No creativity

[Saint-Beer]

Even when we were winning, the team sheet lacked any creative or exciting players. It look solid and predictable. Really brought memories of Strachen. Good results but not exciting.

What has happened to Tadic? How is this guy not getting a game? Mane has lost his way. The bombing fallbacks have gone in this solid "3-5-2". Like Koeman has seen out limitations and just thought, keep it right and hope to grab a goal. Thoughts?

 

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[S-Clarke]

Austin, Long, Mane. Pelle, Tadic, Mane.......Cedric and Bertrand attacking full backs. There's plenty of attacking and creative players on show. Our problem tonight came from midfield, no one controlling the game or retaning the ball - so the attacking players never really got into it.

 

One day JWP will become a consistent player.

[Batman]

we really dont. pretty direct side with little spark or guile in the side.

telling really when we have scored the most from headers and put in the most crosses. Or something like that

 

bit of a dull season really. But this defensive football is alright. we desperately need s sigurdsson/payet type player in the middle of the park

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Tadic is ****, even Koeman has wised up to that judging by his comments in the Echo. It's not creativity we need most at present but character and leadership, qualities sadly lacking

[Verbal Kint]

We have one creative player in the entire squad (Tadic) and Koeman would rather his all defence tactic than play him

[Sour Mash]

Same weakest spot we've had for 18months. A good no.10. But everyone was obsessed with getting Austin in.

[Batman]

Austin, Long, Mane. Pelle, Tadic, Mane.......Cedric and Bertrand attacking full backs. There's plenty of attacking and creative players on show. Our problem tonight came from midfield, no one controlling the game or retaning the ball - so the attacking players never really got into it.

 

One day JWP will become a consistent player.

 

there isnt.

no real creative talent apart from Tadic. Lots of players who can put a ball in..but very few who can beat a man in a tight space and play a good forward pass or score something from nothing

[Sour Mash]

We have one creative player in the entire squad (Tadic) and Koeman would rather his all defence tactic than play him

 

Should have come on a lot earlier tonight.

[LGTL]

That was up there with Sunderland and Sheffield Utd in the cup and Midjetland. We never turn up for big away games.

[S-Clarke]

there isnt.

no real creative talent apart from Tadic. Lots of players who can put a ball in..but very few who can beat a man in a tight space and play s good forward pass or score something from nothing

 

Mane, Long. They can when they feel like it.

Our problem is midfield, no real control in there (clasie looks like he is starting to grab it though) and a lack of a creative influence in that area to feed the 3 we play.

[Dig Dig]

5 at the back masked a lack of creativity in the side and a lack if quality in CM. We've been excellent at defending our own third whilst creating the odd chance for two for a win or a draw but the quality of football overall hasn't been there. Now that Chelsea 2nd half and Bournemouth tonight have exploited the right spaces, will be interesting to see how we line up in the next few.

[egreog]

Inertia and 40 point syndrome has set in. Well beaten by a motivated team that wanted it much more. Expect the same on Saturday as these guys seem to be saving themselves for the Euros or summer holidays already. Mid table with nothing to play for seems to have set in early!!

[Dalek2003]

Inertia and 40 point syndrome has set in. Well beaten by a motivated team that wanted it much more. Expect the same on Saturday as these guys seem to be saving themselves for the Euros or summer holidays already. Mid table with nothing to play for seems to have set in early!!

 

We need another 10 points to finish mid table.

[Batman]

if it helps, pompey let in a 90th min equaliser

[Saint Charlie]

5 at the back masked a lack of creativity in the side and a lack if quality in CM. We've been excellent at defending our own third whilst creating the odd chance for two for a win or a draw but the quality of football overall hasn't been there. Now that Chelsea 2nd half and Bournemouth tonight have exploited the right spaces, will be interesting to see how we line up in the next few.

This is true. We have gained a lot of poikts through being effective and defensively sound rather than out footballing teams.

 

Probably havent had the majority of possession in five or six games now.

[Tommy Mulgrew]

Creativity is not the only thing that we lack: mental strength and desire to win at almost any cost are what's lacking.

