benali-shorts Posted 23 January, 2016 Share Posted 23 January, 2016 From The Times. The gist being average crosses per game now 28 vs 42 in 2003. And average cross accuracy diminished too (33% down to 20%). Saints achieve 23.5% crossing accuracy, an impressive 3% higher than any other team. Tadic and Soares good stats, Tadic highest number 102 @ 24%, Soares highest accuracy 83 @ 29%. Width our friend. Less good than the Death of grass, but worth a read nevertheless. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/football/article4672267.ece The death of crossing: why teams all now want to get the ball to ‘Zone 14’ instead that once defined our game Sir Alex Ferguson was unequivocal. Certain things, the Scot always felt, were non-negotiable. “We like wingers at Manchester United, and we always have,” he once said. It was a proud tradition, and one he did his utmost to maintain. Over the course of his reign, from Kanchelskis to Ronaldo by way of Giggs and Beckham, he produced teams illuminated by dazzling wide players. That has all changed now, and not only at Old Trafford. Across the English game, what one of the beneficiaries of Ferguson’s tastes, Dwight Yorke, describes as the “classic style of football” is fading from view. Width has gone out of fashion, replaced by an obsession with possession, lone strikers and inverted wingers. With it has gone a defining feature of the English game. The art of crossing, it seems, is dying. According to figures provided to The Times by Opta, there has been a staggering decline in the number of crosses in the Barclays Premier League in the last decade and a half. In the 2003-04 campaign, an average match produced not far off 42 crosses. So far this season, that figure has slipped to 29 — a reduction of a third in little more than 10 years. That is coupled with an even more marked drop in just how effective crossing is. In 2003, roughly a third of crosses found their target. This season, only a fifth of balls played in from wide areas have picked out a team-mate. Nowhere is that more notable than at Manchester City. Despite spending almost £100 million on Raheem Sterling and Kevin de Bruyne, only 13 per cent of Manuel Pellegrini’s side’s crosses so far this year have been successful. No team in the Premier League have been more profligate in their delivery, and yet they keep trying. Only Southampton and Crystal Palace cross more often than City. “If you’re a full back, when you get into a wide area, you’re looking to see your striker and maybe one of your midfield players in the box,” says Andy Hinchcliffe, who found himself in such a situation thousands of times for City, Everton and England. “But what if that striker is Sergio Agüero and the midfielder is David Silva, and they’re surrounded? You know crossing will not be effective. So you check back in, play a pass, conserve possession.” There is no question, in the minds of those who know the subject, that the profile of centre forwards has changed in recent years. As Hinchcliffe notes, there are few of the old bulldozers left, replaced by craftier, more gifted — but substantially smaller — strikers. It is an assessment supported by Les Ferdinand, as fine a header of the ball as English football has seen in the past 30 years and now director of football at Queens Park Rangers. “Every forward that comes to me now is a No 10,” he says. “That is how they see themselves. They are not No 9s who want to head the ball. Most teams play with one up front and three rotating behind them; the forwards are not trying to win headers and the players behind them are not looking to cross the ball.” Indeed, instead of seeking to reach the byline — as Ryan Giggs might have done — or attempting to whip a ball in from deep, like David Beckham, players are now largely instructed to cut back inside. “In a lot of the coaching literature, the focus is on what they call Zone 14,” explains James Scowcroft, the former Ipswich Town forward now coaching at the club’s academy and studying for his Uefa A Licence. “It’s the part of the pitch about as wide as the six-yard box, around 25 or 30 yards out from goal. A lot of studies have been done to show that is where most goals come from, where through-balls are most likely to be successful. Players are encouraged to get into those positions and wait for an opportunity. That is seen as much more effective than crossing.” Hinchcliffe’s instinct is the same. “Crossing is gambling with possession,” he says. “A lot of coaches, inspired by Barcelona, don’t want to give the ball away. There is a risk-free approach; you don’t want to lose the ball and find yourself exposed, with your full backs high up the pitch, to a counterattack. So you play inverted wingers, whose first touch brings them inside, and everything is focused through the middle.” This is a shift from the way that generation of players were taught to play. “As a kid, I was told to get five crosses in per half, ten a game,” says Kevin Kilbane, formerly of Everton. “That was your job as a winger. That was the primary thing you were judged on. I’m not sure that’s the case now. Players are encouraged to be what they used to call inside, not outside, forwards.” There is an element of self-fulfilling prophecy about all this. Statistics do show that games with more crosses from open play tend to have fewer goals; one study