Matt Targett - Joins Aston Villa (Official)

[Saint86]

Shame we let Mings go tbh.

[VectisSaint]

Mings is ****e.

He really isn't. We should have signed him when he was at Ipswich, but doubt that he would come back anyway, we did treat him rather shabbily when he was with us as a youngster.

[Matthew Le God]

He really isn't. We should have signed him when he was at Ipswich, but doubt that he would come back anyway, we did treat him rather shabbily when he was with us as a youngster.

 

 

What makes you think that? I struggle to believe his claim he was released for being to small. He was at the academy at the same time as a lot of tiny players who the club didn't release. I think it is more likely he was deemed at the time to not be good enough and he uses the height story to cover that up.

[Whitey Grandad]

Yep but do you think hcdajfu?

 

Mings is ****e.

 

Probbaly better than all of our lot tbf.

 

I think he's probably better than some of what we have but not as good as we should be aiming for. To my mind if he were really good then he wouldn't have been out on loan.

[tajjuk]

Depends how well the club rate Vokins and whether they think he is ready to step up and be back up to Bertrand.

[SuperSAINT]

Depends how well the club rate Vokins and whether they think he is ready to step up and be back up to Bertrand.

 

Pretty much what I said too. Hard to sign a ‘Targett replacement’ who’s got real potential to challenge Berty for £10m.

 

Vokins stepping up would mean we’d have an extra £10m to put down on a striker or centre-back.

[Toadhall Saint]

I think he's probably better than some of what we have but not as good as we should be aiming for. To my mind if he were really good then he wouldn't have been out on loan.

 

Wasn’t the loan because of the injury and that he wasn’t going to get game time at Bournemouth?

[Dusic]

Pretty much what I said too. Hard to sign a ‘Targett replacement’ who’s got real potential to challenge Berty for £10m.

 

Vokins stepping up would mean we’d have an extra £10m to put down on a striker or centre-back.

James Justin would be ideal as can play RB and LB but sounds like he is Leicester bound.

 

If only Targett had a right foot he woulf have got so many more appearances in the last couple of years.

[Charlie Wayman]

Surprised he is still here. Any firm offer we should grab.

[Whitey Grandad]

Wasn’t the loan because of the injury and that he wasn’t going to get game time at Bournemouth?

 

Now you're getting above my pay grade but You're probably right:

 

 

"After joining from Ipswich for an £8million transfer fee in 2015, the centre-back suffered a knee ligament injury on his Cherries debut, which kept him out for more than a year, while he was ruled out for eight months with a back problem last

season."

 

https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/sport/17664648.tyrone-mings-believes-aston-villa-loan-has-refreshed-his-career/

[Chez]

James Justin would be ideal as can play RB and LB but sounds like he is Leicester bound.

decent shout, although I think he played quite a few games further forward and on the other side. I guess that shows his versatility. The Norwich fullbacks would be the ideal signings in terms of youth and promise, but fat chance of that now they have been promoted.

[Saint Fan CaM]

When I’ve seen Vokins he’s looked very capable of the step up, although perhaps more in a defensive manner rather than as WB.

[SaintJackoInHurworth]

Surprised no one has mentioned Sam McQueen! If Targett is sold then surely McQueen becomes the automatic reserve left back? That saves Vokins from the pressure of expecting to come in if Betrand is injured but also gives him the incentive to try and challenge McQueen first before he is expected to challenge Bertrand.

Personally, I have always preferred McQueen to Targett, though I think Targett has shown some promise at times when used in the last couple of years. Admittedly, though, McQueen did start out on the left wing and in the past year or two he seems to have reverted to that position. It remains to be seen how Hassenhuttle sees him and whether he rates him at all.

[Toadhall Saint]

Surprised no one has mentioned Sam McQueen! If Targett is sold then surely McQueen becomes the automatic reserve left back? That saves Vokins from the pressure of expecting to come in if Betrand is injured but also gives him the incentive to try and challenge McQueen first before he is expected to challenge Bertrand.

