Can Saints or West Ham manage to gate crash the top 4 at man Citys expense?

[Jimmy_D]

Where are our resident statisticians when you need them? We need the data on what % likely we are to finish top 4 before we can make an informed decision. it was all the rage last season and anyone who pointed out it was a load of nonsense was rounded upon. So until someone provides this it's impossible to say.

 

http://www.sportsclubstats.com/England/Premier.html

 

About a 7% chance, based on results over the season and current strength.

 

Can't take into account current strength not being accurate of course, for example an injury to a key position.

[Sheaf Saint]

Plus a red card - good chance we might have done.

 

We had three penalty shouts in that match (handball by Lovren as well as the two fouls on Djuricic) and the first two ought to have been a red card as well.

 

Plus a possible red for Mignolet's handball that wasn't given.

 

Friend did as much as he possibly could to ensure we got a worse result than we might otherwise have done.

 

So we should have had 3 penalties and Liverpool should have had 3 red cards? Wow, those are some amazing rose-tinted specs you're wearing.

 

IMO (and I was at the game as well as having seen highlights) the only one that looked a nailed-on pen to me was the second one when Djuricic was scythed down as he was about to shoot. But it wouldn't have been a red card anyway because there were other defenders in the box so it wasn't a true 'last-man' situation.

 

But aside from those incidents we didn't actually do enough to win the game. Sorry to say it but Liverpool were better than us on the day and deserved to win.

[notnowcato]

http://www.sportsclubstats.com/England/Premier.html

 

About a 7% chance, based on results over the season and current strength.

 

Can't take into account current strength not being accurate of course, for example an injury to a key position.

 

Or your manager being sacked but being left in charge...

[The9]

Not necessarily. The first one wasn't "bolted-on" as you say. The second one was when we were already 1-0 down, so there is no absolute guarantee that we would actually have won/drawn the game anyway had it been given.

 

We only needed a draw to have finished above them. The first one should have been given though Djurucic did himself no favours by going over so easily when he could have scored anyway.

[The9]

http://www.sportsclubstats.com/England/Premier.html

 

About a 7% chance, based on results over the season and current strength.

 

Can't take into account current strength not being accurate of course, for example an injury to a key position.

 

For Turkish's benefit, it was all the rage two seasons before, when people still thought we might get relegated whilst 13th for some reason.

 

That site is decent for statistical spread based on points total and matches remaining alone, but doesn't seem to take previous opponents or difficulty of schedule into consideration.

 

Apparently Saints have a 23% chance of coming 5th and the same of coming 6th, with an 18% chance of coming 7th, as we're 5 points clear of 8th. Chances of coming 3rd and 12th are about 1% each.

 

Leicester's chances of winning the title dropped from 55% to 41% by virtue of losing to Arsenal last weekend.

[Sheaf Saint]

We only needed a draw to have finished above them. The first one should have been given though Djurucic did himself no favours by going over so easily when he could have scored anyway.

 

Alright. What about Fonte's wild lunge on Sterling that also should have been a penalty?

[The9]

Alright. What about Fonte's wild lunge on Sterling that also should have been a penalty?

 

I'd have gone for his handball at Newcastle personally to make the point over the whole season, but well done thinking of one in the same match.

 

The point still remains that refereeing decisions over the course of one match can have a disproportionate impact on the league table, which supports what david in sweden said about "a few crazy Clattenburg decisions might decide the title places, regardless of what the teams may achieve on the pitch". The popularly-held stuff about it "evening out over the season" is nonsense. Your "offsetting" argument depends on equal forces of crapness/goodness in refereeing for both decisions, which isn't a given, or even that likely with inconsistencies.

 

Specific incidents can have significant consequences without other incidents in that team's favour having anything like the same impact in the opposite direction.

 

Which is not to say these are the only factors in play. But they can be measured in isolation.

[tajjuk]

It's possible but we'd need to win about 9 of our remaining 12 I reckon, can't see that myself because our forwards aren't really on form and we can't rely on our defence every game.

 

Our poor form around Xmas cost us a top four chance, possibly forever if the big clubs actually get themselves in order. Dropping stupid points to the likes of Norwich, if we'd played even averagely through that period rather than poorly we'd have 5 or 6 more points and be right in there to challenge for 4th.

 

Finishing 5th though ahead of Utd and Liverpool would still be huge and I could be smug to a lot of mates. We certainly have a realistic chance of doing that.

