david in sweden Posted 14 January, 2016 Share Posted 14 January, 2016 (edited) Roanld Koeman has come in for criticism from fans who blame him for our recent slump. He is also in the minority in being a top grade manager who also had a successful playing career. Many former players have missed the mark by a mile.. (On this very cold morning, it's -17 deg C, in Stockholm ).....I'm racking my brains to think of another manager who's achieved the honours he has won? Some...like Wenger and Pardew scarcely played top grade football, let alone won titles /cups ... Am I wrong ...or is Ronald the highest-merited manager in the English game? OOPS..headline error MANAGER: cold hands, cold brain. Edited 14 January, 2016 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted 14 January, 2016 Share Posted 14 January, 2016 got to be. only other one would be hughes. played in 3 different top european leagues and still scored goals. for some big clubs as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 14 January, 2016 Share Posted 14 January, 2016 What was poch's playing career like? I know he played at international level so he must have been half decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 14 January, 2016 Share Posted 14 January, 2016 What was poch's playing career like? I know he played at international level so he must have been half decent. PSG and Espanyol, he won a couple of Copa Del Reys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millbrook Saint Posted 14 January, 2016 Share Posted 14 January, 2016 I personally don't think that being a top player necessarily makes you a good manager, in fact I think it may hinder in some cases. The more talented players don't have to think about the game as it all comes naturally, whereas the less skilfull players have to make up for their deficiencies by thinking about what they need to do and how to get an advantage over another player. This then helps them in managerial positions with tactics etc. Of course they also need the charisma to make other people want to follow them, so a player who has both will make the best managers. In my opinion of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByTheGolacs Posted 14 January, 2016 Share Posted 14 January, 2016 Ancelotti got to be right up there surely - three league titles and two european cups, plus half a dozen other domestic and euro/super cups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint IQ Posted 14 January, 2016 Share Posted 14 January, 2016 Koeman was one of the most successful centre backs the world has ever seen, certainly had the most goals of any top level playing centre back that I can think of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 14 January, 2016 Share Posted 14 January, 2016 I think Alan Ball was Saints most successful player who became a manager and Lawrie Mac the worse but Lawrie was more successful than Bally as a Saint's Manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 14 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 14 January, 2016 I personally don't think that being a top player necessarily makes you a good manager, in fact I think it may hinder in some cases. The more talented players don't have to think about the game as it all comes naturally, whereas the less skilfull players have to make up for their deficiencies by thinking about what they need to do and how to get an advantage over another player. This then helps them in managerial positions with tactics etc. Of course they also need the charisma to make other people want to follow them, so a player who has both will make the best managers. In my opinion of course I'm absolutely sure of it. One of my thoughts was that even going back to the 1966 World Cup side; I think Bobby Moore, Martin Peters, Geoff Hurst ?, Bobby Charlton and of course brother Jack and Alan Ball all had a crack at managing, but only the last two mentioned came near having a career, but without winning anything. I won't make a list now, but most of the successful names I can think of had fairly good / good club careers and may have won a few international caps. Probably the best known would have been the (late) Alf Ramsey. Former Saints and Tottenham and (sometime) England captain.....and World Cup-winning manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 14 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 14 January, 2016 I think Alan Ball was Saints most successful player who became a manager and Lawrie Mac the worse but Lawrie was more successful than Bally as a Saint's Manager Lawrie Mac never played at a professional level. He was an amateur for Bishop Auckland (?), but got a bad injury, couldn't return to playing and turned to coaching instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 14 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 14 January, 2016 (edited) Koeman was one of the most successful centre backs the world has ever seen, certainly had the most goals of any top level playing centre back that I can think of. (goals ) .......and a jolly site more than a lot of "so-called " top level strikers. Career stats. (played for 17 years)....685 games scoring 239 goals. Holland 78 games scored 14 goals . Edited 14 January, 2016 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 14 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 14 January, 2016 What was poch's playing career like? I know he played at international level so he must have been half decent. Pochettino's career was long....