what is lowe getting out of being here?

[SaintRobbie]

Obviously not, as one of the Undead.

 

Really, what does it matter?

 

It doesnt was just wondering what people thought. If he's really that arrogant he would, if he is a human being perhaps he doesnt.

 

Either way, its hardly surprising Mrs Lowe doesnt want him to work here.

[SaintRobbie]

Before we eventually go into Administration Lowe will quit, it would not look good on his Cv as being in control in going into Administration

 

That's probably right. And he'll hand over 5 mins beforehand to Crouch, just to blame him some more.

[sadoldgit]

It doesnt was just wondering what people thought. If he's really that arrogant he would, if he is a human being perhaps he doesnt.

 

Either way, its hardly surprising Mrs Lowe doesnt want him to work here.

 

Well, if he does or doesn't, anyone would have to have really thick skin to take on a job like this.

 

As for his other half, I wonder how any wife deals with the fact that their hubby goes of to work and gets called a w*nker day in day out.

[Fan The Flames]

Great post that. Bit of a slog to read through so i'm sure that some that should won't bother reading it but well worth it.

 

Worthy of a Saints Web story on the main site with a little work i'd say...

 

I read it and its utter crap, FC talks about Lowes inivations but fails to mention any, talks of recent success but what about the early 80's we were in the top flight before Lowe came along (and out of it when he left). He claims Lowe gets nothing but abuse, on here yes, but generally the Saints fans have been restrained, I could go on.

 

It's a long apologist rant without any substance and about as balanced as a drunk with an inner ear problem.

 

Sorry but it adds nothing to the debate.

[ghq]

Frank's Cousin has put forward a well constructed point of view. I'm not in total agreement with him, but really am impressed with the standard of replies it has brought forth. Well done to Frank and those who replied in a studied manner and raised the level of this thread above the norm.

[Mole]

I think Frank's post sucks.

 

Its a (very) long-winded attempt in trying to portray Lowe as a victime of circumstance, rather than the chief architect of the club's downfall.

 

He glosses over Lowe's contribution with a sentence, and uses a paragraph for excuses/justification..

 

Cheers for the summary Alpine as i can never be bothered to read Franks posts.

[Mole]

I am not the least bit ashamed of myself and why should I be? The management team you talk of nearly spent us into administration and we only managed to stay up on the last day of the season. I would hardly say it was a "damn fine management team".

You really need to get past this strang obsessiveness and try and look at things objectively for a change Stanley.

 

You are clueless SOG. Crouch was in charge for 5 months, but don't let facts get in the way of your Lowe propaganda. You and the rest of Ruperts rat pack are looking more and more wacky every day.

[Frank's cousin]

I dont expect agreemet but dismissing opinion without even reading or providing informed response is exactly what I was alluding to about the divisions in the fan base....

 

UP states quite correctly in my humble opinion that judgement should be based on results - to which I agree. However, with football there are so many variables that contribute to the success or failure of a strategy. Therefore it is in many cases difficult to predict 100% the outcome of particular approaches - sure if you appoint an untried manager the likelyhood is of failure, but that is 100% guarranteed depending on the quality of the squad, the support from the coaching staff, morale and form and luck - sometimes you can get lucky.... alternatively, there is no guarrantee of success even with proven managers or players brought in as we see all the time....

 

Its been raised as to when you consider that someone has made TOO many mistakes, despite it not being intentional that thus determines that they are no longer suitable for the job and that drastic change is necessary. - Well that does depend on your own threshold as to whether you believe that the lack of success is only down to the decison itself and thus who made it or whether its the outside circumstances that also played a major role in this.

 

An example is obviously cash flow - can you blame a club for selling players if they need the income? If results go against you, as a result of squad depletion, do you then blame the manager,the board or the financial problems, for bad results or is it the players whose morale is low because of the sales?

 

Sure its easy to see these things as Black and White and determine that its where we are now that counts and that the current regime has to go - the assumption that there is no way out of this hole unless they all go. Now I dont think anyone would argue against the fact;

 

1. the current regime is not the only way out of this

2. the current regime have had enough chances at getting it right and constantly repeated the 'same' mistakes' so should go

3. And I can also fully appreciate the argument that even if not totally fair, the current regime will forever be tarnished and found guilty of ALL the failures and thus the source of division and thus should go simply so we can move forward.

