Tax Evasion by Dave's Dad and World Leaders

[aintforever]

I know you have an issue with it, because I remember when you were banging on about Tony Benn (RIP) and how he put his estate worth 5 million, into trust, to avoid inheritance tax.

 

(If anyone else is interested in the Tony Benn tax dodge and how to go about it, here's some practical advice

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/11189430/Tony-Benns-inheritance-tax-dodge-how-it-works-and-how-you-can-use-it-too.html)

 

NEWSFLASH: stalwarts of the left secretly hate inheritance tax too!!

 

Don't agree with that either

[Johnny Bognor]

Don't agree with that either

 

So Tony Benn moves £5m about to take advantage of inheritance tax rules (where Hillary Benn MP is set to benefit from £1m+ in inheritance, with little or no IHT), but no lefty even mentions it.

 

Plenty have a problem with Cameron being gifted £200k.

 

This is Tony "I am just a commoner" Benn, a stalwart of socialism. Some people round here really need to take the blinkers off....

Edited 12 April, 2016 by Johnny Bognor

[aintforever]

So Tony Benn moves £5m about to take advantage of inheritance tax rules (where Hillary Benn MP is set to benefit from £1m+ in inheritance, with little or no IHT), but you have a problem with Cameron being gifted £200k.

 

Jeez, some people round here really need to take the blinkers off. This is Tony "I am just a commoner" Benn, a stalwart of socialism.

 

You clearly have problems reading, I don't agree with what either of them have done.

[hutch]

You clearly have problems reading, I don't agree with what either of them have done.

 

I agree. What was the stupid old bat thinking, giving away her own money like that, without even getting permission.

 

I bet she'll bloody well make sure she doesn't die for at least two more years, just to make sure it isn't taxed. Some people are just so damned selfish.

[Lord Duckhunter]

It's pretty hard to have a sensible debate on this until lefties understand the difference between tax avoidance & tax evasion.

[Verbal]

It's pretty hard to have a sensible debate on this until lefties understand the difference between tax avoidance & tax evasion.

 

I assume it'll happen when the swivel-eyed loons on the right understand that today's tax avoidance is tomorrow's tax evasion. Ever heard of IR35?

[Batman]

http://order-order.com/2016/04/12/mcdonnells-14000-a-year-pension-managed-in-guernsey/

 

uh oh...I guess it is fine for him though. He is not a Tory. The usual rules do not apply.

 

 

There has been one rule for the rich and another for the rest of us,” said John McDonnell yesterday as he called on the PM to answer if he had “benefited directly or indirectly” from offshore funds

Edited 12 April, 2016 by Batman

[CB Saint]

I assume it'll happen when the swivel-eyed loons on the right understand that today's tax avoidance is tomorrow's tax evasion. Ever heard of IR35?

 

Ahh the law that is widely flouted by pretty much everyone who operates a personal service company

[Johnny Bognor]

http://order-order.com/2016/04/12/mcdonnells-14000-a-year-pension-managed-in-guernsey/

 

uh oh...I guess it is fine for him though. He is not a Tory. The usual rules do not apply.

 

The lefties are bang at it, but their blind followers are too gullible to see it. Anyway, back to the nasty party LOL

[Hockey_saint]

The lefties are bang at it, but their blind followers are too gullible to see it. Anyway, back to the nasty party LOL

 

No, we know exactly what it is...But we care a little bit more about robbing from the poor than tax dodging (although basically, it's the same thing)....you know, priorities and stuff but if it get's the presses attention about dodgy Dave (and trust me, there are a hell of a lot of people in this country that would call him worse) then carry on...I have stated about 3 times that I am fully aware that nothing illegal has gone on in this case, but carry on about "those stupid lefties" and I'll carry on about those heartless righties if you don't mind.

Edited 12 April, 2016 by Hockey_saint

[Johnny Bognor]

No, we know exactly what it is...But we care a little bit more about robbing from the poor than tax dodging....you know, priorities and stuff but if it get's the presses attention about dodgy Dave (and trust me, there are a hell of a lot of people in this country that would call him worse) then carry on...I have stated about 3 times that I am fully aware that nothing illegal has gone on in this case, but carry on about "those stupid lefties" and I'll carry on about those heartless righties if you don't mind.

