Saints Transfers Thread - Deadline Day

[Saint_Ash]

Really don't get the mentality on this, all I am advocating is that the summer so far has led to a "currently" (!!!) weaker team... and that I would expect the club to spend the money we clearly have to strengthen year on year to the best of our ability. Currently we have lost 3 players in Mane, Wanyama and Pelle, and not adequately replaced 2 of them (mane/pelle). We are weaker this summer so far, and all around us teams are strengthening. So not unreasonable to expect saints to do the same.

A quick look back at your posts and you flapped like this last year and that didn't turn out too bad did it. Why don't you wait a bit before hitting the panic button.

[Happy saint]

the transfer window closes end August. wait till then and judge.

[Professor]

Really don't get the mentality on this, all I am advocating is that the summer so far has led to a "currently" (!!!) weaker team... and that I would expect the club to spend the money we clearly have to strengthen year on year to the best of our ability. Currently we have lost 3 players in Mane, Wanyama and Pelle, and not adequately replaced 2 of them (mane/pelle). We are weaker this summer so far, and all around us teams are strengthening. So not unreasonable to expect saints to do the same.

Entitled to your opinion, Saint86 but don't think its right to state this opinion as if its a fact. We can't know what the club's assessment is and they may believe that in Austin they have Pelle's replacement as well as Shane Long clearly at his peak. Wanyama only managed about 2/3rds of the season and had weaknesses of his own. Romeu may be regarded as his replacement added to which we have Hojbjerg. Mane also had his issues with times when he didn't perform well, was sometime a poor team player and we can't forget his goal drought. Redmond may be a different player, but one who brings something new to the team and we have Rodriguez. Others may take the view that the team is as good as last season, although I accept that shouldn't rule out further strengthening to compete as well this year as last and to cope with the Europa League.

It's always worth remembering that paying a lot of money for a player is no guarantee that he'll do well with his new club. We've had our own experiences of that, as have several other of the so-called big clubs who have seen some big signings failing to deliver. Splashing the cash might feel good but it can soon go sour.

[SuperSAINT]

How is Austin, Rodriguez and Long better than Pelle, Austin, Rodriguez, Long and Mane?

 

Whatever way it's dressed up, our attack is way off what it was last season. I'm sure we have our targets and will make a couple of good signings, I just find it odd that after years of doing well anyone would be ok with our current attack which is clearly quite limited.

 

Yeah, I don't understand the argument. We've lost 7 players since the end of last season, and signed 2.

 

There's not really a debate to be had.

[doddisalegend]

How is Austin, Rodriguez and Long better than Pelle, Austin, Rodriguez, Long and Mane?

 

Whatever way it's dressed up, our attack is way off what it was last season. I'm sure we have our targets and will make a couple of good signings, I just find it odd that after years of doing well anyone would be ok with our current attack which is clearly quite limited.

 

isn't our attack now Austin, Jrod, Long and Redmond

 

beginning of last season it was Jrod, Pelle, Mane and Long

 

Doesn't look overly different....

[doddisalegend]

Yeah, I don't understand the argument. We've lost 7 players since the end of last season, and signed 2.

 

There's not really a debate to be had.

 

You might want to have that debate with the club then. They clearly stated through the Echo they are happy with the squad and think they have two quality players in every position. I'll hold judgement on weather they are right once we've played a good part of the season but I will say if you are expecting the club to bring in seven players this summer I think you will be disappointed.

[saint lard]

I think I will wait until the window closes to display my concern/dismay/delight....(insert many possible human emotions).....

 

 

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[SuperSAINT]

You might want to have that debate with the club then. They clearly stated through the Echo they are happy with the squad and think they have two quality players in every position. I'll hold judgement on weather they are right once we've played a good part of the season but I will say if you are expecting the club to bring in seven players this summer I think you will be disappointed.

 

I personally hope (& believe) that we'll bring another 3 (maybe 4) in.

[Saint Pete]

Entitled to your opinion, Saint86 but don't think its right to state this opinion as if its a fact. We can't know what the club's assessment is and they may believe that in Austin they have Pelle's replacement as well as Shane Long clearly at his peak. Wanyama only managed about 2/3rds of the season and had weaknesses of his own. Romeu may be regarded as his replacement added to which we have Hojbjerg. Mane also had his issues with times when he didn't perform well, was sometime a poor team player and we can't forget his goal drought. Redmond may be a different player, but one who brings something new to the team and we have Rodriguez. Others may take the view that the team is as good as last season, although I accept that shouldn't rule out further strengthening to compete as well this year as last and to cope with the Europa League.

