washsaint Posted 6 February, 2016 Share Posted 6 February, 2016 A few weeks back (understandably based on the appalling run we were on and I was among the doubters) a lot of people were questioning our buys and whether our 'black box' approach was broken and whether it was all down to Mitchell before he left. Think it is safe to say it is far from broken. Our summer buys all have something: Cedric - for me, he is now better than CLyne was in his last season for us and certainly better than the Liverpool CLyne. And for a 1/3 of the price Virgil - absolute class and love to see him marauding forward like an elegant midfielder. His heading ability is astonishing CLasie - now showing why Koeman wanted him so bad. His performance today was immense and looks a steal at 8 million Romeu - looking absolute class and for me, offers far more than Wanyama. Absolute steal at 5 million Austin - 4 million? Really - absolute bargain and am sure other clubs are kicking themselves for not getting him at that price Martina - has not let anyone down when he has played and no risk for 1 million Juanmi - bought for the future and jury still out Hopefully we can have a stable summer and give it a real go next season Bravo Les Reed and co Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 6 February, 2016 Share Posted 6 February, 2016 Cedric isn't better than Clyne was for us IMO. He has improved a lot and is doing well but Clyne was ultra reliable. Others are improving and VVD is quality and has been from game one. Nice to sign someone like Austin who doesn't need a few months to reach the required level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 6 February, 2016 Share Posted 6 February, 2016 Good luck replacing Mane though next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocco boxo Posted 6 February, 2016 Share Posted 6 February, 2016 Virgil what a buy and I have to be honest , I thought he was useless when we signed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 6 February, 2016 Share Posted 6 February, 2016 We're playing well, so they're all brilliant signings. Perhaps if we lose next week they'll be slightly worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 6 February, 2016 Share Posted 6 February, 2016 I've come round to Virgil after that tackle in the box near the end at Arsenal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 6 February, 2016 Share Posted 6 February, 2016 (edited) Good luck replacing Mane though next season. Replacing an attacking player who hasn't scored since last October could be pretty tricky........ yes I'm aware he is exciting going forward but really were is the end product at the moment? No goals in ages and not a lot of assists either. I really like Mane but right now he is well under par compared to last season. Edited 6 February, 2016 by doddisalegend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 6 February, 2016 Share Posted 6 February, 2016 I've come round to Virgil after that tackle in the box near the end at Arsenal. Huh? He's clearly been an utterly brilliant signing since the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 6 February, 2016 Share Posted 6 February, 2016 Huh? He's clearly been an utterly brilliant signing since the start. Had quite a few shakey moments during our 2 wins in 10 period. Has always looked the part but personally I hadn't seen enough if his game, eg getting down to make goal saving tackles in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 7 February, 2016 Share Posted 7 February, 2016 Replacing an attacking player who hasn't scored since last October could be pretty tricky........ yes I'm aware he is exciting going forward but really were is the end product at the moment? No goals in ages and not a lot of assists either. I really like Mane but right now he is well under par compared to last season. THIS ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted 7 February, 2016 Share Posted 7 February, 2016 For me Cedric is definitely improving but not at same level as clyne was yet. Clyne' snot the problem in the Liverpool defence IMO, a good player can get lost in a bad unit. Clasie's been very good. Saw glimpses in early displays and had faith he'd adapt. Romeu has won me over, poor at start with crazy challenges, last 3/4 games he's mixed strength and a bit of ball ability. Just hope he remains consistent. Virgil's done well. Good option since we failed to keep hold of the excellent Toby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 7 February, 2016 Share Posted 7 February, 2016 Wanyama doing us a favour allowing us to road test Clasie/Romeo for a run of matches ahead of next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 7 February, 2016 Share Posted 7 February, 2016 For me Cedric is definitely improving but not at same level as clyne was yet. Clyne' snot the problem in the Liverpool defence IMO, a good player can get lost in a bad unit. Clasie's been very good. Saw glimpses in early displays and had faith he'd adapt. Romeu has won me