 

However, we also have to be practical about it. At present no one has come forward to stake a claim and take the risk to deliver us from this mess - only Lowe has come back to save his investment for sure, but if we really expect someone come in who genuinely loves the club, surely the better position we are in finacially the better?

 

Surely as fans its thus in our interests to get as many to games as possible, help in the darkest hour so we survive, have a bit of cash to keep the bank happy and thus be more attractive to anyone who cares about the club?

 

See this is the problem, there are many posters who just say FOff Lowe - fine, fair enough, but what will change if there is simply another boardroom shuffle? What would change now with a manager change who has no revenue to change the squad?

 

You have to face facts - Lowe is NOT going to relinquish control of his investment whilst we are in this precarious state, he obviously believes he stands the best chance of saving it - something that is INTRINSICALLY linked to the success of the club. What I cant believe is that anyone would think that its worth admin or worse just to get rid - yet being realistic, without a buyer making a decent offer, that is the ONLY way he will go, BUT ITS NOT the answer for SFC - If need be grit your teeth and get to the game and get the cash comming back in.

 

Just to reinterate for those who still fail to see it, I have NO loyalty to Lowe, I have seen and do see the postive rational in the strategies but also acknowledge many have failed - I also question some of his decisions, I just want to see us avoid admin and relegation by whatever means. BUT I do stand by the fact that as a fanbase as a whole, we have not looked at the strategies and tactics employed by Lowe fairly and judged them purely on their merits - too often some have judged these purely on the grounds of who was making the decision - we are also very keen to put all the ones that turned out OK, Hoddle, Strachan, etc down to luck rather than judgement - which is fair enough, but you also then need to apply the SAME evaluation criteria to those that have not worked, and acknowledge the parts played by all the other variables.

 

I guess whether you believe he deserves to be treated fairly will dictate your view on this, but for me anyway, what he 'deserves' is irrelevent to the principle.

[Frank's cousin]

Sure if you appoint an untried manager the likelyhood is of failure' date=' but that is NOT 100% guarranteed depending on the quality of the squad, the support from the coaching staff, morale and form and luck - sometimes you can get lucky.... alternatively, there is no guarrantee of success even with proven managers or players brought in as we see all the time.... .[/quote']

 

Sorry the above should read.

 

In addition someone no doubt UP ;-) will point out that is you believe that a strategy is LIKELY to result in failure - eg appointing an untried manager etc then you must be pretty feckin daft to to it - maybe once is enough, but 3 times?

 

I can see thuis argument - but with Gray and Wigley, there is some logic to providing loyal and developiing coaches with opportunity and given our resources they are also naturally perhaps better VFM? So why did LOwe do the same again with JP? Sure, cant argue against that, why has he not learbned from precvious mistakes etc? But surely Crouch did the same with Pearson, but was just lucky?

 

And surely, the decison to appoint Redknap was seen by many outside the club as a masterstroke to avoid relegation, but everyone was forgetting Harry's need to spend to make any significant change....

 

I was very positive and hopeful at the start of the season that JP and that youth strategy would see us with just enough to survive this year and then build on the experience the kids had gained next season... I knew it would be tough, but perhaps exciting to see kids playing a pssing game - I also acknowledge that we need to change something VERY soon to avoid the drop at all costs - but I simply dont know wht given we have no money to change the squad - and would be dissapointed not to see how this squad could fair next year with a years experience under their belt....

[Scudamore]

Cheers for the summary Alpine as i can never be bothered to read Franks posts.

 

Hurts your finger?

[Weston Saint]

Hurts your finger?

Classic :smt043

[slickmick]

Frank,

Although I see your logic, what if the problem is unseen by us as fans.

With some of the quotes coming from players recently its starting to sound as if Lowe has lost all respect from some quaters, maybe Jan aswell ?

Surely that would have a big factor in wether he should remain at the helm or not. A happy work place and all that.

Although it would be a gamble replacing the manager and Lowe, surely its more of a gamble to keep them considering we are at the bottom of the table ?

[MrMojoRisin]

I think personally that he is waiting for us to go into administration, so that when the auditors start selling our assets he and that snake wilde can get their greedy little mitts on Jacksons farm to start their building and electrical projects of which they both have vested interests in.

