Atkinson decisions yesterday.

[Pilchards]

It's puzzling how a Chelsea player can kick one of ours up the arse and the assistant waves his flag but was ignored.

Atkinson's waved the play on to give Chelsea the advantage and yet they committed the foul.

Did he go back to the assistant afterwards to discuss it?

Strange decision to go along with the others from yesterday.

[Toussaint]

General consensus amongst my group yesterday was he influenced the outcome of the game with his poor decisions and lack of authority over the Chelsea prima-donnas.

[angelman]

There were some poor decisions yesterday. But that seems to have become the norm now and to be expected, and as there were fewer or less blatant ones than there often are in games, it seems to have been accepted as an OK performance without need for much discussion. The foul before the 1st goal and Atkinson over ruling it....well, that was just plain wrong. I wonder if he had read that article about which refs favour/"hate" clubs, and given that he favoured us more than others, he felt the need to not be overly generous (nb I'm not being serious!)

[Whitey Grandad]

It's puzzling how a Chelsea player can kick one of ours up the arse and the assistant waves his flag but was ignored.

Atkinson's waved the play on to give Chelsea the advantage and yet they committed the foul.

Did he go back to the assistant afterwards to discuss it?

Strange decision to go along with the others from yesterday.

 

Very strange. As a linesman you are told when flagging for a foul to raise the flag in the hand that indicates which team should benefit so that the referee can decide whether to play advantage. I was watching their interaction very carefully yesterday and it seemed to me that Atkinson looked a bit puzzled by the flag and hadn't seen the kick and just assumed that it was for the initial incident. Bizarre.

 

He overruled both of his assistants which is poor man-management, especially when they're correct.

 

I would have given a penalty against Cahill. I don't know what more he could have done to deserve it apart from the handball and cleaning-out of Austin.

[simo]

It got to the point where the lino's were waiting for him to decide which way the throw ins were going before they raised their flags !

[John Boy Saint]

The Officials have communications, he should have kept his finger on his flag button and told him "no the other way" as he signalled the wrong advantage.

What is the point of having technology assistance, if you ain't going to use it as it should be used.

[Fabrice29]

The Officials have communications, he should have kept his finger on his flag button and told him "no the other way" as he signalled the wrong advantage.

What is the point of having technology assistance, if you ain't going to use it as it should be used.

 

Exactly this. Lino has to take just as much blame. He should be screaming down the mic that he's missed a kick out and there is no advantage.

[Saint-Fred]

The bookings were strange too.. It seemed persistently fouling was OK for a number of their players with ours being booked for single offences?

[Shroppie]

Exactly this. Lino has to take just as much blame. He should be screaming down the mic that he's missed a kick out and there is no advantage.

Agreed. Exactly what I thought at the time. I get a feeling that they realised the mistake but didn't want to deal with a Chelsea reaction if they'd pulled it back. And the media would have been on Chelsea's side too.

 

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[Saint Charlie]

No suprise. He is one of the worst ref's IMO, and thats impressive in itself.

[Pilchards]

Agreed. Exactly what I thought at the time. I get a feeling that they realised the mistake but didn't want to deal with a Chelsea reaction if they'd pulled it back. And the media would have been on Chelsea's side too.

 

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Why would the media be on Chelsea side too?

[Toadhall Saint]

The bookings were strange too.. It seemed persistently fouling was OK for a number of their players with ours being booked for single offences?

 

This

[hasper57saint]

Why would the media be on Chelsea side too?

 

Because most of them are Londocentric.

PS. Read the reports in today's papers.How many have discussed the ineptitude of Atkinson?

[Shroppie]

Why would the media be on Chelsea side too?

Big team.

 

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[Berkeley Saint]

The Lino should have kept his flag up (like they do in Rugby) and get the ref to come back to him after the event....

 

The header was probably a foul by Cedric, but then their LB kicked out at him as they were coming down to ground... so foul play

 

If there was video ref (like in Rugby) then that would have been overturned !

[Fitzhugh Fella]

It got to the point where the lino's were waiting for him to decide which way the throw ins were going before they raised their flags !

 

 

Most linos do that anyway week in week out. I thought both men were very poor yesterday and Atkinson correctly over ruled them several times. He obviously had little faith in them and was reffing solo towards the end, no wonder mistakes were made.

[Lord Duckhunter]

The Lino should have kept his flag up (like they do in Rugby) and get the ref to come back to him after the event....

 

The header was probably a foul by Cedric, but then their LB kicked out at him as they were coming down to ground... so foul play

 

If there was video ref (like in Rugby) then that would have been overturned !

 

Once the ref waves play on the Lino had to put the flag down and continue with his game . He can't stand there in defiance of the Ref . The ref acknowledged he'd seen a foul by giving the " play on" action . He only stands there if the ref didn't see his flag .