It's always worth remembering that paying a lot of money for a player is no guarantee that he'll do well with his new club. We've had our own experiences of that, as have several other of the so-called big clubs who have seen some big signings failing to deliver. Splashing the cash might feel good but it can soon go sour.

 

Only time will tell I guess, but if the club's view regarding players who were previously considered as good backup or alternatives is that they are now good enough to be first choice and to keep us progressing as a team, doesn't that feel a little bit complacent?

 

As we know, the Premier League is extremely competitive and arguably becoming more so with the extra TV deal money, so it's vital to keep striving to improve year on year if you are to stand a chance of even maintaining your position in the league. Undoubtedly, the club and management have done that superbly in the last few seasons, and they may well do the same again this season, as there is still time to strengthen the team before the window closes. It just concerns me a bit when some noises coming out of the club seem to suggest we can just promote players who were squad backup or had serious injury concerns last year to replace top class first team regulars like Mane and Wanyama - without any consequence to the strength of the team?

 

That said, I still hope and expect there to be some additions to bolster our options before the end of the window, so that will be the time to make a meaningful assessment of where we are.

[OldNick]

Totally agree with this analysis. If waving the chequebook about to accelerate success was good enough for Pompey when they were in the Premier League then its blinkin' well good enough for us too....

fair point but their fans have lots of fantastic memories that in turn bring more fans for life.

Iam not saying get into their position but to get new generations of fans into the club you need to actually win something.

I was privilaged to be there when we won the FA cup, I suspect 70% of those at that game probably passed away now. To get a worldwide fanbase the club have spoken about, you need success and win the odd thing. It gets tiring watching our former players going up and collecting medals, how about the Southampton Way being that we actually win something for a change

[Window Cleaner]

Wave the chequebook? In our case it's more like rattling the loose change jar..

Edited 26 July, 2016 by Window Cleaner

[striker]

isn't our attack now Austin, Jrod, Long and Redmond

 

beginning of last season it was Jrod, Pelle, Mane and Long

 

Doesn't look overly different....

 

There certainly seems to be a lot of clamor linking us to strikers. Recently we've been linked to one from Monaco and one Dutch one who plays in Germany. However who knows if any of it is true. I guess its all down to how you view Redmond. Is he primarily a striker, or is he a midfielder, or does it matter? Then again in the setup run so far, I could suggest that the two positions have a lot of overlap anyway. If you view Redmond as an attacker/striker, then we do have 4, and they are arguably better than what we started with last year.

[Sheaf Saint]

How is Austin, Rodriguez and Long better than Pelle, Austin, Rodriguez, Long and Mane?

 

Austin was signed as Pelle's replacement. We never intended to have all 5 of those players in the squad long-term.

 

Rodriguez, in the form he was in before his ACL injury, is as good as- if not better than - Mane, in my opinion. Yes it is far from certain that he will get back to that form, but then Mane spent 4 months out of form last season, so it's swings and roundabouts.

[Donatello]

How is Austin, Rodriguez and Long better than Pelle, Austin, Rodriguez, Long and Mane?

 

Whatever way it's dressed up, our attack is way off what it was last season. I'm sure we have our targets and will make a couple of good signings, I just find it odd that after years of doing well anyone would be ok with our current attack which is clearly quite limited.

 

A) I'm not claiming it's better/worse than anything, B) if you're including Mane, you have to include Redmond, C) I'm not including Mane, so I'm not including Redmond, D) Austin was signed on the basis Pelle would be leaving.

 

In conclusion, it's Long/Austin/JRod Vs Long/Pelle/Austin. To suggest that we've been been a Prem side with 4 established strikers is simply disingenuous.

Edited 26 July, 2016 by Donatello

[Donatello]

isn't our attack now Austin, Jrod, Long and Redmond

 

beginning of last season it was Jrod, Pelle, Mane and Long

 

Doesn't look overly different....

 

I'm sure Adrian can see this really. He just doesn't think it's as good, but that's another matter to the point I was making.