Personally, I have always preferred McQueen to Targett, though I think Targett has shown some promise at times when used in the last couple of years. Admittedly, though, McQueen did start out on the left wing and in the past year or two he seems to have reverted to that position. It remains to be seen how Hassenhuttle sees him and whether he rates him at all.

 

Good shout - I’d forgotten about Sam.

[Dusic]

http://bit.ly/2WAKXOL

 

Bit of a concern. To think we may have offers over £10m for Matt Targett and then decide not to sell him but to sell Bertrand instead is quite baffling.

 

The simple facts:

 

1. Targett is a poor PL player who has looked average as a LWB and consistently struggled as a LB due to weaknesses that cannot be improved.

 

2. Bertrand is a good PL player, solid defensively with quality going forward.

 

Sell Bertrand and we instantly make the first team weaker.

[SuperSAINT]

http://bit.ly/2WAKXOL

 

Bit of a concern. To think we may have offers over £10m for Matt Targett and then decide not to sell him but to sell Bertrand instead is quite baffling.

 

The simple facts:

 

1. Targett is a poor PL player who has looked average as a LWB and consistently struggled as a LB due to weaknesses that cannot be improved.

 

2. Bertrand is a good PL player, solid defensively with quality going forward.

 

Sell Bertrand and we instantly make the first team weaker.

 

Agree.

 

An interesting dilemma. We’ve already discussed the Vokins aspect on here.

 

The biggest question from this article is how much would we get IF Berty left? As that (I assume) would go into reinvesting into other positions.

 

The article indicates not a huge fee. I think in that case it’s not worth selling him.

I suppose it all comes down to what Ralph thinks.

 

I’ve also always been curious who would want Berty in the top end of the Prem (as everyone is obsessed with young fullbacks now).

[angelman]

Does Bertrand want to go?

[egg]

With RB being 30 soon and a short contract I doubt we'd get much more for him than Targett who imo isn't quite good enough so selling Targett makes more sense. That said, I think Mcqueen will really suit RH style and him and Vokins is a great prospect too. Something has to give and if we don't get decent offers for Targett I could see RB being moved on as we can't have 4 LB's.

[Nolan]

Does Bertrand want to go?

From stories i heard, he wasn't expected to be here last season. Targett was going to be first choice, McQueen second.

[Badger]

http://bit.ly/2WAKXOL

 

Bit of a concern. To think we may have offers over £10m for Matt Targett and then decide not to sell him but to sell Bertrand instead is quite baffling.

 

The simple facts:

 

1. Targett is a poor PL player who has looked average as a LWB and consistently struggled as a LB due to weaknesses that cannot be improved.

 

2. Bertrand is a good PL player, solid defensively with quality going forward.

 

Sell Bertrand and we instantly make the first team weaker.

 

Depends if Ralph thinks he can recruit better from Bundesliga or elsewhere.

[SuperSAINT]

Depends if Ralph thinks he can recruit better from Bundesliga or elsewhere.

 

I *think* the theory is if Berty goes, we wouldn’t recruit another left-back.

[Toadhall Saint]

Sell Matt keep Bertie. I’d rather let Bertie go for nowt in 2 years (and he has been a good servant for us) as we still have McQueen and vokins- one of which could over take Bertie in the 2 years. That gives us money to invest and keeps the experience of Bertie in the team and with competition for his place.

 

Win win in my book.

[disconnect]

If we sell Bertrand we'll lose one of our last genuinely quality players... If we sell Targett we lose a decent squad player.

 

Looks like it's goodbye to Bertie then.

[Saint Garrett]

Good shout - I’d forgotten about Sam.

 

He’s on the long term injury list.

 

 

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[Lighthouse]

I *think* the theory is if Berty goes, we wouldn’t recruit another left-back.

 

I flippin' well hope we do. If we don't it leaves us with Valery and Targett as two inexperienced and not all that fantastic full backs with basically nothing in reserve except Vokins and Stephens.