[Shroppie]

Once the ref waves play on the Lino had to put the flag down and continue with his game . He can't stand there in defiance of the Ref . The ref acknowledged he'd seen a foul by giving the " play on" action . He only stands there if the ref didn't see his flag .

But they can communicate. Did the assistant say the free kick was to Saints and get overruled? Guess we'll never know.

 

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[stockportsaint]

Consensus on MOTD was that it should have been a penalty for the foul on Austin/handball, and that the ref had missed the kick by the Chelsea defender (Bennett?)

[Dalek2003]

Most of you are right. But, 'swings and roundabouts'. What's done is done and a win against Bournemouth is what matters now.

 

Hey, if you think things are bad, trying living up here in Norwich amongst the doom and gloom.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Most of you are right. But, 'swings and roundabouts'. What's done is done and a win against Bournemouth is what matters now.

 

Hey, if you think things are bad, trying living up here in Norwich amongst the doom and gloom.

 

You should love it up there as you thrive on doom and gloom with you endless carp about going down

 

Get on their forums at least there you would have accuracy with your posts predicting relegation

[derry]

Consensus on MOTD was that it should have been a penalty for the foul on Austin/handball, and that the ref had missed the kick by the Chelsea defender (Bennett?)

 

Kenedy.

[Batman]

Michael Oliver is probably the best ref. Been very good for a while. Obviously not perfect but easily one of the better ones

[david in sweden]

The bookings were strange too.. It seemed persistently fouling was OK for a number of their players with ours being booked for single offences?

 

" Another ref." might well have booked Ivanovic a couple of times in the first half for his running battle with Long.

 

He should have felt lucky to still be on the pitch to score their winner.

[david in sweden]

The Lino should have kept his flag up (like they do in Rugby) and get the ref to come back to him after the event....

 

The header was probably a foul by Cedric, but then their LB kicked out at him as they were coming down to ground... so foul play

 

If there was video ref (like in Rugby) then that would have been overturned !

 

that's been my argument for years, maybe "Sepp Blatter's successor" may extend that facility to the whole game, not just the occasional goal-line incidents.

[Dalek2003]

You should love it up there as you thrive on doom and gloom with you endless carp about going down

 

Get on their forums at least there you would have accuracy with your posts predicting relegation

 

I have enough of that down the Adam and Eve

[badgerx16]

It got to the point where the lino's were waiting for him to decide which way the throw ins were going before they raised their flags !

Most linos do that anyway week in week out.

Years ago there was a TV documentary following David Ellery, and before a match, ( I think at Craven Cottage ), he said to the linesmen "I will indicate to you which way a throw-in is to be given".

Edited 28 February, 2016 by badgerx16

[Whitey Grandad]

But they can communicate. Did the assistant say the free kick was to Saints and get overruled? Guess we'll never know.

 

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By holding his flag in his right hand he indicates that it should be a foul in our favour. Atkinson seemed puzzled for a fraction of a second before showing 'advantage'. The assistant could have pointed to his chest pocket to indicate that a card could be involved but what are the mikes for?

[rallyboy]

I just hope this doesn't become as legendary as the Kevin Friend performance that actually cost us places last year.

If Chelsea finish three points above us and we lose out on European qualification then Mr Atkinson can take his place among the elite of crap referees.

 

I'd rather he or Kevin went and knackered Leicester's title challenge - it is well within their range of incompetence to achieve that.

 

And to the swings and roundabouts brigade - I cannot recall a game where we have benefited to the extent that we have lost out on these two occasions.

Winning the odd dodgy throw-in does not make up for denied penalties or goals unfairly conceded.

They do not even out.

[Shroppie]

I just hope this doesn't become as legendary as the Kevin Friend performance that actually cost us places last year.

If Chelsea finish three points above us and we lose out on European qualification then Mr Atkinson can take his place among the elite of crap referees.

 

I'd rather he or Kevin went and knackered Leicester's title challenge - it is well within their range of incompetence to achieve that.

 

And to the swings and roundabouts brigade - I cannot recall a game where we have benefited to the extent that we have lost out on these two occasions.

Winning the odd dodgy throw-in does not make up for denied penalties or goals unfairly conceded.

They do not even out.

Agreed. One appalling decision and another very doubtful one cost us three points and gifted them yo Chelsea.

 

I don't agree with the "they were better than us and it was coming anyway" brigade. Chelsea were frustrated and this gave them the break they needed and broke our concentration.

 

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[Toomer]

The Steven Davis booking was a strange one as well.

[corky morris]

Dermot Gallager (x-ref) on Sky Sports just said he got both decisions right. It wasn't a foul or a penalty with Cahill & Austin And linesman was wrong, no foul & it wasn't a kick out by Kennedy.

Apparently Kennedys momentum meant that his leg came out...................even the co host was surprised at that one.