[lickierambert]

Reading this thread, it occurred to me that we never really finish PL seasons well and the stats seem to bear that out:

 

- Only once in our last 8 PL seasons has our final 8 game PPG average been higher than the season average; 2012-2013: 1.25 vs 1.08

- In those seasons, we have won just 22.9% of our last 6 games: 11/48

 

We're going to have to turn around that trend to get anywhere close.

[david in sweden]

Where are our resident statisticians when you need them? We need the data on what % likely we are to finish top 4 before we can make an informed decision. it was all the rage last season and anyone who pointed out it was a load of nonsense was rounded upon. So until someone provides this it's impossible to say.

without a mass of boring statistics; I suggest

 

firstly; taking note of which team wins the League Cup . Oh well Capital One Cup (then).....

 

second; after the home game with Crystal Palace on May 15th

 

third.....waiting to see who wins the FA Cup the following week.

 

.....alternatively ....find out which matches John Moss and Mark Clattenburg will be refereeing, in which case you can forget my three suggestions above .....

[aintforever]

Leicester were 5000/1 to win the league at the start of the season, I think the past 20 years have shown the chances of anyone other than the biggest clubs with the most money winning the league is that much of an outside bet. We've already seen the impact of having Wasilewski on the pitch instead of Simpson for them, and that lack of squad depth compared to their rivals NOT being a factor has been essential.

 

Frankly this season is the perfect storm of tactical sea-change, Ranieri's ability, other top players being unmotivated and injured at key times, Vardy and Mahrez being on fire at levels they've never reached before, some luck (a point at St Mary's with Kelvin in goal for a start) and Leicester not having to use much of their squad and therefore having something resembling their best eleven on the pitch more often than is usual (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3349675/Leicester-City-boss-Claudio-Ranieri-used-just-20-players-Premier-League-far-second-fewest-team.html).

 

This will not happen again any time soon unless the top players continue to steal a living without putting any effort in, which opens the door for others to succeed based on something other than wages paid.

 

You havn't got a clue wether a similar thing will happen next year or not.

 

Fact is when people like Matt Le God said Saints should aim for a Champions League place he was 100% right, it was and is possible for a team of Saints or Leicester's size to finish top 4, despite what mongs like Turkish have said.

[CB Fry]

You havn't got a clue wether a similar thing will happen next year or not.

 

Fact is when people like Matt Le God said Saints should aim for a Champions League place he was 100% right, it was and is possible for a team of Saints or Leicester's size to finish top 4, despite what mongs like Turkish have said.

 

Leicester didn't aim for the Champions League this season did they.

 

It isn't some forum sap that said we were aiming to challenge for the top four, it was Les Reed and he's right.

 

The issue is how that is achieved, and what SFC will and will jot do to achieve it.

 

Despite Les explaining this in very simple terms countless times that gets glossed over by forum dins bawling their eyes out about Net spend and look-who-Palace-have-bought-why-cant-we-be-them and merrily slagging off the likes of Clasie as "cheap" replacements.

 

Lastly I'd suggest you'll struggle to find Turkish having ever said it isn't possible for us to finish top 4.

[aintforever]

Leicester didn't aim for the Champions League this season did they.

 

It isn't some forum sap that said we were aiming to challenge for the top four, it was Les Reed and he's right.

 

The issue is how that is achieved, and what SFC will and will jot do to achieve it.

 

Despite Les explaining this in very simple terms countless times that gets glossed over by forum dins bawling their eyes out about Net spend and look-who-Palace-have-bought-why-cant-we-be-them and merrily slagging off the likes of Clasie as "cheap" replacements.

 

Lastly I'd suggest you'll struggle to find Turkish having ever said it isn't possible for us to finish top 4.

 

Oh come on, some posters were crucified by you idiots on here for suggesting we could get in the Champions League. Men walking on moon or something wasn't it?

 

Fact is some small minded idiots thought that just because it hasn't happened before it isn't possible.

[The9]

You havn't got a clue wether a similar thing will happen next year or not.

 

Fact is when people like Matt Le God said Saints should aim for a Champions League place he was 100% right, it was and is possible for a team of Saints or Leicester's size to finish top 4, despite what mongs like Turkish have said.

 

I can't even tell you if Leicester are going to finish in the top 4 this season for sure. But nor can anyone else, and there is a ton of evidence that the sides who pay the most money finish the highest. Leicester's performance is an outlier compared to all the wage vs league position data of the past 20 years.

 

Turkish definitely didn't say Saints couldn't finish top 4 at any point, I don't think anyone else has either.

 

So anyway, could you clarify the strategy that you think has flung Leicester to the top of the Premier League which Saints should have followed?