[tajjuk]

Unless the fee we get for Bertrand is going to be substantially higher than Targett, like 2x or more, so like £25 million or so, then it seems pointless.

 

Its very clear Bertrand is better than Targett, as soon as he was fit he took over the spot and played pretty much every game.

 

Plus it does not sound like he wants to leave, whilst Targett wants first team football.

 

So to me it seems obvious to keep the better player, have Vokins as his understudy, sell Targett for as much as possible, re-invest that elsewhere and in two years either Bertrand gets a new 1-2 year deal or we let him go cheaply and Vokins is hopefully ready to take over the first team slot.

 

As others have said, swapping Bertrand for Targett permanently makes use weaker, and you are then putting a 23 year old in the way of a 19 year old, so Vokins would never have a chance to take the spot unless Targett basically got a lot worse, by which point we'd probably have to buy a replacement.

 

The only scenario I can see Bertrand going is if he wants to go OR we get a big offer for him, neither of which seems likely.

[tajjuk]

I flippin' well hope we do. If we don't it leaves us with Valery and Targett as two inexperienced and not all that fantastic full backs with basically nothing in reserve except Vokins and Stephens.

 

I have no real issues with Valery being our first choice right back, the speed he has progressed in the last 6 months makes me think a full season next year under Ralph's training and we'll be struggling to hold on to him this time next year.

 

I also quite like that we are trying to identify pathways into the first team for our academy players, its looks almost certain that our back up full backs next year are going to be Vokins and Ramsey, and I think that is a good thing.

[Lighthouse]

I have no real issues with Valery being our first choice right back, the speed he has progressed in the last 6 months makes me think a full season next year under Ralph's training and we'll be struggling to hold on to him this time next year.

 

I also quite like that we are trying to identify pathways into the first team for our academy players, its looks almost certain that our back up full backs next year are going to be Vokins and Ramsey, and I think that is a good thing.

 

I don't have a problem with Valery being first choice but he is still young, inexperienced and 38 PL games is asking a lot physically and mentally. He will have injuries and patches of poor form, we need the option of resting and rotating him when needed. Ramsay is completely unproven and Stephens is awful as cover options.

 

I just don't want to find us with a knock to Valery, playing a back four of Targett, Bednarek, Vestegaard and Ramsay. That's weak, inexperienced and we'd probably end up changing the whole system to enable a back five to cover our frailties.

[Chez]

When I’ve seen Vokins he’s looked very capable of the step up, although perhaps more in a defensive manner rather than as WB.

 

like the sound of this. Has he got genuine pace?

[Chez]

I don't have a problem with Valery being first choice but he is still young, inexperienced and 38 PL games is asking a lot physically and mentally. He will have injuries and patches of poor form, we need the option of resting and rotating him when needed. Ramsay is completely unproven and Stephens is awful as cover options.

 

I just don't want to find us with a knock to Valery, playing a back four of Targett, Bednarek, Vestegaard and Ramsay. That's weak, inexperienced and we'd probably end up changing the whole system to enable a back five to cover our frailties.

 

From what little I have seen of Ramsey looks a little bit of a fish out of water at right back. He looks more of a centre back to me, although I'm not convinced he is ready to do a job their.

[qwertyell]

like the sound of this. Has he got genuine pace?

Can't say for certain that he's out and out fast - busy is perhaps a better word. I think he's got a touch of Chilwell about him, from what I've seen. Obviously less developed and not at that level yet, but there's something to work with for sure.

 

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[Chez]

selling Bertrand is madness IMO. He is a quality player and at some point you need consider talent on the pitch is more important than figures on the balance sheet.

[Chez]

Can't say for certain that he's out and out fast - busy is perhaps a better word. I think he's got a touch of Chilwell about him, from what I've seen. Obviously less developed and not at that level yet, but there's something to work with for sure.

 

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Chilwell looks a proper player to me.

is he quicker than Target?