 

Tonight,we were out-thought, out-fought, out-dived, out-scored and out-defended by Bournemouth. We were shockingly inept and deservedly lost. Neither free kick that led to a goal should have been given. No "tiger" at all from our players; didn't anyone tell them that it was a south-coast derby? We'll certainly have to buck up our ideas before Saturday. IMO, if we lose to Fat Sam, that will be the end of our season. Get a grip lads and back to winning ways. Long likely to be fit for Sunderland but Austin out for several weeks.

 

And a fair deal from the ref always helps.

 

(Why are the post-match threads closed?)

[Jonnyboy]

Not enough goals in this team.

[S-Clarke]

What's happened to Juanmi by the way? is he injured, or have we just given up on him?

[Batman]

RK reaction....

 

Disappointed

they were more aggressive from the start

not happy how we started

we never controlled the game

the pressed better, were sharper from the start

they had more belief and more aggression

we never gave as much as them

it was hard to match them from the start

if you dont start well it is hard

[maysie]

Post match thread closed?!

 

We are pretty fragile aren't we..

 

Suppose that sums up a mid able side

[Roger]

Tadic is ****, even Koeman has wised up to that judging by his comments in the Echo. It's not creativity we need most at present but character and leadership, qualities sadly lacking

 

I'm sorry but how u can pick on him tonight is beyond me. Was on no time at all. How'd Gallagher go last night?

[maysie]

I'm sorry but how u can pick on him tonight is beyond me. Was on no time at all. How'd Gallagher go last night?

 

He's always hated him.

 

Probably asked him to sign one of his books and he said no.

[Leicestersaint]

Pretty abject performance. The side looked as though they thought all they had to do was to turn out to get the points - arrogant and abject, not a good combination.

[DuncanRG]

That was up there with Sunderland and Sheffield Utd in the cup and Midjetland. We never turn up for big away games.

 

Besides, you know, wins at Stamford Bridge and Old Trafford and points at Anfield and Arsenal.

[St Lej]

He's always hated him.

 

Probably asked him to sign one of his books and he said no.

 

Yep, it's pretty childish as the hatred is clearly based on something more than just footballing ability. Many more players worthy of stick than Tadic.

[LGTL]

Besides, you know, wins at Stamford Bridge and Old Trafford and points at Anfield and Arsenal.

 

They weren't 'big' though - Midjetland would have got us to Europe, Sunderland would have got us into the last 8 of the FA Cup, Sheff Utd into Semis of the League Cup and tonight was a derby.

 

Perhaps, you know, we're better at going away expecting to get battered.

[captainchris]

Koeman continues to make exactly the same mistakes over and over again. We have tried the three forwards recently and were woeful. We had no midfield when it was obvious to every we needed to flood it !!! Koeman picks the team and tactics just randomly with no thought at all....

It must be very demotivating for the players too... This guy is well off the pace...

I know the team were carp but Koeman gave us no chance tonight... There are few words to describe his inept decisions on all levels for this match. He didn't react at the weekend iether when again he was left wanting tactically and team sheet wise....

Very poor indeed ....

Poch is in another league as a manager...

[Leo_ARG]

We have one creative player in the entire squad (Tadic) and Koeman would rather his all defence tactic than play him

 

Yes. Finally people is starting to talk about the elefant in the room. I've been saying this for ages. The missing piece is a no 10 like Sigurosson, Mata, Ozil, Silva. That's the type of player we need.

 

While Tadic is maybe a winger, he does have a lot of vision and good decision making.

 

He has 5 goals and 4 assists in 1500 minutes while Mane has 3 goals and 6 assists in almost 1900 minutes. Tadic has done enough to play more minutes. The problem is that he doesen't have a good enough defensive work rate for Koeman's liking. That's the only explanation I can come up with because it's puzzling to see him benched after having one bad game while others get so many chances (Mane and Pelle, for example).

[Lord Duckhunter]

Post match thread closed?!

 

We are pretty fragile aren't we..

 

Suppose that sums up a mid able side

 

 

****ing joke , if you can't have a discussion on the game what on earth is the point of a forum . Unbelievable

[sadoldgit]

Koeman continues to make exactly the same mistakes over and over again. We have tried the three forwards recently and were woeful. We had no midfield when it was obvious to every we needed to flood it !!! Koeman picks the team and tactics just randomly with no thought at all....

It must be very demotivating for the players too... This guy is well off the pace...