[Saint Garrett]

We were stronger at the start of last season, but there is still time...I still fully expect us to sign a "marquee" signing if you want to call it that.

[Donatello]

Yeah, I don't understand the argument. We've lost 7 players since the end of last season, and signed 2.

 

There's not really a debate to be had.

 

Who are the seven, Supersaint?

[eddie]

Only time will tell I guess, but if the club's view regarding players who were previously considered as good backup or alternatives is that they are now good enough to be first choice and to keep us progressing as a team, doesn't that feel a little bit complacent?

....

 

Not really a backup if you are injured and new to the club, and with Long on fire. All of us were chuffed with Austin's arrival and anyone who doesn't see him as long term perfect replacement for Pelle is bizzare, given that he was prolific for QPR (that beaut against us at St Marys), and in the prime age for a footballer.

 

Romeu is classic midfield muscle who seems to have worked on his ball playing skills and general match awareness. Wanyama was a bit less of a hard tackler (yes, you heard me - when Romeu came in he was an uncontrollable wrecking ball) but more of a clever footballer and could hold onto the ball better. Both were poor in disciplinary record. Wanyama seems to have had a strange attitude toward the end of the season which one can only describe, given his recent move to Tottenham, as 'having his head elsewhere'. He came back into the team and performed well. Romeu on the other hand has improved throughout the season, given license by Koeman to have a crack if the defense opened up, and covering well on both sides and behind. Several times he, like VW used to do, came across for Targett/Cedric, or whoever else, and justified his label, as RK said when he came in, as being their first choice target for a defensive midfielder. This was last summer when VW was touted to go, so most likely the long term replacement.

 

I'm happy with that, he seems a good bloke, exactly what we need in midfield seeing as our other CMs are fairly small builds. He puts in a shift and generally improved over the course of the season. I say give him the starting place alongside Clasie/Hojberg in midfield. If it's a team where the game is won/lost in midfield, play all three, or Davis for Hojberg.

 

Redmond I just don't know, I didn't watch him for Norwich very much. Mane was fantastic, arguably guilty of the same demeanor as VW for several games, including his well highlighted goal drought. He'll be difficult to replace because he took on players and while his long passing wasn't ever used, his short passing and the way he played the ball between the other front 2/3 was fantastic. That's tricky, because we don't have an obvious deputy. Davis is pretty good at short passing, but doesn't combine that with the ability to take on players that Tadic and I believe Redmond provide. In other words, we need 2 players to replace a player that previously did both jobs, taking on/creativity and distributing the ball. That's a loss, but not one that we have no ideas how to solve because a) Redmond may well be able to come into that system and start doing a similar job and b) Tadic problem with RK was that he was very pushed out. He was forced to sit on the sidelines, only appearing when we moved from a 5-3-2 system. Under Puel, the freedom given to play as an out and out number 10 may be good for him. Or, the new system could be 2-2-2 up front, two tight midfielders, two wide players and two centre forwards in the middle (striker/second striker). In any case, I'm saying we're not out of ideas of how to solve the issue. Maybe Puel will try and for a few games we're shown up. However, at least we do have ways to solve that loss, and clearly unless the club bring in someone else (yes, a #10), they think these solutions will be adequete. I don't think it's a duck-tape job either. I'm fairly optimistic about returning injurees and a smattering of youth.

 

Mind you, a tasty transfer or three in the next month would bring a smile.

[Tom & Gerry]

Resources are limited. Saints have taken a long term view that this season they will spend more on improving wages and giving long term contracts to key players so they stay longer or we get more for them. It has been mentioned that we can't keep our best players, Saints are trying to do something about that. In the short term this means we can spend less in the transfer market. I do not think the quality of the team has been seriously dented given that Waynyama was sent off 3 times and Mane's match winning performances though wonderful were limited. I also think Redmond has been seriously underestimated. It is also unfortunate that we have had to change Manager and he needs time to assess the players we need. No doubt he will have done this before the end of the window and the club will meet his requirements within the budget.

[Wiggles31]

It's hard not to get a bit worried about further transfers. That said the Hoijberg (spelling?) came from nowhere and we signed him the day after the first rumour coming directly from his agent. We all we know how discreetly we do our business and we haven't even reached August yet. Still plenty of time.

 

I also think the recent flux of contract extensions would indicate the players are happy with the seasons plan.

