The Gastonettes

[St Lej]

Over on the Ramirez thread we have a debate split between those who think he could still do a job if utilised correctly, and those who think he's had his chance and is clearly not good enough. So, I ask the question, would your consider yourself a "Gastonette" (Pro Gaston), or a Gashtonette (anti Gaston)

 

Poll perhaps? Sticky?

[St Lej]

For the record I'm a Gashtonette

[VectisSaint]

For the record I'm a Gashtonette

No way.

[Give it to Ron]

3 managers all who improved the club and team were wrong and him playing in a league below and for a contract now deserves another chance?

I'll pass.

[sadoldgit]

I didn't have a problem with him as a player but think he is not well suited to the Premiership.

[Mr Biscuits]

Nope, he had his chances and didn't take them. A pity really because we did see glimpses of brilliance from him however I think two seasons is long enough for a player to prove themselves

[Golac's Iron Gonads]

Didn't think he was that wonderful in the famous Aston Villa game, I did post at the time that his control looked poor and he took up poor positions (for 12 millions worth). Nothing I've seen since has changed my mind.

[The9]

I didn't have a problem with him as a player but think he is not well suited to the Premiership.

 

I think Scotland's top division would love him. Not sure whether he'd adapt to rugby's version though?

 

Anyone who thinks we should give him a new contract is mental.

[St_Tel49]

Is this thread going to result in anything different being said about him than is on the other one? Seems pointless to me.

[OttawaSaint]

He's a bit like a few of the guys I play indoor with on a Friday night. Always hold on to the ball too long, get dispossessed and then make no effort to track back and get the ball. Rinse and Repeat. Skillful guys but easy to play against frustrating to play with as they are so predictable and always want to fanny around with the ball.

[The9]

He's a bit like a few of the guys I play indoor with on a Friday night. Always hold on to the ball too long, get dispossessed and then make no effort to track back and get the ball. Rinse and Repeat. Skillful guys but easy to play against frustrating to play with as they are so predictable and always want to fanny around with the ball.

 

I'd say the criticism of his workrate is probably the most misguided one there is. He does work hard, if not quite as hard as others who have less creativity.

 

The problem is his inability to use the ball effectively in the time available in the Premier League, how predictable his movement is on the ball, and how easily he loses it.

 

Also, when it comes down to it, he compares poorly to Mane in terms of impact, and poorly compared to Davis in terms of effectiveness and you can make similar comparisons with the rest of our midfield.

Edited 6 April, 2016 by The9

[ScepticalStan]

No, but I'm going to pretend to be just to wind up some of the people on here who are so easily infuriated

 

I think it was Saint Lej (could be wrong) who exploded a while back saying something along the lines of "He came for 12 million, he did OK, then he failed in his next season, then he went out on loan, then he came back to sit on the bench before being loaned out again during the end of his contract... AND NOW THERES A TWENTY-SOMETHING PAGE THREAD COMMEMORATING THE GREAT MAN!!!"

 

..,or something along those lines at least.

 

(Angry though he was, he has a fair point!)

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Le Tissier's inability to be accommodated in the England set up comes to mind. Ramirez was the most skilful player in our squad but these days managers demand much more.

[ScepticalStan]

No one seems to change their mind! Including me. Became a pointless debate ages ago.

 

All I saw was a player doing reasonably well First season when we were a pretty poor team, then he never got another run. Hull was a mistake for both parties, they were playing a physical defensive game and he didn't fit.

 

Hope boro do sign him, be good to see how he gets on although frustrating if he does do well for them.

 

It's not even just about Ramirez for me. I just want to see a creative number 10 used every week in a more attacking line up, not 3 central midfielders or more defensive players. Be nice to take more risks.

 

I don't disagree with this.

 

The number of times that Ramirez was said to have been 'given his chance' when he was subbed on with 10 minute to go, to play out of position whilst we were defending a one-goal lead away from home (or some such scenario) was frustrating. And of course, when he was given his chance in cup matches (Bristol City, Barnsley etc.) he was absolutely superb, but of course fell victim to the fact that he was up against weak opposition. I don't remember Ramirez ever being given three or four matches on the trot to see what he could do.

 

The only difference between my opinion and yours Adrian is that I'm kind of resigned to the fact that neither Pochettino nor Koeman have had him in their plans...like...at all. So, I guess I have to shrug and defer to their opinions given that they've see him in training week in week out.

 

Weird that he hasn't shown more fight though. Uruguay are a very, very competent international side and Ramirez had 34 caps for them aged 23/24 or so, yet I don't think he's even kicked a ball for the national team in getting on for two years now and you would have thought that would/should be a massive disappointment for him. If you're good enough to earn 34 caps for your (decent enough) national team you should surely be good enough for your international career to not come to such an abrupt halt just as you're getting into your mid-twenties.

[VectisSaint]

He's a bit like a few of the guys I play indoor with on a Friday night. Always hold on to the ball too long, get dispossessed and then make no effort to track back and get the ball. Rinse and Repeat. Skillful guys but easy to play against frustrating to play with as they are so predictable and always want to fanny around with the ball.