 

if you are against tax evasion, i will stand with you.

 

If you are against tax avoidance you have a sympathetic ally.

 

But if you only criticise tory evaders and avoiders, conveniently ignoring labour evaders and avoiders (which are often worse), then i will stand against you.

 

Simple as that really. You see, i am colour blind when it comes to this sort of stuff. A **** is a **** and i couldnt give a toss if they are red or blue.

[Hockey_saint]

if you are against tax evasion, i will stand with you.

 

If you are against tax avoidance you have a sympathetic ally.

 

But if you only criticise tory evaders and avoiders, conveniently ignoring labour evaders and avoiders (which are often worse), then i will stand against you.

 

Simple as that really. You see, i am colour blind when it comes to this sort of stuff. A **** is a **** and i couldnt give a toss if they are red or blue.

 

I am against any kind of tax-fiddling from any side...As long as it takes away tax money that could be used for things like the NHS, I'm against it. I would also be against hurting the poorest in society whilst giving the richest tax breaks and such from...Both sides as it appears Blair brought in a fair few that seem to agree with that type of thing for Labour too.

 

I just feel that the press have been, as of late, battering the labour party and often for no good reason so i see this as a bit of a change....obviously until it all goes to hell after the referendum (either way it goes).

[cambsaint]

I have been a life-long Labour sympathiser except for Blair's criminal escapades in Iraq and the totally unelectable Corbyn and his entryist mates.

However I think the criticism of Cameron is wholly unjustified.

When I and my father before me were in business we expected our accountants to minimise our tax bills by any legal means.

Whether it is fair or not is a moot point, but the self-employed and company owners frequently take huge risks and as I found out a hard-earned private pension before recent legislation-too late for me regrettably- was virtually worthless.

 

The most surprising thing to me was just how little Cameron earned, a ridiculously low figure for his responsibilities and stress levels IMO.

 

However I would love to see all ordinary MP's tax returns made public so we could see just how much they were earning from all those nice little directorships and consultancies when they are supposedly looking after our interests.

A MoD civil servant once told me that every week he passed the enormous walled mansion of a very well known Labour politician and he and all his colleagues wondered how he could afford it having had no family money or a rich wife. A recent TV and newspaper article that fellow MPs censured but was exonerated by an independent investigation showed how.

An ex minister of health was paid an enormous sum by a multiple pharmacy wholesaler/retailer to be their Chairman while still a sitting MP!!!

 

Finally I hate IHT. My father was taxed during his very hard working life, and I can assure you that I and my sisters begrudge every single penny we had to pay up. My advice to anybody is to make sure you give as much as you can afford to your children seven years before you die just like Mrs Cameron snr so the grasping politicians can't waste it.

 

Unfortunately all the emphasis on Cameron has largely taken the spotlight off the very real abuses of the off-shore schemes.

 

I sincerely hope that Cameron's publication of his tax affairs leads to a lasting change and all those in public life paid out of the public purse have to publish their affairs, however it would be a step too far for all tax affairs to be publicised, only those of us who choose to govern us and also those in senior public appointments eg Council Chief executives and NHS trust directors who are not paid by PAYE.

[moonraker]

#213, at last a balanced non partisan post.

[whelk]

Plenty on here would fly through this 'test'

 

[Whitey Grandad]

#213, at last a balanced non partisan post.

 

Agreed, well said.

[Jonnyboy]

if you are against tax evasion, i will stand with you.

 

If you are against tax avoidance you have a sympathetic ally.

 

But if you only criticise tory evaders and avoiders, conveniently ignoring labour evaders and avoiders (which are often worse), then i will stand against you.

 

Simple as that really. You see, i am colour blind when it comes to this sort of stuff. A **** is a **** and i couldnt give a toss if they are red or blue.

 

You say that but when was the last time you weren't moaning about Labour and "lefties?"

[buctootim]

You say that but when was the last time you weren't moaning about Labour and "lefties?"

 

and also unable to see the obvious fact that people will focus more on the actions of a government in power and responsible for tackling tax evasion than random politicians who arent in power and likely never will be.

[saint1977]

I have been a life-long Labour sympathiser except for Blair's criminal escapades in Iraq and the totally unelectable Corbyn and his entryist mates.