[John D]

I wonder if people's view on attacking strength would be different if Austin had signed last week and not in January.

 

Personally I still feel we are one player short in the attacking positions. I do not feel confident Austin and JRod will both manage 2 games in a week regularly.

[tobes8]

Midfield I'm not worried. I thought Wanyama was fantastic, and he'll do well at Spurs, but his attitude wasn't always great and he was suspended too much last season. Romeu needs to play more, he could be a terrific player if he stays here a few seasons. I always get the feeling he could start scoring a few too, he has a decent shot.

 

Clasie did ok, JWP needs game time and Reed will surely get chances? Add in Hojbjerg and Davis and there are great midfield options. Defence is settled, Targett and Martina or Stephens can be back up. So it's purely the attack that is lacking.

 

But that midfield as like last season won't score goals..

[Slugger]

If you intend to play two strikers up top then having three strikers in the squad is one light IMO.

 

If you only play one striker then 3 is ok.

 

Since Austin signed in Jan, he and Jay Rod were probably unavailable more than available.

 

With Europa games and Cup etc we would be stretched with just one striker injury and severely hampered with two (and we had two striker injuries for the majority of the second half of last season). Luckily, we had four strikers plus Mane who can play up front, rather than three plus Redmond who has never played up front.

[ratio_decidendi]

I also think the recent flux of contract extensions would indicate the players are happy with the season's plan.

 

This is such a crucial thing that doesn't come up enough amongst fans.

 

The players are actively showing commitment to the club's current philosophy and business plan by voting with their feet (i.e. by not walking out of the door to another club), and as their opinion is far more informed about the club's viability they can, therefore, be used as a much better barometer than your average #saintsfc fan.

 

On a different note, and this is just speculation, but I think the club are deliberately playing the 'no more transfers necessary' face as a negotiation tactic in the market. By staying discrete about player interest and not utilising the media to fuel speculation and pique player interest, they strengthen their own bargaining position. Certainly, it's what I'd do when buying a car, house or anything else substantial - I'd weaken my position if I had a bolshy approach to the market, informing everyone that I had loads of cash burning a hole in my pocket. Indeed, look at how much teams like Liverpool and Utd have spent!

 

So, to all those #saintsfc fans who are impatiently decrying the club's lack of expenditure over a month before the transfer window is over (!), I suggest you pipe down a bit and find something else to do. Save your absolute judgement until 01/09/16.

[verlaine1979]

Austin was signed as Pelle's replacement. We never intended to have all 5 of those players in the squad long-term.

 

Rodriguez, in the form he was in before his ACL injury, is as good as- if not better than - Mane, in my opinion. Yes it is far from certain that he will get back to that form, but then Mane spent 4 months out of form last season, so it's swings and roundabouts.

 

This may have been the club's stance internally, but I don't think the reaction here is wholly inconsistent with what was being said at the time. A lot of people were complaining about chance conversion and saying we needed to buy an additional striker who could put away a greater % of chances than Pelle/Long (personally I thought our problem was more creativity and goals from midfield, but that's by the by).

[SuperSAINT]

Who are the seven, Supersaint?

 

1) Super Kelv

2) Stek

3) Gaston

4) Juanmi

5) Big Vic

6) Mane

7) Pelle

 

(I keep a nerdy spreadsheet)

[warsash saint]

Have I time warped back to 2015, 2014, 2013 etc etc ??

 

Every year impatient loons clog up this board demanding signing after signing!

 

When has the club concluded its transfer activities by the end of July? I think most sane fans realise we are not finished & that the window is still open for weeks. By all means rattle your cage at the end of August BUT until then PLEASE look back at previous seasons:mcinnes:

[Saint_Ash]

1) Super Kelv

2) Stek

3) Gaston

4) Juanmi

5) Big Vic

6) Mane

7) Pelle

 

(I keep a nerdy spreadsheet)

Or ones that matter are -

5) Big Vic

6) Mane

7) Pelle

 

I think we will bring in a couple more players for some reason the press is determined to buy us a right back and we must be looking at a proper Mane replacement. We will also buy someone on deadline day that no one thought of that will be great, like our last couple of deadline days.

[the_emu]

We were stronger at the start of last season, but there is still time...I still fully expect us to sign a "marquee" signing if you want to call it that.