You play with Tadic on Friday nights? Explains a lot I suppose.

[VectisSaint]

I don't disagree with this.

 

The only difference between my opinion and yours Adrian is that I'm kind of resigned to the fact that neither Pochettino nor Koeman have had him in their plans...like...at all. So, I guess I have to shrug and defer to their opinions given that they've see him in training week in week out.

Think the issue is that he just didn't fit into their systems, and can't be or won't be moulded to do so. With Poch he did not not have the fitness to play the pressing game effectively, with Ronald not so sure what the issue is because he is clearly more talented than Tadic and definitely works harder and tracks back more than him (though that is not saying much). His fitness had definitely held him back to an extent in the past though, he was still suffering from the dead leg he picked up 2 years ago at the start of the season and there was a report that he had fallen out with the Saints medics who he felt had not helped him fully recover from that. Seems to have been resolved now though as he is clearly working hard and being very effective at Boro, where to some extent it is tougher playing in the rough and tumble of the Championship.

[St Lej]

Think the issue is that he just didn't fit into their systems, and can't be or won't be moulded to do so. With Poch he did not not have the fitness to play the pressing game effectively, with Ronald not so sure what the issue is because he is clearly more talented than Tadic and definitely works harder and tracks back more than him (though that is not saying much). His fitness had definitely held him back to an extent in the past though, he was still suffering from the dead leg he picked up 2 years ago at the start of the season and there was a report that he had fallen out with the Saints medics who he felt had not helped him fully recover from that. Seems to have been resolved now though as he is clearly working hard and being very effective at Boro, where to some extent it is tougher playing in the rough and tumble of the Championship.

 

You couldn't make some of this up. That's right, its the medical teams fault that his career never flourished here. It's also definitely much tougher to shine in the championship than the premier league. Glad we've got that clarified. Gaston is performing against the odds in the cauldron of Championship football, so just imagine how successful he'd be in the silky Prem, if only given the chance!!

[CB Fry]

I thought the horsesh it about how "the Championship is, like, actually harder than the Premier League when you, like, think about it" was dead and buried several seasons ago but it's great to see some utter dins on this forum still parroting it.

[VectisSaint]

You couldn't make some of this up. That's right, its the medical teams fault that his career never flourished here. It's also definitely much tougher to shine in the championship than the premier league. Glad we've got that clarified. Gaston is performing against the odds in the cauldron of Championship football, so just imagine how successful he'd be in the silky Prem, if only given the chance!!

Oh dear, thought it was only Big Din Fry that had comprehension issues.

[Batman]

You couldn't make some of this up. That's right, its the medical teams fault that his career never flourished here. It's also definitely much tougher to shine in the championship than the premier league. Glad we've got that clarified. Gaston is performing against the odds in the cauldron of Championship football, so just imagine how successful he'd be in the silky Prem, if only given the chance!!

 

Ummm

 

 

do agree with your sarcasm. Gaston had a decent first season, then fell off a cliff.

[JakkoUK]

Think we should get down on our hands and knees and beg Ramirez for our forgiveness for his miss treatment at the club and then offer an increased £80,000 a week 3 year contract.

[CB Fry]

Oh dear, thought it was only Big Din Fry that had comprehension issues.

 

How is it "to some extent it is tougher playing in the rough and tumble of the Championship" -entirely your words.

 

Let me make it really easy for you.

 

At no level, to no extent, on no scale, on no measure, on no metric is the Championship "tougher" than the Premier League. Not at all, for any style of football, for any given team, for any match.

 

It ain't difficult to comprehend that you don't have a fu cking clue. But in January you were musing we'd only win one more game and as a result Newcastle could finish above us. Laughable.

 

If you don't want to be seen as clueless, don't write the utter guff you do.

Edited 7 April, 2016 by CB Fry

[VectisSaint]

How is it "to some extent it is tougher playing in the rough and tumble of the Championship" -entirely your words.

 

Let me make it really easy for you.

 

At no level, to no extent, on no scale, on no measure, on no metric is the Championship "tougher" than the Premier League. Not at all, for any style of football, for any given team, for any match.

 

It ain't difficult to comprehend that you don't have a fu cking clue. But in January you were musing we'd only win one more game and as a result Newcastle could finish above us. Laughable.

 

If you don't want to be seen as clueless, don't write the utter guff you do.

To make it simple for you, Din, "To some extent" means that in some respects, not all, not entirely. If you don't think the big lumps who pose as centre back footballers in the Championship and below do not knock seven bells out of players like Ramirez (lightweights) then fine, that's your opinion (possibly misguided according to my opinion and that of many others). But why do you have to continue to be so ****ing rude when people have a different opinion than you. Having a discussion where people have different views than you, is what Forums are about, but you are clearly unable to deal with that concept, and so just make yourself look a complete tit when you post. Clearly you also don't understand "musing", because if you did you would realise that it was posted as a thought. that's what musing is, thinking about possibilities. It was a possibility, but thankfully it did not come to fruition, as with many other "musings". You do seem to have a real problem distinguishing between suppositions, thought, musings, whatever you like to call them, and facts. But due to your lack of understanding you keep trotting out old quotes because you think its big to belittle other people, whilst not realising that by doing so you demonstrate time and again that you are a complete and utter ***

 

Lets hope that we can return to some sort of discussion now, but I doubt it, maybe you will dig out another old post and quote out of context again, just to help if you want you could always go back and dig one out about Tadanari Lee.

