Southampton vs Chelsea Post Match Throw away

[sandwichsaint]

Disappointing, with a 100% concentration we could have won that. 70 minutes and Chelsea going nowhere, restricted to possession and random long shots and then Costa gets his A game out. We get suckered in, and what was a decent defensive performance goes to rats.

 

1st sub is abysmal, CA had been labouring since HT, Long is injured, and they bring on Pelle, why in the name of sweet baby J didn't he bring on Mane?

 

Their first (and second) goals are both really poor goals to concede.

 

Sometimes you have to hold your hands up and say the better team won, they were clearly better in most departments, but did 'they' do enough to win? (or were we undone by a crap substitution, and a lack of concentration/distraction?).

[LGTL]

The linesman called the foul for Saints and then the ref played an advantage to Chelsea. Big cock up before their goal.

[Shroppie]

The linesman called the foul for Saints and then the ref played an advantage to Chelsea. Big cock up before their goal.

In that case it's the assistant's fault. He should have continued to flag and draw the ref's attention to his mistake.

 

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[John Boy Saint]

The linesman called the foul for Saints and then the ref played an advantage to Chelsea. Big cock up before their goal.

That was the punch in the guts.

in the build up to the match when I posted Atkinsons appointment I felt that he was one of the better ones, someone pulled me up quoting Wikipedia saying he was prone to game changing mistakes: well that one played out with his overriding of the Lino.

 

A draw would have been acceptable as we weren't on top form and Chelsea despite all the possession weren't that dangerous.

i do feel that bringing on Pelle was a wasted substitution, Chelsea must have thought it was Christmas when Long went off to be replaced with a less mobile player, whereas Mane coming on for long would have replaced speed with speed.

 

Lets hope today is a kick in the pants and we are back at the races on Tuesday.

[hasper57saint]

It was I who referred to the Wikipedia info.Proved correct today. Ref was a total disgrace.

[Patrick Bateman]

Lucky bunch of bent cheating ****s

 

Infraction, stop stamping on people's dreams.

[Saints foreva]

Just watching the game back now on Sky, 100% that was a penalty, Cahill on Austin.

 

Unbelievable decision not to give it.

[DT]

A lot of people will blame the ref, the cheating etc but for me the wrong substitution was made when long went off injured. Any other manager would have brought on Mane but Koeman, after bringing Pelle to England, obviously feels obliged to give him game time. Pelle has played no part in the exceptional form we have shown over the last few months - surely Koeman gets the point...no. When you play a team like Chelsea, who we know can leak goals when faced with fast strikers, are 1-0 up and under pressure, don't bring on a target man who doesn't move, doesn't work hard, doesn't track back and tries not 1 but 3 stupid back heels. He gave the ball away high up the pitch when we needed to keep possession and take the pressure off the defence and midfield. He failed to do so and i believe we paid the price on both occasions. His time with Saints is over. I want to see players learning from mistakes and also the manager needs to take the blame every now and then. Win the next two games with sensible team selections and substitutions.

 

This. Times a hundred.

 

 

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[shurlock]

The linesman called the foul for Saints and then the ref played an advantage to Chelsea. Big cock up before their goal.

 

The ref also overruled the lino on the Itchen side for a corner - the incident was literally in front of the lino. Even though it was ruled in our favour and that lino arguably had a worse game than the ref, not sure how atkinson could give it as his sight was blocked by 2-3 players. Very odd.

[GarrettIvo]

So much of the usual crap on here after a loss. Pelle this, Pelle that. But whatever we all need a scapegoat.

 

Not sure I have seen anyone question why Fraser Forster did nothing but stare at that Fabregas ball until it was almost behind him though.

[tpbury]

My tuppunce. For the second, Bertrand (I think) momentarily peeled off to whinge at the ref or someone, rather than playing to the whistle. He could have got that little closer to the ball, but Costa had plenty of time as a result. I also think that Forster could have taken out player and ball as it came in, rather than trying to cover both sides of the goal, albeit he has long arms.

