JRM Posted 26 February, 2016 Share Posted 26 February, 2016 Let's just make one thing clear here, Saints fans were attacked in the square that day, they were not the ones to go looking for it. If some of the lads fought back then that is completely different from a scenario where they went looking for trouble. All the Vitesse lads seemed to accept their fate as they were rounded up and put on buses outside their bar which was over by the main road, the saints fans were left to enjoy their day, but typical of the Hampshire football "intelligence" officers they could not miss out on the opportunity to get involved with some banning orders themselves, ensuring their budget is nicely secured for another season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 26 February, 2016 Share Posted 26 February, 2016 I don't know if they were toe rags or not but expect most commenting condemning have never been in situations. And often cowards will decry brave men as it helps them feel more civilised where's truth is they crp their pants whilst others fight back and they need to justify being so weak So if you don't run to the front and start throwing chairs you're a coward ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 26 February, 2016 Share Posted 26 February, 2016 So if you don't run to the front and start throwing chairs you're a coward ? Instinct takes over sometimes. But it does get quite tribal and with a few beers. Easy to condemn from afar but I can relate. And in no way a hooligan who goes looking for trouble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 26 February, 2016 Share Posted 26 February, 2016 Let's just make one thing clear here, Saints fans were attacked in the square that day, they were not the ones to go looking for it. If some of the lads fought back then that is completely different from a scenario where they went looking for trouble. All the Vitesse lads seemed to accept their fate as they were rounded up and put on buses outside their bar which was over by the main road, the saints fans were left to enjoy their day, but typical of the Hampshire football "intelligence" officers they could not miss out on the opportunity to get involved with some banning orders themselves, ensuring their budget is nicely secured for another season. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 26 February, 2016 Share Posted 26 February, 2016 I'm willing to wager that the people banned have all been involved in organised hooliganism. Can't say I'm that bothered to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 26 February, 2016 Share Posted 26 February, 2016 so it could have been anyone in the square this happened to but it just happened to be a group of lads most of whom have past for being thugs that got caught on cctv throwing furniture and not any of the hundreds of normal non idiot saints fans that were there? Pull the other one it has bells on some people are attracted to violence these mugs are clearly amongst them? Not saying it wasn't an unprovoked attack but there are ways and means of defending yourself without throwing punches let alone furniture Have you read Nick Illingworth's account? he gets it pretty much spot on, he was there,so was I, Turkish, fair few others. Do you think it is right and fair that people are not allowed to leave the country for a third of the year, have the areas they are allowed to enter in their home city significantly restricted, all without being convicted of a crime? Is that right or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 26 February, 2016 Share Posted 26 February, 2016 I'm willing to wager that the people banned have all been involved in organised hooliganism. Can't say I'm that bothered to be honest. If your not that bothered why would you be willing to wager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 26 February, 2016 Share Posted 26 February, 2016 Have you read Nick Illingworth's account? he gets it pretty much spot on, he was there,so was I, Turkish, fair few others. Do you think it is right and fair that people are not allowed to leave the country for a third of the year, have the areas they are allowed to enter in their home city significantly restricted, all without being convicted of a crime? Is that right or not? Your wasting your breath/finger tips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 26 February, 2016 Share Posted 26 February, 2016 so it could have been anyone in the square this happened to but it just happened to be a group of lads most of whom have past for being thugs that got caught on cctv throwing furniture and not any of the hundreds of normal non idiot saints fans that were there? Pull the other one it has bells on some people are attracted to violence these mugs are clearly amongst them? Not saying it wasn't an unprovoked attack but there are ways and means of defending yourself without throwing punches let alone furniture And you think that those 6 were the only ones defending themselves? There were others, but these have most likely been picked out because of their previous connections. I'd also be interested to know how you would defend yourself without using violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 26 February, 2016 Share Posted 26 February, 2016 And you think that those 6 were the only ones defending themselves? There were others, but these have most likely been picked out because of their previous connections. I'd also be interested to know how you would defend yourself without using violence. Call them names, you know really really bad ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocco boxo Posted 26 February, 2016 Share Posted 26 February, 2016 What a great trip that was, I just hope we can get a "Holland" trip again next season, love the Dutch, you can even have a "tear up" with them and then shakes hands and have a beer after! Plus the woman are fit! Those boys are unlucky seeing they could miss out on all that again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plastic Posted 26 February, 2016 Share Posted 26 February, 2016 I came to this thread ready to condemn these idiots, but having read the first hand report from the UI, I'm less inclined to do so. They are however still idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodles34 Posted 27 February, 2016 Share Posted 27 February, 2016 Instinct takes over sometimes. But it does get quite tribal and with a few beers. Easy to condemn from afar but I can relate. And in no way a hooligan who