

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If City win CL and finish 5th then indeed there would be 5 CL entrants

 

How does that square with Chelsea finishing sixth, winning it a few years ago and taking the qualification spot away from Spurs, who finished fourth?

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Shroppie

Shroppie

Posted
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How does that square with Chelsea winning it a few years ago and taking the qualification spot away from Spurs, who finished fourth?

The rules have changed. An extra place is now given, but there is a limit of 5 per country. That means the CL place for 4th is only lost if Man City finish outside top 4 and win CL and Liverpool win EL.

 

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stevegrant

stevegrant

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How does that square with Chelsea finishing sixth, winning it a few years ago and taking the qualification spot away from Spurs, who finished fourth?

The rules have changed since then. A country can have a maximum of 5 teams in the Champions League now, but only 4 can qualify via the league.

 

If the current rules were in place back then, Spurs would have still qualified for the playoff round, with Chelsea going into the group stage as a top seed.

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Shroppie

Shroppie

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OK. To get shot down in flames, I think this is it.

 

Top 4 definitely in CL, 4th have to qualify.

 

If Liverpool win EL, irrespective of league position, they're in CL qualifying round.

 

5th is EL group stage unless 5th is Liverpool as above, then 6th would get EL group stage.

 

Man City as Cap1 winners go to EL qualifying unless they finish 5th or better, then CL or EL group, in which case 6th gets EL qualifying.

 

Winners of FA Cup get EL group stage unless it's MU and they finish 5th or better. Then the EL group place goes to 6th and the place in lieu of Cap1 goes to 7th.

 

But if Liverpool win EL and finish 5th, 6th or 7th, I think places may get bumped down again with a possibility of EL qualifying for 8th, but I've also read things questioning that.

 

So, guessing that ManC, ManU and WHam finish 4, 5, 6 and ManU win FA Cup we need to beat Liverpool to 7th. Or hope they win EL and see what the rules actually are.

 

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Nordic Saint

Nordic Saint

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If we win our last 2 games, we'll finish 6th or 7th. Even a draw and a win might be enough for that. The 7 points dropped to Newcastle, Everton and Watford in our first 3 games really cost us. If Forster and Bertrand hadn't missed so many games through injury, we'd probably be competing for 4th place now. We're doing very well. Let's just continue where we left off next season. There's a lot to look forward to.

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The9

The9

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So as it stands, we need to finish above either West Ham or Liverpool. Even though we can catch and finish above Man U, it doesn't do us much good, because they can leapfrog us with a Cup Final win. Worst case scenario everyone except Man U wins all their remaining games and Man U lose to Bournemouth then we'd be 7th and unable to get into Europe at all. :o

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Saint Charlie

Saint Charlie

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I posted that comment the day they were playing Villarreal. I'm still not sure if it will benefit us if they win the Uefa Cup but I'm a big Chelsea fan for tonight!

I don't think it matters if they do win the EL.

 

We just need to finish 6th, or 7th and hope United win the FA Cup.

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Chris27687

Chris27687

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if Liverpool finish 7th and win the Europa League and United Win the FA cup then the last Europa league spot goes back to the league and 7th or 8th gets it (depending on where Liverpool finish). There's 1 spot for the league and 1 for each cup (winner) and Champions League for the Europa League winner.

 

There's lots of ways for us to qualify - having to rely on United to win a game would be irritating tho - i'm more confident of Bournemouth doing them at Old Trafford than them beating palace.

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Redslo

Redslo

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Posted
if Liverpool finish 7th and win the Europa League and United Win the FA cup then the last Europa league spot goes back to the league and 7th or 8th gets it (depending on where Liverpool finish). There's 1 spot for the league and 1 for each cup (winner) and Champions League for the Europa League winner.

 

There's lots of ways for us to qualify - having to rely on United to win a game would be irritating tho - i'm more confident of Bournemouth doing them at Old Trafford than them beating palace.