suggested only one out of every 91 crosses leads to a goal. Teams have interpreted that to mean it is not a reliable method of scoring; they play with only one striker in systems that seem designed to prove how ineffective crossing has become. Far better, they feel, to keep the ball, to wait for the perfect opportunity to score, to consign that classic style to history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaMarlin Posted 23 January, 2016 Share Posted 23 January, 2016 Two words. Paine, Terry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 23 January, 2016 Share Posted 23 January, 2016 Two words. Paine, Terry. Exactly. (along with another two - John Sydenham). But since these two, who have actually been able to cross a ball ? I recall a relative describing a few crosses from Rod Wallace as a 'Terry Paine type cross' , but other than that there haven't been many. Danny Wallace was a hit and hope crosser, and too many wide players now (and for the last 25 years) have been regarded wingers because of pace, nothing else. Their idea of a cross is to launch it into the penalty area in hope. Mind you, Paine & Sydenham if playing now would tear their hair out, without someone like Big Ron to aim for and take advantage of their crosses. Lambert aside that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 23 January, 2016 Share Posted 23 January, 2016 Two words. Paine, Terry. You took those two words right out of my mouth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 23 January, 2016 Share Posted 23 January, 2016 I grew up with wingers and proper old centre forwards and do miss those days. But if crosses produce fewer goals than playing the ball in from zone 14 then you cant blame coaches for changing their tactics. Not as good to watch though. I think possession is vastly overrated and we are seeing more teams playing on the counter nowadays so for me that is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 23 January, 2016 Share Posted 23 January, 2016 Just more crap from 'statistical analysis'. I am amazed that people buy all this garbage. Modern coaching seems to be invented in classrooms buy geeks with no playing experience, and then gets swallowed up by people who have to learn it for their licences. Look at how the modern goalkeeper is coached, punch everything and open your body up like a starfish whenever you can. You only have to look at how many keepers concede through their legs now compared to 25 years ago. As a keeper, letting one in through your legs was the cardinal sin, as well as conceding at your near post, but both are now normal thanks to 'modern coaching'. Cue the dinosaur comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintalan Posted 23 January, 2016 Share Posted 23 January, 2016 Exactly. (along with another two - John Sydenham). But since these two, who have actually been able to cross a ball ? I recall a relative describing a few crosses from Rod Wallace as a 'Terry Paine type cross' , but other than that there haven't been many. Danny Wallace was a hit and hope crosser, and too many wide players now (and for the last 25 years) have been regarded wingers because of pace, nothing else. Their idea of a cross is to launch it into the penalty area in hope. Mind you, Paine & Sydenham if playing now would tear their hair out, without someone like Big Ron to aim for and take advantage of their crosses. Lambert aside that is. Tom & Gerry? My memory's a bit blurred! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 23 January, 2016 Share Posted 23 January, 2016 Exactly. (along with another two - John Sydenham). But since these two, who have actually been able to cross a ball ? I recall a relative describing a few crosses from Rod Wallace as a 'Terry Paine type cross' , but other than that there haven't been many. Danny Wallace was a hit and hope crosser, and too many wide players now (and for the last 25 years) have been regarded wingers because of pace, nothing else. Their idea of a cross is to launch it into the penalty area in hope. Mind you, Paine & Sydenham if playing now would tear their hair out, without someone like Big Ron to aim for and take advantage of their crosses. Lambert aside that is. Wayne Bridge could put a decent ball in. Austin will eat them up all day long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 23 January, 2016 Share Posted 23 January, 2016 Well done Dusan Tadic for being top of the charts with some excellent stats. A real testament to the fine contribution this excellent player has made for the team this season. I have no doubt the history books will record how he has excelled for Southampton since his arrival. Keep making history Dusan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 23 January, 2016 Share Posted 23 January, 2016 Just more crap from 'statistical analysis'. I am amazed that people buy all this garbage. Modern coaching seems to be invented in classrooms buy geeks with no playing experience, and then gets swallowed up by people who have to learn it for their licences. Look at how the modern goalkeeper is coached, punch everything and open your body up like a starfish whenever you can. You only have to look at how many keepers concede through their legs now compared to 25 years ago. As a keeper, letting one in through your legs was the cardinal sin, as well as conceding at your near post, but both are now normal thanks to 'modern coaching'. Cue the dinosaur comments. Agree! I was only moaning about goalies and the amount of near post schoolboy errors last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 23 January, 2016 Share Posted 23 January, 2016 Personally I'll be quite happy if we spend the entire afternoon sticking it in the mixer for the big man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 23 January, 2016 Share Posted 23 January, 2016 Personally I'll be quite happy if we spend the entire afternoon sticking it in the mixer for the big man. Bypass the midfield, straight up there, bang! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 23 January, 2016 Share Posted 23 January, 2016 Wayne Bridge could put a decent ball in. Austin will eat them up all day long. Nice to prove that I don't talk total crap all of the time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 23 January, 2016 Share Posted 23 January, 2016 Personally I'll be quite happy if we spend the entire afternoon sticking it in the mixer for the big man. Bypass the midfield, straight up there, bang! Great fans of Branfoot were you ? Forget Austin, what we've really been missing is An Ian Dowie or a Paul Moody up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 24 January, 2016 Share Posted 24 January, 2016 The death of crossing is partially linked to the rise of possession football. 23% success means 77% failure. Thing is, if you stop doing anything completely you just make yourselves predictable - you have to cross occasionally to keep defenders thinking about the possibility. There's also not much detail of the kind of crosses - crappy floaters are pointless, quick balls in behind defenders who are facing their own goal are much more successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Kint Posted 25 January, 2016 Share Posted 25 January, 2016 Just more crap from 'statistical analysis'. I am amazed that people buy all this garbage. Modern coaching seems to be invented in classrooms buy geeks with no playing experience, and then gets swallowed up by people who have to learn it for their licences. Look at how the modern goalkeeper is coached, punch everything and open your body up like a starfish whenever you can. You only have to look at how many keepers concede through their legs now compared to 25 years ago. As a keeper, letting one in through your legs was the cardinal sin, as well as conceding at your near post, but both are now normal thanks to 'modern coaching'. Cue the dinosaur comments. I agree with this. Surely the style of play should be based around your centre forward(s) who you expect to score most of your goals? With Pelle in the team we should be playing with genuine wide players and full backs on the overlap, getting balls in from the byline as much as possible. With Long we can mix things up a bit more. I doubt Barcelona wold have much success with Messi and Suarez up front by having everything going down the flanks and crossing every time. Play to the strengths of your goalscorers as they are the ones that win you games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippineSaint Posted 25 January, 2016 Share Posted 25 January, 2016 What the heck is zone 14 when it's at home or for that matter where is is ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brmbrm Posted 25 January, 2016 Share Posted 25 January, 2016 Just more crap from 'statistical analysis'. I am amazed that people buy all this garbage. Modern coaching seems to be invented in classrooms buy geeks with no playing experience, and then gets swallowed up by people who have to learn it for their licences. Look at how the modern goalkeeper is coached, punch everything and open your body up like a starfish whenever you can. You only have to look at how many keepers concede through their legs now compared to 25 years ago. As a keeper, letting one in through your legs was the cardinal sin, as well as conceding at your near post, but both are now normal thanks to 'modern coaching'. Cue the dinosaur comments. Agree and have two comments. It is self-fulfilling: people buy the statistics because they are afraid to be different, hence the trends. On the bright side this is where innovative clubs like SFC can benefit by out-thinking the trend-followers. Back in the old days (yes, old enough, but not trying to decry changes that have lead to modern football) the emphasis was getting to the bye line ad crossing backwards, or at least square. My feeling is that with the years people cross from deeper and deeper, easier for the defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslo Posted 25 January, 2016 Share Posted 25 January, 2016 The hostile attitude to statistical analysis sounds like what baseball fans were saying in the '70s and '80s. They were wrong but not completely. Now they would be completely wrong. We don't know whether football will turn out to be as subject to statistical analysis as baseball as technology advances and more science gets done but it is foolish to reject the idea that statistical analysis, when done right, can add insight to the process or running a football club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfahaji Posted 25 January, 2016 Share Posted 25 January, 2016 As soon as every team starts to conform to a certain style or tactic there will be an