Lawrie McMenemy's book .....

[david in sweden]

....is likely to raise a few older voices with comments on his time of management (1973-1985).

 

That means if you're under 40 ..it won't mean much to you, so don't feel that you must read further...

 

Echo quotes a few incidents where Lawrie is " a bit outspoken " about some players/incidents during his time.

 

Both Lawrie and Terry Paine DAJFU .....in their own way, and " if everyone didn't get along with everyone else ".......then that's part of life.

 

In over 50 years in a variety of workplaces, I've never knew one where everyone was buddy, buddy with everyone else, but most of them did their own jobs well.

 

I'm steering clear of comment /criticism, I admire both men for their (differing) contributions to the club.

 

END OF .......

[ecuk268]

A few excerpts on the Echo website.

 

Lawrie's signing copies at St Marys on Saturday morning.

[L1Minus10]

It's gonna be his take on things which you would expect. I'm sure Terry Paine's verdict would differ. Fact is that it's a book by a very important manager for us. He was in charge for my first 10 years as a Saints fan so that's good enough for me.

[hasper57saint]

It's gonna be his take on things which you would expect. I'm sure Terry Paine's verdict would differ. Fact is that it's a book by a very important manager for us. He was in charge for my first 10 years as a Saints fan so that's good enough for me.

Had lunch with Lawrie and Matt recently and he said of his forthcoming book "There'll be a few surprises but that's life" Still admire him after all these years.

[70's Mike]

whether you liked lawrie mac or not, his ambition helped to propel the club to where we are now

[Toadhall Saint]

whether you liked lawrie mac or not' date=' his ambition helped to propel the club to where we are now[/quote']

 

This

[John Boy Saint]

It's gonna be his take on things which you would expect. I'm sure Terry Paine's verdict would differ. Fact is that it's a book by a very important manager for us. He was in charge for my first 10 years as a Saints fan so that's good enough for me.

Likewise

I do believe we were royaly spoilt rotten as nippers Billy. Winning the FA Cup, promotion back to the 1st Division, holding our own against the top dogs (4-1 against European Champions Forest springs to mind) League Cup Final (which Lawrie got me tickets for) Cup runs, runners up to the Champions, European footie, and not forgetting one of the biggest all time coups in Football, signing European Footballer of the year and England superstar Kevin Keegan.

Feats yet to be eclipse by any of his successors.

And from my experience a decent chap with it.

[70's Mike]

Likewise

I do believe we were royaly spoilt rotten as nippers Billy. Winning the FA Cup, promotion back to the 1st Division, holding our own against the top dogs (4-1 against European Champions Forest springs to mind) League Cup Final (which Lawrie got me tickets for) Cup runs, runners up to the Champions, European footie, and not forgetting one of the biggest all time coups in Football, signing European Footballer of the year and England superstar Kevin Keegan.

Feats yet to be eclipse by any of his successors.

And from my experience a decent chap with it.

you got winning at Fratton in the cup

[70's Mike]

This

 

was discussing with my son, and he finds it hard to understand what the club was like prior to 76

[John Boy Saint]

you got winning at Fratton in the cup

Got to leave something to read........ No doubt his post match comment about coming away with a good result, a varied assortment of fruit and veg, plus £4.20 in loose change (something along those lines) will be in there.

[beatlesaint]

Likewise

I do believe we were royaly spoilt rotten as nippers Billy. Winning the FA Cup, promotion back to the 1st Division, holding our own against the top dogs (4-1 against European Champions Forest springs to mind) League Cup Final (which Lawrie got me tickets for) Cup runs, runners up to the Champions, European footie, and not forgetting one of the biggest all time coups in Football, signing European Footballer of the year and England superstar Kevin Keegan.

Feats yet to be eclipse by any of his successors.

And from my experience a decent chap with it.

 

Couldnt agree more. Can never understand people who slag him off, as you say comes across as a thoroughly decent man as well.

 

Be be interesting if he says much about Lowe, I well remember Lowe's last ever AGM where Lawrie, Leon Crouch, Mary Corbett et al staged a walk out half way through in disgust. Those were the days, more drama and misery than in an episode of Eastenders!!