[CB Fry]

Oh come on, some posters were crucified by you idiots on here for suggesting we could get in the Champions League. Men walking on moon or something wasn't it?

 

Fact is some small minded idiots thought that just because it hasn't happened before it isn't possible.

Man walking on the moon was the primary reason offered by several people on this forum for why the club should sink several tens of millions of capital expenditure into a stadium expansion there was no evidence we needed or could pay back. Needless to say history has proved me right on that. Didn't need one, not getting one.

 

Now, I've never said it was impossible for us to get into the top four. In fact in those types of debates I've always said that we'll only do it in a season like Leicester's when you put together the best team you can afford to and go for it, with a couple of big club casualties required to ease the way.

 

So while others were whining and grizzling about how the big Swiss woman refuses to "invest in the team" like Manchester City, lickle old Leicester City with a rag tag of free transfers, Championship journeymen, a single player for eight whole million pounds and Robert Huth have marched to the top of the league.

 

And with it, proved me right and smashed the whining "spend spend spend" crybabies theories into a million little pieces.

 

All in all, it's been a highly satisfactory season for me.

[CB Fry]

So anyway, could you clarify the strategy that you think has flung Leicester to the top of the Premier League which Saints should have followed?

 

I can distinctly remember aintforever saying in the summer that we should be signing Stoke's third choice centre back and some Austrian full back on a free. And Nathan Dyer.

 

That's what he said we should do.

[Rut]

Current best odds to finish in the top 4 from OddsChecker (http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/top-4-finish):

 

1/25 Arsenal

1/12 Spurs

1/8 Leicester

1/7 Man City

 

 

9/2 Man Utd

14/1 Lpool

20/1 Saints

40/1 Chelsea

50/1 West Ham

100/1 Everton

 

 

250/1 bar

 

As expected the bookies have the current Top 4 as pretty much nailed. 20/1 (as short as 12/1 in places) with 12 games to go means it ain't total pie-in-the-sky type stuff though. Just unlikely.

 

Imagine being a Leicester fan who has been in a coma for a few months. They come round and look at the table. WTF - have they been chucked out of the league or something? They then see them at the TOP. They quickly fall back into another coma...

[mrfahaji]

Current best odds to finish in the top 4 from OddsChecker (http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/top-4-finish):

 

 

20/1 Saints

40/1 Chelsea

50/1 West Ham

 

Given we're on the same points, and West Ham have demonstrated they can turn anyone over on their day, I'm surprised at the disparity between us. Sure, maybe Saints are in better form, but 20/1 vs 50/1??

[OldNick]

Man walking on the moon was the primary reason offered by several people on this forum for why the club should sink several tens of millions of capital expenditure into a stadium expansion there was no evidence we needed or could pay back. Needless to say history has proved me right on that. Didn't need one, not getting one.

I cant see how you have been proved right. Did i miss the new stadium being enlarged and now put back to the current size. Surely that is the only way to prove your point. Some said it was pointless leaving the Dell as we didnt fill that every game.

It is as always in your judgement that you have been proved correct. In another life did you design the M25 and only allow for 3 lanes as more wouldnt be needed or that oil would run out before the year 2000 as i was told many times in the 1970's.

I cant be bothered to read all your posts to also prove your other claim that you never said we couldnt get into the CL, but Iam of the opinion you did.

Your points are normally valid but you do let yourself down with the constant school playground taunts to posters about cry babies and boo hoo etc. For your info i suggest it gives posters the opinion that perhaps you are the cry baby in real life as you need to talk down or belittle other genuine posters on here.

[Saint Charlie]

Doubt it but its possible..

 

Tell me ...do you have an alarm ring everytime i post?

No alarm - you posts stick out like a sore thumb because 50%+ are about other posters and their posts rather than about Saints.

 

You rarely give your own opinions which is a shame because I'm sure they would add to the forum.

[Toadhall Saint]

Given we're on the same points, and West Ham have demonstrated they can turn anyone over on their day, I'm surprised at the disparity between us. Sure, maybe Saints are in better form, but 20/1 vs 50/1??

 

Is west hams run in harder than ours? Can't be arsed to look but it could be a reason for he difference

[JxgrSaint]

Is west hams run in harder than ours? Can't be arsed to look but it could be a reason for he difference

 

Fairly significantly harder so yeah that's probably it...

[ALWAYS_SFC]

No alarm - you posts stick out like a sore thumb because 50%+ are about other posters and their posts rather than about Saints.

