vindaloo Posted 29 February, 2016 Share Posted 29 February, 2016 Have a read of this article. Some interesting stats in here. https://www.the-newshub.com/football/the-gamblers-fallacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 29 February, 2016 Share Posted 29 February, 2016 Bit of a silly article really. Academies go through stages and even when we got some gems there were other years when we didn't produce much. We aren't going to produce world beaters every single season and we never have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onthemarch Posted 1 March, 2016 Share Posted 1 March, 2016 An interesting article - and good to see a different take on things. We can't all keep reading the same old rubbish articles on BBC/Sky etc - it is good to see people using stats in a different way & not just using traditional methods of analysing football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 1 March, 2016 Share Posted 1 March, 2016 (edited) Not the most convincing argument IMHO. The list excluded Wayne Bridge who must be considered to be the first real big money sell from the Academy (proper). He played 150+ games for Saints at Prem.level before movingChelsea, likewise it also left out Andrew Surman and Nathan Dyer (who Saints were forced to sell in the 2009 crisis) but both still made it to the Prem. The charts are a bit arbitrary as the age of 24 is not necessarily a benchmark for anything....why not 23, 22 ...or 21 ? Some of the " famous " names (above) left us whilst still in their teens, the exceptions being Bridge and Surman who were still only 22 when sold. Dyer was only 20. It must be noted that we were playing below Prem. level with some of those early "sells" and naturally they looked good prospects for "clubs with fat bank accounts" who were used to spending far more on their player signings, and could afford to take a chance with a young prospect, and nurse them along in their own U21 sides. With more and more costly foreign signings coming into the Prem. it's going to be harder for young players to make it - even if we'd like to think they might. As for the "Koeman comment " about lack of quality, ....for what it's worth I agree with him. Pochettino's "reputation for bringing on young players " (and to some degree Koeman too) ...are a bit of a fallacy, as both were forced to bring in youngsters at a time when we had massive first team injury problems, but few ever showed any signs of being good enough to displace the incumbent. At present there a few names who leave their mark in Academy games...Reed, Hesketh, McCarthy and McQueen in the U21s...and a few younger lads like Callum Slattery and Alfie Jones in the younger age group.......but at present ....no-one who looks even remotely likely to displace anyone in the first team squad on a permanent basis. All players - regardless of their age /experience go through a purple patch of good games, but young Rashford (at Man.Utd) has taken his chances well, but like James Wilson last season .....wouldn't have got near their bench in ordinary circumstances. If Rashford is still featuring in matches, and scoring goals at the end of the season ..the media will start calling him the " new Harry Kane / Deli Alli ".......it's bu** sh*t! Saints Academy will continue to produce good prospects, and some of them may make it to become Prem. players, but unless they move to " a top four club" and for a big fee, their names will be forgotten in a few years; like those of Bridge, Surman and Dyer. Edited 1 March, 2016 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onthemarch Posted 3 March, 2016 Share Posted 3 March, 2016 interesting stuff - who is likely to be the next big thing? seem to be a lot of false dawns - Reed, Hasketh etc Anyone go any ideas of who will cut the mustard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 3 March, 2016 Share Posted 3 March, 2016 interesting stuff - who is likely to be the next big thing? seem to be a lot of false dawns - Reed, Hasketh etc Anyone go any ideas of who will cut the mustard Reed got a few games because of injuries to the regulars, but last season there was no way he was going to get ahead of Alderweireld or Wanyama. I'm not going to say that his lack of height is a problem, I've seen lots of players of short stature over the years who were great.. ....but Koeman and Pochettino never consulted me about team selection......and t.b.f. Romeu is proving his worth now. Hesketh was a player who got a well-deserved chance last season in the away game at Burnley, but got yellow-carded and was first to be subbed. Once again proving that the gap between U21 and Prem. can be quite a jump for some players. Jake H. is still young and improving all the time. Quite a few youth players at both U18 and U21 have had serious injury problems this season, and the best prospects for the first team bench, are already out on loan. A good way to get real game time, but until they can cut their teeth on real football matches,even at L1/L2 level so they're not likely to feature this season. It's wrong to expect the Academy to function like a conveyor belt - some players make it to a good level, but many of those who played alongside Walcott and Bale 10 years ago in the U18sides have been lost in the mists of times and their names occasionally pop up in the National League or even lower levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfahaji Posted 4 March, 2016 Share Posted 4 March, 2016 Hesketh was a player who got a well-deserved chance last season in the away game at Burnley, but got yellow-carded and was first to be subbed. Once again proving that the gap between U21 and Prem. can be quite a jump for some players. Jake H. is still young and improving all the time. Pretty sure Hesketh was taken off because he was injured after a terrible challenge from a Burnley player (it felt a bit like 'revenge' for him challenging their keeper for the yellow card you reference), it wasn't because he was off the pace. If anything, I recall he actually showed some promising signs. Reading this article alerted me to the fact that Mane is only 23 years old. Bearing in mind that JWP is only 2 years younger, it puts in perspective that Sadio is still learning his trade and it is probably wrong for us to expect him to consistently turn in the match winning performances we know he is capable of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Jude Posted 4 March, 2016 Share Posted 4 March, 2016 Chatting to Sir Alex F at lunch yesterday... and he had some interesting views about youth players coming through... how much scouting versus coaching made a difference... and 'managers' giving youngsters opportunity ... mostly chatted around LVG and the youngsters he's been 'forced' to start... He said it took him 4 years to get youngsters to have an impact in the first team... and was roughly a 4 years cycle... i.e. if kids aren't making it into the first team... you need to look back at what was happening 4 years before.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 4 March, 2016 Share Posted 4 March, 2016 Chatting to Sir Alex F at lunch yesterday... and he had some interesting views about youth players coming through... how much scouting versus coaching made a difference... and 'managers' giving youngsters opportunity ... mostly chatted around LVG and the youngsters he's been 'forced' to start... He said it took him 4 years to get youngsters to have an impact in the first team... and was roughly a 4 years cycle... i.e. if kids aren't making it into the first team... you need to look back at what was happening 4 years before.... Name dropper! Seriously tho would have loved to have been part of that chat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 4 March, 2016 Share Posted 4 March, 2016 Have a read of this article. Some interesting stats in here. https://www.the-newshub.com/football/the-gamblers-fallacy That article is a disgrace and must be written by a poopey fan. No youth players of a better calibre than Yoshida? We have JWP and Target playing most matches. Ridiculous article written by someone who has not idea about the academy plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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