[9-3]

Interesting. Tell more on AGM

[beatlesaint]

Interesting. Tell more on AGM

 

It was the AGM after Lowe had come back to replace Wilde and co.and we had those two Dutch coaches in charge, for want of a better word. Crouch, McMenemy and many supporters all fired questions at Lowe that as per were just butted back with floaty non commital answers except for as many digs as he could get in at the Wilde regime.

 

Incredibly some shareholders were still supportive of Lowe but it got to a point, and I can't remember now for the life of me what triggered it, but Crouch stood up, had a real go at Lowe, and walked out, followed by Lawrie, Mary Corbett and many others leaving just a few shareholders left.

 

Cant remember what happened next exactly, I do recall many of the staff at the time coming up to Crouch and Lawrie almost pleading with them to do something to get Lowe out once and for all.

 

Bad bad days, will be amazed if it's not in the book in some form. I have a feeling it was at the time Lowe replaced a picture of the cup winning team in the boardroom with a picture of a train, I know that ****ed off Lawrie big time.

[Toadhall Saint]

was discussing with my son' date=' and he finds it hard to understand what the club was like prior to 76[/quote']

 

Not a lot of people outside of the U.K. Had heard of Southampton as anything other that a port. 76 put that right and the rest as they say is history

[benjii]

I have a feeling it was at the time Lowe replaced a picture of the cup winning team in the boardroom with a picture of a train, I know that ****ed off Lawrie big time.

 

In hindsight, and given how well things have gone in the last six years, that's ****ing funny.

 

[The9]

It was the AGM after Lowe had come back to replace Wilde and co.and we had those two Dutch coaches in charge, for want of a better word. Crouch, McMenemy and many supporters all fired questions at Lowe that as per were just butted back with floaty non commital answers except for as many digs as he could get in at the Wilde regime.

 

Incredibly some shareholders were still supportive of Lowe but it got to a point, and I can't remember now for the life of me what triggered it, but Crouch stood up, had a real go at Lowe, and walked out, followed by Lawrie, Mary Corbett and many others leaving just a few shareholders left.

 

Cant remember what happened next exactly, I do recall many of the staff at the time coming up to Crouch and Lawrie almost pleading with them to do something to get Lowe out once and for all.

 

Bad bad days, will be amazed if it's not in the book in some form. I have a feeling it was at the time Lowe replaced a picture of the cup winning team in the boardroom with a picture of a train, I know that ****ed off Lawrie big time.

 

Strange that, because of all things, having a go at Lowe for being critical of Wilde seems the least sound thing to criticise him for.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

It was the AGM after Lowe had come back to replace Wilde and co.and we had those two Dutch coaches in charge, for want of a better word. Crouch, McMenemy and many supporters all fired questions at Lowe that as per were just butted back with floaty non commital answers except for as many digs as he could get in at the Wilde regime.

 

Incredibly some shareholders were still supportive of Lowe but it got to a point, and I can't remember now for the life of me what triggered it, but Crouch stood up, had a real go at Lowe, and walked out, followed by Lawrie, Mary Corbett and many others leaving just a few shareholders left.

 

Cant remember what happened next exactly, I do recall many of the staff at the time coming up to Crouch and Lawrie almost pleading with them to do something to get Lowe out once and for all.

 

Bad bad days, will be amazed if it's not in the book in some form. I have a feeling it was at the time Lowe replaced a picture of the cup winning team in the boardroom with a picture of a train, I know that ****ed off Lawrie big time.

 

Yea I was there. Lowe opened the meeting reading out a letter from an anonymous fan saying what a good job he was doing. I spoke first and said that he was a divisive figure and he should go and then Chorley did his throwing silver coins act. LM then spoke up as did his wife and the whole thing got out of hand, it was an interesting hour to say the least.

[ericofarabia]

Yea I was there. Lowe opened the meeting reading out a letter from an anonymous fan saying what a good job he was doing. I spoke first and said that he was a divisive figure and he should go and then Chorley did his throwing silver coins act. LM then spoke up as did his wife and the whole thing got out of hand, it was an interesting hour to say the least.

 

Mush's showin pashun ain't it!!