Edited 7 April, 2016 by VectisSaint

[Turkish]

The wrong player at the wrong time for the wrong reasons. Only one person has his finger prints all over this signing and it was another case of Corteses ego running away with him I'm afraid. He wanted to prove that he could mix with the big boys and make a big signing. Ramirez was that man and unfortunately for him was seduced by the money, remember his quote when he joined "they pay me so much money" as well as a promise that we'd build a team round him. He needed to play in a team which dominated possession, had quick mobile strikers to be effective and when he joined us that wasn't what we were or had. Once Adkins had one and Pochetino came in there was only one way his career was heading at St Mary's, he was never going to suit Pochetino and although he showed glimpses of promise he was never going to be able to adapt to the high energy game MP wanted. A shame really as by all accounts he's a nice fella and a very talented lad just signed by a chairman trying to put himself on the map with little regard for how he might actually fit into the side he was meant to play in.

[Toadhall Saint]

Top post turks

[St Lej]

To make it simple for you, Din, "To some extent" means that in some respects, not all, not entirely. If you don't think the big lumps who pose as centre back footballers in the Championship and below do not knock seven bells out of players like Ramirez (lightweights) then fine, that's your opinion (possibly misguided according to my opinion and that of many others). But why do you have to continue to be so ****ing rude when people have a different opinion than you. Having a discussion where people have different views than you, is what Forums are about, but you are clearly unable to deal with that concept, and so just make yourself look a complete tit when you post. Clearly you also don't understand "musing", because if you did you would realise that it was posted as a thought. that's what musing is, thinking about possibilities. It was a possibility, but thankfully it did not come to fruition, as with many other "musings". You do seem to have a real problem distinguishing between suppositions, thought, musings, whatever you like to call them, and facts. But due to your lack of understanding you keep trotting out old quotes because you think its big to belittle other people, whilst not realising that by doing so you demonstrate time and again that you are a complete and utter ***

 

Lets hope that we can return to some sort of discussion now, but I doubt it, maybe you will dig out another old post and quote out of context again, just to help if you want you could always go back and dig one out about Tadanari Lee.

 

I bet you were one of the ones who thought he was too good for the rest of our attacking players and that his amazing intelligent movement, positional play and ability on the ball was wasted on an inferior set of team mates.

[CB Fry]

To make it simple for you, Din, "To some extent" means that in some respects, not all, not entirely. If you don't think the big lumps who pose as centre back footballers in the Championship and below do not knock seven bells out of players like Ramirez (lightweights) then fine, that's your opinion (possibly misguided according to my opinion and that of many others). But why do you have to continue to be so ****ing rude when people have a different opinion than you. Having a discussion where people have different views than you, is what Forums are about, but you are clearly unable to deal with that concept, and so just make yourself look a complete tit when you post. Clearly you also don't understand "musing", because if you did you would realise that it was posted as a thought. that's what musing is, thinking about possibilities. It was a possibility, but thankfully it did not come to fruition, as with many other "musings". You do seem to have a real problem distinguishing between suppositions, thought, musings, whatever you like to call them, and facts. But due to your lack of understanding you keep trotting out old quotes because you think its big to belittle other people, whilst not realising that by doing so you demonstrate time and again that you are a complete and utter ***

 

Lets hope that we can return to some sort of discussion now, but I doubt it, maybe you will dig out another old post and quote out of context again, just to help if you want you could always go back and dig one out about Tadanari Lee.

 

I think you didn't actually read my post. I'm quite aware what "to some extent" means, as my reply, which you quoted and didn't read makes very clear. Attacking players will get closed down, marked, stopped, hassled, deprived of space and all the rest of it by better defenders in the Premier League than in the Championship. That's kinda how it works. The rest is fiction in your head. I'd take a team with the strongest central defenders and defensive midfielders from the top flight and you build one from the Championship. My first, second, third, fourth and fifth choice line ups would still be stronger, more agreessive, a quicker and better than the creme de la creme of the Championship.

 

That's what "to no extent" means. Did you read it in my post?

 

As for your musings and thoughts, only a total idiot muses that we would only win one game between January and season end. It obviously wasn't going to happen, it was a utterly moronic thing to even muse but at the time you were adamant it was a possibility. It's only now, now the supreme obviousness of your rank stupidity is evident, and you're trying to play it off as a mere thought. My advice is to listen to me more, I can point out where you are clueless and you can take the opportunity to learn something.

Edited 9 April, 2016 by CB Fry