(18 years) ....if not so distiguished. Debut aged 16..played in Argentina, France and Spain totalling 578 games and 29 goals. Capped for Argentina 20 times and scored 2 goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 14 January, 2016 Share Posted 14 January, 2016 Lawrie Mac never played at a professional level. He was an amateur for Bishop Auckland (?), but got a bad injury, couldn't return to playing and turned to coaching instead. I think it was Gateshead he was involved as a player I think he was coach at Bishop Auckland first on his way to Doncaster and Grimsby Although Souness was not a World Cup Winner it could be said he was more successful than Ball Tottenham Hotspur FA Youth Cup: 1969–70 Middlesbrough Football League Second Division: 1973–74 Liverpool Football League First Division (5): 1978–79, 1979–80, 1981–82, 1982–83, 1983–84 League Cup (4): 1980–81, 1981–82, 1982–83, 1983–84 FA Charity Shield (3): 1979, 1980, 1982 European Cup (3): 1977–78, 1980–81, 1983–84 Sampdoria Coppa Italia: 1984–85 Player-Manager Rangers Scottish Premier Division (3): 1986–87, 1988–89, 1989–90 Scottish League Cup (4): 1986–87, 1987–88, 1988–89, 1990–91 Manager Liverpool FA Cup: 1991–92 Galatasaray Turkish Cup: 1995–96 Turkish Super Cup: 1996–97 Blackburn Rovers League Cup: 2001–02 Alan Ball England World Cup: 1966 Everton Football League Division 1 championship: 1969–70 FA Cup finalist: 1968 Arsenal Football League Division 1 runner-up: 1972–73 FA Cup finalist: 1972 Southampton Football League Division 2 runner-up: 1977–78 League Cup finalist: 1979 Vancouver NASL Soccer Bowl champion: 1979 NASL National Conference champion: 1979 NASL Western Division champion: 1979 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 14 January, 2016 Share Posted 14 January, 2016 I maybe a boring twt but this has always fascinated me . The transition from player to manager and how good you have to be . One of the biggest surprises in my football watching life is George Graham's Arsenal , anyone who saw George as a player would find it hard to equate that classy skilful player with the way he managed his sides . I always think managers that felt they underachieved as a player ( whether through injury or lack of ability ) have the drive that makes them s great manager . Cloughie being the real example as he had his career cut short . Maybe lawrie felt the same , as even to play at the semi professional level he played , you need to be decent . I never saw him play , but my Fulham supporting grandad said Bobby Robson was a really good player . As for saints , Bally was a great player as was Souness & Koeman . Personally , I think Souness was the best player , but Bally was a Saints player whereas the other 2 weren't. I still miss the guy , what a player , and what a guy . Legend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 14 January, 2016 Share Posted 14 January, 2016 Lawrie Mac never played at a professional level. He was an amateur for Bishop Auckland (?), but got a bad injury, couldn't return to playing and turned to coaching instead. Gateshead. Auckland was his first managerial job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 14 January, 2016 Author Share Posted 14 January, 2016 Gateshead. Auckland was his first managerial job. of course....bit of " brain-fade" there, thanks Vectis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 14 January, 2016 Share Posted 14 January, 2016 (goals ) .......and a jolly site more than a lot of "so-called " top level strikers. Career stats. (played for 17 years)....685 games scoring 239 goals. Holland 78 games scored 14 goals . "so-called" strikers, that's more than our all-time top scorer (Channon). Phenomenal really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 14 January, 2016 Share Posted 14 January, 2016 of course....bit of " brain-fade" there, thanks Vectis Sorry, didn't see someone had already replied Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Balls Posted 15 January, 2016 Share Posted 15 January, 2016 "so-called" strikers, that's more than our all-time top scorer (Channon). Phenomenal really. That's mad! Channon got 236 in 732 career appearances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 15 January, 2016 Share Posted 15 January, 2016 Burley was a good player and a good manager before he lost the plot for er... some reason we won't mention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted 15 January, 2016 Share Posted 15 January, 2016 Let's not forget that erstwhile 'cultured' defender (big) Sam Allardyce ! People who reckon his management style is basic and raw should have seen him play :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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