[Frank's cousin]

Slick - Please dont get me wrong - this whole debate needs to be seperate really - If the question was purely about what is best for SFC the answer would unequivically be a new regime and managerial set up that has the experience and and importantly trust and backing of fans to get us out of the mess we are in and the financial clout to see us stabalise and then progress - and whatever some may think I agree this would not include any of the previous or current incumbants. As many more rewasonable posters have argued, whatever the pros and cons, successes and failures or the fairness of it Lowe's not that man. I have argued that ther have been positives and in the interests of fairnes tried to reason that the decisons made do have a logic to them, that was all.

 

However we dont have that luxury at present - Lowe will only be gone by someone offering a fair and reasonable price for his shares, or admin and liquidation. And at this time without the fionancial backing of fans admin looks more likely and sadly that is not something we are likley to recover from quickly, whoever tries to pick up what is left from the ashes.

 

I can appreciate that some feel it would be a necessary evil to go backwards to go forwards, but my biggest fear is if we go backwards we will just keep going in that direction - and thus our best chance of avoiding this is probably having someone at the helm who just ahs too much personal investment to lose? Its for me a definite case of the club being nothing without its fans. We are the only ones that can effect the financial fortunes at present by turning up and doing our bit....

 

Mojo - I do think there is possibly something on what you say, but I do not know enough about the convulted ownership of the Ltd companies under the holding PLC and what the admin legalities would mean for the different assets held under the different ltd companies to know what is fact and what is speculation so its a very dangerous place to go.... I know Wilde would certainly ideally entertain the idea of ommercial property development - although he would perhaps argue that this would provide revenue for the club - but I guess the current climate does not make such property speculation a viable option to dig us out the hole. I would have no problem with the PLC utilizing assets to generate non footballing revenue that then went back into the club - I think in this current football climate clubs need to exploit every possible revenue generating source available to them, but there is so much suspicion of Lowe and Wilde, I can see the posts now of 'lining pockets' greed etc which would not help progress. Its also about proportion - If wilde and Lowe expolited jacksons farm and made 2 mil each but it generated 26 mil for the club, I could live with that. If they exploited it made 10 mil each with only 10 mil for teh club its suddenly a different matter - but we do need to be realistic.

 

The whole point of my posts are not about expecting to change folks minds on Lowe, but to point out that I simply cant hate a bloke I dont know, for maing mistakes - mistakes that although they have had a very negative effect on the club by contributing to our current woes, were none the less based on some logic - I would guess that many more would perhaps empathise with this had Lowe's public personna not come across as so arrogant or egotistical, something that is kind irrelevent to me.

[Snowballs2]

Frank I think one of your problems is that you are unable to be consise, therefore many of us cannot be arsed to read them. The fact is you either Love/ like/respect/ or hate Lowe and Wilde or you have no feelings about the guys.

After 3 poor managerial choices you would think that the guy would have no friends left, especially since he screwed the club up before. What really annoys me is that Crouch after only 5 months in charge seems to be tarred with the same brush, and many wrongly associate Crouch with bringing in the failed Execs.

[Secret Site Agent]

Waht is he doing here

 

HIS REVENGE

[Channon's Sideburns]

I dont expect agreemet but dismissing opinion without even reading or providing informed response is exactly what I was alluding to about the divisions in the fan base....

 

UP states quite correctly in my humble opinion that judgement should be based on results - to which I agree. However, with football there are so many variables that contribute to the success or failure of a strategy. Therefore it is in many cases difficult to predict 100% the outcome of particular approaches - sure if you appoint an untried manager the likelyhood is of failure, but that is 100% guarranteed depending on the quality of the squad, the support from the coaching staff, morale and form and luck - sometimes you can get lucky.... alternatively, there is no guarrantee of success even with proven managers or players brought in as we see all the time....

 

Its been raised as to when you consider that someone has made TOO many mistakes, despite it not being intentional that thus determines that they are no longer suitable for the job and that drastic change is necessary. - Well that does depend on your own threshold as to whether you believe that the lack of success is only down to the decison itself and thus who made it or whether its the outside circumstances that also played a major role in this.

 

An example is obviously cash flow - can you blame a club for selling players if they need the income? If results go against you, as a result of squad depletion, do you then blame the manager,the board or the financial problems, for bad results or is it the players whose morale is low because of the sales?

