Saints fans given banning orders

[Sour Mash]

Listen, if they haven't completed the mandatory forum posts having been punched then it's their lookout, guv. I sure as hell don't think it happened given they haven't posted on an internet forum about it. Must have formed a large part of their defence during the hearing, I would imagine

As I thought, nothing.

[Sour Mash]

Prosecuting, Gavin Sumpter told the court: “Mr Jameson has previously threatened police that he would travel to matches without a ticket to be involved in or start disorderly behaviour.”

Do you believe everything you read in the papers?

[simo]

As I thought, nothing.

 

Did you go to Arnham Sour ?

[Judge_B]

As I thought, nothing.

 

I think you've confused me with someone that trawls the internet, trying to prove futile points

[simo]

Do you believe everything you read in the papers?

 

So that's just made up ? Ffs whatever next

[Griffo]

So that's just made up ? Ffs whatever next

 

As someone who was in Arnhem and as someone who knows those stitched up, I can tell you that there were no arrests, and no prosecution. What is written in the Echo is wrong.

[simo]

As someone who was in Arnhem and as someone who knows those stitched up, I can tell you that there were no arrests, and no prosecution. What is written in the Echo is wrong.

 

So they're your mates I wondered why you got all defensive, like I said earlier IF they were hard done by I suggest they contact the Echo and Appeal !

[simo]

You can't just be given a banning order without being charged and taken to court and evidence produced !http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/d_to_g/football_related_offences/

[Griffo]

So they're your mates I wondered why you got all defensive, like I said earlier IF they were hard done by I suggest they contact the Echo and Appeal !

 

Not saying if they're hard done by or not. Just setting the record straight. The Echo has printed rubbish, as well as pictures, names and addresses of people who have not been arrested or prosecuted for anything.

[Deano6]

My brother was right there in the mix of it (the square, not the fight) and said there were Feyenoord fans involved. Who is telling the truth?

[simo]

My brother was right there in the mix of it (the square, not the fight) and said there were Feyenoord fans involved. Who is telling the truth?

 

Arnham and Saints fans there at the time were tweeting Feyenoord had crashed the party

[simo]

Not saying if they're hard done by or not. Just setting the record straight. The Echo has printed rubbish, as well as pictures, names and addresses of people who have not been arrested or prosecuted for anything.

 

Then the Echo should be getting in the **** right ? You can't just go around making stuff up and printing it these days !

[Sour Mash]

Did you go to Arnham Sour ?

Yes.

[Turkish]

My brother was right there in the mix of it (the square, not the fight) and said there were Feyenoord fans involved. Who is telling the truth?

 

There were a few Feyenord fans in the square but they were there to support saints. Read Nick Illingworths article on it on TUI which is linked above. It's exactly what happened.

 

It was Arnhem fans who attacked the saints fans. I know this because I was in a side road just off the square where it happened saw the whole thing and the 50 Arnhem fans marched past me arms in the air singing "we are Arnhem".

 

As for "simo" it's pretty evident he's a clown and talking bo locks, funny how on the one hand he's boasting about being on the back page of the echo for being involved in trouble and then condemning people for stuff he blantently hasn't got a clue what he's on about.

[Sour Mash]

You can't just be given a banning order without being charged and taken to court and evidence produced !http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/d_to_g/football_related_offences/

Yes, you can. You're still getting things wrong and making stuff up.

 

I'll make it very clear to you, as you seem quite simple. These are Civil bans - no criminal conviction or charge is required.

[Sour Mash]

There were a few Feyenord fans in the square but they were there to support saints. Read Nick Illingworths article on it on TUI which is linked above. It's exactly what happened.

 

It was Arnhem fans who attacked the saints fans. I know this because I was in a side road just off the square where it happened saw the whole thing and the 50 Arnhem fans marched past me arms in the air singing "we are Arnhem".

 

As for "simo" it's pretty evident he's a clown and talking bo locks, funny how on the one hand he's boasting about being on the back page of the echo for being involved in trouble and then condemning people for stuff he blantently hasn't got a clue what he's on about.

Nick Illingworth's account is pretty much spot on, don't know why people don't just read that.

[Sour Mash]

I think you've confused me with someone that trawls the internet, trying to prove futile points

Just pointing out your post is based on pretty much nothing but your own imagination.

[The Cat]

Arnham and Saints fans there at the time were tweeting Feyenoord had crashed the party

 

That was started on Twitter by Simon Peach. There were also Arnhem fans in the square saying Feyenoord were involved but that didn't sit with what I saw as the big group of lads who started the trouble marched straight past me towards the square singing "Arnhem, Arnhem"

 

As far as i saw the only people arrested in the square at the time were Dutch.