I know the team were carp but Koeman gave us no chance tonight... There are few words to describe his inept decisions on all levels for this match. He didn't react at the weekend iether when again he was left wanting tactically and team sheet wise....

Very poor indeed ....

Poch is in another league as a manager...

 

Koeman picks the team and tactics randomly with no thought at all.........

[sadoldgit]

Yes. Finally people is starting to talk about the elefant in the room. I've been saying this for ages. The missing piece is a no 10 like Sigurosson, Mata, Ozil, Silva. That's the type of player we need.

 

While Tadic is maybe a winger, he does have a lot of vision and good decision making.

 

He has 5 goals and 4 assists in 1500 minutes while Mane has 3 goals and 6 assists in almost 1900 minutes. Tadic has done enough to play more minutes. The problem is that he doesen't have a good enough defensive work rate for Koeman's liking. That's the only explanation I can come up with because it's puzzling to see him benched after having one bad game while others get so many chances (Mane and Pelle, for example).

 

I like Tadic as a player, but what did he do tonight? On a brighter note Pelle looked more focussed when he came on tonight.

[Chalkboy]

RK reaction....

 

Disappointed

they were more aggressive from the start

not happy how we started

we never controlled the game

the pressed better, were sharper from the start

they had more belief and more aggression

we never gave as much as them

it was hard to match them from the start

if you dont start well it is hard

 

Can't disagree with his comments but I'd like to ask him why we didn't press better, why weren't we more aggressive, why weren't we sharper, why didn't we have more belief?

 

Player for player are they a better team than us?

 

Oh and why is the post-match thread locked already?

Edited 2 March, 2016 by Chalkboy

[niceandfriendly]

What's with the locking of all these threads? What's going on with this forum?

[Kingsbridge Saint]

We don't create because hardly anyone takes their man on anymore. It's not just us either. Hardly any attempts to turn the defence by someone hitting the by-line. And on the rare occasions they do, it often gets recycled back out and around again. It's all about ball retention and working it into the right 'Zone' (Zone 14, I believe), The UEFA Coaching Badge has a lot to answer for, so do OPTA stats. Sadly we have a Manager who seems to buy all that sterile crap and we have a team that struggles to create chances, or excitement.

[Mr Biscuits]

The whole team need to be a lot more ball hungry. The attitude simply has to be 'no, f*ck you, you're not having the ball it's mine'.

If players make a mistake they need to get after the ball immediately rather than just stand there and watch it go.

 

Too slow at the start my Arse - our defence has been and should be good enough to soak up that kind of pressure and turn the game round.

[Jack]

Nobody in the middle of the park was composed enough to put a foot on the ball and play through midfield. Too many rushed clearances and hopeful balls into the channels which just resulted in losing possession again. Sooo many sh*t lofted balls into attacking positions as well which never came off. What's that trying to achieve?! Mane spent more time having to challenge for headers than he did receiving the ball to feet.

 

Bournemouth worked hard and deserved to win, but if we'd been anywhere near as good as we can be we'd have beaten them, they're not very good and we pretty much gifted them their goals.

 

Ref had a shocker as well, bad decisions both ways but gave them everything they wanted.

[Wade Garrett]

1 or 2 definitely didn't stake a claim for a regular start.

 

All this slagging of Koeman is ridiculous though. I looked at our starting line-up and was pretty excited about the 3 up front. Davis dropped after a poor performance - fair enough. Clasie and Targett on the bench, ok, they probably don't have 3 premiership games a week in them. The team he put out were more than capable of getting something.

 

We had an off night. The manager was let down as much as we were. End of story.

[trousers]

1 or 2 definitely didn't stake a claim for a regular start.

 

All this slagging of Koeman is ridiculous though. I looked at our starting line-up and was pretty excited about the 3 up front. Davis dropped after a poor performance - fair enough. Clasie and Targett on the bench, ok, they probably don't have 3 premiership games a week in them. The team he put out were more than capable of getting something.

 

We had an off night. The manager was let down as much as we were. End of story.

Nail. Head.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I'm sorry but how u can pick on him tonight is beyond me. Was on no time at all. How'd Gallagher go last night?