 

As has been made clear, if Liverpool finish 7th we can only qualify for Europe if we finish 6th or 5th. There maybe be lots of ways for us to qualify for Europe but after Tuesday game they are fairly unlikely unless Liverpool loses today.

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The9

The9

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I posted that comment the day they were playing Villarreal. I'm still not sure if it will benefit us if they win the Uefa Cup but I'm a big Chelsea fan for tonight!

 

Europa League result has no bearing at all on Saints getting into Europe, the only EL place Liverpool can lose by winning the Europa League Final is their own.

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The9

The9

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In other words.....

 

We have to finish at least 7th to get european football...

 

Therefore, come on Bournemouth, Stoke and Chelsea!!

 

If we come 7th and behind West Ham and Liverpool we won't qualify for Europe because that would see Man U 8th and the winner of the FA Cup (either way) getting directly into the EL as they won't have qualified via the League. Liverpool have to win tonight for that to be possible.

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The9

The9

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My understanding of the rules now is that 8th will not get Europa league.

 

So we are fortunate that we will beat palace and west ham will not win away at stoke!

 

The only way the team coming 8th will be in the EL is if Man U lose to Bournemouth, Liverpool win twice, Saints win, West Ham win and Man U win the FA Cup - and even then they won't have qualified due to coming 8th.

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The9

The9

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if Liverpool finish 7th and win the Europa League and United Win the FA cup then the last Europa league spot goes back to the league and 7th or 8th gets it (depending on where Liverpool finish). There's 1 spot for the league and 1 for each cup (winner) and Champions League for the Europa League winner.

 

There's lots of ways for us to qualify - having to rely on United to win a game would be irritating tho - i'm more confident of Bournemouth doing them at Old Trafford than them beating palace.

 

You just said Liverpool won the EL and came 7th, and then by your logic 8th would get the "last Europa spot". But Liverpool winning the EL converts their EL spot into a CL spot and the EL spot doesn't get passed on to anyone else. So only 5th and 6th get an EL spot and Liverpool in 7th get a CL one (along with the top 4), and that's it.

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The9

The9

Posted
Posted (edited)
They don't have an EL place to lose at the moment.

 

Because we're above them. And if we were below them they would have, and they can't pass it onto anyone else by winning the EL. And that's kinda the point.

Edited by The9
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The9

The9

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I believe its like this:

 

We get into the EL if:

 

We finish 5th

We finish 6th and either Manu win the FA Cup or Liverpool don't win the EL;

We finish 7th and Manu win the FA Cup and Liverpool don't win the EL

 

Liverpool's EL Final result is irrelevant, they can only stop us qualifying by finishing above us in the League.

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
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There's still a fair few people getting confused about all this. It's this:

 

5th - automatic group entry into EL (long shot)

6th - EL - automatic group entry if Man Utd finish in a European spot and beat palace, otherwise 6th is a third qualifier position

7th - EL third qualifier only if Man Utd finish in European positions and win the FA Cup final. (So, exactly the same scenario as last season where we wanted an Arsenal win)

 

Liverpool winning the EL makes no difference. We just need to win, see where it takes us. If it's 7th, root for Utd against Palace.

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marc_saint

marc_saint

Posted
Posted
There's a fair greater chance after tonight's result and yet saints fans seem to think liverpools goal is the end of world.

Can't see them putting out a strong team on Sunday vs West Brom anyway. They have the Europa League Final just the days later.

 

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

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I'd say odds are back in our favour after tonight wouldn't you mate?

 

As long as we win, then I think we'll be alright. I don't fancy WHU to win if i'm honest, and we're got our noses ahead of Liverpool anyway. Odds on, for sure.

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Roger

Roger

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Posted

Before this week I thought man Utd would get draw at West Ham and Chelsea would lose.

-Liverpool could have made sure they are in Europa if they don't win next week.

-Chelsea not a lot to play for and manager won't be there next season.