over, poor at start with crazy challenges, last 3/4 games he's mixed strength and a bit of ball ability. Just hope he remains consistent. Virgil's done well. Good option since we failed to keep hold of the excellent Toby. Well I think he's going to get a run of 5 games at least - so we shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 7 February, 2016 Share Posted 7 February, 2016 Problem with Clasie is that he is fragile. Pulled up last night with a strain and was hobbling for 5 minutes until he was pulled off. Hopefully not enough damage to stop him playing at Swansea, but we need a replacement on the bench to come in a replace him - I guess that will be Davis as Reed is not favoured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 7 February, 2016 Share Posted 7 February, 2016 Problem with Clasie is that he is fragile. Pulled up last night with a strain and was hobbling for 5 minutes until he was pulled off. Hopefully not enough damage to stop him playing at Swansea, but we need a replacement on the bench to come in a replace him - I guess that will be Davis as Reed is not favoured. Yeah, hopefully Davis will be back for the weekend & it will be a straight pick between JWP or Clasie to partner Romeu. Harrison Reed to get promoted to the bench maybe? Swansea aren't overly physical in central midfield really, but feel we will need somebody to shadow Gylfi Sigurdsson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 7 February, 2016 Share Posted 7 February, 2016 I hope the black box doesn't spew out players who need 20 games to get a run in the side and physically up to speed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 7 February, 2016 Share Posted 7 February, 2016 I hope the black box doesn't spew out players who need 20 games to get a run in the side and physically up to speed... ...for £8m when we can get the real thing fit and rearing to go for only £25m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 9 February, 2016 Share Posted 9 February, 2016 Yeah, hopefully Davis will be back for the weekend & it will be a straight pick between JWP or Clasie to partner Romeu. Harrison Reed to get promoted to the bench maybe? Swansea aren't overly physical in central midfield really, but feel we will need somebody to shadow Gylfi Sigurdsson. I'd agree with that assessment, and maybe change out JWP / Clasie in 2nd half. With Wanyama out, Harry Reed will most likely get a bench place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 9 February, 2016 Share Posted 9 February, 2016 With Wanyama out, Harry Reed will most likely get a bench place. More likely S.Davis and Targett come into the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austsaint Posted 9 February, 2016 Share Posted 9 February, 2016 Wanyama doing us a favour allowing us to road test Clasie/Romeo for a run of matches ahead of next season. Is that the Alpha mail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 9 February, 2016 Share Posted 9 February, 2016 I hope the black box doesn't spew out players who need 20 games to get a run in the side and physically up to speed ...for £8m when we can get the real thing fit and rearing to go for only £25m. Fairly sure that is our business model, whether that changes when we get more tv money and can afford to buy more finished products from other leagues will be interesting to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Biscuits Posted 9 February, 2016 Share Posted 9 February, 2016 For me Cedric is definitely improving but not at same level as clyne was yet. Clyne' snot the problem in the Liverpool defence IMO, a good player can get lost in a bad unit. Is that what happened to Lovren? AAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Ahem..... Sorry, sometimes I just crack myself up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 10 February, 2016 Share Posted 10 February, 2016 If only we had a black box equivalent for recruiting the best academy players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 10 February, 2016 Share Posted 10 February, 2016 If only we had a black box equivalent for recruiting the best academy players We probably do. Just that were are recruiting players much younger than the U18s team where the current performance issues are based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 10 February, 2016 Share Posted 10 February, 2016 If only we had a black box equivalent for recruiting the best academy players It is used for player recruitment at all levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 10 February, 2016 Share Posted 10 February, 2016 I'll keep repeating myself because those moaning about the Academy need to understand how player recruitment works. We recruit players at the age of 8-10. That isn't a strict rule but that is largely when players first properly train with the Academy and the club has a proper handle on their ability. Two things impact this: 1. The quality of the scouting. 