Amesbury Saint Posted 6 January, 2009 Posted 6 January, 2009 He's got about £500,000 tied up in shares (worth about £330,000 at present). He came back to stop those shares becoming worthless. realistically what are they worth now?
lordswoodsaints Posted 6 January, 2009 Author Posted 6 January, 2009 I agree with CB Fry. But of course the main point is that if the others had not made such a pig's ear of things after he left he would not be back now, would he! too true,lowe took advantage of the amateur shenanigans going on between wilde,crouch and the rest of the hangers on and made his move. they let him back without a fight and the fighting now between lowe and crouch should have been done back then.
buctootim Posted 6 January, 2009 Posted 6 January, 2009 (edited) exactly what i think,he is not here for the money,well not in the short term anyway, he must be here to prove everybody wrong and try and put things right,only then will he reap the rewards........but it looks very unlikely that this will happen,in fact i am sure it wont. lowe obviously thinks it will happen and that is why he is blindly,foolishly and stubbornly clinging onto his plan. it should just be a matter of time before he realises that it cannot go on as it is,but he will hold on until it is too late,we will be virtually relegated and he will probably just walk away. I think its as simple as wanting to prove people wrong. Lowe is an innovator / maverick / whatever. He has rarely done things the conservative orthodox way of most football Chairmen. This means in the fan's eyes, rightly, he is much more personally closely associated with the outcomes of decisions made as Chairman. He has had very real successes but the overall verdict currently, where it really matters on the pitch, is of things not having worked out. I'd guess he just wants to right the club and prove his ideas. As mentioned above, if the other Chairman hadn't made such a hash of things he would never have got a second chance. Edited 6 January, 2009 by buctootim
Whitey Grandad Posted 6 January, 2009 Posted 6 January, 2009 I think he genuinely believes that he knows what is best for the club and himself, but he knows nothing about man-management, motivation, or what it takes to run a successful football club in the lower divisions where the income is almost entirely dependent on the supporters.
SoccerMom Posted 6 January, 2009 Posted 6 January, 2009 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder
Fan The Flames Posted 6 January, 2009 Posted 6 January, 2009 Its Mr Averages chance to play at being a business man. I think he believes he is ploughing a different furow, that one day will become the standard for provincial clubs. He's back this time to enact his plans undiluted, we are his experiment. I only hope we fully recover in my lifetime.
PAULACZT Posted 6 January, 2009 Posted 6 January, 2009 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder absolutely brilliant....sums the man up perfectly
fos1 Posted 6 January, 2009 Posted 6 January, 2009 Lowe has an EGO bigger then any other other person I have met in my life, the arrogance of the man at the AGM was beyond belief. Time has come to get of our bums and make our feelings known, at any other club in the country this would not be allowed to happen, action has to be taken before it is too late. I can remember the Branfoot days and these past few months have been much worse then that era, LOWE AND WILDE YOU ARE NO LONGER WELCOME AT SOUTHAMPTON FOOTBALL CLUB.
benjii Posted 6 January, 2009 Posted 6 January, 2009 "Lowe - Narcissistic personality disorder" banner anyone?
fos1 Posted 6 January, 2009 Posted 6 January, 2009 "Lowe - Narcissistic personality disorder" banner anyone? Thats funny because I walked out of the AGM and I said to Duncan Holly " I think Lowe needs to seek medical help the bloke is off his trolley "
PAULACZT Posted 6 January, 2009 Posted 6 January, 2009 Lowe has an EGO bigger then any other other person I have met in my life, the arrogance of the man at the AGM was beyond belief. Time has come to get of our bums and make our feelings known, at any other club in the country this would not be allowed to happen, action has to be taken before it is too late. I can remember the Branfoot days and these past few months have been much worse then that era, LOWE AND WILDE YOU ARE NO LONGER WELCOME AT SOUTHAMPTON FOOTBALL CLUB. Of all the long winded for OR against posts, in relation to dear Rupert, Soccermom has just cut and pasted perfection!! I dont think either side could put it any better...priceless \\:D/\\:D/
ghq Posted 6 January, 2009 Posted 6 January, 2009 There are an awful lot of reasons proffered for the actions and mind set of one Rupert Lowe. A few of them are a little far out, but I find myself agreeing with more and more of them posted on here. My opinion for what it's worth is, and it's only my opinion, that he knows he's losing money and is paying himself some sort of return by way of salarywhile hoping to salvage the club and prove what a brilliant incisive man of many parts he actually is. He has seen enough of the people in football over his time in the Premier, to know that they are all inferior to a man with his acumen, so it can't be too hard to run a successful professional football club. This will come to show what a clever incisive person he is and also put him in the limelight where his ego expects to be. In the event of failure, well look around folks. 'It's hard to soar with the eagles when surrounded by turkeys.' In short I don't have a clue what is going on in the button down mind of R Lowe, but am of the firm opinion that he has to go and have been for a lot of years. Yes, even back in the halcyon years!