 

Sure its easy to see these things as Black and White and determine that its where we are now that counts and that the current regime has to go - the assumption that there is no way out of this hole unless they all go. Now I dont think anyone would argue against the fact;

 

1. the current regime is not the only way out of this

2. the current regime have had enough chances at getting it right and constantly repeated the 'same' mistakes' so should go

3. And I can also fully appreciate the argument that even if not totally fair, the current regime will forever be tarnished and found guilty of ALL the failures and thus the source of division and thus should go simply so we can move forward.

 

However, we also have to be practical about it. At present no one has come forward to stake a claim and take the risk to deliver us from this mess - only Lowe has come back to save his investment for sure, but if we really expect someone come in who genuinely loves the club, surely the better position we are in finacially the better?

 

Surely as fans its thus in our interests to get as many to games as possible, help in the darkest hour so we survive, have a bit of cash to keep the bank happy and thus be more attractive to anyone who cares about the club?

 

See this is the problem, there are many posters who just say FOff Lowe - fine, fair enough, but what will change if there is simply another boardroom shuffle? What would change now with a manager change who has no revenue to change the squad?

 

You have to face facts - Lowe is NOT going to relinquish control of his investment whilst we are in this precarious state, he obviously believes he stands the best chance of saving it - something that is INTRINSICALLY linked to the success of the club. What I cant believe is that anyone would think that its worth admin or worse just to get rid - yet being realistic, without a buyer making a decent offer, that is the ONLY way he will go, BUT ITS NOT the answer for SFC - If need be grit your teeth and get to the game and get the cash comming back in.

 

Just to reinterate for those who still fail to see it, I have NO loyalty to Lowe, I have seen and do see the postive rational in the strategies but also acknowledge many have failed - I also question some of his decisions, I just want to see us avoid admin and relegation by whatever means. BUT I do stand by the fact that as a fanbase as a whole, we have not looked at the strategies and tactics employed by Lowe fairly and judged them purely on their merits - too often some have judged these purely on the grounds of who was making the decision - we are also very keen to put all the ones that turned out OK, Hoddle, Strachan, etc down to luck rather than judgement - which is fair enough, but you also then need to apply the SAME evaluation criteria to those that have not worked, and acknowledge the parts played by all the other variables.

 

I guess whether you believe he deserves to be treated fairly will dictate your view on this, but for me anyway, what he 'deserves' is irrelevent to the principle.

 

 

FC, appreciate your piece on this, however I think for many fans who declare that they want Lowe out, they are intelligent to know that there may not be some easily identifiable replacements....

 

However, my biggest gripe about the real Lowe Apologists (I call them deluded!!) on here and on the Echo (Derek from Holbury etc) is that they say he is the best option - JUST BECAUSE THEY KNOW OF NO ALTERNATIVE!!

 

They believe everything the OS says, everything the Echo has been posted...regardless of Lowe's history.

 

I just wish more of them would open their minds a little and log on here once in a while.

[Frank's cousin]

FC, appreciate your piece on this, however I think for many fans who declare that they want Lowe out, they are intelligent to know that there may not be some easily identifiable replacements....

 

However, my biggest gripe about the real Lowe Apologists (I call them deluded!!) on here and on the Echo (Derek from Holbury etc) is that they say he is the best option - JUST BECAUSE THEY KNOW OF NO ALTERNATIVE!!

 

They believe everything the OS says, everything the Echo has been posted...regardless of Lowe's history.

 

I just wish more of them would open their minds a little and log on here once in a while.

 

 

Open Minds! ;-) One of the reasons so many of us are so stubborn in our views is probably why we are football fans - by our very nature passionate and fiercely loyal and thus its in our nature to be stubborn! ;-)

 

I think blind support or hate from BOTH side is wrong and any regime/board worth it salt must be able to stand up to criticism and defend its position with logical and intelligent argument - not default to insult and innuendo and spin - which would be one of my biggest criticisms of Lowe - the old 'no point in telling you the truth as you are too dim to understand and refuse to listen anyway' arrogance - which he is reknowned for, but to be a little fair, there has /is a vocal MINORITY who have never listended to the the rationale, but simply never liked him since the reverse takeover and have wanted nothing more than to get rid based on petty prejudice or politics.... trouble is, because of this, Lowe in error treats all criticism the same - or so it appears in the media. And so has alienated not only the tint minority who simply ahd it in for him, but also many intelligent fans whose criticisms are VALID and quite rightly as the 'customers' who provide the lions share of revenue to the club believe they have a right to be heard with patience and respect....I do understand these points.

