St Marys v King Power

[spyinthesky]

As far as I am aware the two stadiums are of more or less identical construction with very similar capacities

 

However notice that both Saints and Leicester games were 'sold out' but our crowd was about 600 down on Leicester

 

Presumably there is similar segregation etc

 

Were some of our corporate areas not fully occupied?

[Daft Kerplunk]

There's many reasons why this would be the case: no shows, returns etc.

 

But it won't be the case that the two stadiums are similar size for long as Leicester, like a number of other clubs, are adding more capacity to their stadiums.

[alehouseboys]

Out of all the Barr constructed stadiums these two are the closest look-alikes but there are subtle differences. Every seat was sold Saturday, even after the ticket exchange system so there must be differences in segregation/number of seats held back for various reasons.

[teacher]

There's many reasons why this would be the case: no shows, returns etc.

 

But it won't be the case that the two stadiums are similar size for long as Leicester, like a number of other clubs, are adding more capacity to their stadiums.

 

If we don't increase capacity I think that we will be left behind!

[Miltonaggro]

I think that the plans went in for expansion of the King Power last summer, south and east stands into two tier on similar lines to the Stadium of Light (Leicester system is identical to Saints, Barr 'bolt on' extensions) putting 10k on the capacity to 42500. This would give them a similar capacity to Villa (7th largest in Prem), with Chelsea next on 41800.

[Nordic Saint]

The new FFP regulations make stadium expansion a matter of some urgency, which is why so many clubs are doing it now. Good luck to Leicester. It will help establish them as a top club.

[Jonnyboy]

We have that stupid gap between the Northam and away fans.

[doddisalegend]

If we don't increase capacity I think that we will be left behind!

 

Why it's not like the SMS is sold out that often and the TV money will dwarf anything the club will get for filling a few thousand extra seats for those games that do sell out.

[Nordic Saint]

We have that stupid gap between the Northam and away fans.

 

The whole Northam setup is a stupid mess and the empty swathe of seats directly behind the goal is a real eyesore and an embarrassment when goals at that end are shown on TV. Why can't the singers create a proper home end behind the goal in the Chapel Stand???

[spyinthesky]

If we don't increase capacity I think that we will be left behind!

 

If Leicester do intend to increase capacity they will join Spurs 61,000, Chelsea 55,000, West Ham 54,000 Liverpool 57,000 who are all increasing capacity with Everton likely to look at new or improved facilities with new owners.

[nta786]

people argue about the whole 'financial side of things' and how increasing seats might not bring that extra revenue/it isn't worth it-

 

but for me it's more than that- if possible, we should be looking to expand and cheapen the seats, subsidise for the fans and allows more to go.

if we are the model club i'd love for us to expand and then make tickets 20/30 max- one can dream!

[Goatboy]

I'd settle for hand dryers.

[Gemmel]

people argue about the whole 'financial side of things' and how increasing seats might not bring that extra revenue/it isn't worth it-

 

but for me it's more than that- if possible, we should be looking to expand and cheapen the seats, subsidise for the fans and allows more to go.

if we are the model club i'd love for us to expand and then make tickets 20/30 max- one can dream!

 

Oh sh!t you've done it now....................... Take cover.

[kwsaint]

To be fair we haven't had a thread on stadium expansion for at least a couple of weeks

[Sour Mash]

people argue about the whole 'financial side of things' and how increasing seats might not bring that extra revenue/it isn't worth it-

 

but for me it's more than that- if possible, we should be looking to expand and cheapen the seats, subsidise for the fans and allows more to go.

if we are the model club i'd love for us to expand and then make tickets 20/30 max- one can dream!

Who pays for it then?

[northam soul]

We have that stupid gap between the Northam and away fans.

 

And for the last few seasons the netting in the itchen corner on the away fans side.

Never used to be there so must be an old bill requirement.

[ecuk268]

Ms Liebherr has stated that the club has to pay it's way.

 

Using very rough calculations based on expansion costing about £3000 per seat, an increase of 10000 would cost £30m. If all of those extra seats were filled for every league game they would bring in just over £7m per season. So, about 4 years to get your money back. If you go for cheaper ticket prices then, of course, this period would be longer.

 

Doesn't sound unreasonable but we all know how quickly fortunes can change in football. If RK leaves at the end of his contract his replacement may not be as good. A slump in form can lead to a fall in attendances.

 

Would we fill 42000 seats? If we were doing well then possibly. I think that Ms Liebherr would need to see 3 or 4 years of us getting European football before she considered spending that amount of cash.

[nta786]

Who pays for it then?

 

Get the taxpayer

[The9]

To be fair we haven't had a thread on stadium expansion for at least a couple of weeks

 

I'd say nearer minutes.

 

Apart from anything else, the stadiums aren't identical so I have no idea why anyone would assume the capacities were.

[CB Fry]

Ms Liebherr has stated that the club has to pay it's way.