goes looking for trouble[/quote this is a strange point of view, because you said on another thread about the Spurs Jewish stuff that it was unacceptable etc. that people saying it was a bit of football tribal warfare were idiots (these weren't your exact words, I don't go trawling back through history to prove a point, but correct me if I am wrong, it was the jist of what you were saying) and there was no place for them, but..... It's okay after a few beers to get stuck in. you couldn't make it up eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 27 February, 2016 Share Posted 27 February, 2016 I've read this thread and read the UI page. I'm just about persuaded that the saints boys came under attack from punches etc. They were entitled to defend themselves. That defence should have been reasonable, ie punching etc back. As is often the case was the issue here that the self defence was not reasonable? I'm struggling to see how throwing tables and chairs around was reasonable self defence. If that's what they did they can't complain imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cambsaint Posted 27 February, 2016 Share Posted 27 February, 2016 I assume they have a right of appeal. If they truly believe they are innocent then they will surely use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 27 February, 2016 Share Posted 27 February, 2016 Instinct takes over sometimes. But it does get quite tribal and with a few beers. Easy to condemn from afar but I can relate. And in no way a hooligan who goes looking for trouble[/quote this is a strange point of view, because you said on another thread about the Spurs Jewish stuff that it was unacceptable etc. that people saying it was a bit of football tribal warfare were idiots (these weren't your exact words, I don't go trawling back through history to prove a point, but correct me if I am wrong, it was the jist of what you were saying) and there was no place for them, but..... It's okay after a few beers to get stuck in. you couldn't make it up eh? Why am I not surprised someone as thick as you couldn't make a distinction between getting involved when provoked and mocking the holocaust? 'Couldn't make it up' can't even use your cliched line appropriately either. You seem a little obsessed with me which is sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
percy windham Posted 27 February, 2016 Share Posted 27 February, 2016 I used to abhor violence, but I got into a fight leaving The Old Mill in Holbury a few years ago, and it was well exciting. So well done these chaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodles34 Posted 27 February, 2016 Share Posted 27 February, 2016 (edited) Why am I not surprised someone as thick as you couldn't make a distinction between getting involved when provoked and mocking the holocaust? 'Couldn't make it up' can't even use your cliched line appropriately either. You seem a little obsessed with me which is sweet.[/quote Deleted Edited 27 February, 2016 by Noodles34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 27 February, 2016 Share Posted 27 February, 2016 I assume they have a right of appeal. If they truly believe they are innocent then they will surely use it. To appeal what though? It seems they haven't been convicted of any crime or even charged with one. They've been recognised on CCTV has having been involved in an altercation for which they have received football banning orders, which are civil rather than criminal convictions. Football Bans can also be applied as a means to prevent further disorder so even if its proven that what the did was self defence the old bill can always pull out the card that having been involved in this then it's likely they'll be involved in something else in the future to uphold any appeal. We dont know if the CCTV footage shown to the court will show the initial attack from the Arnhems fans, or any witness statements confirming this, but you'd assume this was highly unlikely as nothing released to the media showed it. So not only did the Dutch police manufacturer the situation in the first place Hampshire Police appear to have not given the full story to the media given the way it's been reported so therefore you'd assume the same to the courts. So we now have the blaze of publicity and back slapping from them about how they've all worked together to save football grounds across Europe from these dangerous people. Some will say they over stepped the mark of self defence and so deserve everything they get but as eyewitness accounts such as Nicks article on TUI confirm once the Arnhem hooligans had been seen off the mood returned to the peaceful one it had been prior to the attack by them. There was no further trouble that day or night and no innocent fans were set upon, so those that had a chair thrown at them where the ones who attacked Saints fans in the first place, in that situation then surely they are the ones who deserve what they get? The whole thing stinks. Where else would you not be convicted or even charged with a criminal offence yet be banned from entering a city centre, travelling to another one or leaving the country for a good part of a the year without actually having been found guilty or even charged with anything. But of course no one gives a sh*t because as you can tell from the reaction on here and other social media the default reaction is they are scum and deserve everything they get. From the outside looking and as someone who has saw the whole thing from 20 yards away it seem the boys in blue have done a marvellous job of shafting a few people for their own ends yet again. Southampton FIU budget is secured for another year and yet another nice little "hooligans banned ahead of England tournament" headline that they roll out every time there is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 27 February, 2016 Share Posted 27 February, 2016 Too true Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1576 Posted 27 February, 2016 Share Posted 27 February, 2016 We dont know if the CCTV footage shown to the court will show the initial attack from the Arnhems fans, or any witness statements confirming this, but you'd assume this was highly unlikely as nothing released to the media showed it. You would think there would be some CCTV of the 50 odd Arnhem that marched up that side street past us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintoaks Posted 27 February, 2016 Share Posted 27 February, 2016 Not seen anything from the Dutch