[simo]

There were a few Feyenord fans in the square but they were there to support saints. Read Nick Illingworths article on it on TUI which is linked above. It's exactly what happened.

 

It was Arnhem fans who attacked the saints fans. I know this because I was in a side road just off the square where it happened saw the whole thing and the 50 Arnhem fans marched past me arms in the air singing "we are Arnhem".

 

As for "simo" it's pretty evident he's a clown and talking bo locks, funny how on the one hand he's boasting about being on the back page of the echo for being involved in trouble and then condemning people for stuff he blantently hasn't got a clue what he's on about.

 

Yet again the clown of clowns calls me a clown haha , and show me my boast please ?

[simo]

That was started on Twitter by Simon Peach. There were also Arnhem fans in the square saying Feyenoord were involved but that didn't sit with what I saw as the big group of lads who started the trouble marched straight past me towards the square singing "Arnhem, Arnhem"

 

As far as i saw the only people arrested in the square at the time were Dutch.

 

I think the Dutch fans would know if it was their own lot or Feyenord fans starting the trouble?

[Patrick Bateman]

I think the Dutch fans would know if it was their own lot or Feyenord fans starting the trouble?

 

Of course they'd say that, it's their rivals, think about it!

[Griffo]

I think the Dutch fans would know if it was their own lot or Feyenord fans starting the trouble?

 

Someone with no idea must have said that on the day and then that story spread like wildfire. It was nothing to do with Feyenoord.

[simo]

Of course they'd say that, it's their rivals, think about it!

 

From a saints fan on the Echo page ! "I was there and the Feynoord fans turned up hell bent on trouble"

[Judge_B]

Just pointing out your post is based on pretty much nothing but your own imagination.

 

can you point out where you've pointed that out?

[Patrick Bateman]

From a saints fan on the Echo page ! "I was there and the Feynoord fans turned up hell bent on trouble"

 

Probably someone nowhere near it, who heard via a friend of a friend, or read Peach's tweet and decided that was the truth. There is more evidence from people who were there to suggest it was Arnhem fans and the few Feyenoord were drinking peacefully WITH Saints in the square.

[simo]

Probably someone nowhere near it, who heard via a friend of a friend, or read Peach's tweet and decided that was the truth. There is more evidence from people who were there to suggest it was Arnhem fans and the few Feyenord were drinking peacefully WITH Saints in the square.

 

There's 3 or 4 others saying the same thing !

[simo]

That was started on Twitter by Simon Peach. There were also Arnhem fans in the square saying Feyenoord were involved but that didn't sit with what I saw as the big group of lads who started the trouble marched straight past me towards the square singing "Arnhem, Arnhem"

 

As far as i saw the only people arrested in the square at the time were Dutch.

 

7 saints fans arrested, 1 for drunken and disorderly after the game !http://m.dailyecho.co.uk/news/13580089.WATCH__Saints_fans_caught_up_in_violence_in_Holland_before_game_against_Vitesse_Arnhem/

[Griffo]

7 saints fans arrested, 1 for drunken and disorderly after the game !http://m.dailyecho.co.uk/news/13580089.WATCH__Saints_fans_caught_up_in_violence_in_Holland_before_game_against_Vitesse_Arnhem/

 

7 completely different people to the ones that were in court yesterday.

[Saint_clark]

Absolute joke tbh, I was there and that echo article doesn't match what went on at all. Apart from being factually incorrect and completely misleading, I find it annoying that they try to make out that somehow spoiled the entire thing...it didn't in the slightest. Entire trip remains probably my favourite memory as a Saints fan.

[Saint-Armstrong]

Dan Kerins - who works for the Echo and is a Saints fan - tweeted earlier that the line about Feyenoord fans being present is what was said in court.

[Johnny Bognor]

It was Arnhem fans who attacked the saints fans. I know this because I was in a side road just off the square where it happened saw the whole thing and the 50 Arnhem fans marched past me arms in the air singing "we are Arnhem". .

 

yep, the pedestrianised street that linked the two squares. with the dutch OB leading the way. we said at the time that this was going to kick off. you didnt need to be a rocket scientist to work that out. the situation was completely manufactured by the dutch police.

[Saint86]

I think it is clear that there are posters on here with vested interests who know the people involved.