 

You rarely give your own opinions which is a shame because I'm sure they would add to the forum.

 

Fair enough just sick of the crap posted so point it out

[CB Fry]

I cant see how you have been proved right. Did i miss the new stadium being enlarged and now put back to the current size. Surely that is the only way to prove your point. Some said it was pointless leaving the Dell as we didnt fill that every game.

It is as always in your judgement that you have been proved correct. In another life did you design the M25 and only allow for 3 lanes as more wouldnt be needed or that oil would run out before the year 2000 as i was told many times in the 1970's.

I cant be bothered to read all your posts to also prove your other claim that you never said we couldnt get into the CL, but Iam of the opinion you did.

Your points are normally valid but you do let yourself down with the constant school playground taunts to posters about cry babies and boo hoo etc. For your info i suggest it gives posters the opinion that perhaps you are the cry baby in real life as you need to talk down or belittle other genuine posters on here.

Pretty easy to belittle people who post drivel like this.

 

You don't need to build a stadium expansion to provide evidence that we don't need one and to show how it wouldn't pay back. A fascinating insight into how you think the world works though.

[OldNick]

Pretty easy to belittle people who post drivel like this.

 

You don't need to build a stadium expansion to provide evidence that we don't need one and to show how it wouldn't pay back. A fascinating insight into how you think the world works though.

A modicum of success. like a trophy or two would change things. The top 6 clubs have/are increasing their capacities. there is no guarantee they will fill it either. I myself would not advocate expanding at present but that doesn't make me right either.

As I said before many said we didn't need to leave the Dell. Anyway onwards and upwards. your self confidence of always being right makes interesting reading, You don't need the schoolyard derision

[CB Fry]

A modicum of success. like a trophy or two would change things. The top 6 clubs have/are increasing their capacities. there is no guarantee they will fill it either. I myself would not advocate expanding at present but that doesn't make me right either.

As I said before many said we didn't need to leave the Dell. Anyway onwards and upwards. your self confidence of always being right makes interesting reading, You don't need the schoolyard derision

 

Interesting you don't consider 8th, 7th and Europa qualification and then 6th to 9th again as "a modicum of success". I'd say, for us, it is.

 

Clubs don't outlay millions and millions of capital on stadium expansion on the off chance they might win a cup, and no sensible football club would commit those same millions on the rationale that "other clubs might not fill theirs".

 

Keep trying. Meanwhile, the management of our football club ruled out any expansion in the foreseeable future some time ago. Oh well.

[mrfahaji]

Fairly significantly harder so yeah that's probably it...

 

Ah fair enough. Although given West Ham's record against the top sides this season maybe it should help their odds!

[saintwbu]

Given we're on the same points, and West Ham have demonstrated they can turn anyone over on their day, I'm surprised at the disparity between us. Sure, maybe Saints are in better form, but 20/1 vs 50/1??

 

i'd guess it's because they are slightly slipping downwards, whilst we have hit a pretty dramatic rise, so on momentum we would be the most likely. But I think they've got substance and think they'll remain pretty close to us for the remainder of the season.

[Lighthouse]

Ah fair enough. Although given West Ham's record against the top sides this season maybe it should help their odds!

 

Odds just reflect betting patterns. I'd say there have probably been a few people having a flutter on Saints, now that we have Austin and FF in the side.

[Turkish]

Oh come on, some posters were crucified by you idiots on here for suggesting we could get in the Champions League. Men walking on moon or something wasn't it?

 

Fact is some small minded idiots thought that just because it hasn't happened before it isn't possible.

 

No real surprise that someone like yourself fails yet again to grasp the point

 

I don't think I or anyone else has ever said we would never make the champions league. What I did say however was that the self titled intelligent posters c2009-12 that would prattle on about how we were on an unstoppable March to the champions league, filling a 50,000 stadium week in week out with a team full of academy graduates who would never want to leave the club were talking bo locks. The self titled intelligent posters would stop at nothing to attempt to prove their point coming up with all manner of scenarios and hypothitical arguments as they gamely fought their corner. However despite all the fairy tales, hopes and completely illogical business arguments, such as spending millions to expand so we could give more tickets to away fans, free to schools or slash them everywhere in the stadium resulting is less income than we have now not one compelling reason as to why this was saints destiny was ever given. It was left to clutching at things like it being possible because they once said man would never walk on the moon or climb Everest and all you need are Dreams and ambition.