 

What a cheap little shot, what's Gallagher got to do with Tadic? For those who think I am obsessional re Tadic should check out what RK has been saying about him this week. Yes he has skill, yes yes yes I don't disagree and he is our most creative player when things go well but he is ridiculously inconsistent, he has hardly completed 90 minutes for us ever and he is fragile in so many ways. I have no idea what he is like as a bloke, he might be a cracking lad, but I remember him doing his utmost to get that Norwich player sent off earlier this season which left a bad taste. Those who disagree with me, well football is all about opinions but ask yourself if he is so good how come RK hardly picks him these days.

[austsaint]

There was zero creativity in mid-field last night - Romeu had too much holding work to do with Ward-Prowse along side and Davis had a really off night when he came on. The fact that Saints got few corners or attacking free kicks really showed up the shortcomings in the rest of Ward-Prowse's game.

I felt a bit sorry for Mane, Long and Austin because there was no supply apart from hopeful long balls and square passes in midfield. It looked as though Tadic should have come on earlier but Bournmouth had such a head of steam up it was apparent nothing was going to turn the tide on the night. I'll bet Boruc enjoyed the night!!

[eddie]

I think that's fair. the key person we missed was clasie instead of JWP. there's not much more I'd have changed other than that.

 

they had serman and the other guy playing beside him in midfield, bossed it the whole game. We just didn't have anyone there who could work them (like clasie).

 

that's why when tadic came on koeman was shouting for sadio to get behind pelle (i.e. into that position to work the bournemouth centre mids), and JWP shifted to 'right wing'.

 

but that change of formation needed to happen way way earlier. after the 5 at the back failed and davis came on, long, austin and mane were all interchanging right out front, romeu was holding midfielder, and JWP/davis were also out wide. So we had noone staying in the centre of the park really except romeu, who isn't incisive enough with his passing - though he does a fairly good job of it to be fair.

 

we were beaten by the better team who were up for it more on a tuesday night. and for what it's worth, I thought pelle and tadic did alright in the circumstances (i.e. noone behind them giving them the ball). tadic dropped back consistently just to be able to touch the ball and try and bring it forward. but lets be honest, cedric, vvd, even romeu all had a spark of creativity.

[Verbal Kint]

What a cheap little shot, what's Gallagher got to do with Tadic? For those who think I am obsessional re Tadic should check out what RK has been saying about him this week. Yes he has skill, yes yes yes I don't disagree and he is our most creative player when things go well but he is ridiculously inconsistent, he has hardly completed 90 minutes for us ever and he is fragile in so many ways. I have no idea what he is like as a bloke, he might be a cracking lad, but I remember him doing his utmost to get that Norwich player sent off earlier this season which left a bad taste. Those who disagree with me, well football is all about opinions but ask yourself if he is so good how come RK hardly picks him these days.

 

Because he doesn't fit the 5-3-2 system and also because his form has dipped, as it will do with all players. If Tadic was consistent he'd be playing for a much bigger club than us.

 

I've always thought he would make a great no.10 as he has all the attributes to play there (except maybe not enough goals) and there will be less need for him to do the defensive work in that position. With Austin out for a while now I hope he gets a chance to play there. Even if he doesn't, hopefully we aren't going to see centre forwards played out wide again as it simply doesn't work. Play to our strengths, 4-4-1-1 or a 4-4-2

[sadoldgit]

Fair play to Bournemouth. They did what they had to do. Two soft goals but they deserved their win. We just weren't at the races last night. We are a much better team than that. You see by the look on Koeman's face that he was thinking WTF?

[corky morris]

We have lacked creativity for quite a while. Think we also lack pace & width too. Tadic is not the kind of player you want next to you in a battle. He doesn't have the bottle.

[david in sweden]

This is true. We have gained a lot of poikts through being effective and defensively sound rather than out footballing teams.

 

Probably havent had the majority of possession in five or six games now.

 

it's bit worse than that Charlie.

Won WBA game (3-0) with 9-9 in shots, since when, in the following 7 games - we had 61 shots v. 93 from opponents and yet were undefeated in 5 of those. (till Chelsea)

 

in the last 15 League / Cup games - we've won 6 yet only had the majority of possession in one of those games.

in the same period - we lost 7 games, yet had majority of possession in 5 of those + (1@50/50), and still lost.