However I think the criticism of Cameron is wholly unjustified.

When I and my father before me were in business we expected our accountants to minimise our tax bills by any legal means.

Whether it is fair or not is a moot point, but the self-employed and company owners frequently take huge risks and as I found out a hard-earned private pension before recent legislation-too late for me regrettably- was virtually worthless.

 

The most surprising thing to me was just how little Cameron earned, a ridiculously low figure for his responsibilities and stress levels IMO.

 

However I would love to see all ordinary MP's tax returns made public so we could see just how much they were earning from all those nice little directorships and consultancies when they are supposedly looking after our interests.

A MoD civil servant once told me that every week he passed the enormous walled mansion of a very well known Labour politician and he and all his colleagues wondered how he could afford it having had no family money or a rich wife. A recent TV and newspaper article that fellow MPs censured but was exonerated by an independent investigation showed how.

An ex minister of health was paid an enormous sum by a multiple pharmacy wholesaler/retailer to be their Chairman while still a sitting MP!!!

 

Finally I hate IHT. My father was taxed during his very hard working life, and I can assure you that I and my sisters begrudge every single penny we had to pay up. My advice to anybody is to make sure you give as much as you can afford to your children seven years before you die just like Mrs Cameron snr so the grasping politicians can't waste it.

 

Unfortunately all the emphasis on Cameron has largely taken the spotlight off the very real abuses of the off-shore schemes.

 

I sincerely hope that Cameron's publication of his tax affairs leads to a lasting change and all those in public life paid out of the public purse have to publish their affairs, however it would be a step too far for all tax affairs to be publicised, only those of us who choose to govern us and also those in senior public appointments eg Council Chief executives and NHS trust directors who are not paid by PAYE.[/QUO

 

Looked in on this thread for first time in a few days and well done Camb Saint for posting some non-partisan, colour-blind common sense.

 

I think the furore over Cameron (and other examples from political parties on this thread) highlights two things:

 

1) The UK's unrealistic IHT laws

2) The stupidity of highlighting politicians' tax returns for piddling sums compartively when global corporations have been evading tax offshore - not planning but avoiding - on a grand multi-billion scale. Funnily enough, the media discourse doesn't reflect this at all.

 

Partly I suspect this is a hangover from the MPs expenses saga - as Camb Saint reflects - and I think his suggested remedy for governance is sensible. I'd go much further around a big international crackdown on tax havens and offshore activity.

 

This would all be helped if the UK and other major international press coverage highlighted these abuses and Pompey-style cheating by corporations (which damage competitors, particularly smaller competitors offering a better service). I suspect the reason they won't and are cowards is because of their reliance on advertising which has totally compromised their professional ethics - or what's left of the post-Levinson tatters. Telegraph has been caught on this recently but they are all very quiet on this issue but quite happy to pound Cameron and co as public servants.

 

Funnily enough, the shambles of her Majesty's Opposition haven't seen this and are too busy trying to land a few cheap blows to compensate for being pathetic is every regard since grabbing the reins last year via all their £3 Trotskyites.

[Hockey_saint]

I have been a life-long Labour sympathiser except for Blair's criminal escapades in Iraq and the totally unelectable Corbyn and his entryist mates.

However I think the criticism of Cameron is wholly unjustified.

When I and my father before me were in business we expected our accountants to minimise our tax bills by any legal means.

Whether it is fair or not is a moot point, but the self-employed and company owners frequently take huge risks and as I found out a hard-earned private pension before recent legislation-too late for me regrettably- was virtually worthless.

 

The most surprising thing to me was just how little Cameron earned, a ridiculously low figure for his responsibilities and stress levels IMO.

 

However I would love to see all ordinary MP's tax returns made public so we could see just how much they were earning from all those nice little directorships and consultancies when they are supposedly looking after our interests.

A MoD civil servant once told me that every week he passed the enormous walled mansion of a very well known Labour politician and he and all his colleagues wondered how he could afford it having had no family money or a rich wife. A recent TV and newspaper article that fellow MPs censured but was exonerated by an independent investigation showed how.

An ex minister of health was paid an enormous sum by a multiple pharmacy wholesaler/retailer to be their Chairman while still a sitting MP!!!