 

I guess in my mind 0- and the hardest thing for me me to express (sorry Snowballs, thats why I guess it takes 500 words not 5 ;-)) is that I have always looked at the rationale of the stragegies first - I do believe its right for clubs to live within their means - in fact it should be mandatory (which would even the playing field in the game) - so I have supported that approach and prudent approach to spending - I like te idea of developing our own youth talent and supported te academy investment. I liked the idea of exploring alternative revenue streams that when profitable made a contribution to the club etc - all logical stuff IMHO. I loved the the fact that we finally managed to move to a larger ground, givening more fans the chance to see the side regularly - Its these things that I have supported and not the individual. The flip side being that I can also appreciated the mistakes made and have winced when once again LOwe has aliented more fans by some rash, stupid gaff or arrogant comment - when he has simplydismissed criticism from very knowledgeable and experience folk - so yes I can understand the desire for change, but that surely does not undermine the positives or logic of some of the ideas?

 

But what now? I think most are in agreement, we want change for good, for a future that unites etc. But for some of us we also believe we MUST avoid administration and relegation as a priority. Its therefore we give the rallying call to fill the stadium, and support the team and JP - OK he is making errors in our opinion, the side is struggling and poor, he is not considered teh best man for the job etc - BUT he is in that job for now and the only positive contribution we can make is to support - It surely is the mark of the best fanbase if you support despite what is thrown at you and can stand up and be counted when th side is struggling most? We get better gates we get better support, a better vibe and more cash to help fight off admin - we survive and can then reflect and see who comes forward to take us forward.... but I cant support simply letting the club die in the hope taht somethng better will spring from the ahes without Lowe - it simply does not make sense to me.

[Channon's Sideburns]

Appreciate that FC, but for me it is a double-edged sword, as for many fans.

 

a) Do you still go, week in week out, regardless of performances to support the team and therefore allow Lowe et al claim that the fans approve?

 

b) Make a stand, although you would like to go, in order to show that you do not support the regime....

 

Tough decision.

[John Smith]

I guess in my mind 0- and the hardest thing for me me to express (sorry Snowballs, thats why I guess it takes 500 words not 5 ;-)) is that I have always looked at the rationale of the stragegies first - I do believe its right for clubs to live within their means - in fact it should be mandatory (which would even the playing field in the game) - so I have supported that approach and prudent approach to spending - I like te idea of developing our own youth talent and supported te academy investment. I liked the idea of exploring alternative revenue streams that when profitable made a contribution to the club etc - all logical stuff IMHO. I loved the the fact that we finally managed to move to a larger ground, givening more fans the chance to see the side regularly - Its these things that I have supported and not the individual. The flip side being that I can also appreciated the mistakes made and have winced when once again LOwe has aliented more fans by some rash, stupid gaff or arrogant comment - when he has simplydismissed criticism from very knowledgeable and experience folk - so yes I can understand the desire for change, but that surely does not undermine the positives or logic of some of the ideas?

 

 

Hi Frank, I read all your post, but wanted to comment, I agree largely with this paragraph, in fact I think it is why you are easier to debate with. However, the main point we disagree on is your last sentence regarding the desire for change, particularly this part - "but that surely does not undermine the positives or logic of some of the ideas?" - And I would argue that 'because' of the above issues, I would say "and so, this turned my head and made me scrutinise the issues more fully and found that going all the way back to the reverse takeover, Lowe has been on the middle of all of the 'issues' at SFC, therefore it is time for change"

 

This, plus my idea of what Lowe really wants to achieve, got me thinking. I think that Lowe has a different plan (and always has), that football is a business and he will treat it like a business. Not news to most, I also think that the academy was a part of that business. Now, the academy is a major part of that plan and the current business, because it is largely through this academy that the money, aside from matchday ticket sales, will come from. Again, not news. However, examining this a little further, I came to the following conclusions.