ottery st mary Posted 6 January, 2009 Posted 6 January, 2009 There are an awful lot of reasons proffered for the actions and mind set of one Rupert Lowe. A few of them are a little far out, but I find myself agreeing with more and more of them posted on here. My opinion for what it's worth is, and it's only my opinion, that he knows he's losing money and is paying himself some sort of return by way of salarywhile hoping to salvage the club and prove what a brilliant incisive man of many parts he actually is. He has seen enough of the people in football over his time in the Premier, to know that they are all inferior to a man with his acumen, so it can't be too hard to run a successful professional football club. This will come to show what a clever incisive person he is and also put him in the limelight where his ego expects to be. In the event of failure, well look around folks. 'It's hard to soar with the eagles when surrounded by turkeys.' In short I don't have a clue what is going on in the button down mind of R Lowe, but am of the firm opinion that he has to go and have been for a lot of years. Yes, even back in the halcyon years! I like what you say, so much I have read it through three times...poor reader, really. I also like what soccermom turned up...my description is mentioned self-centredness (hope that spells right) Not me but Lowey. Whatever, we all think, excepting for his 6/7 flunkies on this forum (No disrespect, you Luvvies, Pixies and Agents of Rupert) and the fellow Directors under his spell, Lavender Hill Mob.....He certainly has something going wrong in that brain of his. Totally without care or compassion for our beloved Saints.
Wiltshire Saint Posted 6 January, 2009 Posted 6 January, 2009 I think he is abusing the younger players.
L1Minus10 Posted 6 January, 2009 Posted 6 January, 2009 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder That's him!!!
Mole Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 I agree with CB Fry. But of course the main point is that if the others had not made such a pig's ear of things after he left he would not be back now, would he! You seem to lose the plot more by the day. We all know Judas Wilde is completely clueless hence him appointing the execs to run the club, but under Leon Crouch and Lawrie McMenemy the mess was being sorted out and we had a damn fine management team under Nigel Pearson. The reason Lowe is back now is because of one man and one man only... Michael Wilde and the reason Wilde brought Lowe back was all about revenge. Wilde fooled a good many people, but as you well know he didn't fool me as i saw straight through him with the way he used Keith Legg and the Saints Trust. Leon Crouch on the other hand has never resorted to posting on message boards in disguise or using other people to fire the gun he loaded. Leon Crouch has also demonstrated his generosity with gestures such as the Ted Bates statue. Crouch may not have the tens of millions needed to bail us out, but with crouch you have a man who bleeds red and white just like everyone of us. Crouch is one of us and Crouch would put his hand in his pocket and be prepared to take a financial hit. Lowe and Wilde will never put SFC before themselves. Quite how you and all the other slithery Lowe supporters can knock him and support a man who is all about himself is disgraceful. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
dubai_phil Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 You seem to lose the plot more by the day. We all know Judas Wilde is completely clueless hence him appointing the execs to run the club, but under Leon Crouch and Lawrie McMenemy the mess was being sorted out and we had a damn fine management team under Nigel Pearson. The reason Lowe is back now is because of one man and one man only... Michael Wilde and the reason Wilde brought Lowe back was all about revenge. Wilde fooled a good many people, but as you well know he didn't fool me as i saw straight through him with the way he used Keith Legg and the Saints Trust. Leon Crouch on the other hand has never resorted to posting on message boards in disguise or using other people to fire the gun he loaded. Leon Crouch has also demonstrated his generosity with gestures such as the Ted Bates statue. Crouch may not have the tens of millions needed to bail us out, but with crouch you have a man who bleeds red and white just like everyone of us. Crouch is one of us and Crouch would put his hand in his pocket and be prepared to take a financial hit. Lowe and Wilde will never put SFC before themselves. Quite how you and all the other slithery Lowe supporters can knock him and support a man who is all about himself is disgraceful. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. Ah ha, Thanks Stanley for nailing your colours to the mast as Leon's PR manager. They are ALL as bad as each other mate, Leon made mistakes as well, so be careful you do not start to re-write history. They ALL have to go and ALL take their hangers on with them.