Just makes you realise how detached they are from the game.

[The9]

Very strange. As a linesman you are told when flagging for a foul to raise the flag in the hand that indicates which team should benefit so that the referee can decide whether to play advantage. I was watching their interaction very carefully yesterday and it seemed to me that Atkinson looked a bit puzzled by the flag and hadn't seen the kick and just assumed that it was for the initial incident. Bizarre.

 

He overruled both of his assistants which is poor man-management, especially when they're correct.

 

I would have given a penalty against Cahill. I don't know what more he could have done to deserve it apart from the handball and cleaning-out of Austin.

 

Not being funny but I was at the other end of the stadium and I saw the linesman flag AND that he'd moved his flag to his right hand and the right side of his body so Atkinson should have known exactly what it was for - it was definitely a foul even after the barge, because Kenedy kicked out at Cedric. I didn't actually see the foul, I was watching the ball, but I saw the flag go up and it was clear from around 100 yards away side on to the linesman which way he was giving the foul.

 

(Mind you I also thought the ball might have been out when Costa kept it in, and that Hazard was in an offside position which he wasn't, and didn't remember Fabregas even having the ball, so it's interesting what you "remember").

[The9]

The Steven Davis booking was a strange one as well.

 

Tackle from behind where he had to go through the man to get to the ball, couldn't see much wrong with that decision, only the similar ones he didn't punish by Chelsea.

[The9]

Dermot Gallager (x-ref) on Sky Sports just said he got both decisions right. It wasn't a foul or a penalty with Cahill & Austin And linesman was wrong, no foul & it wasn't a kick out by Kennedy.

Apparently Kennedys momentum meant that his leg came out...................even the co host was surprised at that one.

Just makes you realise how detached they are from the game.

 

The strange one is that refs when not giving a foul usually signal "no foul" with their hands palms down crossing then uncrossing, or "advantage" by holding their arms out in front of them, palms up. Atkinson played advantage earlier in the game by putting his arms out in front of him, then when the ball went backwards, continued to motion like that, changing the direction he was gesticulating in, until the ball actually went forwards.

 

He used the same gesture after the Kenedy/Cedric incident, which meant he was playing advantage to Chelsea, and that he had completely misread the linesman's signal - given that they also have earpieces in to communicate with their colleagues I can only assume they then decided not to speak any further than "no foul" (in either direction) or the linesman would have just continued to flag, realising the ref had misread his signal. Either way, complete debacle of a decision and there's no way Atkinson could see Kenedy's kick at the angle he was at anyway.

[The9]

I just hope this doesn't become as legendary as the Kevin Friend performance that actually cost us places last year.

If Chelsea finish three points above us and we lose out on European qualification then Mr Atkinson can take his place among the elite of crap referees.

 

I'd rather he or Kevin went and knackered Leicester's title challenge - it is well within their range of incompetence to achieve that.

 

And to the swings and roundabouts brigade - I cannot recall a game where we have benefited to the extent that we have lost out on these two occasions.

Winning the odd dodgy throw-in does not make up for denied penalties or goals unfairly conceded.

They do not even out.

 

The standard responses from the 2 or 3 times this has gone around this forum are "foul on Sterling by Fonte" in the Kevin Friend game, and "handball by Fonte not given" in the Newcastle game which got us 2 more points. Even then you can still argue Friend cost us a 6 point swing to Liverpool and 5th or 6th place, thereby avoiding the Europa qualifiers.

[Whitey Grandad]

The strange one is that refs when not giving a foul usually signal "no foul" with their hands palms down crossing then uncrossing, or "advantage" by holding their arms out in front of them, palms up. Atkinson played advantage earlier in the game by putting his arms out in front of him, then when the ball went backwards, continued to motion like that, changing the direction he was gesticulating in, until the ball actually went forwards.

 

He used the same gesture after the Kenedy/Cedric incident, which meant he was playing advantage to Chelsea, and that he had completely misread the linesman's signal - given that they also have earpieces in to communicate with their colleagues I can only assume they then decided not to speak any further than "no foul" (in either direction) or the linesman would have just continued to flag, realising the ref had misread his signal. Either way, complete debacle of a decision and there's no way Atkinson could see Kenedy's kick at the angle he was at anyway.

 

I think Atkinson must have missed the kick and therefore coldn't understand why the Assistant flagged. Whatever, it's rare to undermine your associate referees in that manner. Blow for the foul, get clarification , administer any necessary disciplinary action and then proceed with a free kick to the appropriate team.

 

There was still plenty of time to get the defence sorted after this so we shouldn't really use it as an excuse. However stopping playing and appealing for a ball over the line whilst a feeble cross creeps past you is just unprofessional.

[rooney]

Perhaps one day,just perhaps, the refs will come out after the game so that the interviewers can ask why they made a certain decision.

