david in sweden Posted 19 January, 2016 Share Posted 19 January, 2016 well...maybe not your face exactly, but your playing style because if the manager has a formation that he likes - then hope it's good for you, too. Those of us who are longer in the tooth, grew up with Ted Bates' teams and were well used to a 2-3-5 formation. Yes FIVE strikers. Of course the defences were quite vulnerable, but boy ...did we get a lot of goals. 100 league goals in 1963-64 ..and 70 of those at home...talk about a goal-feast every game. Some weaker teams who were renown for their poor defences were best advised to stay at home, save the train fares ...and puts the points in the post. But ...just as long as you scored..... one goal more than the opposition....you got the points anyway. Things changed radically after 1966 World Cup, because the victorious England manager Alf Ramsey soon dispensed with wingers (and we lost some good ones) and suddenly almost everyone went over to 4-3-3, or was it 4-2-4? Ever since all manner of alternative formations have emerged (not all successful) and the (then) Saints manager Lawrie McMenemy was credited with introducing the "sweeper system" into the English game (....well you can argue that one). Why we buy this or that player depends totally on the formation that the manager is committed to. I say this because the "Long to Liverpool" headlines of late seem to revolve around the fact that Liverpool's only fit striker (the £32 million summer signing Benteke) - doesn't fit Klopp's play style. Shane Long does. So Klopp urgently needs someone else ASAP. Well...it's only money - isn't it...and Liverpool and Man U. seem to throw it around like a man with six arms.. Coupled with this are rumours like Pelle's refusal to sign an extension beyond 2017...(well like Lambert, I don't begrudge him a return to his homeland), and a good Euro 2016 can only go to increase his value. Suddenly, Saints reverted to a team that includes...more English players. Can that really be true?. I started counting on Saturday....Forster, Bertrand, Targett, JWP...and with new boy Charlie Austin and Jay Rod (when he's back) the numbers will mount up. Who knows what the summer will bring? A few more Dutch players (by birth, or adoption) but I'll not complain about that. Koeman has done alright so far. The truth of the matter is, no matter how good someone is for one side, an expensive move to another club can be a disaster. Anyone who followed the Andy Carroll / Fernando Torres saga a few seasons ago can see that. Those once-feared strikers became meek as lambs and goals were hard to come by for them. The signing of Austin seems to have put another dimension into the team....and he hasn't kicked a ball yet. But one thing for certain with a contract until 2021, it seems that Messers. Koeman and Reed have decided that Charlie is likely to be " a face that fits " for sometime to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 19 January, 2016 Share Posted 19 January, 2016 The "Long to Liverpool" headlines (according to my sources ) are entirely fabricated by Alex Crook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 19 January, 2016 Share Posted 19 January, 2016 But one thing for certain with a contract until 2021, it seems that Messers. Koeman and Reed have decided that Charlie is likely to be " a face that fits " for sometime to come. A 4 and a half year contract means it is until 30th June 2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shance Posted 19 January, 2016 Share Posted 19 January, 2016 Yes, the Long to Liverpool rumors are bull****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shance Posted 19 January, 2016 Share Posted 19 January, 2016 A 4 and a half year contract means it is until 30th June 2020. Absolutely unbelievable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 19 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 19 January, 2016 A 4 and a half year contract means it is until 30th June 2020. ...and so it does .....Still a long time though..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 19 January, 2016 Share Posted 19 January, 2016 Absolutely unbelievable Deathly accurate though. He might also be the only person that read the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted 19 January, 2016 Share Posted 19 January, 2016 I read it. good post. find it crazy to think just how fast football developed at end of last century and even 10-15 years ago compared to how settled it seems now. the amount of managers in the current crop who earned their badges together and worked together at a very small pool of clubs in europe, combined with the globalisation of the premier league and how much pressure there is on delivering results and not 'tinkering' around too much when all eyes are on you has meant that even Koeman's choice to go 5 at the back seems somehow cutting edge and risky. people are talking about stoke similarly being a reformed team, when in reality all they have bought is the xhakiri and bojan, couple changes at the back but still a regular back 4 in reality, and suddenly it's a world away from crouch-ball tactics. strange when 50 yeasr ago football was a totally different game or so the old man tells me the pressure now on having a settled system is immense. seems to be one of the reasons rodgers was shown the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 19 January, 2016 Share Posted 19 January, 2016 Ted Bates didn't really play 2-3-5. His two full backs played either side of the centre half and the left half (Cliff Huxford) was defensive. The right half paired with the inside left with both scoring some goals, the centre forward paired with an attacking inside right (Reeves and O'Brien) both goal scorers with mostly Paine and the flyer Sydenham wide. Exhilarating to watch. Bournemouth under I think Freddie Cox were the first team to introduce a pure 4-2-4 in the late fifties. Saints were much more compact as the full backs went forward and the wingers came back. Later the team evolved with O'Brien, Chivers, then Channon and Davies playing as strikers. Paine and Sydenham were a constant and Burnside and Melia joined, Wilmshurst and Ian White came in plus Tony Knapp at centre half followed when we were promoted by amongst others McGrath, Gabriel, Walker, Fisher, O'Neill etc but he still played the same way although not so prolific in the first division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted 19 January, 2016 Share Posted 19 January, 2016 derry, those names gave me a very big grin and I remember them with fondness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 January, 2016 Share Posted 19 January, 2016 So to summarise Dave is saying a club will buy players to suit the suit the tactics they want to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted 20 January, 2016 Share Posted 20 January, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 20 January, 2016 Share Posted 20 January, 2016 So to summarise Dave is saying a club will buy players to suit the suit the tactics they want to play. Outrageous idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 20 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 20 January, 2016 So to summarise Dave is saying a club will buy players to suit the suit the tactics they want to play. ....well Turkish, what I'm really saying is... a player in a club who change managers (frequently) can find himself out of favour if he doesn't fit the managers formation... In Gaston's case he's had three Saints mangers inhis time and none of them wanted to play him....whose fault is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 20 January, 2016 Share Posted 20 January, 2016 Everyone used to play 2 3 5 in the 60s. The front 5 had to play in a w formation with the two inside forwards playing deeper than the centre forward. The two wingers were glued to the touchline and were not expected to drop into their own half. The two full backs were glued to the wingers and the centre half was glued to the centre forward. Out PE teacher used to blow the whistle every few minutes and look at where you were. If you weren't standing in the right place or marking the right person you got a rollicking. When Ramsey brought in 433 part way through the 66 WC it was the beginning of the end for "wingers." Terry Paine played against Mexico and that was it. End of his International career as the full backs were now overlapping and doing the wingers job as well as their own. Not sure who brought the sweeper system into this country but do remember Beckenbauer being one of the first if not the first sweepers and that would have been late 60s early 70s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano6 Posted 20 January, 2016 Share Posted 20 January, 2016 ....well Turkish, what I'm really saying is... a player in a club who change managers (frequently) can find himself out of favour if he doesn't fit the managers formation... In Gaston's case he's had three Saints mangers inhis time and none of them wanted to play him....whose fault is that? So to summarise Dave is saying a club will play players to suit the tactics they want to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 20 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 20 January, 2016 So to summarise Dave is saying a club will play players to suit the tactics they want to play. exactly ...and " the others " are lucky if they get a place on the bench.....ala Gaston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 20 January, 2016 Share Posted 20 January, 2016 Golden thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Lej Posted 20 January, 2016 Share Posted 20 January, 2016 Legendary rant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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