 

Not sure we were...

 

For our first game we had amongst others starting Stek, Targett, Yoshi, J-Rod, a sulky Wanyama and had on the bench Jaunmi & Caulker.

[Baird of the land]

1) Super Kelv

2) Stek

3) Gaston

4) Juanmi

5) Big Vic

6) Mane

7) Pelle

 

(I keep a nerdy spreadsheet)

 

7 sounds big but when you consider 2 were keepers, one of which was our 4th choice it could be argued that manager a) might want to promote gazza and youth team keeper to 2nd and 3rd choice respectively or at worst we need to sign one reserve keeper.

 

2 more were attacking midfielder who were a combination of rarely played/made the bench/loaned out. I'd like to see us buy one more top quality attacking midfielder but i can see why the club might not want to relive losing a tonne of money signing the wrong player again like Juanmi.

 

That leaves 3 regular outfield players. We've bought 2 players, 3 if you consider Austin in January in reality Pelle's replacement.

[SaintJackoInHurworth]

I'm a bit bored of the 'we are weaker and doomed to failure vs we have a team of world beaters vs lets wait and see' discussions, so can I sort of get the thread vaguely back to its main topic...

 

So, from what I read on here, am I right in assessing that we must be in the middle of a process that looks like this:

 

1. Identify current squad needs.

2. Identify potential targets to meet needs by reference to the black box/book.

3. Identify availability and cost of potential targets by a process of enquiries with agents and clubs.

4. Develop enquiries to put together transfer package bids in consultation with agents and/or clubs.

5. Submit bid

6. Negotiate with players and their agents.

 

On that basis could the lack of transfer news suggest ee are quite a way on in the process to buy the players we want?

 

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[Fitzhugh Fella]

I think all this debate to be superfluous. It all boils down to Austin and JayRod staying fit and finding form. They do that we'll be fine as things stand. If they don't then we will rue not signing established replacements for Mane and Pelle. It's that simple.

[Saint-Fred]

K

I'm a bit bored of the 'we are weaker and doomed to failure vs we have a team of world beaters vs lets wait and see' discussions, so can I sort of get the thread vaguely back to its main topic...

 

So, from what I read on here, am I right in assessing that we must be in the middle of a process that looks like this:

 

1. Identify current squad needs.

2. Identify potential targets to meet needs by reference to the black box/book.

3. Identify availability and cost of potential targets by a process of enquiries with agents and clubs.

4. Develop enquiries to put together transfer package bids in consultation with agents and/or clubs.

5. Submit bid

6. Negotiate with players and their agents.

 

On that basis could the lack of transfer news suggest ee are quite a way on in the process to buy the players we want?

 

Sent from my GT-I9195I using Tapatalk

 

What I don't get is we are always told that these players were leaving since last summer...Why then does the black box not have identified targets before the end of August?

if they are already identified and we wait to save a few quid by buying them later in the window then surely that is a false economy?..more likely is we have people we'd like to buy but some aren't interested, some want too much money and some are waiting for a better offer. Much like every other club ,We probably then settle for who we can get , who may have been third or fourth choice ...however unlike others we seem to not think anybody is better than nobody.

[Pilchards]

You have to remember that we are going to be playing a game every three days according to Puel so you need a good squad.

IMHO thinking that Reed, Sims, Taggart, McQueen and co are going to fill out the squad could spell trouble.

[SuperSAINT]

FC Twente Latest ‏@FCTwenteLatest

Dinamo Kiev have emerged as frontrunners in the Ziyech-race, according to Turkish press. Unclear if the player wants to go there #FCTwente

[Window Cleaner]

Why do you think it hasn't identified targets? I'm sure they Jace plenty for every position it just takes a while to get them. We were following VVD for ages before we got him late last summer.

 

It's been proven with several signings we rarely have a clue of many we're tracking.

 

But wasn't the late signing of VVD something to do with Celtic's CL campaign, we had to wait until it was over to get our target. Perhaps we're targetting CL minnows again this season, perhaps we're signing someone from Lincoln Red Imps at this very moment. In fact if Valère Germain is a serious prospect, and I'd certainly hope that not to be the case, perhaps we have to wait and see what happens in the Monaco-Fenebahce tie.