 

As said earlier, those of us of a certain age were well and truly spoilt rotten with the class of players, performances and success we had under his managership.

[Mowgli]

Before this turns into a bashing Lowe thread (Geez, some people have a real problem letting that go don't they....) I am slightly disappointed by some of Macs comments but it would hardly be a marketable book unless it had a few controversial bits in it. Still remember the LM era as some of the most entertaining in the clubs history and I thank him for that. My advice as he is now welcome back at the club (rightly so) is not to unzip his flies and **** on the club president. Bad form Lawrie, bad form...

[sadoldgit]

Lawrie Mac will always be a hero in my eyes as he managed us in what many of us old uns would say was a golden era for the club. Sadly it all went badly wrong for a while and Lawrie perhaps didn't cover himself in glory either during those days. Still without that ego I doubt if we would have achieved what we did in those days, including the amazing feat of signing the European Footballer of the Year! A true legend for the club, but not without his flaws!

[Norm]

Slightly disappointed by the comments towards TP but they were expected. Both LM and TP will have different versions of the same story. I'm looking forward to read the book though.

[ant]

The transcript for that AGM's available here: http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/4000947.print/

 

Quite a read...

[ecuk268]

Slightly disappointed by the comments towards TP but they were expected. Both LM and TP will have different versions of the same story. I'm looking forward to read the book though.

 

My dad used to know John Hollowbread when he was landlord of the Sun Inn at Romsey.

 

He told him that TP was very much the blue-eyed boy as far as Ted Bates was concerned. When TP walked in to training, Ted usually said something like "Morning Terry, son, how are you? What do you think about today's session?"

 

When John and most of the other players arrived, it was a curt "Morning".

 

It's not surprising that a newly-arrived Lawrie Mac saw him as a threat to his authority.

[rpb]

Slightly disappointed by the comments towards TP but they were expected. Both LM and TP will have different versions of the same story. I'm looking forward to read the book though.

 

Some of the comments in the Echo report redress the balance a little... http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/14408131.McMenemy_reveals_Paine_rift/?ref=fbgp#comments-anchor

[beatlesaint]

Yea I was there. Lowe opened the meeting reading out a letter from an anonymous fan saying what a good job he was doing. I spoke first and said that he was a divisive figure and he should go and then Chorley did his throwing silver coins act. LM then spoke up as did his wife and the whole thing got out of hand, it was an interesting hour to say the least.

 

thats right I forgot the anonymous letter and coin throwing act. Makes me shudder still to think of those days but my point is/was Lawrie showed how much during that period the club meant to him. Being of a certain age he will always be a hero to me.

[Saint Fen]

Unfortunately I am too young for the Lawrie era however heard things through my dad and his mates and the things I read.

I'll definitely read the book because he is one of the key people in the history of our club along with (in no particular order) Ted Bates, Terry Paine, Mick Channon and Matt Le Tissier.

 

My understanding from things I've heard is Terry Paine thought he had Ted's job in the bag, to the extent that there were rumours he advised Ted on picking the team when Ted was in charge however Ted choose Lawrie to take over which divided the team. I could imagine how hard it was for Lawrie.

 

I went to the agm which Lawrie, Crouch etc had a go at Lowe and I truly believe Lowe, Wilde and Crouch all made huge mistakes leading us to going into administration. I'd argue Wilde played as bigger part as Lowe as spending money we didn't have, Lowe was to blame in not spending while we were doing okay in the premier league being too interested in making a profit (however it was a PLC due to him which lead to the lack of reinvestment) and appointing duff managers such as Wiggley, Redknapp and Sturrock.

 

I've gone slightly away from the Lawrie book subject but I can't wait to read it. A true legend of the club without his contribution (amongst others) we would not be the club we are today.

[Roger]

Unfortunately I am too young for the Lawrie era however heard things through my dad and his mates and the things I read.

I'll definitely read the book because he is one of the key people in the history of our club along with (in no particular order) Ted Bates, Terry Paine, Mick Channon and Matt Le Tissier.

 

My understanding from things I've heard is Terry Paine thought he had Ted's job in the bag, to the extent that there were rumours he advised Ted on picking the team when Ted was in charge however Ted choose Lawrie to take over which divided the team. I could imagine how hard it was for Lawrie.

