Season tickets prices

[Clunge]

What's everyone expecting? With the new TV deal I'd hope a freeze on prices would be a realistic price for next season, any sort of rise is unjustifiable in my opinion.

[beatlesaint]

as its such a newsworthy topic at the moment it would be nice to think the club would do a bit of PR and drop the prices, even if it was only a token amount of 2 or 3 %.

 

I do however expect that the prices will be frozen.

[ladysaint]

I hope they also drop the prices or include FA Cup/League Cup or even European matches within the price of the season ticket or reward those who have been loyal over the years in some way which I thought they were going to do a number of years ago but it didn't seem to happen.

[The Cat]

I reckon they'll freeze season tickets and add a quid to match day prices. They don't need to go to much effort on season tickets because I imagine the vast majority will renew anyway.

[The9]

What's everyone expecting? With the new TV deal I'd hope a freeze on prices would be a realistic price for next season, any sort of rise is unjustifiable in my opinion.

 

I expect them to freeze prices again, and sneakily put up how often they charge booking fees, postage fees and any other fees they can think of to make the real cost higher.

 

If the club's watching, I'd rather the money off the cost of a laminated box and you email me telling me to come and collect it than pay admin fees that should already be included in the cost, and which are a drop in the ocean compared to the new tv money.

 

Ideally I'd like a free one, but within reason, what I'd like to see is a 10% drop in renewal costs, with an additional 1% off for every consecutive season that person has been an ST holder up to a maximum of 20% more. Just because.

Edited 10 February, 2016 by The9

[100%Red&White]

Maybe they could reintroduce the Early-Bird renewal and offer a reasonable discount that way. But as just about every PL club voting against capping 'away' tickets when that was an easily doable proposal then I have my doubts. Unless this Scouse walk-out rapidly escalates.

[MarkSFC]

I hope they reduce prices by the equivalent of 1-1.5 games but I suspect they wont. They should at least "add value" to the ST prices in the form of extra games - the first league cup game or games, Round 3 or 4 of the FA Cup if at home. 10-15% off ancillary sales. Those who purchase up front in bulk deserve more value for their money.

 

I think they should reward the away fans who have been to more than half with something decent. Loyalty programs work and drive sales as long as they appear to be worthwhile....Boots being a good example, Casinos/betting companies being poor examples!

 

Saints are promoting the image of being leaders and innovators in the sport.....be great to see something great focused on its customers, sorry I mean fans!!

[angelman]

I expect them to freeze prices again, and sneakily put up how often they charge booking fees, postage fees and any other fees they can think of to make the real cost higher.

 

If the club's watching, I'd rather the money off the cost of a laminated box and you email me telling me to come and collect it than pay admin fees that should already be included in the cost, and which are a drop in the ocean compared to the new tv money.

 

Ideally I'd like a free one, but within reason, what I'd like to see is a 10% drop in renewal costs, with an additional 1% off for every consecutive season that person has been an ST holder up to a maximum of 20% more. Just because.

 

I suspect it might be frozen. Dropping by 1 or 2% is tacit acknowledgement that we are being fleeced and not worth doing. A 5-10% would be worthwhile but I cannot see it happening.

 

I would agree that I don't need a laminated box and pin. Just put them in an envelope and post them.

[Patrick Bateman]

I think it would be right and proper to keep the prices as they are, but include two home cup matches for either the League Cup or FA Cup?

[angelman]

and what happens if we aren't at home in the cup games?

[Toadhall Saint]

and what happens if we aren't at home in the cup games?

 

Tough titty[emoji6]

[davefoggy]

Just some acknowlegment of loyalty would be nice. Like many on here, i'm a long term season ticket holder and have had a season ticket every year since 1992/93. But not once have the club recgonised my continued support. I dont know what i'm expecting to be honest, but i run my own business and personally make sure that my long term customers are aware of how much i appreciate their custom.

I guess they know football fans are not going to go elsewhere so they have us over a barrel. I will re-new next season regardless if the price is higher or not, and the club know that

[Batman]

Just some acknowlegment of loyalty would be nice. Like many on here, i'm a long term season ticket holder and have had a season ticket every year since 1992/93. But not once have the club recgonised my continued support. I dont know what i'm expecting to be honest, but i run my own business and personally make sure that my long term customers are aware of how much i appreciate their custom.