 

What about built? Is he a big strong lad or more of a wippet type?

How is he in the air and does he have the first touch for this level?

 

 

The really top class fullbacks and pacey and tremendous judgement on distances, knowing when to jump into the tackle and when to drop off. How is his decision making?

[qwertyell]

Chilwell looks a proper player to me.

is he quicker than Target?

 

What about built? Is he a big strong lad or more of a wippet type?

How is he in the air and does he have the first touch for this level?

 

 

The really top class fullbacks and pacey and tremendous judgement on distances, knowing when to jump into the tackle and when to drop off. How is his decision making?

He's not tall - he's about Luke Shaw sized. But minus the Happy Meal addiction.

 

Aerially, he's going to have learn to box clever, but that's true of most full backs. They're rarely towering six footers. I imagine adapting to the physical side of first team football will be his first hurdle to overcome.

 

Good touch, very willing worker up and down the line. Wouldn't say his delivery stands out as being above and beyond expectation - Targett's always had a lovely cross on him - but he's a nice looking footballer, comfortable on the ball, gets about the pitch, plenty of hustle.

 

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[Dark Munster]

selling Bertrand is madness IMO. He is a quality player and at some point you need consider talent on the pitch is more important than figures on the balance sheet.

This. RB is perfect for a club our size, a quality player but who isn't quite so brilliant that the big boys have taken him off us. Even if he goes for a free in 2 years he's been a great professional, a good buy and served us well. Hopefully he can be convinced to sign an extension.

[Pilchards]

With our system the Wing backs need to be the fittest players on the pitch.

IMHO Bertrand is not getting forward as much as he used too because he’s not getting any younger.

That might be your reason why we are listening to offers?

[Saint_clark]

This. RB is perfect for a club our size, a quality player but who isn't quite so brilliant that the big boys have taken him off us. Even if he goes for a free in 2 years he's been a great professional, a good buy and served us well. Hopefully he can be convinced to sign an extension.

 

Agreed, say we sell him for £15million, we're basically saying that having him for two years is worth less than that.

Having said that I seem to have more faith in Targett than most. I won't be too worried either way but if we do sell Bertrand i'd hope that we'd push for £20million.

[tajjuk]

I don't have a problem with Valery being first choice but he is still young, inexperienced and 38 PL games is asking a lot physically and mentally. He will have injuries and patches of poor form, we need the option of resting and rotating him when needed. Ramsay is completely unproven and Stephens is awful as cover options.

 

I just don't want to find us with a knock to Valery, playing a back four of Targett, Bednarek, Vestegaard and Ramsay. That's weak, inexperienced and we'd probably end up changing the whole system to enable a back five to cover our frailties.

 

Depending on formation JWP actually covered right back/right back decently IMO. I'm not sure I'd necessarily want him playing as RB in a back 4, but I think in a back 5 where wingbacks have a little more defensive cover behind them he did pretty well.

 

He's not tall - he's about Luke Shaw sized.

 

 

Luke Shaw is big for most full backs, he is 6' 1"

[Useful Idiot]

and Vokins is between 5'7"-5'8"

[st alex]

http://bit.ly/2WAKXOL

 

Bit of a concern. To think we may have offers over £10m for Matt Targett and then decide not to sell him but to sell Bertrand instead is quite baffling.

 

The simple facts:

 

1. Targett is a poor PL player who has looked average as a LWB and consistently struggled as a LB due to weaknesses that cannot be improved.

 

2. Bertrand is a good PL player, solid defensively with quality going forward.

 

Sell Bertrand and we instantly make the first team weaker.

 

Think I'd rather we sold Bertrand while still can. He's 29 and it's probably the last transfer window we'd get a decent fee for him. He's not been as good in the past season or two as he has previously, he's fallen out of the England squad and is a player on the decline.

 

I think Targett's improved in the past season or two and he's going in the opposite trajectory. He's a real threat going forwards, with good pace and a quality cross. I'm not sure how you can know any defensive weakness can't be improved? It would be interesting to see the stats over the past couple of seasons for comparisson, I feel as if Targett's done well with assists at least.