[influx]

been calling it for a while

 

Really? I must of

Missed that. You do know that repeating things all the ****ing time until it becomes true does not mean you have a point. I have a mate, and I'm sure we all do who has being saying WW3 is just around the corner. It doesn't mean you "had a point" when it actually becomes visible to all.

[grezz]

Agree with all this, spot on. Even the announcers noticed when Long and Austin were gone we weren't making runs and opening the field. As stated, the ball would come right back in keeping the pressure on, and giving our defense no break. I don't fault the defense, although it wasn't at its best. However any team constantly resetting the game from the just outside the box is going to score

 

Do announcers usually notice stuff?

[grezz]

Do announcers usually notice stuff?

 

Withdrawn. You aren't a native english speaker so my comment was was out of place

[Mr Biscuits]

Tbh over the course this season, taking 3 points from Chelsea will do.

They're on a run, and we never play well after a break.

 

I just hope that this break hasn't disrupted our momentum.

 

Getting very tired of refs who do not manage the game consistently.

[northam soul]

I think the reason Koeman brought Pelle on was to try and make the ball stick up front as we were getting pummelled at the time.

The fact that Pelle decided to flick the ball on four occasions to a Chelsea player was not in Koemans planning.

It will not go down well on here but I would like to see Bertrand playing in Targetts position as he is much more of a threat going forward.

[Black Sea Saint]

We were the better side in the first half and deserved our lead. The defence looked solid and Chelsea were closed down effectively and forced to shoot from distance, more often than not finding row Q in the process.

 

We held on until the 75th minute and the change came about because Chelsea indulged in cheating tactics to disrupt our flow and therefore our concentration. The main cheating c*nt was Dago Costa, who showed really bad gamesmanship chasing down the ball kicked back to Forster when we kicked it out to gain attention to our injured player. That riled V.V-D and the temperature of the game rose significantly, favouring the Chelsea players who dived all over the pitch to try and gain possession and impetus.Sometimes it is a shame that our players are often too honest, as a bit of gamesmanship in return by way of diving and rolling in fake agony after being brushed by Dago Costa might have ended in him getting the red card that he deserved.

 

The match turned also when Long came limping off and I think Koeman arrived at the wrong decision putting on Pelle instead of Mane. Pelle really was very poor and I wish that he would just cut out the poncey flicks, which gave away possession twice in quick succession. Mane was lively when he came on, but he was hampered partnering Pelle instead of Austin when he was substituted.

I had thought that Atkinson had previously been a decent referee, but his performance today was very poor and a couple of decisions he took upon himself against the lino and vice-versa. The first yellow card he gave against us was for an innocuous foul, whereas there followed a very similar one from Chelsea very soon after which didn't even warrant a free kick.

 

Essentially, we had commanded the midfield the first half and closed down their players, whereas in the second half, probably missing Long's energy, we seemed to sit off them, allowing them more freedom to come ever closer to our box and it became almost inevitable that players of the quality of theirs would be able to produce a goal. Why is that we always lose momentum after a two week break? Thank God we have two other matches within a week and if we can get wins from Bournemouth and Sunderland, we can be back in the groove once more.

 

You might be angry and disappointed but it doesn't making racism OK. You *****.

[Batman]

just watching MOTD

the ref was a disgrace

 

it was an obvious penalty by cahill but the tater said the ref got it right. whilst taking austin out!!!

 

the foul from cahill was outside the box and the handball was inside

Edited 28 February, 2016 by Batman

[OldNick]

my viewpoint from watching it on TV is that their first goal is down to our keeper, not a flick 90 yards from goal. The ref in the main was correct although his big mistake was over ruling the lino. I assume he thought the lino was flagging for the initial contact not the kick out by the Chelsea player which he missed at the time. The penalty would be harsh,I would not be happy if one was awarded against us for that.

Reading the match thread is quite comical though.

Oh and Long should have scored his header.