 

I went to the agm which Lawrie, Crouch etc had a go at Lowe and I truly believe Lowe, Wilde and Crouch all made huge mistakes leading us to going into administration. I'd argue Wilde played as bigger part as Lowe as spending money we didn't have, Lowe was to blame in not spending while we were doing okay in the premier league being too interested in making a profit (however it was a PLC due to him which lead to the lack of reinvestment) and appointing duff managers such as Wiggley, Redknapp and Sturrock.

 

I've gone slightly away from the Lawrie book subject but I can't wait to read it. A true legend of the club without his contribution (amongst others) we would not be the club we are today.

 

Crouch didn't do anything wrong he saved club when we needed money. Don't put him in same category.

[Saint Fen]

Crouch didn't do anything wrong he saved club when we needed money. Don't put him in same category.

 

Your right I shouldn't put Crouch in the same bracket as the other two, but he did make mistakes. However on the flip side he did help us prior to administration and I believe (no other basis from the things I read or heard) his heart was always in the right way place.

[BognorSaint76]

The transcript for that AGM's available here: http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/4000947.print/

 

Quite a read...

 

I don't know why I am laughing but the train picture answer from Lowe made me laugh

[sadoldgit]

I don't know why I am laughing but the train picture answer from Lowe made me laugh

 

Me too. But what a car crash. I'd forgotten just how cr@p those days were. And to think we have had people telling us how badly the club was being run during the last two summers!

[once_bitterne]

Yea I was there. Lowe opened the meeting reading out a letter from an anonymous fan saying what a good job he was doing. I spoke first and said that he was a divisive figure and he should go and then Chorley did his throwing silver coins act. LM then spoke up as did his wife and the whole thing got out of hand, it was an interesting hour to say the least.

 

This has just been posted on The Ugly. Is this FF it is from??

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

 

One of the guys who was involved with the Club historians and programme stories etc is not impressed as from his post on Facebook shown below

 

Could it be that I am the first person to read Lawrie McMenemy: A lifetime's obsession from cover to cover? Am I going to be the last person to read Lawrie McMenemy: A lifetime's obsession from cover to cover? It is likely. It is anything but compulsive reading.

 

However, I am a Saints’ historian and it’s an obligation to keep up with any relevant "literature". It was while working my way through the chapter devoted to the many alleged betrayals of Terry Paine that I stumbled across my own name, as the T-shirt says, on page 152. Amazing!Lawrie McMenemy has, I am happy to say, nothing good to say about me, all of which is half-truths and utter ********, triggered by what he reckons to be “offensive comments” I made about him in the Saints’ programme last season.

 

A nine-year-old, on reading the article in question, could have told Lawrie that I was not being pejorative, merely pointing out that, following relegation in 1974, his credentials to manage Southampton FC were called into question in some quarters. Something that Lawrie acknowledges himself. Evidently, Lawrie didn’t have a nine-year-old to hand when he took umbrage.

 

Facebook is not a suitable medium for book reviews, but I will be discussing A lifetime’s obsession elsewhere in the not too distant future. In the meantime, regarding the usefulness of this tome to even the most enthused of Saintly bibliophiles, it is worth bearing in mind that he devotes more space to erroneously trashing me, the best part of a page, than he does Alan Ball’s managerial career at The Dell or that of Dave Merrington. This is all the “Big Man” has to say about Merrington, conceded during a brief reflection of Alan Shearer’s development: “… one of the best youth coaches in England. Dave went on to manage the club.” That’s yer lot!

 

Dave Merrington rates greater attention than many other individuals who played key roles at Southampton Football Club during Lawrie’s three tenures but me, humble, innocent, little old me, I rate 350 words.

 

In short: a work of psychotic subjectivity, egregious cant and Homeric pusillanimity.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Sorry to disappoint OB but tis not me, I get on with L Mac just fine and recently shared a pot of tea with him at the Potters Heron amid much talk of old times. The man in question is none other than Dave Juson, a friend of Rupert Lowe's. Dave wrote something about LM in the programme that LM took understandable umbrage at and the two have been at loggerheads ever since. I attempted mediation but both men have strong opinions as can be seen by Lawrie's book and Dave's response. Incidentally Dave is no longer part of Hagiology- a shame, because he is an excellent writer and a dedicated researcher.