 

An option I'd quite like to see would be to keep both and possibly try Targett playing ahead of Bertrand as a left winger with them overlapping and covering for each other.

[qwertyell]

Luke Shaw is big for most full backs, he is 6' 1"

 

Never in a million years is he 6' 1". Horizontally, perhaps.

 

In any case, he was (from memory) of not dissimilar stature to Vokins when he played for us.

 

 

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[Dusic]

Never in a million years is he 6' 1". Horizontally, perhaps.

 

In any case, he was (from memory) of not dissimilar stature to Vokins when he played for us.

 

 

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Shaw is 6'1. I remember his league debut away at WBA they hit every goalkick out to his side thinking they could bully him and he dealt with it easily.

 

Shaw was physically a beast at 18, the same as most teenagers that break into PL football.

 

Its half the battle, and its why Targett will never be good enough in the PL - he doesn't have the physical capability needed to be a good PL fullback.

[tajjuk]

Never in a million years is he 6' 1". Horizontally, perhaps.

 

In any case, he was (from memory) of not dissimilar stature to Vokins when he played for us.

 

 

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Pretty much every source says he is 6' 1"

 

It's difficult to find pictures of him standing next to people but in this one he is next to Zaha -

 

 

And Zaha is 5' 11", and you can clearly see Shaw is taller.

[st alex]

Shaw is 6'1. I remember his league debut away at WBA they hit every goalkick out to his side thinking they could bully him and he dealt with it easily.

 

Shaw was physically a beast at 18, the same as most teenagers that break into PL football.

 

Its half the battle, and its why Targett will never be good enough in the PL - he doesn't have the physical capability needed to be a good PL fullback.

 

Targett's 6 foot so there's barely any difference in stature. With 40 odd PL appearances Targett's proved himself enough in the Premier League to be allegedly interesting other Premier league teams (Aston Villa).

[Sheaf Saint]

Targett's 6 foot so there's barely any difference in stature.

 

It's not just the height though is it. There is quite obviously a big difference in stature between the two of them.

 

Shaw was/is clearly much more muscular and powerful than Targett, who is very lightweight and lets wingers get past him far too easily to be an established LB in the PL.

 

As long as Bertrand is happy to stay as our first choice, with McQueen and Vokins as backup, I would be more than happy for us to cash in on him.

[qwertyell]

He's shorter than Anthony Martial (5' 11").

 

And shorter than Daley Blind (5' 10").

 

And here he is absolutely towering over Jose Mourinho (5' 9")...

 

He's far closer to Ward-Prowse (5' 8") than Rodriguez (6' 1").

 

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[egg]

There's no comparison between Vokins and Shaw whatsoever. Physically there's almost half a foot between them, and Shaw is as strong as an ox. Defensively Shaw is more solid. He also has more pace and better delivery. Apart from that they're just the same.

[The Cat]

Vokins is better at free kicks and probably has a more balanced diet, other than that Shaw was way ahead of him in every aspect at the same age. Not that there's any shame in that because Shaw is an excellent player.

[Chez]

I think Targett...with good pace

 

I've read you post four or five times just to be sure, but no matter how many double takes I make, it is clear that you really have described Targett as having "good pace"...all I can say in reply is since ****ing when?

[st alex]

I've read you post four or five times just to be sure, but no matter how many double takes I make, it is clear that you really have described Targett as having "good pace"...all I can say in reply is since ****ing when?

 

I think he's got decent enough pace. He's not Sadio Mane but it's enough for him to get to the byline and put crosses in. 1 goal and 3 assists in 16 last season compared to Bertrand's 1 goal and 0 assists in 24. https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/18/Show/England-Southampton

 

I like Bertand he's a very good player, but like with Pelle, think that it's worth cashing in on him while we can.

 

Would rather sell the player in decline than the one who's improving.