I guess they know football fans are not going to go elsewhere so they have us over a barrel. I will re-new next season regardless if the price is higher or not, and the club know that

 

and that is why you will not get anything at all

[Turkish]

I want them to bring in a hundred or so premium tickets for big games so we can have a good protest like the scousers but freeze or reduce them elsewhere and never talk about it.

[Daft Kerplunk]

Surely the big problem here is that unless all the other clubs don't do it, and especially the big ones who probably don't give two hoots, then we'd be at a disadvantage with the increased revenue they'd have and we didn't, however small it is.

 

The agents will already be making sure their 'clients' are getting the biggest slice of the pie so there probably isn't going to be that much money left to reduce ticket prices anyway. Unfortunate as that is, I think the club is in a very difficult position on this topic as it is not straightforward and the likes of Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs who will probably do what they want because they can due to the size of their fan bases and or their fans ability and willingness to pay will cock it up for everyone else.

 

The best way to get the club to the point where it makes sense to even think about reducing ticket prices is probably buy more merchandise and get to the ground and have your pre match pint(s) and pie there instead of going elsewhere until 5 minutes before kick off.

Edited 10 February, 2016 by Daft Kerplunk

[Saint Charlie]

Would be more bothered about how much we spend in the summer than how much my ST costs TBH.

 

The majority will buy almost regardless of the cost, unless it was a ludicrous rise.

 

Obviously prices are generally too high, but thats a given.

[whelk]

I want them to bring in a hundred or so premium tickets for big games so we can have a good protest like the scousers but freeze or reduce them elsewhere and never talk about it.

 

I know you have researched the detail but if they are getting £2m additional revenue it isn't just the few hundred £77 tickets increasing.

[Block 5]

Sooner or later, a Premier League club is going to bring their ticket prices in line with the other European leagues.

It will be a PR coup for that club.

Other clubs will follow suit.

 

The issue is a hot potato at the moment, and where Liverpool fans have led, others will follow.

It is incredibly bad PR for any club's fans to stage walk outs, especially during televised games, and I can't see other clubs risking the same negative media attention.

 

I would love it if Saints took the lead. It would certainly increase the perception that we are forward thinking, and a model for other clubs to follow.

 

The argument that PL clubs need that income is utter guff.

As this helpful graphic from the Independent shows, teams from the continent have lower prices AND are still successful in terms of trophies won.

 

[ant]

Any attempt to appease will likely be much of a muchness, won't it? Giving in one area just seems to mean taking from another. E.g. freezing the overall season ticket cost, but changing the 10% store discount from annual to a one-off purchase.

[Saint-Armstrong]

Liverpool's owners have backed down and frozen prices for next season. Issued a 945-word letter to their supporters this evening on the topic.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

The problem with all this talk of ticket price reductions is that although the Premier League is indeed awash with cash our clubs are very bad indeed at holding on to it. For example, mighty Arsenal and Liverpool combined made a profit (before tax) of just £6m in 2013/4.

 

If you want to see prices come down then wait until our clubs decide to get a handle of their costs.

[Saint-Armstrong]

Dear Liverpool supporters,

 

It has been a tumultuous week. On behalf of everyone at Fenway Sports Group and Liverpool Football Club, we would like to apologise for the distress caused by our ticket pricing plan for the 2016-17 season.

 

The three of us have been particularly troubled by the perception that we don’t care about our supporters, that we are greedy, and that we are attempting to extract personal profits at the club’s expense. Quite the opposite is true.

 

From our first days as owners we have understood that serving as custodians of this incredible institution is a distinct privilege and as such, we have been driven solely by the desire to return LFC to the pinnacle of football. In the world of modern football, growing the club in a sustainable way is essential to realising this objective.

 

To that end, we have never taken a single penny out of the football club. Instead we have injected vast sums of our own money to improve the playing squad and modernise LFC’s infrastructure - exemplified by the £120million advance from FSG to build the new Main Stand. This massive undertaking was made in order to provide more supporters access to Anfield and also to produce additional revenue to help us compete financially with clubs that have greater resources. When it opens in August this year, the stand will accomplish those goals, thereby fulfilling a promise we made upon acquiring LFC in 2010.

 

We were strongly engaged in the process to develop the ticketing plan for 2016-17. We met directly with representatives of LFC’s Supporters’ Committee and along with LFC management, wholeheartedly agreed with major concerns raised, notably: access for local and young supporters; engagement and access to Anfield for local children; access to Premier League matches for those in Liverpool most challenged by affordability.