 

Saints are pretty much where the dream stampers/trolls/idiots/dell sized mentality posters said we would be, a top 10 club who can challenge for the top 4 now and again if things go right but ultimately have our very best players picked off. Meanwhile the merry group of self titled intelligent posters seem to have disband taking their dreams, ambition and easy jet pricing models with them.

[buctootim]

Pretty easy to belittle people who post drivel like this.

 

You don't need to build a stadium expansion to provide evidence that we don't need one and to show how it wouldn't pay back. A fascinating insight into how you think the world works though.

 

Depends on how you work the business model - as an individual club or as part of a wider business trying to develop the brand.

 

As a club or current pricing policy is to maximise return based on the stadium we have. You could argue the PL as a business need to have full 50,000+ stadiums in order to sell itself worldwide as the best most popular sport in the Universe. How are you going to convince broadcasters in Kazahstan or Laos to stump up for PL rights when teams are playing in 20,000 capacity stadiums with 3,000 empty seats and half the spectators leave before the end - whilst the Chinese Super League is developing rapidly and offering foreign broadcast rights for next to nothing. More seats at lower prices could help the atmosphere as well.

Edited 18 February, 2016 by buctootim

[OldNick]

Interesting you don't consider 8th, 7th and Europa qualification and then 6th to 9th again as "a modicum of success". I'd say, for us, it is.

 

Clubs don't outlay millions and millions of capital on stadium expansion on the off chance they might win a cup, and no sensible football club would commit those same millions on the rationale that "other clubs might not fill theirs".

 

Keep trying. Meanwhile, the management of our football club ruled out any expansion in the foreseeable future some time ago. Oh well.

Nothing like shooting for the stars!

It seems bizarre that we as fans are happy for such mediocrity. If just above mid-table whets the appetite then fine, but having decades in the top flight and 1 trophy of note is not what gets me excited. At the end of the day it is trophies that will get the stadium full longterm.

I don't want Saints to follow others down the overspend route but many of the clubs around us are getting stadiums that are double ours, that will bring extra income and in turn a better chance of competing with the very best.

It is a catch 22 situation, I grant you that but as the population grows and the club wishes to give us a worldwide fanbase, having a 32000 ground will hardly make us glamourous to people not born in the city or locality.

I know how ever much silver polish Pompey use on their FA cup they will not be able to get rid of the tarnish, but it will always be a thorn that they have lived the dream and whilst they are languishing in the lower reaches, that success is the reason they still get very good crowds. Had they not won the cup and experienced the glory few years the stadium would have 6-7k crowds, like they did when they were down there 20-30 years ago.

Anyway you have kindly informed me that the club do not have the desire to grow by having the capacity expanded, although I believe had Marcus still been alive he may have invested more to gain the success he dearly wished for.

[CB Fry]

Depends on how you work the business model - as an individual club or as part of a wider business trying to develop the brand.

 

As a club or current pricing policy is to maximise return based on the stadium we have. You could argue the PL as a business need to have full 50,000+ stadiums in order to sell itself worldwide as the best most popular sport in the Universe. How are you going to convince broadcasters in Kazahstan or Laos to stump up for PL rights when teams are playing in 20,000 capacity stadiums with 3,000 empty seats and half the spectators leave before the end - whilst the Chinese Super League is developing rapidly and offering foreign broadcast rights for next to nothing. More seats at lower prices could help the atmosphere as well.

 

Why would Premier League matches be played in 20k capacity stadiums? Barely any have been in the last ten-fifteen years and, unless you are expecting City, United, Arsenal and the rest to be relegated and replaced by Swindon and Barnsley, I don't see how many will in the future.

Edited 18 February, 2016 by CB Fry

[buctootim]

Why would Premier League matches be played in 20k capacity stadiums? Barely any have been in the last ten-fifteen years and, unless you are expecting City, United, Arsenal and the rest to be relegated and replaced by Swindon and Barnsley, I don't see how many will in the future.

 

Really? - 15% of the PL have grounds of 21,000 or less (Bournemouth 11,700; Swansea 20,700, Watford 20,900). 35% have capacities of less than 28,400.

[CB Fry]

Really? - 15% of the PL have grounds of 21,000 or less (Bournemouth 11,700; Swansea 20,700, Watford 20,900). 35% have capacities of less than 28,400.

Arf. Great use of percentages and moving the goal posts to the very snappy 28,400. 2 or 3 clubs a season, with at least one usually going back down, and none of which are of any particular interest to "broadcasters in Laos".

 

In other news, SFC have a capacity higher than the globally recognised standard capacity measure of 28,400. So what's your point again?