2. The quality of the recruitment. Scouting depends on being aware of young talent and (crucially) ensuring you are a part of the conversation when trying to attract them to the club. This is because other clubs will be interested in them as well. Your most important thing when scouting is to have a network. You don't need dozens and dozens of scouts employed by the club watching 8-10 year olds every week. You need half a dozen scouts watching identified talent and those scouts just as importantly need a network of contacts so they can be made aware of emerging talent. Sometimes those scouts will go to a game to watch a kid that has been recommended to them and identify someone else. Recruitment is about how you convince the talented kid and his parents that Saints is the place for him to be. It is about how you provide evidence that his on and off field development is best served at Saints as opposed any other club. There will also be personal factors at play which may or may not play to the clubs advantage but it is rare clubs can control them and they just have to deal with them. Now, good scouting requires money. Good recruitment requires money and the club being in a good state. Many of the last two years U18 intake were 8 in 2006, 2007 or 2008. Saints were not in a good shape back then. Budgets were being cut and the club was going in one direction. It affected our ability to identify talent and our ability to attract talent. So much so that for the past few years we have had to supplement our U18 intake with kids released from other Academies (Chelsea and Arsenal in particular). What you get with Academy investment is a payoff 10 years after you get it right. Conversely, if you get it wrong you get the issues 10 years later too. Right now the intakes are from a time when the club was not in good shape. It is not a reflection of the current regime in any respect. Neither, by the way (and in the interest of fairness), was/is JWP, Luke Shaw, Calum Chambers etc. They came into the club before the current takeover. We'll only know if Les Reed got recruitment right for the Academy team from 2019/20 onwards. That's how long it takes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli Posted 10 February, 2016 Share Posted 10 February, 2016 Some good points all round - one of the best threads on this forum for quite a while. I agree with the points about the academy. We are seeing the impact on the academy of being a Div 1 mid table side. In five years time, I think we will see a batch coming through close to the 2005 cup final squad in terms of quality. As for this years signings I would add my two pence worth Cedric not quite as good as Clyne was but better than is. I don't really think we've missed Clyne. Five clean sheets has convinced me. VVD - like others I had reservations. No doubting his brilliance but it counts for nothing if you make schoolboy errors. Again, five clean sheets suggests an element of consistency coming into his game. Quite happy that he is as goos as Toby (but oh, wouldn't it be great to see them in the same Saints side!) Classy - getting there! Will never be a Morgan but if we play slightly differently we will not miss him. Morgan may miss us though..... Romeu - better than Wanyama in my book Austin - too early to say but looking good so far! Juanmi - I think he is as disappointed as we are. Again, no doubting his brilliance but does he really suit our style of play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 10 February, 2016 Share Posted 10 February, 2016 We recruit players from 6 onwards. My youngest's friend is in the Academy and he was only 7 the other day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 10 February, 2016 Share Posted 10 February, 2016 A few weeks back (understandably based on the appalling run we were on and I was among the doubters) a lot of people were questioning our buys and whether our 'black box' approach was broken and whether it was all down to Mitchell before he left. Think it is safe to say it is far from broken. Our summer buys all have something: Cedric - for me, he is now better than CLyne was in his last season for us and certainly better than the Liverpool CLyne. And for a 1/3 of the price Virgil - absolute class and love to see him marauding forward like an elegant midfielder. His heading ability is astonishing CLasie - now showing why Koeman wanted him so bad. His performance today was immense and looks a steal at 8 million Romeu - looking absolute class and for me, offers far more than Wanyama. Absolute steal at 5 million Austin - 4 million? Really - absolute bargain and am sure other clubs are kicking themselves for not getting him at that price Martina - has not let anyone down when he has played and no risk for 1 million Juanmi - bought for the future and jury still out Hopefully we can have a stable summer and give it a real go next season Bravo Les Reed and co Yet it required the return of the first-choice GK for it all to come together... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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