[once_bitterne]

Sorry to disappoint OB but tis not me, I get on with L Mac just fine and recently shared a pot of tea with him at the Potters Heron amid much talk of old times. The man in question is none other than Dave Juson, a friend of Rupert Lowe's. Dave wrote something about LM in the programme that LM took understandable umbrage at and the two have been at loggerheads ever since. I attempted mediation but both men have strong opinions as can be seen by Lawrie's book and Dave's response. Incidentally Dave is no longer part of Hagiology- a shame, because he is an excellent writer and a dedicated researcher.

 

[The9]

"Egregious cant" indeed.

[sadoldgit]

This has just been posted on The Ugly. Is this FF it is from??

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

 

One of the guys who was involved with the Club historians and programme stories etc is not impressed as from his post on Facebook shown below

 

Could it be that I am the first person to read Lawrie McMenemy: A lifetime's obsession from cover to cover? Am I going to be the last person to read Lawrie McMenemy: A lifetime's obsession from cover to cover? It is likely. It is anything but compulsive reading.

 

However, I am a Saints’ historian and it’s an obligation to keep up with any relevant "literature". It was while working my way through the chapter devoted to the many alleged betrayals of Terry Paine that I stumbled across my own name, as the T-shirt says, on page 152. Amazing!Lawrie McMenemy has, I am happy to say, nothing good to say about me, all of which is half-truths and utter ********, triggered by what he reckons to be “offensive comments” I made about him in the Saints’ programme last season.

 

A nine-year-old, on reading the article in question, could have told Lawrie that I was not being pejorative, merely pointing out that, following relegation in 1974, his credentials to manage Southampton FC were called into question in some quarters. Something that Lawrie acknowledges himself. Evidently, Lawrie didn’t have a nine-year-old to hand when he took umbrage.

 

Facebook is not a suitable medium for book reviews, but I will be discussing A lifetime’s obsession elsewhere in the not too distant future. In the meantime, regarding the usefulness of this tome to even the most enthused of Saintly bibliophiles, it is worth bearing in mind that he devotes more space to erroneously trashing me, the best part of a page, than he does Alan Ball’s managerial career at The Dell or that of Dave Merrington. This is all the “Big Man” has to say about Merrington, conceded during a brief reflection of Alan Shearer’s development: “… one of the best youth coaches in England. Dave went on to manage the club.” That’s yer lot!

 

Dave Merrington rates greater attention than many other individuals who played key roles at Southampton Football Club during Lawrie’s three tenures but me, humble, innocent, little old me, I rate 350 words.

 

In short: a work of psychotic subjectivity, egregious cant and Homeric pusillanimity.

 

That's a shame, I was looking forward to reading it but after the clips published in the Echo and this, I don't think I'll bother.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

I finally got round to reading Lawrie's book. I thought it was fabulous. Greatest manager we ever had by a country mile. Reading the cup final chapter brought back so many great memories. Relived it all on the train! Recommended reading.

[Wes Tender]

The transcript for that AGM's available here: http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/4000947.print/

 

Quite a read...

 

Thanks for posting that, Ant. I attended that AGM and it was fascinating to be reminded of it chapter and verse. That time when Lowe came back to running the club with the quisling Wilde were probably the darkest days in the club's history.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Thanks for posting that, Ant. I attended that AGM and it was fascinating to be reminded of it chapter and verse. That time when Lowe came back to running the club with the quisling Wilde were probably the darkest days in the club's history.

 

I remember being at work and following updates posted on the old bbc 606 forum from someone in the room. Just shows how ****ed the club was that supporters were following updates from an AGM like it was a match day thread.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Dellman]

whether you liked lawrie mac or not' date=' his ambition helped to propel the club to where we are now[/quote']

Relegation zone

[Dalek2003]

Lawrie Mac will always be a hero in my eyes as he managed us in what many of us old uns would say was a golden era for the club. Sadly it all went badly wrong for a while and Lawrie perhaps didn't cover himself in glory either during those days. Still without that ego I doubt if we would have achieved what we did in those days, including the amazing feat of signing the European Footballer of the Year! A true legend for the club, but not without his flaws!