[um pahars]

my viewpoint from watching it on TV is that their first goal is down to our keeper, not a flick 90 yards from goal. The ref in the main was correct although his big mistake was over ruling the lino. I assume he thought the lino was flagging for the initial contact not the kick out by the Chelsea player which he missed at the time. The penalty would be harsh,I would not be happy if one was awarded against us for that.

Reading the match thread is quite comical though.

Oh and Long should have scored his header.

 

I'm with you on the penalty, I thought it was clumsy, a bit ball to hand, but ultimately not a penalty. As you say I would have been a bit annoyed had VVD done something similar and been called up for it.

 

And you're also spot on regarding the overruling of the Lino. As you say, can only assume he thought the Lino was flagging for a free kick to Chelsea, whereas their defender definitely kicked out and should have been hauled up for it. Can they not speak to each other on their mics??? (Wonder if anyone would review the kick out as could be deemed as violent conduct??).

 

And as you say we were slack once play continued. I think it was Bertrand and Fonte who were too busy appealing for the ball going out of play and even FF's appealing seemed to put him off, as rather than setting himself for Fabregas' cross he was also appealing.

 

Think a draw would have been a fair result, but always feared the worst once they equalised. We seemed a bit leggy and RK, who as brilliant as he is, probably made the wrong subs which was compounded by Pelle having a mare!!

Edited 28 February, 2016 by um pahars

[corky morris]

my viewpoint from watching it on TV is that their first goal is down to our keeper, not a flick 90 yards from goal. The ref in the main was correct although his big mistake was over ruling the lino. I assume he thought the lino was flagging for the initial contact not the kick out by the Chelsea player which he missed at the time. The penalty would be harsh,I would not be happy if one was awarded against us for that.

Reading the match thread is quite comical though.

Oh and Long should have scored his header.

The referee yesterday (& many other times this season) was inconsistent. Same last week, same most weeks. Allowing Ivanovic 3 fouls without a booking whilst booking Clasie is a mistake. Either book both or allow Clasie 2 more fouls.

Last week Clasie gets booked for pulling Siggurdson, just after he had done it Clasie without a booking.

If he books Ivanovic, he has to play differently.

Bottom line, once again a referee influences the result of a game!

[rallyboy]

1. If a defender fouls the striker AND places his arm out to block the path of the ball, that is a penalty - it's also a red card.

2. The Chelsea defender kicked out petulantly and the linesman flagged - possible red card there too.

 

We were beaten by a better side - who had their own ref.

[um pahars]

I think the reason Koeman brought Pelle on was to try and make the ball stick up front as we were getting pummelled at the time.

The fact that Pelle decided to flick the ball on four occasions to a Chelsea player was not in Koemans planning.

It will not go down well on here but I would like to see Bertrand playing in Targetts position as he is much more of a threat going forward.

 

probably a good shout re RK hoping Pelle might hold the ball up a bit better than Mane and that it might be harsh pulling RK up, when Pelle was the one trying to be a Fancy Dan at the wrong time!! (And let me be clear I have always supported Pelle and do rate him, but that doesn't mean I won't be pulling him up for his 3 or 4 flicks that gave away possession!!!).

[Toomer]

1. If a defender fouls the striker AND places his arm out to block the path of the ball, that is a penalty - it's also a red card.

2. The Chelsea defender kicked out petulantly and the linesman flagged - possible red card there too.

 

We were beaten by a better side - who had their own ref.

The two points raised above I agree with having seen both incidents in close up on MOTD this morning, Chelsea are a team followed by a bunch of arrogant merchant bankers.

[scotty]

I only saw the second half, but going on that we were well beaten. Long going off was the coup de grace.

[TwoPints]

my viewpoint from watching it on TV is that their first goal is down to our keeper, not a flick 90 yards from goal. The ref in the main was correct although his big mistake was over ruling the lino. I assume he thought the lino was flagging for the initial contact not the kick out by the Chelsea player which he missed at the time. The penalty would be harsh,I would not be happy if one was awarded against us for that.