 

Ultimately who cares, they got banned and maybe harsh or justified... I didn't see the facts to judge.

 

As for the comments regarding clubs involved... you can see in some of the videos that there are guys in yellow and black shirts carrying batons attacking fans in red and white shirts before promptly running off when the cops intervene.... that is pretty clear who was involved and who were the antagonists.

 

Just goes to show how people warp the facts either deliberately or through confusion in times like these... it is there in clear video evidence. Although the same video also shows a saints fan going after one of the Vitesse fans and hurling a chair at him whilst trying to punch him.

 

If they had banning orders before, and have had these reinstated on the back of cctv footage, then I don't really have a lot of sympathy for those particular people. Sorry.

[whelk]

yep, the pedestrianised street that linked the two squares. with the dutch OB leading the way. we said at the time that this was going to kick off. you didnt need to be a rocket scientist to work that out. the situation was completely manufactured by the dutch police.

 

Not sure I would would trust a rocket scientist to be streetwise spotting who was out for trouble and when it was going to kick off.

[whelk]

Wasn't there but anyone who trusts the press over eye witness accounts is naive in the extreme.

I have seen so much in past and many injustices like Italian police rounding up any English supporter they can find in Rimini 1990. After all the trouble (and there was fair bit that night) had died down the police finally made their presence known and rounded up 246 supporters and deported - our press labelling them all scum to be dropped in the ocean. Many were just lads in the wrong hotel when the police finally found their courage to show they could deal with it.

And one bloke wasn't even there for the World Cup but had just left his missus and popped out to get some ciggies - arrested and deported.

 

Arsenal fans hate Piers Morgan and not just because he is an obnoxious bed wetting bore but is because his Mirror paper reporting on similar crp in Copenhagen. Lads defending themselves from Turkish fans - doing what any self respecting male would do.

 

http://toknowthegame.com/2014/03/03/why-arsenal-fans-hate-piers-morgan/

Edited 26 February, 2016 by whelk

[Noodles34]

You can't just be given a banning order without being charged and taken to court and evidence produced !http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/d_to_g/football_related_offences/

 

Yeah, you can, definitely.

[adrian lord]

Those lads should be given medals not banning orders. Bravely defended themselves and their compatriots. Trumped-up show trial pre-Euros. Interesting how the constabulary and CPS ensured it was escalated to national media too.

[brmbrm]

Sounds like 6 violent tmoronic thugs less at the fotty, so what's wrong with that?

 

Or should I believe a web site written by one man, voicing one opinion, about all those nasty Dutchemn throwing their faces at peoples hands, rather than that of a judge who has listened to prosecution and defense (which of course we have not had relate her)?

 

I go for the "6 fewer violent morons" theory.

[Sour Mash]

Sounds like 6 violent tmoronic thugs less at the fotty, so what's wrong with that?

 

Or should I believe a web site written by one man, voicing one opinion, about all those nasty Dutchemn throwing their faces at peoples hands, rather than that of a judge who has listened to prosecution and defense (which of course we have not had relate her)?

 

I go for the "6 fewer violent morons" theory.

Why weren't they arrested and convicted of any crime then?

[itchen]

There were a few Feyenord fans in the square but they were there to support saints. Read Nick Illingworths article on it on TUI which is linked above. It's exactly what happened.

 

It was Arnhem fans who attacked the saints fans. I know this because I was in a side road just off the square where it happened saw the whole thing and the 50 Arnhem fans marched past me arms in the air singing "we are Arnhem".

 

As for "simo" it's pretty evident he's a clown and talking bo locks, funny how on the one hand he's boasting about being on the back page of the echo for being involved in trouble and then condemning people for stuff he blantently hasn't got a clue what he's on about.

 

That's impressive. I wonder how many Saints fans could sing "We are Southampton" in Dutch.

[Special K]

That's impressive. I wonder how many Saints fans could sing "We are Southampton" in Dutch.

 

"Wey arr Soussssshampton"?

[a1ex2001]

Don't get the sympathy, nobody needs to throw furniture around and square up to the police in order to defend themselves!

[itchen]

Don't get the sympathy, nobody needs to throw furniture around and square up to the police in order to defend themselves!

 

You do, apparently, if you're a self-respecting bloke. Not only that, you should be given a medal. Presumably, you can wear it alongside those you won when you picked up your previous banning order. Makes you proud, doesn't it?

[a1ex2001]

You do, apparently, if you're a self-respecting bloke. Not only that, you should be given a medal. Presumably, you can wear it alongside those you won when you picked up your previous banning order. Makes you proud, doesn't it?