 

It was indeed a Golden Era in so many ways...

[davefoggy]

The transcript for that AGM's available here: http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/4000947.print/

 

Quite a read...

 

Incredible. Seems history is about to repeat itself

[Badger]

Incredible. Seems history is about to repeat itself

 

This brought back memories:

 

From Dave Jones who I think was the accountant

 

At one point we thought Paul Allen was going to offer 65p a share but that was a false dawn and they spoke to several other parties and we received an offer from SISU.

[ecuk268]

Entertaining times but I there was less of a gap between the "big" sides and the rest.

 

Now you can predict the top 5 or 6 clubs each year because they can outspend everyone else. Back then you had clubs like Ipswich, Derby, Saints, Notts Forest all pushing for the top.

 

Apart from the fluke that was Leicester, I can't see that happening again.

[Nordic Saint]

Entertaining times but I there was less of a gap between the "big" sides and the rest.

 

Now you can predict the top 5 or 6 clubs each year because they can outspend everyone else. Back then you had clubs like Ipswich, Derby, Saints, Notts Forest all pushing for the top.

 

Apart from the fluke that was Leicester, I can't see that happening again.

 

Nowadays, the top 6 is different nearly every year, as is the top team. In those days it was nearly always Liverpool.

 

Instead of Ipswich, Derby and Forest we have had Leicester, Everton, Newcastle and Spurs. With the exception of the almost ever-present Man United and Liverpool, The top teams are always changing and always will do. It is true, however, that whichever club has the owner spending the most money on it will be up there but owners are constantly changing too. Man City currently have the wealthiest one. Before it was Chelsea. At one time it was Blackburn. In the future it will be other clubs.

[John B]

Slightly disappointed by the comments towards TP but they were expected. Both LM and TP will have different versions of the same story. I'm looking forward to read the book though.

 

I am a fan of both LM and TP but I feel TP like MLT and Rickie Lambert did more in helping SFC getting to where it is today.

 

LM provided the best day of my life helped by a helpful Cup draw and many memories at the Dell and elsewhere

[rick1976.4.38]

Nowadays, the top 6 is different nearly every year, as is the top team. In those days it was nearly always Liverpool.

 

Instead of Ipswich, Derby and Forest we have had Leicester, Everton, Newcastle and Spurs. With the exception of the almost ever-present Man United and Liverpool, The top teams are always changing and always will do. It is true, however, that whichever club has the owner spending the most money on it will be up there but owners are constantly changing too. Man City currently have the wealthiest one. Before it was Chelsea. At one time it was Blackburn. In the future it will be other clubs.

 

man city don't have an owner,they have a country that owns them,how the **** is anyone else meant to compete with that?

[Dalek2003]

Imagine if Paul Allen had bough the club, we could have been one of the top 6 instead of struggling to finish 17th.

[benjii]

man city don't have an owner,they have a country that owns them,how the **** is anyone else meant to compete with that?

 

At some point Abu Dhabi will need to diversify its economy and cease reliance on hydrocarbons. So in around 50 years maybe someone else will have more money.

Edited 12 April, 2018 by benjii

[CB Fry]

Personally I am thoroughly enjoying the completely random and unguessable nature in top flight football these days and going into August without the faintest idea who will be in the top six come May.

 

Not like those bad old days of the eighties when it was just so obvious and predictable that flipping Watford would finish second yet again.

[Nordic Saint]

Personally I am thoroughly enjoying the completely random and unguessable nature in top flight football these days and going into August without the faintest idea who will be in the top six come May.

 

Not like those bad old days of the eighties when it was just so obvious and predictable that flipping Watford would finish second yet again.

 

Your memory is obviously playing tricks with you again then because Watford finished 2nd just once while Liverpool won the league 8 times between 1980 and 1990. Even with all the money they currently have, I doubt that Man City will ever be that dominant. In the last 5 years, 4 different teams have been champions and 4 different teams have finished runners-up.