Edited 18 February, 2016 by CB Fry

[buctootim]

Arf. Great use of percentages and moving the goal posts to the very snappy 28,400. 2 or 3 clubs a season, with at least one usually going back down, and none of which are of any particular interest to "broadcasters in Laos".

 

In other news, SFC have a capacity higher than the globally recognised standard attendance of 28,400. So what's your point again?

 

Bluster isnt a good look - gives off weakness as well as not knowing your football.

 

You said "Why would Premier League matches be played in 20k capacity stadiums? Barely any have been in the last ten-fifteen years....I don't see how many will in the future." You clearly had no idea that current PL teams were playing in 20k and smaller stadiums - 57 games this season. Did you also forget about Blackpool (16,750) and QPR (18,500)?

 

Its an age thing is it?

Edited 18 February, 2016 by buctootim

[whelk]

Depends on how you work the business model - as an individual club or as part of a wider business trying to develop the brand.

 

As a club or current pricing policy is to maximise return based on the stadium we have. You could argue the PL as a business need to have full 50,000+ stadiums in order to sell itself worldwide as the best most popular sport in the Universe. How are you going to convince broadcasters in Kazahstan or Laos to stump up for PL rights when teams are playing in 20,000 capacity stadiums with 3,000 empty seats and half the spectators leave before the end - whilst the Chinese Super League is developing rapidly and offering foreign broadcast rights for next to nothing. More seats at lower prices could help the atmosphere as well.

 

Worried about the Chinese already? The PL brand is as strong as ever. People want competitive sport. We are not close to empty stadia.

Not a new thing anyway. Cannot imagine those Wigan games going down well in Kazakhstan.

[CB Fry]

Bluster isnt a good look - gives off weakness as well as not knowing your football.

 

You said "Why would Premier League matches be played in 20k capacity stadiums? Barely any have been in the last ten-fifteen years....I don't see how many will in the future." You clearly had no idea that current PL teams were playing in 20k and smaller stadiums - 57 games this season. Did you also forget about Blackpool (16,750) and QPR (18,500)?

 

Its an age thing is it?

So broadcasters in Laos are walking away from a potential Premier League TV deal because they might have to broadcast QPR v Burnley one day on Laos Megasport Channel 7HD?

 

Or, are all of those many, many games played at 20k stadiums utterly irrelevant to Premier League TV deals worldwide as have been proved for, oh I don't know, more than a decade?

 

Still have no idea how any of this gets you to us expanding our ground though.

[CB Fry]

Worried about the Chinese already? The PL brand is as strong as ever. People want competitive sport. We are not close to empty stadia.

Not a new thing anyway. Cannot imagine those Wigan games going down well in Kazakhstan.

Oh dear. Someone else who "doesn't know their football".

[aintforever]

No real surprise that someone like yourself fails yet again to grasp the point

 

I don't think I or anyone else has ever said we would never make the champions league. What I did say however was that the self titled intelligent posters c2009-12 that would prattle on about how we were on an unstoppable March to the champions league, filling a 50,000 stadium week in week out with a team full of academy graduates who would never want to leave the club were talking bo locks. The self titled intelligent posters would stop at nothing to attempt to prove their point coming up with all manner of scenarios and hypothitical arguments as they gamely fought their corner. However despite all the fairy tales, hopes and completely illogical business arguments, such as spending millions to expand so we could give more tickets to away fans, free to schools or slash them everywhere in the stadium resulting is less income than we have now not one compelling reason as to why this was saints destiny was ever given. It was left to clutching at things like it being possible because they once said man would never walk on the moon or climb Everest and all you need are Dreams and ambition.

 

Saints are pretty much where the dream stampers/trolls/idiots/dell sized mentality posters said we would be, a top 10 club who can challenge for the top 4 now and again if things go right but ultimately have our very best players picked off. Meanwhile the merry group of self titled intelligent posters seem to have disband taking their dreams, ambition and easy jet pricing models with them.

 

Naa, I definitely remember you taking the **** out of anyone suggesting we could get a Champions League place, in your usual playground, pre-pre-pubesent sarcasm. Banging on about how much Everton have spent only to achieve it once etc.

 

The stadium one is interesting, there is obvious no great demand to increase the size at the moment, but in the future it depends on what the owners plans are. As we have a billionaire owner, if they have big long term plans then maybe it is worth thinking about. Saints are unique in a way in that they are the only decent sized club who have achieved their record attendance this century, a bit of sustained success (with the odd trophy here and there) - and their may be potential. The only time we have ever had real success we were limited by the Dell.