 

We believe the plan successfully addressed these concerns and are disappointed that these elements have been either lost or, worse, characterised as cynical attempts to mask profiteering in the plan as a whole. Rather, we prefer to look at them as the parts of the ticketing plan we got right.

 

On the other hand, part of the ticketing plan we got wrong.

 

In addition to the other elements of the plan we proposed price increases on a number of tickets. These pricing actions generated growth in general admission ticketing revenue on a like-for-like basis exclusive of revenue from newly-added GA seats.

 

We believed by delivering a vastly improved seat offering in what will be the newest stand in English football, concentrating the price increases on those tickets typically purchased by fans least sensitive to affordability, and for LFC to begin repaying the £120million advance from FSG for the new Main Stand that these increases were supportable even in the context of growth in revenues from the new Premier League TV deal.

 

However, the widespread opposition to this element of the plan has made it clear that we were mistaken.

 

A great many of you have objected strongly to the £77 price level of our most expensive GA seats and expressed a clear expectation that the club should forego any increased revenue from raising prices on GA tickets in the current environment.

 

 

Message received.

 

After an intense period of consultation with LFC management we have decided to make major revisions to our ticketing structure for 2016-17:

 

- Removal of game categorisation – regardless of the opposition fans will pay the same price for matchday tickets.

 

- The pricing of tickets will be readjusted to result in zero revenue growth from GA ticketing on a like-for-like basis.

 

- Though individual ticket prices may move marginally from this season, we are freezing our 2016-17 GA ticket revenue at the 2015-16 level exclusive of newly-added seats in the new Main Stand.

 

- The price of our highest general admission ticket will be frozen at the 2015-16 level - £59.

 

- The price of our highest season ticket will be frozen at the 2015-16 level - £869. The lowest price reducing a further £25 from the 2015-16 level to £685, as well as all other tiers being frozen or reduced.

 

- £9 GA seats will be offered for each and every Premier League match, an allocation of more than 10,000 tickets across the season.

 

 

We would hasten to add that the other initiatives announced last week in the 2016-17 plan will remain:

 

- 17-21 young adult concession – 20,000 tickets across the Premier League season available at a 50 per cent reduction for young people.

 

- 1,000 tickets to Premier League matches across the season will be given away free of charge to Liverpool schoolchildren based on merit, as recommended by their teachers.

 

- As a sign of our commitment to this improved ticketing structure, we are further announcing that this plan shall be in effect for both the 2016-17 and 2017-18 seasons.

 

- For the next two seasons, LFC will not earn a single additional pound from increasing general admission ticket prices.

 

We believe we have demonstrated a willingness to listen carefully, reconsider our position, and act decisively. The unique and sacred relationship between Liverpool Football Club and its supporters has always been foremost in our minds. It represents the heartbeat of this extraordinary football club.

 

More than any other factor by far, that bond is what drives us to work tirelessly on behalf of the club and its future. We have great conviction in our world-class manager and our young, talented squad and know that in time the on-pitch success we all crave will be realised.

 

We look forward to sharing in that success with you.

 

John W Henry, Tom Werner, Mike Gordon

[Patrick Bateman]

and what happens if we aren't at home in the cup games?

 

I have no answer to that, it was an ill thought out idea!

[Saint Charlie]

Interesting they have removed game categorisation.

 

Also good policy on young people tickets.

[Block 5]

"The three of us have been particularly troubled by the perception that we don’t care about our supporters, that we are greedy, and that we are attempting to extract personal profits at the club’s expense."

 

Lulz.

 

Messrs Henry, Werner and Gordon are obviously from the caring, sharing millionaire demographic, right?

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Golden Balls]

They'll freeze it and make out like that's a big deal and really rewarding supporters. A 10% reduction would be a drop in the ocean for the club but the positive PR and increased gates would be worth it. We hardly ever sell out as it is.

[Chez]

I wonder if a club chose to drop ticket prices substantially whether that drop in income would be offset by reduced demands for pay rises from its players? Right now every player and every agent knows how much new money will be in the pot and how much they can subsequently squeeze out of the club with the next pay rise. Knock £5m off the income and agents have £5m less to try and grab.

[Block 5]

Ok Chez. I'll bite.