 

Let's assume Lowe is here for the business, what is the product? For me, and probably most fans, it is 'the football'. But would Lowe define the product as the football. I think not, I think Lowe would have broken this down more tangibly, ie, 'the product' is in fact, the players. The players are the only commodity in the business (now) that can be bought or sold. The fans, if treated, marketed, in the right way, will continue to be loyal and a guarenteed income stream. And this is where I think Lowe's problems are. I don;t think Lowe understands what we expect, as customers, in order to remain loyal. Let me try to draw and analogy -

 

If I was Chairman of a Theatre, where the show produced caused the customers to turn up, it would largely be down to the cast as to the draw of the crowds. Some customers would turn up regardless of the cast, because they were a fan of the show and enjoyed watching the show regardless of cast, and enjoyed comparing the cast. These would be the loyal customers. The product would be the show as you cannot bye or sell the cast. However, with football, it is the cast that is the product and the football (the show) is the draw for the customer. This is because we don't care who is performing, like in showbiz, as long as they are loyal and fully comitted to the cause, and give 100%all the time. Maybe this is why Lowe missed the point with Hoddle, yeah, sure most would now overlook his disloyalty from back then, but, when he was proposed to return, it was all still too raw for many. This wouldn't be the case with the show, so much, because few would think an actor or Producer going off to produce another show, as disloyal.

 

In summary, maybe, the reason Lowe doesn't get it right, when it comes to football, is that he still doesn't get it. Sure, we'd all love a great academy whereby International stars are born year in year out, but we'd actually like to see them stay here and play for us for a bit. We don't rationally look at the value of producing them to a given standard and then the 'profit' we make on selling that potential for a damn sight more than it actually cost us. many of us like to see some sort of consistency in our first teamers (appearance wise I mean, although I would like to see this reflected in ability also), as this would go someway to providing proof of their loyalty. Like Andrew Surman, like Kelvin Davis, stay here for a few years and play well, and in some cases, improve, do better and inspire, respect to KD for doing this.

 

On the back of this, I believe that Lowe cannot comprehend his 'customers' loyalty to the product? I believe he felt that through clever PR, spin and marketing, football fans are a sturdy bunch that take little influencing to turn up week after week.

 

And so, I am currently wondering if I have been a bit 'harsh' on Lowe, because he still, sadly, just doesn't get it! He still sticks to his old principals, has tried different ways of appealing to his customers - 'total football', academy players, home grown talent and play-off push (even though this was stacked against us) - but falls short because 'he just doesn't get it'! And I can understand why, to some respect. Even if you have football running through your veins, I think that you would find it difficult to explain what is the attraction about it, and then find 20,000 other likewise footballing people that totally agree with you 100%, crikey, we struggle on here, a posting membership of a few hundred, to agree on anything. Therefore, how can I expect someone who has never denied, not being an avid football fan before he arrived, to understand what few agree about? Could Lowe ever fully understand the 'concept' of being a lifelong Supporter? Fully comprehend why someone would turn up week in, week out, come rain, hail or snow, regardless of ability to win, in order to shout vocal support and pay for that privilege? Some would begin to understand, some would begin to comprehend, some would even fall in love with football themselves, but not Lowe, I'm afraid. I don;t think Lowe will EVER 'get it'. Add that to the fact that he keeps missing 'it' by some distance, I think he needs to go.

[Frank's cousin]

Interesting thoughts John, but I also think we are over complicating things somewhat - When living in Oxfordshire a few years back, I had a mate who actually worked for Lowe at his country pad - a man U fan (typical ;-)) who had had direct conversations about football with Lowe. His opinion was that Lowe had stated he had grown to be a fan, said it was impossible not to be drawn in and immersed in it - that one of his proudest moments was Cardiff 03, and the sea of yellow and the way we were praised in the press etc, but that often being a fan was very much at odds with what he felt was necessary from a business perspective.... I do think he is human, and a fan to some extent.

 

Does he think we are ALL stupid sheep that you can treat like crap and they still come back? NO, does he believe there are SOME fans that are stupid? Probably by the way he reacts to the criticism from certain circles. Would he get out now if he could? I do believe he would get out now if he could guarantee his own and his backers their money back - its for this reason he stays, because he would rather look after his own cash than have someone else do it. And I do think a lot has to do with ego and pride. Anyone as arrogant as Rupert with have pride in abundance - I guess there is Nothing he would like more than to stick two fingers to the 'Lunatic Fringe' as we sore up the premier league - I honestly believe he thinks he can deliver this. But the biggest part of the problem is that the majority of fans don’t believe he can, don’t agree he has the right strategy etc and to date the results seem to justify the fans concerns - in addition, most have lost any small amount of trust they had as they perceive that the same mistakes are being made again....