press but what happend to the Arnhem fans arrested ? Did they get banning orders ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffo Posted 27 February, 2016 Share Posted 27 February, 2016 No CCTV footage was shown in court. They don't even have it yet. These bans went off of YouTube footage, and the evidence used was stills from the videos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian lord Posted 27 February, 2016 Share Posted 27 February, 2016 Teens and kids can travel freely and join IS to behead and stone to death a few kuffars and we can't stop it. It's ok though because we've stopped a few young lads who got into a scrap last summer after a few beers and might do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 27 February, 2016 Share Posted 27 February, 2016 You would think there would be some CCTV of the 50 odd Arnhem that marched up that side street past us? I wish I'd have filmed it as I was on the lane that joined the 2 squares when they came through. I don't remember seeing any Police with that group. There were a couple that scuttled up behind once they'd pretty much reached the square but they then ran up towards the main road, took a couple of lefts and ended up as part of a bigger Police group at an entrance to the square adjacent to where the Arnham fans marched in. This was the area they started dragging fans out to once the fighting had stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 27 February, 2016 Share Posted 27 February, 2016 No CCTV footage was shown in court. They don't even have it yet. These bans went off of YouTube footage, and the evidence used was stills from the videos. Saints fans banned due to footage taken by other Sainte fans. I hope the lot that uploaded those videos are happy with themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli Posted 27 February, 2016 Share Posted 27 February, 2016 Let's just make one thing clear here, Saints fans were attacked in the square that day, they were not the ones to go looking for it. If some of the lads fought back then that is completely different from a scenario where they went looking for trouble. All the Vitesse lads seemed to accept their fate as they were rounded up and put on buses outside their bar which was over by the main road, the saints fans were left to enjoy their day, but typical of the Hampshire football "intelligence" officers they could not miss out on the opportunity to get involved with some banning orders themselves, ensuring their budget is nicely secured for another season. It really isn't as far as the consequences are concerned. Ask anyone who has been trained in boxing or martial arts. You have to defend yourself responsibly. 9/10 that means walking away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 27 February, 2016 Share Posted 27 February, 2016 It really isn't as far as the consequences are concerned. Ask anyone who has been trained in boxing or martial arts. You have to defend yourself responsibly. 9/10 that means walking away. I've done many different martial arts, boxing and Krav Maga - what you're trained to do is still very different from real life (although Krav Maga is the closest). If you've been on the beers all day and you and your mates come under attack, are you really going to think "okay I need to walk away?" - a sober you might, if you've got the space to do so. But once you've had a few beers you might react differently or actually the real life situation is exactly nothing like what you've been taught in a safe room. You look out for number 1. If looking out for number 1 involves hurling a table and THEN making your exit, that's what you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1ex2001 Posted 28 February, 2016 Share Posted 28 February, 2016 If beer makes you a violent idiot incapable of making a rational decision not to lib furniture at people stop drinking! If someone is far enough away for you to lob a table at them they are not a threat. It really is time we stopped making excuses for thugs being thugs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 28 February, 2016 Share Posted 28 February, 2016 If beer makes you a violent idiot incapable of making a rational decision not to lib furniture at people stop drinking! If someone is far enough away for you to lob a table at them they are not a threat. It really is time we stopped making excuses for thugs being thugs! Indeed. I get the need to protect yourself, but throwing chairs and tables obviously goes beyond what's reasonable. If that's what these lads did I don't understand the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMidfieldGeneral Posted 29 February, 2016 Share Posted 29 February, 2016 You would think there would be some CCTV of the 50 odd Arnhem that marched up that side street past us? The whole thing was a stitch up from the start. But anyway, This is the lot that Officer Dibbleshire and his cronies let wander into the square. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig Posted 29 February, 2016 Share Posted 29 February, 2016 Lots of people with criminal posts for football violence posting in defence of others in time because of football violence. Brilliant. I'm glad these idiots have been punished and I don't care if they weren't charged. Good riddance to bad rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild-saint Posted 1 March, 2016 Share Posted 1 March, 2016 throwing chairs is acceptable? ok then. too much beer and sunshine and people get brave. regardless of the reporting they deserve everything they get IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brmbrm Posted 1 March, 2016 Share Posted 1 March, 2016 Lots of people with criminal posts for football violence posting in defence of others in time because of football violence. Brilliant. I'm glad these idiots have been punished and I don't care if they weren't charged. Good riddance to bad rubbish. Quite. 99% or more of my life is spent NOT at football matches. I do not throw tables at people in this 99% or more of my life, nor do i punch them in the face. (Sometimes i must admit i feel that I would like to but i do not.) So why should I throw tables and punch people in the face at a football match and have the gall to think that is normal, acceptable behaviour that should be condoned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 1 March, 2016 Share Posted 1 March, 2016 Quite. 