Reading the match thread is quite comical though.

Oh and Long should have scored his header.

When I first watched it on MotD, I thought Forster was at fault too but on watching back, there was a Chelsea player in front of him who I think Forster thought might get a touch. He therefore hesitated for a split second and by then it was too late.

 

Just been over to the Chelsea forum to see if their thoughts on Costas unsportsman like behaviour in chasing the ball down and they seem to have loved it, blaming VvD for going down too easily! Now I remember why I dislike Chelsea and their support so much. Bunch of ****s. If that had happened the other way round, they'd have been up in arms and the incident would undoubtedly have been shown on MotD too.

[Whitey Grandad]

I only saw the second half, but going on that we were well beaten. Long going off was the coup de grace.

 

Long was waving to the bench a few minutes before being substituted.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Tight game but 2 disappointing goals , first on FF was flat footed & my gut feeling was the second one maybe he could have done better . I haven't seen it on TV and being in the kingland corner didn't get a really clear view, but it was pretty central . Quite rare we give goals away from corners these days .

 

Pelle was awful, I don't want to see him Tues.

[derry]

On reflection I think we got the tactics wrong. The 3/5 at the back against sides that can dominate possession surrenders the midfield and forces the team to defend the penalty area.

Against Arsenal, one of these sides we completely dominated by playing a back four and pressing up behind a middle four compacting in midfield and denying the space and time on the ball to pass the ball around. Then getting the ball up front quickly behind the centre backs for our quick strikers.

 

Yesterday and against similar teams we should adopt the same tactics but whatever we play, Pelle isn't mobile enough any more, as if he ever was. Targett dropped too deep probably because Bertrand was very central leaving him vulnerable without cover. Five at the back is all very well and works against the average side but against the best sides we have to adopt a more proactive pressing counter attacking game.

 

All in all we were possession wise dominated by Chelsea's passing and movement, however we restricted them and created the better chances. After Pelle gave the ball away and the linesman flagged for Kenedy kicking out the referee was wrong to allow play to continue which resulted in Fabregas's soft cross going in. If Chelsea hadn't scored then it's possible that they wouldn't have scored at all.

[Trout-Tickler]

Is Reed injured at the moment? Was slightly surprised we didn't have a defensive midfielder on the bench yesterday unless of course JWP was that option?

[Professor]

In a way I don't feel so bad about losing as a result of two serious mistakes by the referee, one which Derry has mentioned above, when the ref ignored his Assistant's flag and the other when he failed to give a penalty for handball by Cahill who had already fouled Long before handling the ball on the turf. It does seem that paying referees more money hasn't improved their standards. There isn't much point in having Assistant Refs if the man with the whistle can ignore them with no consequences to himself.

What I do feel bad about, is that I thought Koeman got his substitutions wrong. I thought they were wrong when he made them, not just with the benefit of hindsight. I couldn't understand Pelle for Long because it was Austin who had made less impact and we were left with two players of similar style whilst losing speed. If he wanted to take Long off because of injury, the replacement should have been Mane while the other change could have been Pelle for Austin later in the game to introduce fresh legs. I also thought Koeman should have shown more flexibility when Chelsea started to work out the back three system by switching to a back four - which he could have done by taking off Matt Targett and bringing on Ward-Prowse in midfield.

I am available if Ron wants any advice on tactics......

[scotty]

Long was waving to the bench a few minutes before being substituted.

 

Yes, I noticed that. I'm not suggesting he should have stayed on, just that him going off was a pretty big turning point.

[redder freak]

I thought Romeu had a good game.

 

I agree. But in the second half, the midfield (especially Davis and on a yellow card) tired and an on-form Wanyama would have been useful. Pelle, Austin and Mane were left a bit isolated.

[Shroppie]

Looks like we'll lose ground on Manure too now. Shame they've found a striker, but can only hope Rashford will be dropped once Rooney's fit.

 

Or could it be that Shrek isn't even the best striker for his club? Clearly still England's best option.