 

Finally I hate IHT. My father was taxed during his very hard working life, and I can assure you that I and my sisters begrudge every single penny we had to pay up. My advice to anybody is to make sure you give as much as you can afford to your children seven years before you die just like Mrs Cameron snr so the grasping politicians can't waste it.

 

Unfortunately all the emphasis on Cameron has largely taken the spotlight off the very real abuses of the off-shore schemes.

 

I sincerely hope that Cameron's publication of his tax affairs leads to a lasting change and all those in public life paid out of the public purse have to publish their affairs, however it would be a step too far for all tax affairs to be publicised, only those of us who choose to govern us and also those in senior public appointments eg Council Chief executives and NHS trust directors who are not paid by PAYE.[/QUO

 

Looked in on this thread for first time in a few days and well done Camb Saint for posting some non-partisan, colour-blind common sense.

 

I think the furore over Cameron (and other examples from political parties on this thread) highlights two things:

 

1) The UK's unrealistic IHT laws

2) The stupidity of highlighting politicians' tax returns for piddling sums compartively when global corporations have been evading tax offshore - not planning but avoiding - on a grand multi-billion scale. Funnily enough, the media discourse doesn't reflect this at all.

 

Partly I suspect this is a hangover from the MPs expenses saga - as Camb Saint reflects - and I think his suggested remedy for governance is sensible. I'd go much further around a big international crackdown on tax havens and offshore activity.

 

This would all be helped if the UK and other major international press coverage highlighted these abuses and Pompey-style cheating by corporations (which damage competitors, particularly smaller competitors offering a better service). I suspect the reason they won't and are cowards is because of their reliance on advertising which has totally compromised their professional ethics - or what's left of the post-Levinson tatters. Telegraph has been caught on this recently but they are all very quiet on this issue but quite happy to pound Cameron and co as public servants.

 

Funnily enough, the shambles of her Majesty's Opposition haven't seen this and are too busy trying to land a few cheap blows to compensate for being pathetic is every regard since grabbing the reins last year via all their £3 Trotskyites.

 

See, that's where the article above is unbalanced...Explain to me, without the help of the right-wing media's obvious influence, how the Labour party are a shambles? They were a shambles when they were trying the ape the conservatives so what on earth do you want from the opposition.

 

I mean, I love these "I'm a labour voter but I'll never vote for Corbyn" contributors....if that's what you think, why did you vote Labour in the first place?

Edited 13 April, 2016 by Hockey_saint

[Jonnyboy]

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2014/09/22/new-report-the-tax-gap-is-119-4-billion-and-rising/

[cambsaint]

 

 

I mean, I love these "I'm a labour voter but I'll never vote for Corbyn" contributors....if that's what you think, why did you vote Labour in the first place?

 

I am very possibly considerably older than you and well remember the fifties and early sixties when social mobility was only just beginning.

My grandfather was a friendly society secretary in a northern industrial city having started as a fourteen year old wool worker who self-educated himself via union aided WEA courses. He became the executive secretary of a huge branch of a friendly society and collected the weekly subs from workers and paid for their wives and children to have some medical services before the onset of the NHS, when only working men were covered by the Lloyd George Act.

Father was extremely clever but couldn't go on to get a full degree and had to be satisfied with a professional qualification he could get as an apprentice.

Amazingly when Grandad who held one of the largest business accounts in the City enquired about jobs in the bank for his sons he was told that they weren't from the right social class for the bank (Dad's Army is absolutely accurate.)

I was the first in our family to go to university with a generous grant from HCC.

The Labour politicians of that era were totally different from the career politicians from today, most were grammar school boys who didn't come from great privilege and had been to university on scholarships. Many were intelligent working class who had come through the Union movement and gained their education from the WEA and the trades union college in Oxford.

The vast majority of current Labour politicians today just don't compare with those who I respected and respect.

When at Manchester University I knew several Trots who pioneered entryism by helping at Labour Party and Union meetings. They realised that very few members wanted to be on committees and do the donkey work so a handful of highly motivated activists could easily disguise their true far left leanings and soon have massive influence on local parties.