Frank's cousin Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 The rationale for change has been well argued by those who try and let facts dictate opinion rather than ignorance and prejudice - part of the reason for the so called 'divisions' in the fan base is not because there are those that 'worship' Lowe v those that hate him, but that many get fed up with the constant and perpetual use of OTT emotions, hate, factually inaccurate statements spread as gospel to undermine the truth and based on a long campaign that he ‘simply did not belong' - I guess its not a case of defending Lowe, but of defending his right to be in football and to challenge the old school - after all there is nothing wrong with being strong willed and wanting to be seen as innovative. The problem is that whatever has been tried or achieved or failed, because of the bitterness created in some fans eyes following the reverse takeover, and loud voices that never let it lie from the very start - there has never been unanimous support for any thing that has been tried, be it from mangers, fans, other board members or those shareholders 'associated' with the club - and Lowe's personality was never likely to overcome this hostility.. Especially amongst the fans. If we take Lowe out of the equation and think just a little about what has changed in the game and why some decisions where taken - open ones mind to new possibilities, its actually easy to see the logic to many of the ideas that are considered 'disasters' on here. Provincial clubs who have a local fan base only are drifting further and further from being able to mount or sustain any kind of challenge to the top half of the prem - the financial gaps just keep getting wider, and these clubs if they truly want to avoid relegation, need to invest heavily just to stand still - not so much a problem with a rich backer, but impossible to avoid huge debt accumulation without one - unless you have a good conveyor belt of talent coming through the youth system.... The problem then is of course how you satisfy the fans and managers you employ - as these groups have ambitions beyond what living within the clubs means can supply - certainly Lowe would never have been easy to work with, but manager turmoil will almost certainly have been contributed to by the FACT that we could not afford to hold onto the very best and build a quad around them, nor compete effectively in a transfer market which was spiraling out of control. - Yet managers like Hoddle and Strachan - did see the logic and understand the limitations - even if eventually they also felt that we could not match their ambition - we simply did not have the funds. So should we just give up and accept mid to lower table mediocrity? Naturally we would love that now and be more accepting of premiership status even if always looking over the shoulder, but lets be honest, 27 years of top flight and with some recent relative success, did massively increase our expectations, we felt it we were bigger than we were and any failure of the board to invest to match our ambition was bound to cause further negativity towards an already unpopular chairman. So what does Lowe do, accept that fate or try something different? He tries different things that he believes will help generate a competitive advantage - Radio stations and other commercial activity designed to improve our media presence and generate income long-term, advertise the corporate facilities (including the catering ;-) )to try and generate greater revenues and above develop and further invest in the academy and sports science to give us an edge where possible - all very laudable and rational - but to many fans seen as distractions and diversions of 'investing' in the first team - yet the combined annual net costs of these ventures would have only really bought us a Rory Delap.... and once again this sort of thing was ridiculed in the media by football old guard and the vocal fans heading the anti Lowe campaigns since the beginning of his tenure - yet since SMS opened we had suddenly 15000 extra 'new' supporters who could finally get to see regular games - fans whose first real experience of the club was a modern stadium and premiership football, some of whom saw this as a real positive of Lowe, leaving some of the older Dell boys feeling perhaps that part of the clubs soul had gone - and Lowe was to blame. The problem is that football IS so emotive for fans yet not so for everyone else involved - who see it as an industry be it SKY, the media, the players and agents and those involved in the commercial management of the clubs - so we tend to see any action that seems more commercially based in its foundation rather than rooted in the heart of the club. game and pitch as a serious affront to what the club and the game should be all about - and naturally we want someone to blame. NO one is saying that Lowe has not made terrible errors of judgment, that he is not a poor communicator, especially with fans who are quite literally the lifeblood of a club outside the premiership, no one is saying that he should not accept the responsibility for mistakes that were made that CONTRIBUTED to relegation (luck, form and players and managers need to take their share of that too), but the vitriol and abuse that is aimed at the bloke and EVERYTHING he has done is way disproportionate and indeed what some like myself have tried to defend, often unfair given the positive intention or rationale behind the original idea - (personally if SCW could have got the eye coach to educate our players to actually be aware of the RIGHT ball to play, it would have been worth the salary!) - the media love a villain and played to the fans need for this. Now we have a situation where we wonder what he is getting out of it? Well most of the theories have been discussed - if it was me, not sure I would put myself or family through the kind of infantile abuse where I am called a 'cancer' and folk are wishing I would die... its this sicko crap that makes an equal contribution in dividing fans - many simply don’t want top to support such OOT opinion even if they feel change would do the club some good. I for one will not stand beside someone protesting 'Lowe Out' - if the next words are FOAD... sorry just don’t think football warrants this. There is also the fact that if applying any logic it’s impossible not to acknowledge the positives that have happened during that time and I guess some of us want to defend that as well - its always easier to blame than to praise, especially if the current situation is dire. So what IS he getting out of it? Ego and belief he can make a difference? maybe? But TBH it will most likely be to save his investment and the value of his shares - again a commercial, greedy' reason to slate him again, but we should not forget that the ONLY we he will salvage that is by the club stabilizing and then progressing - something we are all desperate for. Finally as many have said, there are plenty of folk better equipped and more able to rescue us than Lowe, but right now NO ONE has come forward, no one else is willing to risk their reputation on figuring a away out of this mess and logic would surely dictate that maybe we are best served by someone who has a personal interest financially in getting it sorted, than simply an ego who wants the adulation of fans to satisfy it? Yup we would al love a new wealthy sugar daddy/owner that had real investment, but in the current climate that’s a pipe dream - yes, the situation is made worse by the current situation with JP and the lowly league position, but change will only happen if someone steps forward, not by wishing it or further undermining the finances by staying away.