 

How come European clubs that win more trophies than English clubs and charge far less for tickets, still manage to attract top talent and pay them good money?

 

Are you suggesting that if clubs were to substantially drop ticket prices, there would be a resulting talent drain from the Premier League?

 

Maybe less foreign talent would come to England?

Maybe this would see clubs develop more home grown talent?

 

Who knows.

 

Perhaps the best thing is to do nothing and watch while players' wages and agents' fees increase exponentially and suck the very soul out of the once beautiful game.

 

Maybe monetisation and corporatisation of sport is a good thing.

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[The Cat]

This move by Liverpool can only be good news for fans of clubs yet to announce their prices. Anyone now raising theirs will be dropping a massive PR blunder. 5live had a good discussion earlier, Tony Pulis was on saying clubs should give away fans bigger allocations and £10 tickets to improve the atmosphere. Henry Winter then said something similar. It seems the media are finally waking up to the fact that atmospheres are dropping and that this looks bad for the Premier League's image when broadcasters are paying billions for the TV rights. The consensus was that away fans spark the atmosphere and we need to encourage as many of them to go to games as possible.

[angelman]

I posted this on another thread when it should possibly be here. It was in relation to the £30 cap for away supporters and the cost of season tickets at SMS

 

new sales/renewals for adults (ie the most expensive category)

 

Family @ £584/541 = £30.73/£28.47 per game

Wings @ £648/£599 = £34.11/£31.53 per game

Goals @ £678/£628 = £35.68/£33.05 per game

Central @ £737/682 = £38.79/£35.89 per game

Kingsland premium = £825/737 = £43.42/£38.79 per game

Itchen Premium = £853/759 = £44.89/£39.95 per game

 

For atmosphere, the goals should be made the same price as the Family at the least. That is where the noisiest should be.

 

I am also an advocate of (safe) standing. We all went for years without too much trouble, but of course Hillsborough happened, but that was down more to very poor crowd management. As a lot of people, especially the away supporters, stand this is actually more dangerous than the alternatives, but that's by the by. I think capacity can easily and safely be increased by something like 40% (I stand to be corrected), and if this is the case, and if a club didn't want to profiteer, then they could presumably lower tickets by 40% and still take the same revenue. This would be behind the goals and taking the current renewed adult price of £33.05 a game, this could be reduced to about £23.60, which I think most would find acceptable. I believe that there is a guide that says that safe standing could actually be in the ratio of 1:1.8 - if that was the case, although maybe a little extreme, to get the same revenue you could drop Goal tickets from £33.05 to £18.36, with the added bonus of a better atmosphere.

 

So ticket prices - to offer decent value without lowering current revenue (which the clubs seem unwilling to do even though billions are arriving) the answer is increase the capacity and that can only be done in the stadium's current form by bringing in standing. Everyone wins unless attendance stays the same, and people move from the more expensive seats to the cheaper standing. I was very disheartened when I asked my 9yo whether given the choice, he would prefer to stand or sit. He said sit, but then he has never experienced the terraces.

[rooney]

Saints players are always talking how much they appreciate they fans so why do they not appoint a spokesman to go to the board and ask for a reduction for us next year, in view of all that money they and the club will share?

[angelman]

Because the board would turn it around on to them and say that they could lower prices but it would mean lowering wages. They don't appreciate the fans that much!!

[OldNick]

I havent been for a couple of seasons as i resent paying £50 to subsidise players on massive wages with the inability to pass t their own player within 5 yards.

The players who get you off your seat are worth it but so many players are fortunate and find themselves in Pl sides and on massive overpaid salaries.

I had rarely missed a game in 45 years until now.

It is not the case of being able to afford, its a case of not wanting to afford. I can sit back from a distance and see how the fans are being treated as mugs and squeezed all the time.

I normally have no time for the Scouse fans but i have to raise my hat to them on this occasion, although iam sceptical as to the small print. Yes they may not categorise each game but perhpas put all games at the mid price which will then become a raise.

[oldsarum]

I posted this on another thread when it should possibly be here. It was in relation to the £30 cap for away supporters and the cost of season tickets at SMS

 

new sales/renewals for adults (ie the most expensive category)

 

Family @ £584/541 = £30.73/£28.47 per game

Wings @ £648/£599 = £34.11/£31.53 per game

Goals @ £678/£628 = £35.68/£33.05 per game

Central @ £737/682 = £38.79/£35.89 per game

Kingsland premium = £825/737 = £43.42/£38.79 per game

Itchen Premium = £853/759 = £44.89/£39.95 per game

 

For atmosphere, the goals should be made the same price as the Family at the least. That is where the noisiest should be.