I also met a members of the last Labour cabinet when I was politically active at university- these were not the entryists that the massively under-rated Neil Kinnock overcame.

I remember one of them advising us that if we were arrested at an anti-apartheid demo and beaten to bite our cheeks till they bled and cough up blood. As this could signify internal injuries they might send you to hospital.

 

I would therefore be grateful if you didn't insult me for being absolutely furious to see the Party I've supported for over fifty years being led into oblivion by a scruffy incompetent buffoon and a gang of trots.

[Hockey_saint]

 

I am very possibly considerably older than you and well remember the fifties and early sixties when social mobility was only just beginning.

My grandfather was a friendly society secretary in a northern industrial city having started as a fourteen year old wool worker who self-educated himself via union aided WEA courses. He became the executive secretary of a huge branch of a friendly society and collected the weekly subs from workers and paid for their wives and children to have some medical services before the onset of the NHS, when only working men were covered by the Lloyd George Act.

Father was extremely clever but couldn't go on to get a full degree and had to be satisfied with a professional qualification he could get as an apprentice.

Amazingly when Grandad who held one of the largest business accounts in the City enquired about jobs in the bank for his sons he was told that they weren't from the right social class for the bank (Dad's Army is absolutely accurate.)

I was the first in our family to go to university with a generous grant from HCC.

The Labour politicians of that era were totally different from the career politicians from today, most were grammar school boys who didn't come from great privilege and had been to university on scholarships. Many were intelligent working class who had come through the Union movement and gained their education from the WEA and the trades union college in Oxford.

The vast majority of current Labour politicians today just don't compare with those who I respected and respect.

When at Manchester University I knew several Trots who pioneered entryism by helping at Labour Party and Union meetings. They realised that very few members wanted to be on committees and do the donkey work so a handful of highly motivated activists could easily disguise their true far left leanings and soon have massive influence on local parties.

I also met a members of the last Labour cabinet when I was politically active at university- these were not the entryists that the massively under-rated Neil Kinnock overcame.

I remember one of them advising us that if we were arrested at an anti-apartheid demo and beaten to bite our cheeks till they bled and cough up blood. As this could signify internal injuries they might send you to hospital.

 

I would therefore be grateful if you didn't insult me for being absolutely furious to see the Party I've supported for over fifty years being led into oblivion by a scruffy incompetent buffoon and a gang of trots.

 

Well that's bloody impressive but you know the alternative seem to be of the same ilk who essentially held your grandfather back. So that's where my confusion lies. I mean, why would a in the grain labourite, come on to this board (obviously full of right-wingers) and say "I'll never vote Corbyn"?

 

Who else is there for Labour? I mean, the rest essentially appear to be far too influenced by Tony Blair and down that route all we appear to have is a similar version of the elitist government we currently have. I mean, also, he was voted in by popular vote you know? I meant no insult to you but I've seen lots of right-wingers pretending to be from the left professing their former voting of the labour party but seem happy enough to run the party down in public...These right wingers don't seem to quick to do that.....Just look at the vote to remove £30 a week from disabled people already deemed unfit to work by their own agency; a fair few Tory MP's had already campaigned for disabled people's rights but the all felt obliged to vote in favour of this.....the scumbags but yet all it seems to me and, as you put it, us younger Labour supporters who have never had the chance to see an "actual" Labour party and even if we did, the older generation of the parties "supporters" seem to develop sharper memories and essentially publically oppose the very party they supposedly support. This doesn't happen for the other party.

 

Also, this is interesting and yet very unsurprising....But hey, poor dodgy Dave...

 

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/13/benefit-or-tax-evasion-row-over-the-tories-targets

Edited 13 April, 2016 by Hockey_saint

[Batman]

it appears that the great big lefty - Emma Watson - has been 'avoiding' tax

Edited 14 May, 2016 by Batman

[whelk]

it appears that the great big lefty - Emma Watson - has been 'avoiding' tax

 

By calling her a grade big lefty you mean she speaks out about feminism and cares about the world.

[OldNick]

By calling her a grade big lefty you mean she speaks out about feminism and cares about the world.[/quote........

[buctootim]

it appears that the great big lefty - Emma Watson - has been 'avoiding' tax

 

Actually it appears she hast and has paid UK total in full. Hth.