 

Why do you think MK Dons have a 30,500 seater stadium? There is obviously no demand for it now or the near future, or probably ever. But if you are a rich owner with big ambition it makes sense to put things in place for the future if you want to build something.

Edited 19 February, 2016 by aintforever

[The9]

Naa, I definitely remember you taking the **** out of anyone suggesting we could get a Champions League place, in your usual playground, pre-pre-pubesent sarcasm. Banging on about how much Everton have spent only to achieve it once etc.

 

The stadium one is interesting, there is obvious no great demand to increase the size at the moment, but in the future it depends on what the owners plans are. As we have a billionaire owner, if they have big long term plans then maybe it is worth thinking about. Saints are unique in a way in that they are the only decent sized club who have achieved their record attendance this century, a bit of sustained success (with the odd trophy here and there) - and their may be potential. The only time we have ever had real success we were limited by the Dell.

 

Why do you think MK Dons have a 30,500 seater stadium? There is obviously no demand for it now or the near future, or probably ever. But if you are a rich owner with big ambition it makes sense to put things in place for the future if you want to build something.

 

Interesting that you use Turkish illustrating that Everton have done it as a way of suggesting he thought we never could. I'm not sure that logic follows. If anything it supports the point that he was saying we could make it but we'd have to spend loads, which is being disproven by Leicester (but only due to a hell of a lot of circumstances aligning).

 

Step away from the stadium debate. We're consistently proving that 32,000 is about right for us at the moment and anyone wanting a cheaper game or definitely to get in can go to cup games where there are usually plenty of tickets.

 

The reason MK Dons have a huge stadium is because Asda and IKEA wanted to develop the area for retail and the only way either of the developments could go ahead was if they built a stadium too - one of the nice planning tricks councils often use to leverage community facilities they don't want to pay for.

 

As MK were also trying to attract a top-level side to make the stadium viable and whilst the planning was being considered there was the chance of getting the 2006 FIFA World Cup and having MK as a venue for that, they committed to building a 40,000 stadium in order to get the site developed. Obviously it's cheaper to build something big when new as expansion is a lot cheaper if the infrastructure is already there, which is why they had a completely empty top tier for the first 5 or so years there. Not an option for Saints, who were upgrading from a 15,000 fanbase and trying to keep costs viable. Even in the Championship the cost of stewarding the corners was sufficient to close them when money was tight, remember?

 

Ditto with West Ham converting the Olympic Stadium - due to the nature of the deal, they were stuck with more seats than they needed so they've been flexible with pricing because they already have the seats they don't need so they may as well try and get people to use them. That's also something Saints don't have as an option. We have to fork out massive amounts of money to extend, and there's little evidence to show we'd fill it for more than 4 games a season - provided they were on Saturday at 3pm.

 

The record attendance at MK is still only 28,127 for football, and 30,043 for the rugby world cup, which suggests MK really don't need that extra space. In Darlington's case building a daft-sized stadium they didn't need and the maintenance costs of doing that was a contributory factor in bankrupting them.

Edited 19 February, 2016 by The9

[Patrick Bateman]

No real surprise that someone like yourself fails yet again to grasp the point

 

I don't think I or anyone else has ever said we would never make the champions league. What I did say however was that the self titled intelligent posters c2009-12 that would prattle on about how we were on an unstoppable March to the champions league, filling a 50,000 stadium week in week out with a team full of academy graduates who would never want to leave the club were talking bo locks. The self titled intelligent posters would stop at nothing to attempt to prove their point coming up with all manner of scenarios and hypothitical arguments as they gamely fought their corner. However despite all the fairy tales, hopes and completely illogical business arguments, such as spending millions to expand so we could give more tickets to away fans, free to schools or slash them everywhere in the stadium resulting is less income than we have now not one compelling reason as to why this was saints destiny was ever given. It was left to clutching at things like it being possible because they once said man would never walk on the moon or climb Everest and all you need are Dreams and ambition.

 

Saints are pretty much where the dream stampers/trolls/idiots/dell sized mentality posters said we would be, a top 10 club who can challenge for the top 4 now and again if things go right but ultimately have our very best players picked off. Meanwhile the merry group of self titled intelligent posters seem to have disband taking their dreams, ambition and easy jet pricing models with them.

 

Stop stamping on people's dreams with your sensible message.

[Batman]

there is no way we will keep up this current top form for the rest of the season.

we will finish top 10 now, no danger IMO but a hard push, may get another EL spot

[ALWAYS_SFC]

there is no way we will keep up this current top form for the rest of the season.

we will finish top 10 now, no danger IMO but a hard push, may get another EL spot

 

Why? Based on what?