 

I am also an advocate of (safe) standing. We all went for years without too much trouble, but of course Hillsborough happened, but that was down more to very poor crowd management. As a lot of people, especially the away supporters, stand this is actually more dangerous than the alternatives, but that's by the by. I think capacity can easily and safely be increased by something like 40% (I stand to be corrected), and if this is the case, and if a club didn't want to profiteer, then they could presumably lower tickets by 40% and still take the same revenue. This would be behind the goals and taking the current renewed adult price of £33.05 a game, this could be reduced to about £23.60, which I think most would find acceptable. I believe that there is a guide that says that safe standing could actually be in the ratio of 1:1.8 - if that was the case, although maybe a little extreme, to get the same revenue you could drop Goal tickets from £33.05 to £18.36, with the added bonus of a better atmosphere.

 

So ticket prices - to offer decent value without lowering current revenue (which the clubs seem unwilling to do even though billions are arriving) the answer is increase the capacity and that can only be done in the stadium's current form by bringing in standing. Everyone wins unless attendance stays the same, and people move from the more expensive seats to the cheaper standing. I was very disheartened when I asked my 9yo whether given the choice, he would prefer to stand or sit. He said sit, but then he has never experienced the terraces.

 

interesting that Liverpool's revised ticket prices are still more than ours

 

Most expensive £869 compared to ours £853

cheapest £685 as opposed to ours £584 Family centre, £648 Wings

[eelpie]

I had an ST for over ten years, but because so many matches now are moved to late midweek times, sometimes at short notice, and with travel from London becoming more difficult it has sadly become uneconomic to have one any longer.

[JRM]

I had an ST for over ten years, but because so many matches now are moved to late midweek times, sometimes at short notice, and with travel from London becoming more difficult it has sadly become uneconomic to have one any longer.

 

How many matches would that be then? we haven't had any Monday night home games this season, just Watford at home on a Wednesday night from what I can think of, and that is a normal mid-week fixture, in fact we seem to have fewer this year than in the past.

Has travel from London become more difficult than it used to be? Seems to be the same from my experience except for the occasional engineering works, but again nothing different to other seasons.

[positivepete]

The problem with the "big clubs" supporters calling for reduced prices is the effect it will have on the wider football pyramid. Take West Ham for example, when they start offering reduced price tickets next season because they cannot fill their new ground, what effect will that have on Leyton Orient and Dagenham? These clubs do not have massive PL money and sponsorship to subsidise ticket prices. Ticket sales are the main source of revenue for lower league clubs.

 

The problem will be even worse "up north" where the clubs are less geographically spread, the lower league teams will suddenly look expensive to visit in comparison to PL games.

 

The only saving grace is that most PL stadiums are full already, so it will not draw crowds from lower league games immediately, though as more clubs expand their stadiums this issue will raise itself.

[ladysaint]

It was good when the ST's included one free away trip each season with the travel club, I always took up this option and used it for travel to the furthest away game i.e. Sunderland or Newcastle mostly. Never like travelling by coach but as it was only one match and used to save about £30.

[eddie]

actually wouldn't surprise me if they put em down.

 

saints always likes to brand itself as being forward thinking and ahead of the times

think of St marys being this state of the art UEFA elite stadium w/ 'expandable capacity'....fairly forward thinking

or the academy etc.

 

for some reason just always had that impression, maybe just my experience

[Chez]

Ok Chez. I'll bite.

 

Are you suggesting that if clubs were to substantially drop ticket prices, there would be a resulting talent drain from the Premier League?

I think you misunderstood the tone of my post.

 

I was genuinely asking if losing income from ticket sales would have any effect at all on a club, because as recent history has shown, every time the TV money goes up the player wage demands goes up. So, the clubs don't really see the money, its just filters straight through to players bank accounts.

 

Cut ticket prices - players wages rise a fraction less - everyone is still happy.

[Chez]

It was good when the ST's included one free away trip each season with the travel club, I always took up this option and used it for travel to the furthest away game i.e. Sunderland or Newcastle mostly. Never like travelling by coach but as it was only one match and used to save about £30.