opportunity for someone to exploit it by going against the status quo, or even reverting to an old style. If statistics, perhaps rightly, suggest that teams would do better to have pacey defenders instead of tall ones to combat the trend in strikers, suddenly Andy Carroll will be scoring every week and those statistics will look silly. I'm a fan of crossing but prefer to see wide players getting round the back and deliver outswinging balls. Even though crossing from deep is sometimes effective and the right ball, it can end up feeling like an extension of hoof ball, as teams run out of ideas so just lob one into the box. As The9 says above, variety is the key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsbridge Saint Posted 25 January, 2016 Share Posted 25 January, 2016 Football is simply a better watch when possession changes hands more frequently. This obsession with possession whilst going nowhere is essentially a defensive strategy that is slowly killing the game. United being a prime example. The x6 button on my TV Remote has never been more welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 25 January, 2016 Share Posted 25 January, 2016 Bypass the midfield, straight up there, bang! Come back Charles Hughes - all is forgiven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 25 January, 2016 Share Posted 25 January, 2016 Agree and have two comments. It is self-fulfilling: people buy the statistics because they are afraid to be different, hence the trends. On the bright side this is where innovative clubs like SFC can benefit by out-thinking the trend-followers. Back in the old days (yes, old enough, but not trying to decry changes that have lead to modern football) the emphasis was getting to the bye line ad crossing backwards, or at least square. My feeling is that with the years people cross from deeper and deeper, easier for the defender. Nail on head. When the ball is lofted forward it is easier for the defenders to attack the ball. When the ball is pulled back it is easier for players (attackers) to run on to and is harder for the defenders as they have to turn. I played at CH for a number of years and used to love the ball being launched at me from the front as it was so easy to defend against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 25 January, 2016 Share Posted 25 January, 2016 Players like Martin Peters and John Walk used to score lots of goals by arriving late from midfield into the area onto balls pulled back to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano6 Posted 26 January, 2016 Share Posted 26 January, 2016 What the heck is zone 14 when it's at home or for that matter where is is ? It’s the part of the pitch about as wide as the six-yard box, around 25 or 30 yards out from goal. A lot of studies have been done to show that is where most goals come from, where through-balls are most likely to be successful. Players are encouraged to get into those positions and wait for an opportunity. That is seen as much more effective than crossing. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippineSaint Posted 26 January, 2016 Share Posted 26 January, 2016 It’s the part of the pitch about as wide as the six-yard box, around 25 or 30 yards out from goal. A lot of studies have been done to show that is where most goals come from, where through-balls are most likely to be successful. Players are encouraged to get into those positions and wait for an opportunity. That is seen as much more effective than crossing. HTH Ok so now we have more than the centre circle two halfs with a penalty box and six yard box inside that what are all these new areas called and how many are there ? When are they going to be marked on the pitch ? it will be like American gridiron soccerball rugby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 26 January, 2016 Share Posted 26 January, 2016 Players like Martin Peters and John Walk used to score lots of goals by arriving late from midfield into the area onto balls pulled back to them. I read yesterday that LVG had instructed his forwards that they must always attack the near post. This must make it easier for the opposition to prepare for a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano6 Posted 29 January, 2016 Share Posted 29 January, 2016 Ok so now we have more than the centre circle two halfs with a penalty box and six yard box inside that what are all these new areas called and how many are there ? When are they going to be marked on the pitch ? it will be like American gridiron soccerball rugby I don't know mate. I'm unable to lift the answer to that question verbatim from the article in the OP that you didn't read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dronskisaint Posted 29 January, 2016 Share Posted 29 January, 2016 Interesting context to this thread - read on down until we get a mention finally....as most prolific crossers!https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/prem-stat-leaders-revealed-creative-123518305.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonist Posted 29 January, 2016 Share Posted 29 January, 2016 What the heck is zone 14 when it's at home or for that matter where is is ? It's where they keep the UFOs and experimental alien hybrid technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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