 

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[simo]

On reflection I think we got the tactics wrong. The 3/5 at the back against sides that can dominate possession surrenders the midfield and forces the team to defend the penalty area.

Against Arsenal, one of these sides we completely dominated by playing a back four and pressing up behind a middle four compacting in midfield and denying the space and time on the ball to pass the ball around. Then getting the ball up front quickly behind the centre backs for our quick strikers.

 

Yesterday and against similar teams we should adopt the same tactics but whatever we play, Pelle isn't mobile enough any more, as if he ever was. Targett dropped too deep probably because Bertrand was very central leaving him vulnerable without cover. Five at the back is all very well and works against the average side but against the best sides we have to adopt a more proactive pressing counter attacking game.

 

All in all we were possession wise dominated by Chelsea's passing and movement, however we restricted them and created the better chances. After Pelle gave the ball away and the linesman flagged for Kenedy kicking out the referee was wrong to allow play to continue which resulted in Fabregas's soft cross going in. If Chelsea hadn't scored then it's possible that they wouldn't have scored at all.

 

I thought we played a more 5 3 2 than 3 5 2 yesterday and didn't really offer as much support between midfield and Long/Austin , Imo Changing Long for Pelle rather than Mane lost us our main attacking out ball by losing the pace in our team !

[whelk]

refs have been mostly shyte this season. this was just another

 

I remember the season where everyone said how good the refs were

[derry]

I thought we played a more 5 3 2 than 3 5 2 yesterday and didn't really offer as much support between midfield and Long/Austin , Imo Changing Long for Pelle rather than Mane lost us our main attacking out ball by losing the pace in our team !

 

I probably didn't make myself clear by putting 3/5, because it was mostly five at the back so in the midfield space we were left with only Romeu and Clasie willing to run press and tackle, against a side that was given the space to pull us around, whilst Davis doesn't either defend or attack and lacks the will to provide a physical challenge. Pelle looks like a player that has run his course, only Koeman doesn't see it that way. He has been poor for a long while now, but yesterday he was dire and turned the game in Chelsea's favour by surrendering possession so easily. We have been much improved without his one dimensional, selfish, immobile imitation of a traffic cone. Playing as we are, his need of a spoon fed service isn't happening as he isn't the focal point any more.

[Charlie Wayman]

We were beaten on the day by a better team and below par performance by at least two key players. Loss of concentration is a fact of life when physical energy is used up and our midfield trio especially were running on fumes for the last 10 minutes. Chelsea's energy saving way of playing ensures they can perform for 90 minutes. They knew that yesterday and kept plugging away in the same old way believing that goals would come inevitably. It's not fair to blame one player for our failings or the ref even though he made two costly cock-ups for us.

[SaintStinger]

While i agree Pelle has been poor lately so has Mane. Take his pace away and he offers nothing whatsoever at the moment. And he really does need to stop falling over all the time.

[Nordic Saint]

Mane offered our only threat when he came on yesterday. The game was crying out for him to come on when Long got injured. He has a lot more than pace. He has guile and skill and unnerves opposition defences. If he'd come on earlier, we'd probably have got at least a draw.

[Whitey Grandad]

We were beaten on the day by a better team and below par performance by at least two key players. Loss of concentration is a fact of life when physical energy is used up and our midfield trio especially were running on fumes for the last 10 minutes. Chelsea's energy saving way of playing ensures they can perform for 90 minutes. They knew that yesterday and kept plugging away in the same old way believing that goals would come inevitably. It's not fair to blame one player for our failings or the ref even though he made two costly cock-ups for us.

 

A lot happened between the ignored flag and their first goal. I think it was more due to Forster standing with both arms in the air appealing for the ball being over the line than the referee. Forster just wasn't set to defend the feeble cross.

[Saint_clark]

A lot happened between the ignored flag and their first goal. I think it was more due to Forster standing with both arms in the air appealing for the ball being over the line than the referee. Forster just wasn't set to defend the feeble cross.