 

can't argue with a saving, but personally I've never benefited from the tied in deals, cheaper merchandise etc., so just dropping the bloody ticket prices is all that interests me.

[Chez]

interesting that Liverpool's revised ticket prices are still more than ours

 

Most expensive £869 compared to ours £853

cheapest £685 as opposed to ours £584 Family centre, £648 Wings

 

do you have to be accompanied with a child to sit in the family centre?

[stevegrant]

Interesting they have removed game categorisation.

And that is where they will think they can make up the shortfall of not introducing the higher prices in the new main stand.

 

With every game priced the same at Anfield next season, but the stated intention to freeze the existing top price of £59, that means that's the price you'll have to pay for a game against a lesser opponent as well as for, say, Man United.

 

The fans have got what they wanted with a removal of match categorisation, but they'll find that doesn't reduce ticket prices - it actually increases them for most games as *every* game is now ranked as Category A.

[oldsarum]

do you have to be accompanied with a child to sit in the family centre?

 

Officially yes, although I know someone who had season ticket in Block 20 who continued to sit in that area without a child for 3-4 seasons after it got incorporated in the Family Area

[The9]

I want them to bring in a hundred or so premium tickets for big games so we can have a good protest like the scousers but freeze or reduce them elsewhere and never talk about it.

 

Then when they only reduce the price of a tiny fraction of the 36% of tickets which are going up, not bother to make a fuss about that, because you've somehow made your point despite them still putting prices up for about 1/3 of fans...

[RedFear]

Then when they only reduce the price of a tiny fraction of the 36% of tickets which are going up, not bother to make a fuss about that, because you've somehow made your point despite them still putting prices up for about 1/3 of fans...

 

makes you wonder if that was the plan all along. make the fans feel good about themselves, makes the board look better in eyes of fans, but still get the (true) increase they wanted all along

[The9]

Surely the big problem here is that unless all the other clubs don't do it, and especially the big ones who probably don't give two hoots, then we'd be at a disadvantage with the increased revenue they'd have and we didn't, however small it is.

 

The best way to get the club to the point where it makes sense to even think about reducing ticket prices is probably buy more merchandise and get to the ground and have your pre match pint(s) and pie there instead of going elsewhere until 5 minutes before kick off.

 

The disadvantage from having less ticket revenue is offset by being on tv a couple of times or finishing one place higher in the league, which if last season is anything to go by, is down to how much of a "Friend" you have refereeing your key matches.

 

If they provide the opportunity to do in an environment fans actually wanted to be in, I'm sure people would. Man City have a decent fanzone thing outside and must rake it in from all the additional beer and food purchases at the mildly enhanced cost of sticking a big screen up and occasionally a stage. Saints could easily take over a few pubs in the area if they didn't want to go all out with the on-site stuff, but there's room for development if they actually want to create something. The Dell Bar isn't going to be to everyone's taste, so offer a variety of places. I guess the problem then is staffing them on an ad-hoc basis.

 

I'm fairly sure I couldn't buy any more merchandise if I wanted to though.

[The9]

makes you wonder if that was the plan all along. make the fans feel good about themselves, makes the board look better in eyes of fans, but still get the (true) increase they wanted all along

 

To be perfectly frank, £77 for the most expensive non-corporate ticket is a piddling amount for a club that claims to be so massive anyway. It's not like most tickets are those prices, nor that they don't offer community tickets for the disadvantaged etc. As I mentioned, there's an argument about ticket prices being too high, but that isn't it - FSG just have the misfortune to have tried something unpopular at the club that has the most organised bunch of whingers due to previous reasons for them to have organised themselves.

[whelk]

To be perfectly frank, £77 for the most expensive non-corporate ticket is a piddling amount for a club that claims to be so massive anyway. It's not like most tickets are those prices, nor that they don't offer community tickets for the disadvantaged etc. As I mentioned, there's an argument about ticket prices being too high, but that isn't it - FSG just have the misfortune to have tried something unpopular at the club that has the most organised bunch of whingers due to previous reasons for them to have organised themselves.

 

Thanks for pointing out you are smarter than the rest of us. Super smart

[whelk]

makes you wonder if that was the plan all along. make the fans feel good about themselves, makes the board look better in eyes of fans, but still get the (true) increase they wanted all along

 

Yeah you rumbled them. Well done