 

exactly, I'd give them all season tickets for life. I bet it wasn't their faults last time they got banned either was probably some other nasty boys making trouble that they couldn't possibly avoid.

 

This argument that it could have been anyone cracks me up clearly it couldn't have been as I for one would have been much more likely to be cowering like a girl than lobbing furniture guess the initial reaction of some people is slightly different!

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Coming late to the debate but Nick I and Turkish are correct in their recall. I was with about 15 mates, sitting around 2 tables just around the corner from the main square where all the joviality was. I noticed a group of about 50 Dutch fans tightly packed come around the corner from that square and head towards us. Instinct kicked in as I thought there was a chance they might have a go at us (we're all old men average age about 55) but they passed us by. They looked very intent and seemed to know exactly where they were going (they turned left shortly afterwards and headed for the other square where the trouble took place about a minute later). None had colours on and they were chanting Arnhem songs. Had they attacked us, then there would have only been one thing to have done and that was fight back to defend ourselves. I am sure that is what all of us would have done and there was (as far as I know) not one convicted football hooligan amongst us. Had I later received a banning order for defending myself then I would be mighty peeved. I don't believe there were any Saints fans there looking for trouble, but that doesn't mean to say a lot of people there weren't prepared to stick up for themselves if they had to.

The echo reporting is shameful - it is no more than a rag these days, I feel sorry for the few decent people that still work there.

[Saint_clark]

Sounds like 6 violent tmoronic thugs less at the fotty, so what's wrong with that?

 

Or should I believe a web site written by one man, voicing one opinion, about all those nasty Dutchemn throwing their faces at peoples hands, rather than that of a judge who has listened to prosecution and defense (which of course we have not had relate her)?

 

I go for the "6 fewer violent morons" theory.

 

It's not one person though is it, it's every single person who was there.

 

That's impressive. I wonder how many Saints fans could sing "We are Southampton" in Dutch.

 

Erm...guessing you didn't go. Every Dutch person i encountered over there spoke excellent English. A lot of places are taught it as a second language from an early age.

When we played them at St Marys, weren't they chanting "you're sh*t and you know you are" or some such...?

[The9]

My brother was right there in the mix of it (the square, not the fight) and said there were Feyenoord fans involved. Who is telling the truth?

 

I personally saw one bloke wearing a piece of Feyenoord training kit leaving the Korenmarkt where the incident happened as I was walking back to the other square from the hotel. The cordon of riot police between the two squares were happy enough to let me through, it was only their presence that alerted me to the fact something had happened in the 10 minutes since I'd last been there.

 

I also saw a loud group of Arnhem fans set off from the square with the DJ towards the Korenmarkt before I left to go to the hotel, but they left before me, and there was nothing happening there when I went through Korenmarkt - so either they went the long way or the two groups weren't related - there were a LOT of Arnhem fans singing and shouting in groups like that without causing any trouble at all in both home and away legs.

Edited 26 February, 2016 by The9

[a1ex2001]

It's not one person though is it, it's every single person who was there.

 

 

 

 

so it could have been anyone in the square this happened to but it just happened to be a group of lads most of whom have past for being thugs that got caught on cctv throwing furniture and not any of the hundreds of normal non idiot saints fans that were there? Pull the other one it has bells on some people are attracted to violence these mugs are clearly amongst them?

 

Not saying it wasn't an unprovoked attack but there are ways and means of defending yourself without throwing punches let alone furniture

Edited 26 February, 2016 by a1ex2001

[aintforever]

but there are ways and means of defending yourself without throwing punches let alone furniture

 

Yes, but throwing punches and furniture could be an act of self defence.

 

I have no time for football hooligans but can't see how it can be right to punish people who have not been convicted of a crime.

[whelk]

exactly, I'd give them all season tickets for life. I bet it wasn't their faults last time they got banned either was probably some other nasty boys making trouble that they couldn't possibly avoid.

 

This argument that it could have been anyone cracks me up clearly it couldn't have been as I for one would have been much more likely to be cowering like a girl than lobbing furniture guess the initial reaction of some people is slightly different!

 

Yeah and if you were there with your missus and kids hid behind them. That's the spirit!

 

Oh and sexist;-)

[whelk]

I don't know if they were toe rags or not but expect most commenting condemning have never been in situations.

And often cowards will decry brave men as it helps them feel more civilised where's truth is they crp their pants whilst others fight back and they need to justify being so weak

Edited 26 February, 2016 by whelk