[DT]

I think all this debate to be superfluous. It all boils down to Austin and JayRod staying fit and finding form. They do that we'll be fine as things stand. If they don't then we will rue not signing established replacements for Mane and Pelle. It's that simple.

 

I think the likelihood of that is less than Donald Trump's hair being discovered to be real. Our thin squad needs bolstering. It's simple.

[Saint-Fred]

fair point but their fans have lots of fantastic memories that in turn bring more fans for life.

Iam not saying get into their position but to get new generations of fans into the club you need to actually win something.

I was privilaged to be there when we won the FA cup, I suspect 70% of those at that game probably passed away now. To get a worldwide fanbase the club have spoken about, you need success and win the odd thing. It gets tiring watching our former players going up and collecting medals, how about the Southampton Way being that we actually win something for a change

 

70%? Crikey what do you think the average age of our fan was back then?

[Saint-Fred]

Why do you think it hasn't identified targets? I'm sure they Jace plenty for every position it just takes a while to get them. We were following VVD for ages before we got him late last summer.

 

It's been proven with several signings we rarely have a clue of many we're tracking.

 

 

I didn't say it hadn't but if we know who we want why do we need to track them? Why is it Mane, Pelle, Wanyama, Lallana, etc etc.. Are all sold quickly but we have to "track" signings? Do we have to dart them with a tranquilliser to make them come here?

[CB Fry]

I didn't say it hadn't but if we know who we want why do we need to track them? Why is it Mane, Pelle, Wanyama, Lallana, etc etc.. Are all sold quickly but we have to "track" signings? Do we have to dart them with a tranquilliser to make them come here?

 

K

 

What I don't get is we are always told that these players were leaving since last summer...Why then does the black box not have identified targets before the end of August?

if they are already identified and we wait to save a few quid by buying them later in the window then surely that is a false economy?..more likely is we have people we'd like to buy but some aren't interested, some want too much money and some are waiting for a better offer. Much like every other club ,We probably then settle for who we can get , who may have been third or fourth choice ...however unlike others we seem to not think anybody is better than nobody.

Jesus Christ.

 

We've got another five weeks of this.

[jamesfp1]

This thread could really do with an ITK to settle things before someone hurts themselves.

[Happy saint]

We don't want signings just to make up numbers , we need players better than those that left. Some years it's taken a big signing by a big 4 team to provide movement in the market.

[S-Clarke]

What?

 

Why do we track targets? Because that's how you follow their progress and have targets ready for when you need them. We sold because it was the right price, lots clearly haven't reached the right price yet.

 

Why should a deal be quick? If I were a player I'd wait to assess all my options, and while the window is open most clubs do the same. Loads of players will move before the deadline, it gets drawn out every single time.

 

It's the world of football manager for you.

 

''Well, on football manager, i click on a player, pay the money and he's signed within a few minutes''

[Batman]

It's the world of football manager for you.

 

''Well, on football manager, i click on a player, pay the money and he's signed within a few minutes''

 

Seems that way when we sell sometimes

[SuperSAINT]

Seems that way when we sell sometimes

 

This is true! Calum Chambers seemed to vanish off to Arsenal during a friendly!

 

The nearest thing to Football Manager in real life is West Ham's striker hunt.

[Winnersaint]

This thread could really do with an ITK to settle things before someone hurts themselves.

 

Nah let them hurt themselves!

[Lighthouse]

Seems that way when we sell sometimes

 

You need to get in touch with Les and subscribe to his transfer email updates. Whenever someone enquires about a player, the first thing he does is email me about about it. I suggest you sign up asap, then you get more warning about our potential outgoings.

[Graffito]

There was an article in the Times over the weekend which alluded to how agents expect that most deals in any transfer window, especially in the PL, happen towards the end of the transfer window. Add to that, disruption caused by the Euros. Then factor in that we have a new Manager who needs to assess his squad when players involved in the Euros are returning late, before he presses the button on any further transfers, then a hiatus in signings is entirely understandable.

[The Cat]

Seems that way when we sell sometimes

 

Also seemed that way when we signed Hojberg. But then not like you to be negative eh?

[Dig Dig]

Totally agree with this analysis. If waving the chequebook about to accelerate success was good enough for Pompey when they were in the Premier League then its blinkin' well good enough for us too....

 

Good old irrelevant Pompey comparison. Maybe we should spend absolutely nothing just to be sure?