Scudamore Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 What is lowe getting out of being here? Lot's of abuse...each to his own i guess...
del boy Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 Not if we were relegated on his watch, just when the Sky billions was coming on stream. Looks pretty stupid to me. Well, your point links RL's fortune's with those of Saints, so the corollary of that is that he is very keen to do everything he can to help Saints into the Premier League. Whether his decisions and behaviour actually help to achieve that is another issue. If he is still taking thousands from Saints however (as is alleged, again I don't know) then even at "pretty stupid" he is still cleverer than us - becasue we arent, and none of us seems capable of stopping him.
krissyboy31 Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 The way to go, without any significant outside investment coming in, would be to remove the current board. Get in a completely independent CEO. A representative of the 3 major shareholders, but none of the actual individuals (i.e. Lowe's rep could be Cowen). A representative of the remanining shareholding and replace the incompetent Jones with a professional Financial Director, one that actually directs the finances of the club. Pie in the sky? Well may be but at least it might start healing some of the rifts apparent in all of SFC's stakeholders, fans, employees and shareholders alike.
Scudamore Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 The rationale for change has been well argued by those who try and let facts dictate opinion rather than ignorance and prejudice - part of the reason for the so called 'divisions' in the fan base is not because there are those that 'worship' Lowe v those that hate him, but that many get fed up with the constant and perpetual use of OTT emotions, hate, factually inaccurate statements spread as gospel to undermine the truth and based on a long campaign that he ‘simply did not belong' - I guess its not a case of defending Lowe, but of defending his right to be in football and to challenge the old school - after all there is nothing wrong with being strong willed and wanting to be seen as innovative. [snip] Yup we would al love a new wealthy sugar daddy/owner that had real investment, but in the current climate that’s a pipe dream - yes, the situation is made worse by the current situation with JP and the lowly league position, but change will only happen if someone steps forward, not by wishing it or further undermining the finances by staying away. Great post that. Bit of a slog to read through so i'm sure that some that should won't bother reading it but well worth it. Worthy of a Saints Web story on the main site with a little work i'd say...
alpine_saint Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 I think Frank's post sucks. Its a (very) long-winded attempt in trying to portray Lowe as a victime of circumstance, rather than the chief architect of the club's downfall. He glosses over Lowe's contribution with a sentence, and uses a paragraph for excuses/justification..
Scudamore Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 I think Frank's post sucks. Its a (very) long-winded attempt in trying to portray Lowe as a victime of circumstance, rather than the chief architect of the club's downfall. He glosses over Lowe's contribution with a sentence, and uses a paragraph for excuses/justification.. How surprising...
alpine_saint Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 How surprising... As is your embracing of his post.
Scudamore Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 As is your embracing of his post. Yep. I should be ashamed of enjoying a balanced post.
WealdSaint Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 The way to go, without any significant outside investment coming in, would be to remove the current board. Get in a completely independent CEO. A representative of the 3 major shareholders, but none of the actual individuals (i.e. Lowe's rep could be Cowen). A representative of the remanining shareholding and replace the incompetent Jones with a professional Financial Director, one that actually directs the finances of the club. Pie in the sky? Well may be but at least it might start healing some of the rifts apparent in all of SFC's stakeholders, fans, employees and shareholders alike. I like the idea but did'nt our last lot of independent board members screw us?
Frank's cousin Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 I think Frank's post sucks. Its a (very) long-winded attempt in trying to portray Lowe as a victime of circumstance, rather than the chief architect of the club's downfall. He glosses over Lowe's contribution with a sentence, and uses a paragraph for excuses/justification.. Alps, see this the problem I have with you - This is not about portraying Lowe as anything, but about recognising that the choices made by the board were made in good faith and with reason - sure some failed and quite rightly criticism is due there, but its also about recognizing that as fans our 'divisions' on the Lowe debate are less to do with not recognizing his contribution to our 'downfall', but more in the way we have reacted to them.