 

My take previously was that in many cases these 'mistakes' were if not directly the result of, but certainly effected by the finance - both when in the prem and now. I have no doubt that Lowe would love to sign a 25 mil player and have morinho managing saints if money was no object he would spend - his ego would demand it, but in the real world his approach has been prudence, and I guess that its this that sits at odd with most fans views - after all we believe its because of this we are in this mess - simple really.

 

What next? NO crystal ball I'm afraid, just hope, and have faith that JP can turn it around, that Saga will get goals again as last season, and we survive etc... Lowe unveils a major investor and we get promoted next season?.... well we can all dream cant we? ;-)

[Professor]

As always, too many comments based on a total lack of knowledge, facts and understanding and too many people displaying nothing more than blind predudice. Lowe is an experienced football chairmen, one of the most experienced in the Championship. This club has been a major part of his life for over ten years. He has also continued to retain his interest in the club in the face of considerable abuse and unpleasantness. It is surprising that he does carry on, but if he walked away, whilst there is no one in a position to replace him, the club would be worse off, not better.

[John B]

As always, too many comments based on a total lack of knowledge, facts and understanding and too many people displaying nothing more than blind predudice. Lowe is an experienced football chairmen, one of the most experienced in the Championship. This club has been a major part of his life for over ten years. He has also continued to retain his interest in the club in the face of considerable abuse and unpleasantness. It is surprising that he does carry on, but if he walked away, whilst there is no one in a position to replace him, the club would be worse off, not better.

 

 

'Absolute Rubbish Lowe is a greedy parasite' is that the sort of mentality that you are talking about

 

Then I agree with most of your posts anyway

 

Lowe makes are wrong ones others right

[saint1977]

As always, too many comments based on a total lack of knowledge, facts and understanding and too many people displaying nothing more than blind predudice. Lowe is an experienced football chairmen, one of the most experienced in the Championship. This club has been a major part of his life for over ten years. He has also continued to retain his interest in the club in the face of considerable abuse and unpleasantness. It is surprising that he does carry on, but if he walked away, whilst there is no one in a position to replace him, the club would be worse off, not better.

 

I'm asking an open question here without an angle or any animosity but what prejudice is Rupert suffering from? I'm not convinced that the old Harrow/public school thing is an issue, I think that subsided some time in the late 1990s. Yes, he is experienced so he shouldn't still be experimenting with different structures after 12 years of experience, particularly in a time of crisis don't you think? As a CEO, he shouldn't have made the same mistake twice with Gray/Wigley and the focus should have been getting back up in 2005/06 or at least giving it a good go instead of adding an overhead that wasn't right for a newly-demoted club. That IMO is not prejudice but an honest appraisal of why I don't believe Rupert is the right CEO. I've never met the man so I cannot tell you about him as a person. If he is a Saints fan, best of luck to him and hopefully once the major shareholders have moved on he'll feel comfortable to come to games as a guest. I will point out that a lot of Senior Managers/CEOs in a lot of organisations also put in long service but you have to still perform and this has been Rupert's problem since 2004.

[saint1977]

'Absolute Rubbish Lowe is a greedy parasite' is that the sort of mentality that you are talking about

 

Then I agree with most of your posts anyway

 

Lowe makes are wrong ones others right

 

I don't agree with the posts that say he is an asset stripper etc - I think he comes across as being an upright businessman but I just feel his key decisions have been ineffective for too long even if I have trusted him more than Askham or Wiseman say. I don't think he's come back to ruin SFC - life's too short and I think he has been trying to salvage an investment which is understandable but I was disappointed by that April statement I heard on Radio Solent driving through Hants criticising Nigel Pearson's appointment at a time when we were fighting the drop. People do need to bear in mind that loyalty is a two-way street - Rupert can't have a go at people now when he was sniping from the outside at a time of crisis.

[Channon's Sideburns]

As always, too many comments based on a total lack of knowledge, facts and understanding and too many people displaying nothing more than blind predudice. Lowe is an experienced football chairmen, one of the most experienced in the Championship. This club has been a major part of his life for over ten years. He has also continued to retain his interest in the club in the face of considerable abuse and unpleasantness. It is surprising that he does carry on, but if he walked away, whilst there is no one in a position to replace him, the club would be worse off, not better.