 

There was about 30 seconds between the two incidents buddy. If we got that freekick they wouldn't have scored the equaliser.

But yes, Forster should have done better. I know he was put off by the player rushing in - but with the angle of the cross theres no reason he couldnt run towards the ball and grab it before it got anywhere near the player.

[Super_Uwe]

So much of the usual crap on here after a loss. Pelle this, Pelle that. But whatever we all need a scapegoat.

 

Not sure I have seen anyone question why Fraser Forster did nothing but stare at that Fabregas ball until it was almost behind him though.

 

Haha! You're quite right.

 

Amazes me how many people slag Pelle off for not being mobile or quick enough. Did we buy him to be a lightning quick whippet to run the forward line? No, we bought him because he is a good solid "old school" centre forward who had a decent scoring record, was well-known to the manager and was available within our price bracket in 2014.

 

If he left in the summer, I would happily shake his hand and say good luck to him because he has done a good job for us.

[verlaine1979]

Haha! You're quite right.

 

Amazes me how many people slag Pelle off for not being mobile or quick enough. Did we buy him to be a lightning quick whippet to run the forward line? No, we bought him because he is a good solid "old school" centre forward who had a decent scoring record, was well-known to the manager and was available within our price bracket in 2014.

 

If he left in the summer, I would happily shake his hand and say good luck to him because he has done a good job for us.

 

All the criticism of Pelle I've read subsequent to this game has been about his repeated decision to go for a poorly executed flick rather than trying to control the ball and then fight to keep hold of it. At that juncture in the game, you send on a good solid 'old school' centre forward because you want the ball to stick rather than immediately coming back after every clearance, so to play the way he did on Saturday was basically either lazy or stupid.

[sadoldgit]

All the criticism of Pelle I've read subsequent to this game has been about his repeated decision to go for a poorly executed flick rather than trying to control the ball and then fight to keep hold of it. At that juncture in the game, you send on a good solid 'old school' centre forward because you want the ball to stick rather than immediately coming back after every clearance, so to play the way he did on Saturday was basically either lazy or stupid.

 

It wasn't the best idea in the world, but blaming someone at the other end of the pitch for a goal conceded is a bit harsh. Counter attacks always happen when possession is lost by the attacking team. The idea is to counter the counter attack.

[NickG]

been calling it for a while

 

Along with Mane not worth the fee we paid, relegation battle, not replacing players left, etc

[verlaine1979]

It wasn't the best idea in the world, but blaming someone at the other end of the pitch for a goal conceded is a bit harsh. Counter attacks always happen when possession is lost by the attacking team. The idea is to counter the counter attack.

 

Of course, the only reason this is being commented on is the fact that Pelle consistently chooses to go for the elaborate flick rather than fight to hold up the ball. If Saturday's error was just a one-off I'd imagine most people would be forgiving, but in Pelle's case there's a clear pattern of behaviour that he refuses to learn from.

[Toomer]

I remember the season where everyone said how good the refs were

If that is the case you must be an old git like me to remember that far back:lol:

[sadoldgit]

Of course, the only reason this is being commented on is the fact that Pelle consistently chooses to go for the elaborate flick rather than fight to hold up the ball. If Saturday's error was just a one-off I'd imagine most people would be forgiving, but in Pelle's case there's a clear pattern of behaviour that he refuses to learn from.

 

We can talk about elaborate flicks all day long, but if you sit back against a team like Chelsea they will punish you. We didn't lose the match because of Pelle.

[Andy Durman]

I think the reason Koeman brought Pelle on was to try and make the ball stick up front as we were getting pummelled at the time.

The fact that Pelle decided to flick the ball on four occasions to a Chelsea player was not in Koemans planning.

It will not go down well on here but I would like to see Bertrand playing in Targetts position as he is much more of a threat going forward.

 

Two interesting points you make. Pelle was brought on to hold up play. Did he do his job?

 

We have used Bertrand on a number of occasions in an advanced role and he just isn't comfortable. Targett is the better wing back.