Deano6 Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 I think he is abusing the younger players. Is this true?? If so then he should resign this instant (sure he won't tho). Just shows the depths to which this once glorious man has sunk. One rule for Dave Jones, another for himself :mad:
Supersubpuckett Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 That's not as mad as it sounds, if one believes the reports that Lowe uttered the words "lucky bastards" (or words to that effect) when Stern John scored the goal at the end of the season that kept Saints up. I agree - he probably feels betrayed by the club/fans and what sweeter revenge than to see SFC disappear into oblivion. I don't doubt his business management credentials but he doesn't possess an ounce of the footballing passion that seperates a football club from a normal business - he simply doesn't get it. WHY THE HELL WAS HE LET IN IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
saint1977 Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 I agree - he probably feels betrayed by the club/fans and what sweeter revenge than to see SFC disappear into oblivion. I don't doubt his business management credentials but he doesn't possess an ounce of the footballing passion that seperates a football club from a normal business - he simply doesn't get it. WHY THE HELL WAS HE LET IN IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Guy Askham. Great username by the way, takes me back to the early and mid-80s.
Topcat Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 Frank's cousin "He tries different things that he believes will help generate a competitive advantage - Radio stations and other commercial activity designed to improve our media presence and generate income long-term, advertise the corporate facilities (including the catering )to try and generate greater revenues and above develop and further invest in the academy and sports science to give us an edge where possible - all very laudable and rational -" Frank you try and come across as all reasonable and that we should all give poor old Lowe the benefit of the doubt. So what have all these Lowe experiments achieved? Answer; facing relegation to L1 and bankruptcy. Lowe has made mistake after mistake dressed up as "innovative thinking" whereas they were just amateur decisions by someone playing with his "toy". Only a fool would invest in the training ground and the Woodward circus rather than the 1st team to get us back up in the 1st season down from the Prem. Why a fool? Well because statistics say that the best chance of promotion is in the 1st and 2nd seasons. £1.5m spent on the 1st team could have given us the extra striker we needed. Lowe of course believes he knows better than statistics. Only a fool would get rid of a Manager (Pearson) who knew the players and had just saved us from relegation and then replace them with a foreign manager unused to the CCC. All to save £100,000. Step forward Rupert Lowe our resident idiot. Only a fool would raise a profit through transfer dealing in a January transfer window when we should have been desperately clinging on to our Premiership position and the £50m+ it was worth. The list of Lowe's stupidity is long and you, Frank, need to wake up to the real record of Rupert Lowe.
Viking Warrior Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 Yet another excellent well thought out balanced post Frank's Cousin many of the points you make , i totally agree with. Its hard being a saints Fan in the current climate. so much hostillity amongst fans on forums. Im not sure its cascaded onto the terraces yet. Everyone seemed quite chirpy inside St Mary's during the Reading Game. The real hostility I was exposed to was at the agm a few days earlier. It was embarrisng being there to say people swiping at each other, whether I will tell my dad type antics , or people moaning about pictures being taken down. Then people walking out en masse. God that was so embarrassed by that event alone. I had gone to hear how we were going to get out of the mess the club now finds itself in not the playground squabbles that went on. Both sides As for Leon well any respct I had for him has now evapourated . I would like to have seen him show more dignity to those present. but he didnt. His antics confirmed my impression of him when I had previously spoken to him. Oh and Lowe was equally inept with his flippent responses The club needs some form of ceasefire between warring factions to plan a strategic plan to get Southampton FC put of the mess we are in, not all this mud slinging. If that were to happen perhaps somebody ot there will make a sensible bid for the club and wilde, Lowe crouch and Co can ride off into the doistance never to be seen in the club boardroom ever again. Anyway an excellent post FC and happy new year to all forum members
John Smith Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 Alps' date=' see this the problem I have with you - This is not about portraying Lowe as anything, but about recognising that the choices made by the board were made in good faith and with reason - sure some failed and quite rightly criticism is due there, but its also about recognizing that as fans our 'divisions' on the Lowe debate are less to do with not recognizing his contribution to our 'downfall', but more in the way we have reacted to them.[/quote'] I do understand your rationalization on these matters FC, you know my position, we've been down that road many times, but I do respect your opinion. Based on that respect, I ask this question in all honesty: You stated this - "This is not about portraying Lowe as anything, but about recognising that the choices made by the board were made in good faith and with reason" And this is part of our difference, but, putting my criticism's aside, based on what you've stipulated above, and then add the next part of that sentance - "sure some failed and quite rightly criticism is due there" Considering Lowes statements as to why he wanted to return, and the changes 'he' made, and the current position, I would say, he is 'failing' to achieve his goals. At the half way point, although we are not cut adrift, I see us looking downward rather than upward. The impression I got at the beginning of Lowes return, was that we'd be fighting for the play-offs, now