 

Conclusion: possession isn't everything. At Arsenal we had only 33% yet drew 0-0 with 14 shots against their 21. At Man U won 1-0 with only 44% possession)

 

The defence has been more or less unchanged, but both Shane Long and Clasie played in 5 of those 6 wins. No other midfielder played that consistantly when we won .....

except (wait for it)... Victor Wanyama .. played in 5 of those 6 wins (we'd already won the WHam game through Yoshida's goal - when he was red-carded) since when only Shane Long's goal at Swansea - (not a convincing win) has given us any points at all....and now we've had 2 defeats on the trot.

 

The most disturbing aspect is that (according to RK)...the 3-5-2 formation, though moderately successful doesn't suit Tadic's style of play, and both Pelle and Mane last scored in 2015 ..whilst Santa Claus was still on his Autumn Spanish holiday.......

 

Shane Long has been the most successful player in terms of points winning, but his role, though fruitful, continues to stress his body and injuries occur more often.

 

We have a glut of midfield players (when not injured, or suspended (Victor:blush:), yet the balance is still not right, and it's clear that the type of opposition is the key factor in choosing WHO to play, rather than having an unchanged formation...... although t.b.f. no midfielder will expect to play over 30 games/season because of this fact.

 

In the past, we've (occasionally) had midfielders who get 2 - 4 goals a season, and strikers who score every 4 - 6 games - at present Shane Long is the only one scoring at all.

Tadic has DAJFU when coming on as " super-sub ", but really should be capable of adapting his game in the " new " formation .

Edited 2 March, 2016 by david in sweden

[ErwinK1961]

What a cheap little shot, what's Gallagher got to do with Tadic? For those who think I am obsessional re Tadic should check out what RK has been saying about him this week. Yes he has skill, yes yes yes I don't disagree and he is our most creative player when things go well but he is ridiculously inconsistent, he has hardly completed 90 minutes for us ever and he is fragile in so many ways. I have no idea what he is like as a bloke, he might be a cracking lad, but I remember him doing his utmost to get that Norwich player sent off earlier this season which left a bad taste. Those who disagree with me, well football is all about opinions but ask yourself if he is so good how come RK hardly picks him these days.

 

You could say that about the whole team.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

The club purchased players to play in a 4-2-3-1 system. That wasn't working so we switched it up to a 3-5-2 which is solid defensively but a mess going forward. That system relies on nabbing a goal and not conceding. It is not good football to watch as it is essentially full backs providing width and then 6 players defending well (the three central defenders and three central midfielders).

 

The long term future of this team / club is 4-2-3-1 - but it is good to have a 3-5-2 for certain games.

 

Some of our players don't fit a 3-5-2 - Tadic is probably the biggest victim.

[sadoldgit]

It will be interesting to see how many goals Austin gets now he is getting Pelle level service. Sadly it seems it will be several weeks before we find out though.

[The9]

You have to have the ball to be creative, we barely had it yesterday and Bournemouth worked very hard to close down everyone off the ball so there were no "easy" passes except the one back to our defenders (which we use far too often anyway).

 

Last night's issue wasn't creativity, it was getting done over tactically, not working hard enough to make things happen and just not doing the basics.

 

Even with Long and Austin on the pitch up top as a pair, the number of times they moved enough to open up a pass to them could be counted on one hand. We conceded way too much territory down the side before and even after the tactical change, and because there was a need for a striker to track back it either meant they weren't up front to win a ball when we hoofed it away, or Bournemouth created a chance and we reset with a goal kick. Cedric was left completely exposed all night and on a few occasions we looked for an outlet to the wing in midfield and there simply was no player there.

 

The few times we did get the ball on the floor wide the quality of pass in behind the defence was either not good enough (and often went off the pitch), it was a low-success cross which only found defenders, or (later on), our strikers were offside from having to wait and wait for the ball to come forward.

[sambosa75]

If anyone can't see this team are lacking a ball playing number 10 capable of holding the ball up so others can get past him, picking a pass and even hitting one in the top corner every so often, I worry for them.

 

Our attacking is so woefully one dimensional and has been for a while. We labour the ball in to the channels and then cut it back for the full back to swing in a cross. If the opposition are able to deal with that, we then go on to struggle as nobody seems to have the ability to make a difference through the middle.