Saints 2-0 Watford post match relief

[sadoldgit]

I don't think he is poor and am glad he plays for us.

[Saint Charlie]

Anyone who doesn't think Davis is a good player or recognise his ability doesn't understand football IMO.

 

Very accomplished player and notable that ex teammates Lambert and Schneiderlin have specifically noted so since leaving the club.

[doddisalegend]

The only thing stopping Davis being top class is goals really.

[verlaine1979]

Two things made me speak up about Davis. Firstly, when everyone in the entire world starts describing him as the most underrated player in the league, the whole invisible underdog thing gets a bit ridiculous, especially as he's underrated primarily because he never scores and rarely produces assists. Secondly, around this time last year he began losing the ball far more than he ever had before (the City home game in Nov was the start of it I think). This sloppiness in possession continues unabated (recent examples include against Spurs and Palace, leading to goals in both instances). When the creative weakness of your most attacking central midfielder is mainly excused because of his work rate and defensive capabilities, regularly giving up goal scoring opportunities to the opposition seems like it would be a problem for most, but there's a blind spot where this player is concerned. On a personal note, the fact that he mainly loses the ball while turning to face his own goal in search of a more conservative backwards pass is just the crowning irritation. If you're going to give it away, at least be trying to do something with it rather than just being caught while passing responsibility on to someone else.

[sadoldgit]

But he does score, both for his club and his country. He does also provides assists or is often in involved in a build up to a goal.

[Wes Tender]

Nah, thought he did okay (as I've said before when his performances haven't been sub-par). He didn't give the ball away stupidly as he did against Spurs and Palace (only the most recent examples), and he even broke beyond the strikers a couple of times, which he doesn't do anything like often enough for an attacking midfielder. All in all, a perfectly competent performance, though others (Romeu in particular) shone brighter last night.

 

Contrary to the childish imaginings of some on this board, there's no vendetta. I just think that 9 times out of 10, he trudges through games without ever really making a decisive attacking contribution, which I find unacceptable for someone who is meant to be the creative fulcrum of a side aspiring to the top six.

 

Here is where you damn yourself with such ridiculous hyperbole. Nine times out of ten? Koeman must really be an idiot to select him, when he only contributes something decisive in attack for 10% of the matches, eh? I presume that you do not consider his tackling, closing down players, or box to box energy as characteristics of his game that define decisive attacking contributions in any way. More fool you.

 

I don't recall anybody claiming that Davis was the creative fulcrum of the side. That was the epithet that was applied to the likes of Schneiderlin, Tadic or what Clasie or Ward-Prowse are hoped to become.

 

I reiterate; players like Romeu and Clasie might not look as effective without somebody like Davis battling alongside them. There have been occasions this season where he has been substituted and we have lost our edge in midfield as a result.

[Verbal Kint]

But he does score, both for his club and his country. He does also provides assists or is often in involved in a build up to a goal.

 

In the last 4 seasons he has scored 6 league goals. He should be getting more at least that every season! In those 4 seasons he has had 12 assists, again he should be getting near to that in a single season. He isn't a creative player, it clearly isn't his strength as he is incapable of playing an incisive pass as his first thought is to play it safe.

RK is to blame for continuing to play him every week in an attacking position. Davis has a role to play in the squad, but he shouldn't be an automatic first choice for that role in a lot of games

[sadoldgit]

In the last 4 seasons he has scored 6 league goals. He should be getting more at least that every season! In those 4 seasons he has had 12 assists, again he should be getting near to that in a single season. He isn't a creative player, it clearly isn't his strength as he is incapable of playing an incisive pass as his first thought is to play it safe.

RK is to blame for continuing to play him every week in an attacking position. Davis has a role to play in the squad, but he shouldn't be an automatic first choice for that role in a lot of games

 

Is that his main role though? Being creative?

[Wes Tender]

But he does score, both for his club and his country. He does also provides assists or is often in involved in a build up to a goal.

 

 

He never scores in the matches that Verlaine watches and he only rarely provides assists too.

[sadoldgit]

He never scores in the matches that Verlaine watches and he only rarely provides assists too.

 

I know that we all have differing opinions about certain players but for me Davis is currently a key member of the team.

[Verbal Kint]

Is that his main role though? Being creative?

 

He's playing as an attacking midfielder. We play with two holding and one further forward like most teams do these days. There is huge responsibility currently on our main striker to score a lot of goals because we have nothing coming from midfield. Tadic is not a natural scorer but he is at least one of the most creative players in the league, and we know Mane is good for 10+ goals a season. We need more goals from the third attacking midfield position if we want to finish in the top 8 regularly and push for top 6

[CanadaSaint]

I'm surprised there have been so few comments on Fonte and VvD switching sides. That was a major change which, for me, worked out really well.

 

Whether RK did it just for Watford or as a 'permanent' change remains to be seen, but I'd like to see Koeman retain it because it also helped Cedric and Bertrand to look more solid and gave them more chances to push forward.

 

It certainly didn't hurt that Romeu, Clasie and Targett played so well in front of them.

[Wes Tender]

I know that we all have differing opinions about certain players but for me Davis is currently a key member of the team.