take that with a pinch of salt and settle for mid-table, we are still a long long way off of that goal. Let's take my opinion , that with NP and Crouch in charge, stopping the slide and this season looking to survive and push on, how far do we let Lowe go with 'his' ideas? When do 'we', as supporters, collectively decide that Lowe has failed to deliver anywhere near his claims? Is the end of the season, and relegation (if it happens), the point where 'we', the fans, collectively admit that Lowe has failed? And at that point, assuming relegation, what then? Do we allow him to rebuild again in League 1? (Sure, we might not have any influence, but I'm talking about a collective opinion of 'the fans' and let's say a 90% agreement, one way or another). Lastly, from Lowes point of view, as opposed to yours, at what point do you think Lowe will admit he has failed to achieve his goals? If he really did believe we would be challenging for the play-offs, how far off of that position do you think we need to be for Lowe to admit he has failed? And on the back of that, and assuming there is a point where Lowe would accept failure, what action do you think he would take? (Not what you think he should do, but what you think he would do). Now, I know the second part of this is asking for your opinion on what Lowe would do, or, what Lowe would think, but, isn't that part of the reason of having a 'forum'? To discuss the probable, the likely, or the darn right improbable? Anyway, tough questions FC, but I hope you receive them in all good faith. I'm not looking to set you up, just that I doubt Lowes integrity and maybe my view is blinded or one-sided. But my fears rest with this type of scenario with Lowe. As a 'by the way' I also doubt Lowes capabilities, culpability and decision making if we do become a Prem team again, but if we can, let's talk about that if we (when we?) get promoted again. John
hughieslastminutegoal Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 So just to confirm he's obsessed about money, only here for the money, absolutely money mad, money-money-money it's all he thinks about. So how the **** is he going to make any money whatsoever by us being at the bottom of the league and having to sell what little assets we have. Him "asset stripping" (yawn) doesn't make him a penny short term or long term. You do talk one-note toss, Stanley. Whatever anyone thinks about Lowe (and I have some choice words for the tw at) he clearly is here because he wants Saints to do well and he clearly wants to get Saints in the Premier League. And that is good for his bank balance, his ego, as a form of retribution and his reputation. Those last three are easily as important as money - if he was that money obsessed he could have sold up eons ago and made tons of money elsewhere. His objective is "keep Saints out of administration, build for promotion, get promoted". That, to me, is unquestionable and is genuine for what its worth. He doesn't want the club to fail on his watch. It's his methods, his attitude, his decisions and the rest of it that are the major problem. This is mainly fuelled by pig headedly being desperate to be seen to be "right all along". Of course, he's not right. He's a plank. That's what will see us in League one and bust, I'm afraid. I more or less agree with this, except I am far from certain he really wants promotion to the prem. I think he sees Saints as a feeder of footballer-product to other sides (especially the prem), so myopic has he become because of Walcott.
bridge too far Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 I more or less agree with this, except I am far from certain he really wants promotion to the prem. I think he sees Saints as a feeder of footballer-product to other sides (especially the prem), so myopic has he become because of Walcott. Hmmm this is what I was thinking a couple of months ago. This is why I think there's still the link with Hoddle. The basic premise? Develop youngsters and sell them on for a profit. Sod the football club, that's a secondary issue. I hope I'm wrong.
saint1977 Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 Yet another excellent well thought out balanced post Frank's Cousin many of the points you make , i totally agree with. Its hard being a saints Fan in the current climate. so much hostillity amongst fans on forums. Im not sure its cascaded onto the terraces yet. Everyone seemed quite chirpy inside St Mary's during the Reading Game. The real hostility I was exposed to was at the agm a few days earlier. It was embarrisng being there to say people swiping at each other, whether I will tell my dad type antics , or people moaning about pictures being taken down. Then people walking out en masse. God that was so embarrassed by that event alone. I had gone to hear how we were going to get out of the mess the club now finds itself in not the playground squabbles that went on. Both sides As for Leon well any respct I had for him has now evapourated . I would like to have seen him show more dignity to those present. but he didnt. His antics confirmed my impression of him when I had previously spoken to him. Oh and Lowe was equally inept with his flippent responses The club needs some form of ceasefire between warring factions to plan a strategic plan to get Southampton FC put of the mess we are in, not all this mud slinging. If that were to happen perhaps somebody ot there will make a sensible bid for the club and wilde, Lowe crouch and Co can ride off into the doistance never to be seen in the club boardroom ever again. Anyway an excellent post FC and happy new year to all forum members I was going to ask you how you found the AGM. Like your last paragraph. I think the SMS regulars have a bit of a gallows attitude to it all now, VA looks on the cards, even that seems to be the message from those genuine posters on here who are a bit more ITK. I'm not even sure protests will shift any of them now to be honest, I think the meltdown is about to happen and the scary bit is still to arrive and where it takes the club I dread to think. The board clearly cannot service the club - did Cowen say at the AGM "We can't do any more than we are currently doing" as quoted elsewhere on here today? I like Cowen but if even he's saying that, SFC is a very, very sick patient.