Have to say hazard was amazing so well done Chelsea. You could turn it into a positive for us. We know now what we have to do. Teams playing for a draw is a recipe for disaster on many occasions.

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raynesparksaint

raynesparksaint

Posted
Posted
There's a fair greater chance after tonight's result and yet saints fans seem to think liverpools goal is the end of world.

 

The last minute goal is still annoying, as had Liverpool lost tonight it would have meant a draw for us against Palace would've been enough to stay above them (barring a huge win for them against WBA)

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mrfahaji

mrfahaji

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Everyone seems quite optimistic that West Ham won't beat Stoke. Don't get me wrong, it's far from impossible, but Stoke have been pretty poor of late, have been surprisingly underwhelming at home this season and don't have anything to play for. West Ham, on the other hand, have been pretty good for most of the season, seem equally adept away from home as they are at Upton Park, and have a chance to secure European football at their new stadium.

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The9

The9

Posted
Posted
The last minute goal is still annoying, as had Liverpool lost tonight it would have meant a draw for us against Palace would've been enough to stay above them (barring a huge win for them against WBA)

 

That is basically the only difference it makes though, almost every other permutation is unaffected by it. Plus we shouldn't be looking at a home draw against Palace as a viable option for European qualification.

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nta786

nta786

Posted
Posted

Sorry guys, one last time, what happens IF Liverpool finish 8th and win Europa League, and we finish 7th + Man U win FA Cup?

My guess is we don't qualify because otherwise there would be 8 teams from England in Europe as shown below:

 

1) Leicester- CL

2) Spurs- CL

3) Arsenal- CL

4) Man City- CL Play-Off

5) Manchester United- Europa League Group Stage

6) WHU- Europa League Group Stage

7) Saints- Europa League Third Round Qualifying OR NOTHING?

8: Liverpool- CL because they won EL 2015/16

 

Does this mean we lose our spot?

Thanks in advance.

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scorchio21

scorchio21

Posted
Posted
If we win Sunday then we get 3 shots at a Europa place:

 

Bournemouth win

West Ham draw/lose

United win the cup

 

We'd be very unlucky if none of those happened.

Gotta be odds on now.

 

This seems to me to be the most concise way of putting it, and looks accurate.

 

Except I don't know the answer to the question above about whether 8 English teams can be in Europe...

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted
Sorry guys, one last time, what happens IF Liverpool finish 8th and win Europa League, and we finish 7th + Man U win FA Cup?

My guess is we don't qualify because otherwise there would be 8 teams from England in Europe as shown below:

 

1) Leicester- CL

2) Spurs- CL

3) Arsenal- CL

4) Man City- CL Play-Off

5) Manchester United- Europa League Group Stage

6) WHU- Europa League Group Stage

7) Saints- Europa League Third Round Qualifying OR NOTHING?

8: Liverpool- CL because they won EL 2015/16

 

Does this mean we lose our spot?

Thanks in advance.

Ok, as long as you promise it's for the last time. Liverpool finishing 8th and winning EL means an extra CL spot (for them), and no loss of EL for others (otherwise someone else would get punished). So 5 CL + 3 EL total. Liverpool winning EL and finishing in an EL spot (e.g. 6th) means their EL simply gets converted to CL. So 5 CL + 2 EL total. Again no one else gets punished (or rewarded).

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Eire Saint

Eire Saint

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Posted
This seems to me to be the most concise way of putting it, and looks accurate.

 

Except I don't know the answer to the question above about whether 8 English teams can be in Europe...

 

If Liverpool win the Europa final and have qualified for the Europa for next year already, that place gets converted to a Champions League spot and 7 teams qualify for Europe. (5 CL & 2 EL)

 

If they win the Europa and haven't qualified for Europa for next season then they will get a Champions League place and none of the teams who have qualified for Europe already will lose their places. So 8 teams will be there next season (5 CL & 3 EL)

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