 

Using very rough calculations based on expansion costing about £3000 per seat, an increase of 10000 would cost £30m. If all of those extra seats were filled for every league game they would bring in just over £7m per season. So, about 4 years to get your money back. If you go for cheaper ticket prices then, of course, this period would be longer.

 

Doesn't sound unreasonable but we all know how quickly fortunes can change in football. If RK leaves at the end of his contract his replacement may not be as good. A slump in form can lead to a fall in attendances.

 

Would we fill 42000 seats? If we were doing well then possibly. I think that Ms Liebherr would need to see 3 or 4 years of us getting European football before she considered spending that amount of cash.

 

I'm glad us selling 10,000 extra seats for every single game doesn't feel unreasonable to you.

[ecuk268]

I'm glad us selling 10,000 extra seats for every single game doesn't feel unreasonable to you.

 

I said that the economics weren't unreasonable if we sold the extra seats. Whether we would sell them is a different argument.

[kitch]

I'd settle for hand dryers.

 

[Clapham Saint]

I said that the economics weren't unreasonable if we sold the extra seats. Whether we would sell them is a different argument.

 

A £30m loan over 20 years at 7% (all guesses at what we would be able to negotiate obviously), would require monthly repayments of £232,600 just under £2.8m per year.

 

If (big if) they were priced at £35 per seat we'd need to sell 4,211 of them to cover the cost.

[notnowcato]

A £30m loan over 20 years at 7% (all guesses at what we would be able to negotiate obviously), would require monthly repayments of £232,600 just under £2.8m per year.

 

If (big if) they were priced at £35 per seat we'd need to sell 4,211 of them to cover the cost.

 

All so we can have 10,000 extra seats?? Madness.

[Charlie Wayman]

Gate income is so insignificant now compared to the new TV money coming in that it is very unlikely the ground will ever be expanded. As long as the TV cameras see only packed terraces in their restricted field of view that's all they and the owners care about.

 

As Ronald keeps banging on, competition for places makes everyone keener to get in on the action so for players read spectators. The only response to "Full House" boards every week will be higher prices!

[Whitey Grandad]

All so we can have 10,000 extra seats?? Madness.

 

Not necessarily. If there's a business case for it then it's very sensible. If you followed your argument then a 10,000 seat stadium would be ample. How do you think Old Trafford ended up the size that it is?

[hasper57saint]

Where are the facilities for 10,000 extra people? Parking is difficult at present,the railway is closed alongside the stadium,the toilet facilities are currently inadequate and access to the stadium requires a big rethink.All in all to accommodate the increase we will need a new stadium outside the city and close to the rail/road network.Will Kat put up the money?

Edited 1 March, 2016 by hasper57saint
Syntax

[Matthew Le God]

If Leicester do intend to increase capacity they will join Spurs 61,000, Chelsea 55,000, West Ham 54,000 Liverpool 57,000 who are all increasing capacity with Everton likely to look at new or improved facilities with new owners.

 

Chelsea are planning for 60,000...

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/chelsea/12026719/Chelsea-submit-plan-for-new-60000-seat-Stamford-Bridge.html

 

West Ham's might be 60,000 according David Gold today...

 

David Gold ‏@davidgold 6h6 hours ago

David Gold Retweeted Scott

Yes, it's possible that the capacity of the new stadium will rise to 60,000 for the start of the new season. dg

Liverpool's plan is for 59,000...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-29314614

 

Gate income is so insignificant now compared to the new TV money coming in that it is very unlikely the ground will ever be expanded.

 

Yes, the TV money is huge and it reduces the % of the income coming from gate money, but why are so many other Premier League clubs expanding their capacities?

 

Crystal Palace

Everton

Liverpool

Spurs

West Ham

Chelsea

 

Are all either already in the process of expanding their capacity (Liverpool), moving stadium (West Ham, Spurs), redeveloping current stadium (Chelsea) or likely to be looking to expand in the near future due to recent investment (Palace & Everton).

 

Others like Stoke, Leicester etc probably look to increase and if Bournemouth stay up this season they have said they will spend to expand.

[Shandy_Top_89]

Most of these clubs expanding / building their grounds have larger support bases than Saints (Liverpool, Spurs, West Ham, Man City, Chelsea, Crystal Palace) or are smaller clubs that are simply growing beyond their current facilities (Bournemouth). I'd also argue that despite Saints upturn in fortunes, we are not the dominant force in the local area that we once were. Pompeys brief spell as the top team on the south coast will probably have cost us 5-8 years of young supporters in the m27 corridor and Bournemouth will now retain support in Dorset and the Western portion of the New Forest / Ringwood. Also Eastleigh may well start to hold their own support if they continue to improve.

 

We don't sell St.Marys out for most fixtures, where a lot of Premier League clubs do and I'd say it would take Champions League football for that to change. As much as I'd love to see a 42,000 capacity and significantly spruced up St.Marys (because at 15 years old it already looks like a bit of a tin shed on the exterior), it's going to be a few years of support building before it becomes warranted.