derry Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 Frank/Ron, there is no question that what Lowe, and with his direction, the board, does, is intended to improve things, however it is beyond their level of competence. Lowe would probably be a very able financial bean counter subservient to a competent chairman. However he is pretty incompetent when it comes to dealing with people. He is even more incompetent when it comes to actually running a football club. It bears no resemblance to running a financially related business. There are lots of people, personalities, fans/supporters not customers, history/tradition, tribal/area feelings, none of which he seems to have grasped. His ego and inability to ever admit that he is wrong, all add up to him being the most incompetent chairman possible. The real problem is that he only owns 6% of the shares and possesses 100% of the power. He or his supporters are not ever going to invest. Trying to run a football club outside the Premier on income, without outside investment is a slippery slope. Unless we bring through enough surplus players and sell them on every year at a vast profit, we are going to continue to drop until we find our level. This is happening now.
um pahars Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 (edited) If we take Lowe out of the equation and think just a little about what has changed in the game and why some decisions where taken - open ones mind to new possibilities' date=' its actually easy to see the logic to many of the ideas that are considered 'disasters' on here.[/quote'] Take Lowe out of the equation and you will find that the situation remains exactly the same. I think you'll find that very few people are actually against Lowe because of who he is, they are more against him because of his failings. There will always be some class warriors out for him whatever he does, but most of the fanbase judge him by his results. Hence why he was popular when he delivered the stadium, the Cup Final and a good league position and why his popularity diminished upon relegation and has gone further south with the latest episode. I don't think that's being fickle, I think it is normal human behaviour judging people by the results they deliver and just as he was raking in 400k and taking all the plaudits, so he should now be facing the music as he presides over a season that is increasingly going down the pan. But if you go back to how you think Lowe (and perhaps yourself) want to see the Club run, then once again I don't think you will find much argument about your overall sentiment. Most of us are OK with a self sustaining Club. Most of us are happy with a successful Academy contributing players and cash to the Club and of course most of us are happy if ancillary revenues generated can be used to fund the football club. BUT the problem that most people have is the prosecution of this strategy. The latter stages of his last tenure was a failure and his return this time around seems to be repeating some of the same mistakes. I'm sure none of this is intentional, but they are major mistakes none the less, and mistakes that are impacting massively on and off the pitch. Within this overall premise there are a myriad of decisions that have to be made and it is IMHO that too many poor decisions have been made in recent years and that is what my problem is. I no longer have any faith in Lowe getting the major decisions right. A prime example of this is the appointment of Wigley. Another would be the appointment of Poortvliet. These are/were key appointments that drove everything at the Club. Tale Lowe out of the equation and ask yourself, are you happy with what is currently being served up? As Lowe himself stated, this is a results driven basis and I judge him solely by his results. Edited 7 January, 2009 by um pahars
PAULACZT Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 Take Lowe out of the equation and you will find that the situation remains exactly the same. I think you'll find that very few people are actually against Lowe because of who he is, they are more against him because of his failings. There will always be some class warriors out for him whatever he does, but most of the fanbase judge him by his results. Hence why he was popular when he delivered the stadium, the Cup Final and a good league position and why his popularity diminished upon relegation and has gone further south with the latest episode. I don't think that's being fickle, I think it is normal human behaviour judging people by the results they deliver and just as he was raking in 400k and taking all the plaudits, so he should now be facing the music as he presides over a season that is increasingly going down the pan. But if you go back to how you think Lowe (and perhaps yourself) want to see the Club run, then once again I don't think you will find much argument about your overall sentiment. Most of us are OK with a self sustaining Club. Most of us are happy with a successful Academy contributing players and cash to the Club and of course most of us are happy if ancillary revenues generated can be used to fund the football club. BUT the problem that most people have is the prosecution of this strategy. The latter stages of his last tenure was a failure and his return this time around seems to be repeating some of the same mistakes. I'm sure none of this is intentional, but they are major mistakes no the less that are impacting massively on and off the pitch. Within this overall premise there are a myriad of decisions that have to be made and it is IMHO that too many poor decisions have been made in recent years and that is what my