99% or more of my life is spent NOT at football matches. I do not throw tables at people in this 99% or more of my life, nor do i punch them in the face. (Sometimes i must admit i feel that I would like to but i do not.) So why should I throw tables and punch people in the face at a football match and have the gall to think that is normal, acceptable behaviour that should be condoned? If someone punched you in the face, would you punch them back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 1 March, 2016 Share Posted 1 March, 2016 If someone punched you in the face, would you punch them back? I think most people would but I doubt they'd throw tables and chairs at them. If that's what these guys did they can't complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick1976.4.38 Posted 1 March, 2016 Share Posted 1 March, 2016 worse goes on in every city in the uk every Friday night but you don't get a banning order for it,you may get a cell for the night and a fine. from the videos looks like the dutch old bill played a big part in this by letting those looking for trouble[Arnhem] into the square Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1ex2001 Posted 1 March, 2016 Share Posted 1 March, 2016 worse goes on in every city in the uk every Friday night but you don't get a banning order for it,you may get a cell for the night and a fine. from the videos looks like the dutch old bill played a big part in this by letting those looking for trouble[Arnhem] into the square I've never seen people throwing furniture at each other in a UK city centre on a Friday/Saturday night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMidfieldGeneral Posted 1 March, 2016 Share Posted 1 March, 2016 What on earth do you expect him to do when he is in a different country with no police powers at all? What's he doing over there then? Just let the Dutch ob get on with it. None of the people involved are crying about the bans. Occupational hazard. But the bedwetters on here are out in force once again. Get back to your neighbourhood watch schemes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 1 March, 2016 Share Posted 1 March, 2016 What's he doing over there then? Just let the Dutch ob get on with it. None of the people involved are crying about the bans. Occupational hazard. But the bedwetters on here are out in force once again. Get back to your neighbourhood watch schemes. There's no bedwetting mate. I just think it's ridiculous that people think that someone has been hard done by for getting a football banning order for throwing tables and chairs around at an away football match. Sure they came under attack and sure they were entitled to use reasonable self defence. What they weren't entitled to do is go ott. The did and that's why they were banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 1 March, 2016 Share Posted 1 March, 2016 worse goes on in every city in the uk every Friday night but you don't get a banning order for it,you may get a cell for the night and a fine. from the videos looks like the dutch old bill played a big part in this by letting those looking for trouble[Arnhem] into the square According to some posters on here, it's like the wild west on some Friday nights in England so it wouldn't surprise me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 1 March, 2016 Share Posted 1 March, 2016 According to some posters on here, it's like the wild west on some Friday nights in England so it wouldn't surprise me. chairs, tables and all sorts being thrown. men wandering about, sexually abusing anything in a skirt....all in maidenhead too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 1 March, 2016 Share Posted 1 March, 2016 There's no bedwetting mate. I just think it's ridiculous that people think that someone has been hard done by for getting a football banning order for throwing tables and chairs around at an away football match. Sure they came under attack and sure they were entitled to use reasonable self defence. What they weren't entitled to do is go ott. The did and that's why they were banned. Plus they no doubt love it as well. Perfect excuse to look hard in front of their mates. Pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wurzel Posted 1 March, 2016 Share Posted 1 March, 2016 worse goes on in every city in the uk every Friday night but you don't get a banning order for it,you may get a cell for the night and a fine. from the videos looks like the dutch old bill played a big part in this by letting those looking for trouble[Arnhem] into the square Start throwing tables and chairs around (or worse) in a pub in town on a Friday night you'll find yourself refused entry to that and every other pub in Southampton in the future. Might not be a legal banning order issued by a court but it would have the same effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 1 March, 2016 Share Posted 1 March, 2016 should man up and take their punishment on the chin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 1 March, 2016 Share Posted 1 March, 2016 should man up and take their punishment on the chin. And what would you know? The only thing you've ever taken on the chin are you captains balls when you burnt his bacon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 1 March, 2016 Share Posted 1 March, 2016 And what would you know? The only thing you've ever taken on the chin are you captains balls when you burnt his bacon. you took it on the chin. in many ways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
percy windham Posted 1 March, 2016 Share Posted 1 March, 2016 And what would you know? The only thing you've ever taken on the chin are you captains balls when you burnt his bacon. LOL, the Great Turkish's downwards spiral is complete with this chirpy playground insult. All we need now is for him to follow it up with "I know you are, but what am I?". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMidfieldGeneral Posted 1 March, 2016 Share Posted 1 March, 2016 should man up and take their punishment on the chin. They have. It's only the absolute whoppers on here crying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 1 March, 2016 Share Posted 1 March, 2016 They have. It's only the absolute whoppers on here crying. Crying?! Behave. A few people have merely pointed out that because of the behaviour of these idiots it's no surprise that they got banned. I'm surprised that you and a few others seem to think that their behaviour was acceptable. Each to their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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