 

Hmmm...Radio Solent Interview November 2007...

 

'I have no interest in returning to the club in any capacity'

 

It is surprising that there still some sycophants on here who think he is going to turn this around....

[pfc123]

As an outsider, to us it looks like he's desperate to stave off administration because his shares will become worthless, even though in many ways administration would be the best thing for you. Ok, so you take a 10 point hit and go down. So what? If you wipe out the debt at the same time you've got a chance to rebuild. As it stands it's absolutely killing you.......

[um pahars]

My take previously was that in many cases these 'mistakes' were if not directly the result of' date=' but certainly effected by the finance - both when in the prem and now.[/quote']

 

I'm sorry Frank but I don't think that you can blame the lack of money on the poor decisions, many of which are major issues.

 

Certainly money (lack of it or even too much dosh) sets the context for the decisions you have to make, but that doesn't excuse poor decisions.

 

Of course the lack of money (along with lack of prestige, glamour & status) precludes us from hiring the top managers & players, but even with the finances available to us, we still have to make the right choices.

 

Changes had to be made this summer to the playing side (for both footballing and financial reasons), everyone accepts that, but the overhaul that he undertook, starting with the sacking of Pearson is something that is now being found wanting.

 

Very few supporters, if any, believe that Lowe isn't trying his best to get this right, but I do think that many believe that he is not getting it right, or is able to get it right.

 

A subtle but massive difference.

 

Just because he has a financial interest from this working does not mean he is the best person to be running this Club.

[rocknrollman no2]

As always, too many comments based on a total lack of knowledge, facts and understanding and too many people displaying nothing more than blind predudice. Lowe is an experienced football chairmen, one of the most experienced in the Championship. This club has been a major part of his life for over ten years. He has also continued to retain his interest in the club in the face of considerable abuse and unpleasantness. It is surprising that he does carry on, but if he walked away, whilst there is no one in a position to replace him, the club would be worse off, not better.

 

Regardless of inside knowledge or not,i think most fans judge Lowe by his results and ability to learn from past mistakes.

So far it looks like he hasnt learnt a thing and seems to ignore the blatantly obvious when it comes to building a sucessful football team.

You say Professor that hes the most experienced Chairman in the Champoinship.

I would say hes the most naive at best and most arrogant at worst.

[Frank's cousin]

Just because he has a financial interest from this working does not mean he is the best person to be running this Club.

 

Which I have never said he was - The point we have to try and remember is that He is Currently in charge - and at this moment in time I believe its more imprtant that we support by attending and helping financially to avoid the drop and admin, as thats all we can realistically do. Protesting, staying away etc is everyones right, but they do sod all in helping the club whatever folk feel about it maybe having an effect on Lowe's future.

[dubai_phil]

Once upon a time I was promoted to my first proper management role. I was sent on a "managing people for beginners course". The very FIRST thing we learnt became my mantra and led to me having a successful career, a happy workforce and over achieving annual targets for more than ten years.

 

That magic line was simple - "What do YOU propose?".

 

Now, the fundamental issue that I see at this time with Rupert is that while he is exeperienced, he may have become a fan, and he may well be the only person capable of taking on the dirty jobs that cutting out losses entails, I am willing to guess that at no time has he used that phrase with anybody in the football club.

 

Now when you consider that it is impossible for a leader to know every detail about every job, project or customer in a large business organisation, it must be equally so in a large football club. My success was to listen to experts and their opinion, use that opinion along with any other knowledge I may have and come up with a decision or a strategy.

 

What worries me is that when he came back I worried we were taking one risk too many with the cut-backs, the kids and the management choices. So far it is not working well enough to save our club.

 

So Lowe is the only experienced candidate who has "stood up" to do the job, but I feel that the PERCEIVED inability to take all possible avenues of experience and ideas when making strategic decisions at the club may be the failing that could kill us.

 

FWIW this is also the issue I have at the moment with the protests, there still isn't a concrete proposal that the fans including myself could actually get behind.

 

Lowe Out, Recession Go Away, MRSA to be solved, Climate Change to be stopped, yep I agree with all of them, and happy to go on a march, but not seen anything that yet comes across as a viable strategy - eg no point one person stopping using electricity to save the planet if 6million people in China et al just keep making things worse by using what you saved.

 

Not saying it is hopeless, just not YET viable