problem is. I no longer have any faith in Lowe getting the major decisions right. A prime example of this is the appointment of Wigley. Another would be the appointment of Poortvliet. Tale Lowe out of the equation and ask yourself, are you happy with what is currently being served up? As Lowe himself stated, this is a results driven basis and I judge him solely by his results. Good evening all UP would I be correct in saying that most football supporters judge their Chairmen on the managers they appoint and therefore the results those managers gain? Is it also correct (please someone correct me if I am wrong) that with all the various managers Rupert has appointed he/they have produced over his 10 years a win percentage in the League of less than 30%!! (Would love to know the goals for and against in that period if anyone can help) Could I also venture that all the 'modern' ideas and methods, some revolutionary according to Rupert, have A) not produced winning teams B) not given the club any upward momentum in the League. I am sorry to all if this simplistic summary is hard to swallow, but surprisingly if you appoint good managers who win more games than they lose..the club moves up the league...supporters remain happy because of that...revenues increase because of higher attendances..and people praise you. If you do not, as a Chairman, appoint successfully...obviously the opposite happens and you end up in a situation (2nd bottom of the Championship) that we all dislike and become slightly frustrated with!! Please all Lowe supporters help me change those statistics, so that what Rupert is doing to this club looks more..revolutionary...visionary...modern...forward thinking. Instead of, in football terms (because thats what we are, a football club) outright,utter failure! I think it was a certain Mr Lowe that said "we are in a results driven business". Kind regards
SaintRobbie Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 Alps' date=' see this the problem I have with you - This is not about portraying Lowe as anything, but about recognising that the choices made by the board were made in good faith and with reason - sure some failed and quite rightly criticism is due there, but its also about recognizing that as fans our 'divisions' on the Lowe debate are less to do with not recognizing his contribution to our 'downfall', but more in the way we have reacted to them.[/quote'] FC - Alps is right. What's important though is that it isnt 'some' choices that have failed it is 'most'. However, even more important again is the fact that Lowe has no confidence from the majority who criticise him and hence that is why whenever he does something right he is ignored. It is because he is NOT TRUSTED. Even you have to acknowledge that - circumstances or not. So I'm afraid his very name being associated with the Club at the moment is probably contributing to the demise of the club - no matter what 'good' he does. And I dont see much good to be honest.
benjii Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 Ah ha, Thanks Stanley for nailing your colours to the mast as Leon's PR manager. They are ALL as bad as each other mate, Leon made mistakes as well, so be careful you do not start to re-write history. They ALL have to go and ALL take their hangers on with them. Nah, they're really not.
SaintRobbie Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 Back to the thread... Slightly different question but; 'Do you think Lowe sleeps at night?'
sadoldgit Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 You seem to lose the plot more by the day. We all know Judas Wilde is completely clueless hence him appointing the execs to run the club, but under Leon Crouch and Lawrie McMenemy the mess was being sorted out and we had a damn fine management team under Nigel Pearson. The reason Lowe is back now is because of one man and one man only... Michael Wilde and the reason Wilde brought Lowe back was all about revenge. Wilde fooled a good many people, but as you well know he didn't fool me as i saw straight through him with the way he used Keith Legg and the Saints Trust. Leon Crouch on the other hand has never resorted to posting on message boards in disguise or using other people to fire the gun he loaded. Leon Crouch has also demonstrated his generosity with gestures such as the Ted Bates statue. Crouch may not have the tens of millions needed to bail us out, but with crouch you have a man who bleeds red and white just like everyone of us. Crouch is one of us and Crouch would put his hand in his pocket and be prepared to take a financial hit. Lowe and Wilde will never put SFC before themselves. Quite how you and all the other slithery Lowe supporters can knock him and support a man who is all about himself is disgraceful. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. I am not the least bit ashamed of myself and why should I be? The management team you talk of nearly spent us into administration and we only managed to stay up on the last day of the season. I would hardly say it was a "damn fine management team". You really need to get past this strang obsessiveness and try and look at things objectively for a change Stanley.
sadoldgit Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 Back to the thread... Slightly different question but; 'Do you think Lowe sleeps at night?' Obviously not, as one of the Undead. Really, what does it matter?
Snowballs2 Posted 7 January, 2009 Posted 7 January, 2009 Before we eventually go into Administration Lowe will quit, it would not look good on his Cv as being in control in going into Administration
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