[The9]

there is no way we will keep up this current top form for the rest of the season.

we will finish top 10 now, no danger IMO but a hard push, may get another EL spot

 

Well, it would be rather unexpected if we went the remaining 12 games without conceding, the all time world record (and Premier League record) for successive league clean sheets is 14 matches by Man U in 2008/9, and we've "only" done 6 so far. So stating the obvious a little there.

 

Hoping for a Man City League Cup win in a week's time, which will make a EL place a little easier by moving the EL qualification positions down to 6th assuming City finish in the top 5*.

 

NB If City come outside the top 4 and win the League Cup they take a EL space for Cup winners, but assuming they come 5th it pushes the first EL qualification position to 6th. If they come 6th you'd still have to finish 5th to make the EL (unless the FA Cup winner is also in the top 6, in which case 7th becomes a EL qualifier as well).

[Batman]

Well, it would be rather unexpected if we went the remaining 12 games without conceding, the all time world record (and Premier League record) for successive league clean sheets is 14 matches by Man U in 2008/9, and we've "only" done 6 so far. So stating the obvious a little there.

 

Hoping for a Man City League Cup win in a week's time, which will make a EL place a little easier by moving the EL qualification positions down to 6th assuming City finish in the top 5*.

 

NB If City come outside the top 4 and win the League Cup they take a EL space for Cup winners, but assuming they come 5th it pushes the first EL qualification position to 6th. If they come 6th you'd still have to finish 5th to make the EL (unless the FA Cup winner is also in the top 6, in which case 7th becomes a EL qualifier as well).

dont take it so literally. I was just on about the results....winning 4 out of every 5 or so

[The9]

dont take it so literally. I was just on about the results....winning 4 out of every 5 or so

 

Ha, that was your best bet of answering this question, too...

 

Why? Based on what?

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Ha, that was your best bet of answering this question, too...

 

Just based on his saints negative mantra...

[CB Fry]

Naa, I definitely remember you taking the **** out of anyone suggesting we could get a Champions League place, in your usual playground, pre-pre-pubesent sarcasm. Banging on about how much Everton have spent only to achieve it once etc.

 

The stadium one is interesting, there is obvious no great demand to increase the size at the moment, but in the future it depends on what the owners plans are. As we have a billionaire owner, if they have big long term plans then maybe it is worth thinking about. Saints are unique in a way in that they are the only decent sized club who have achieved their record attendance this century, a bit of sustained success (with the odd trophy here and there) - and their may be potential. The only time we have ever had real success we were limited by the Dell.

 

Why do you think MK Dons have a 30,500 seater stadium? There is obviously no demand for it now or the near future, or probably ever. But if you are a rich owner with big ambition it makes sense to put things in place for the future if you want to build something.

 

1. I'm not sure you ever read anything Turkish writes. He's already clearly outlined who he was taking the p** out of and why. Try reading it again. And has now been said to you repeatedly, no one has ever said we would never make the Champions League. As Leicester are proving, it can be done.

 

2. We already know the owners plans about expanding. We've been told. We are not expanding the stadium any time soon, there is no business case to do so, as many of us said many times over in the last five years. If in five years time we have a brand new owner and a they announce we will do it then I am sure you will be back on this forum pretending that "people said we would never expand the stadium". So that's something for you to look forward to, ain't it?

[aintforever]

1. I'm not sure you ever read anything Turkish writes.

 

What like this little sarcastic beauty on the 'Is Cortese's top 4 ambition achievable?' thread?

 

"We are almost there already. We already have arugably as many match going fans as Everton, we have Corteses ambition and investment and a champions league standard training ground not finished. We have champions league standard posters around the stadium and champions league standard season ticket DVD packaging. We have a mad scramble for tickets for every home game and as we can see from the recent non sell outs, it's already back to the stage where people dont think they'll get a ticket so dont even bother trying, it seems like Cheslea we too have magiced up 20,000 extra fans from somewhere, we just need the stadium expand to fit them all in now. With our huge catchment area which covers something like 3/4's of the globe now the only thing that remains is a Yank to sign and sit on the bench for a few months and Southampton will be truely global.So much off the pitch is already champions league ready as we can see. Couple this with the undeniable evidence that man certainly did climb Everest AND walk on the moon, despite people saying they wouldn't and some might say that not only is the champions league achievable, our unstoppable march to it is on the home straight."