 

No shame in having a 32,000 capacity stadium when it meets our needs, ticket revenue isn't a huge part of club turnover so it's unlikely to mean we will fall behind.

[Matthew Le God]

Most of these clubs expanding / building their grounds have larger support bases than Saints (Liverpool, Spurs, West Ham, Man City, Chelsea, Crystal Palace) or are smaller clubs that are simply growing beyond their current facilities (Bournemouth).

 

On what basis do you think Crystal Palace have a bigger support base than Southampton?

 

If you look at averages in the Championship season both were promoted...

 

2011/12 - Saints = 26,420

2012/13 - Palace = 16,933

 

Those are two successful seasons in the same league and Saints had circa 10,000 extra people on average.

 

I agree West Ham do have more fans than us, but do you really think the gap is 28,000 (if David Gold gets his 60,000 capacity I linked to earlier)? The gap shouldn't be as big as that between ours and their stadium capacities.

[Daft Kerplunk]

Ultimately, stadium size reflects ambition. When we played at the dell last, we had just over 15k a game and many people said we'd struggle to fill 25k let alone 32k.

 

It's not a case of build it and they will come but if we play good football, and the growth of the game and its popularity continues (which many teams clearly think it will do if they are adding capacity) then we would make stadium expansion pay its way.

[simo]

I'd settle for hand dryers.

 

A Pa system that you can hear past row Aa would help too !

[spyinthesky]

Gate income is so insignificant now compared to the new TV money coming in that it is very unlikely the ground will ever be expanded. As long as the TV cameras see only packed terraces in their restricted field of view that's all they and the owners care about.

 

 

Charlie

Agree with you re comparison with TV revenue but not too shabby

I read somewhere (not sure which club - Everton perhaps?) that gate revenue equated to 25% of their income

If you look at theoretical figure from St Marys potential revenue could possibly be;

20,000 season tickets at average £500 = £10.0m

10,000 day tickets x £30 x 19 games = £5.7m

47 boxes x £50k = £2.45m

Add food/programmes etc = £1.71m

based on 30k x £3 x 19 games

Say +/- £20m

 

So well below TV revenue but nonetheless not insignificant

[doddisalegend]

I don't want a stadium size increase if it's just going to filled up with ****s like the bloke in a half and half scarf a couple of rows behind me on Saturday who some how lost his ****ing hat and then made a big ****ing noise about it. Are the clubs making these big stadium increases doing it for proper supporters of the team to get seats or because they hope to fill the place up with day trippers and PL tourists taking selfies and politely clapping both sides....

[CB Fry]

I said that the economics weren't unreasonable if we sold the extra seats. Whether we would sell them is a different argument.

 

 

Where I come from the "economics" of a business decision do tend to require actually selling the thing you are planning to sink investmet into. You don't split the two. It's the same argument.

[The9]

On what basis do you think Crystal Palace have a bigger support base than Southampton?

 

If you look at averages in the Championship season both were promoted...

 

2011/12 - Saints = 26,420

2012/13 - Palace = 16,933

 

Those are two successful seasons in the same league and Saints had circa 10,000 extra people on average.

 

I agree West Ham do have more fans than us, but do you really think the gap is 28,000 (if David Gold gets his 60,000 capacity I linked to earlier)? The gap shouldn't be as big as that between ours and their stadium capacities.

 

I'd say that the demand for London-based Premier League football is significant and there are a lot of tourists (a small percentage, but still a lot of people) who will go to any Prem game they can get into just to have done that. Southampton doesn't have that urban tourist base, and the same tourist demand isn't there for Championship football, so Championship comparisons might be moot.

[The9]

Gate income is so insignificant now compared to the new TV money coming in that it is very unlikely the ground will ever be expanded. As long as the TV cameras see only packed terraces in their restricted field of view that's all they and the owners care about.

 

 

Charlie

Agree with you re comparison with TV revenue but not too shabby

I read somewhere (not sure which club - Everton perhaps?) that gate revenue equated to 25% of their income

If you look at theoretical figure from St Marys potential revenue could possibly be;

20,000 season tickets at average £500 = £10.0m

10,000 day tickets x £30 x 19 games = £5.7m

47 boxes x £50k = £2.45m

Add food/programmes etc = £1.71m

based on 30k x £3 x 19 games

Say +/- £20m

 

So well below TV revenue but nonetheless not insignificant

 

Becoming far less significant as the tv money goes up this year. There's a strong argument that a bigger ground means you can also sell more merchandise to the higher numbers of occasional customers you get than the stuff around filling seats for every match. We could get more money by selling our shirts abroad via impulse buy, rather than assuming mail order will meet the demand too, but the long and short of it is that we'll have to be more successful to drive revenue up in most of these areas.