[Whitey Grandad]

Perhaps one day,just perhaps, the refs will come out after the game so that the interviewers can ask why they made a certain decision.

 

That would help a lot. I'm all for it providing it were done in a non-confrontational manner.

[Leicestersaint]

he's a poor referee, but not as bad as Mr Friend and that Liverpool game.

[manzo]

Tackle from behind where he had to go through the man to get to the ball, couldn't see much wrong with that decision, only the similar ones he didn't punish by Chelsea.

 

Davies pulled him back, could see it clear as day from the Chapel, definite card.

[Deano6]

It was a bit of a kick and could have been called a free kick or not - however there was still plenty of opportunities for Saints to defend that move and stop the ball going in the net thereafter (including FF catching the ball that breezed right past him). The incident happened on the edge of their penalty area for goodness sake.

 

I know it's an easy thing to go after, but it's not like the ref played them through one-on-one. I'm sorry but the complaining sounds like that bleating you hear from Stoke / WBA / Palace etc fans every week about how a throw-in should have been given 2 mins before a goal was scored.

[angelman]

The strange one is that refs when not giving a foul usually signal "no foul" with their hands palms down crossing then uncrossing, or "advantage" by holding their arms out in front of them, palms up. Atkinson played advantage earlier in the game by putting his arms out in front of him, then when the ball went backwards, continued to motion like that, changing the direction he was gesticulating in, until the ball actually went forwards.

 

He used the same gesture after the Kenedy/Cedric incident, which meant he was playing advantage to Chelsea, and that he had completely misread the linesman's signal - given that they also have earpieces in to communicate with their colleagues I can only assume they then decided not to speak any further than "no foul" (in either direction) or the linesman would have just continued to flag, realising the ref had misread his signal. Either way, complete debacle of a decision and there's no way Atkinson could see Kenedy's kick at the angle he was at anyway.

 

I agree, but will pick you up on one thing if I might be pedantic (or not, as it is relevant). You called him a linesman - they aren't and haven't been since 1996. They are assistant referees who of course are there to assist the referee rather than just run the line. With that in mind, the flagging should surely not be over ridden so easily.

[kelkel31]

if you look at the picture they show with article how any human can is it is not both a foul and a handball is beyond me, only debate from that angle was whether the incident was in the area!

[redkeith]

if you look at the picture they show with article how any human can is it is not both a foul and a handball is beyond me, only debate from that angle was whether the incident was in the area!

 

I thought the same, the only bit of Cahill's body that touches the ball in the incident is his arm!

 

It does feel a bit like Kevin Friend over again. Chelsea would have struggled to close a 10 point gap over 11 games, but now it is down to 4 they will probably catch us by the end of the month.

[Whitey Grandad]

I thought the same, the only bit of Cahill's body that touches the ball in the incident is his arm!

 

It does feel a bit like Kevin Friend over again. Chelsea would have struggled to close a 10 point gap over 11 games, but now it is down to 4 they will probably catch us by the end of the month.

 

Atkinson was too busy concentrating on whether it was handball or not to think about awarding a straightforward foul. This can happen when there is so much else going on in the game that his mind can be overloaded.

[The9]

Davies pulled him back, could see it clear as day from the Chapel, definite card.

 

Fair enough, I was behind it and Davis' body shielded it.

[The9]

I agree, but will pick you up on one thing if I might be pedantic (or not, as it is relevant). You called him a linesman - they aren't and haven't been since 1996. They are assistant referees who of course are there to assist the referee rather than just run the line. With that in mind, the flagging should surely not be over ridden so easily.

 

Perfectly aware of that, but I will always call them linesmen and not bow to the token rebranding which only served to remove a semantic issue around the term "female linesmen", given what an outlier they are at all levels of football and how unnecessary the renaming is and was.

 

Changing to the term "assistant referee" did not confer any additional powers on the 2nd and 3rd officials, and is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

[The9]

It was a bit of a kick and could have been called a free kick or not - however there was still plenty of opportunities for Saints to defend that move and stop the ball going in the net thereafter (including FF catching the ball that breezed right past him). The incident happened on the edge of their penalty area for goodness sake.

 

I know it's an easy thing to go after, but it's not like the ref played them through one-on-one. I'm sorry but the complaining sounds like that bleating you hear from Stoke / WBA / Palace etc fans every week about how a throw-in should have been given 2 mins before a goal was scored.

 

Deliberately kicking or attempting to kick an opponent is a red card, should we want to go down that road...

[angelman]

Perfectly aware of that, but I will always call them linesmen and not bow to the token rebranding which only served to remove a semantic issue around the term "female linesmen", given what an outlier they are at all levels of football and how unnecessary the renaming is and was.

 

Changing to the term "assistant referee" did not confer any additional powers on the 2nd and 3rd officials, and is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

 

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_6_the_assistant_referees_en_47406.pdf