 

I agree. If Davis was an attacking midfielder who scored several goals a season and provided several assists regularly too, then he would already be playing for a top 4 glory club. There aren't more than a handful of players in the PL who have all the attributes and the spirit and energy levels too. Davis epitomises the "road sweeper" type of player that Lawrie Mac stated that every team needed to go with the "violinists."

[Chez]

We have played well in the previous three games without reward, so I was reasonably confident we would get a result last night. The difference between those games and this? Well we played a little better and the opposition were considerably worse. Focusing on us, there were some fantastic performances from a few players and some good ones from everyone else. Long ran more than I've ever seen him do so before (and that's saying something) and Davis and Romeu covered almost every blade of grass between them. I can see on this thread that all three get lots of praise, but I want to highlight the performances of the two centre backs. Ighala is a much better player than I gave him credit for. I knew he was big, powerful and quick, but he also has a touch and a great tight turn. In the opening exchanges he, and to a much lessor degree Deaney, looked dangerous, but Fonte and Virgil really got hold of them. They both got tight, were physical and didn't give them any room at all, and for me that provided the platform for our display. We gave them no out ball and not a sniff at goal. Both won headers, got foot ins and the ball was turned over time after time allowing us to dominate.

 

Forster - great to have him back, but I felt uneasy when seeing him kick on that surface. He looked a little sluggish when going down for the two easy saves, but maybe they were so easy that was international. Kicking was below his best. I hope he is back to full fitness, but I'm nervous and thought he looked a little nervous too.

Bertrand - looked comfortable in that left centre back/left back role. Very composed and made a lot of good decision in when to pass and when to go back to the keeper

VVD - I think only Radhi Jaidi has been seen in a Saints shirt and won more headers. Brilliant display last night to add to many other good performances.

Fonte - Not as quick on the turn, which makes him a little vulnerable, but made a few vital tackles when stretched. If we can keep both fit they may even improve as a pair.

Targett - given and used the space very well in the first half. Two or three terrific crosses and also showed good composure in tight areas. Saw less of him second half and I felt he was easily out muscled on the odd occasion, which is my biggest criticism of him. The fact he starts at left midfield does raise question marks over our other midfielders, but it worked well. I thought the five at the back worked well on Saturday. There lots of moans and grown on here about it, but if it means to snuff out the opposition and get to see a lot of ball that is a good thing.

Soares - Showed everything that is good and bad about his game at the moment. Great on the ball, pace to cause problems (and get himself out of jail), helping us going forward greatly, but he got caught in possession in bad areas, caught out of position and didn't win a single header.

Classie - Woeful first half display. Every pass went wrong, didn't get tight enough to opponents and he got caught the wrong side of the ball on several occasions. The longer the game went on the better he got. Second half his passing was much more effective (as it has been the last few games), he became a pest defensively and

was influential.

Romeu - Another decent display. I was particularly impressed when he spotted the danger of squared ball that looked like it was setting up a player on the edge of the box. Very good reading of the play and determination to prevent the chance. I also liked his left foot striker. Excellent power on his swinger. I have to say he also got caught the wrong side of the ball a few times with Classie in the first half, they need to watch that, but for most of the game and especially in the second half they ran the show

Davis - did what Davis does best. Ran and ran, showed his great first touch so many times you don;t even notice it, kept things moving by creating an option and making runs. He created chances too. He's a terrific player. You just have to play the right players with him in the right formation.

Mane - I compared his effort in the first half with how he charged around at Chelsea earlier in the season and on that basis he didn't look up for it. But perhaps he was pacing himself, because he certainly got involved. One or two times he was almost too quick and the ball went behind him. The chances missed were frustrating. I imagine he pulled his hair out having been subbed for Tadic who then scored with a powderpuff shot. We have to ensure we get the best out of him. At the moment he's getting in positions. but not quite delivering.

Long - His effort was essential to this victory. He was terrific. Worked and worked, won headers, got down the channels and scored a beauty. He won so many headers its not true. More than Pelle would perhaps? Give him time to think and he is not clinical, but if he doesn't have time to think he looks like a striker. I thought he should have got a hattrick. The misses and chance he didn't make his are what lets him down, but he could have missed an open goal last night and I'd still be happy with that he did. One thing I must say is that RK should have subbed him and not Soares at the end. He was on his knees and that's when injuries occur. Very poor management.

 

Subs: Tadic, scored and kept the ball. Not sure there is much more to add. The formation meant we didn't have to worry about his defensive efforts.

Pelle - as soon as he came on we hoofed it long and Watford won most of those headers. We need to play to his strengths, not fall back into a long ball side. Not his fault. You do see a drop off in closing down too though and there he could do more, especially when coming on as a sub. No excuses for tiredness of pacing one's self.

Yoshida - not sure why Martina didn't get the nod. He played well against Palace. Having done so he did fine. Not sure why fans start grumbling when he comes on. He's made the odd blunder, but overall he has served us well as a reserve centre back. He's not first choice, but I certainly don't grown when I see his name on the team sheet.

Edited 14 January, 2016 by Chez

[derry]

Sounds like it was you that was not there. Even with your personal hatred of Davis, to have such a poor view of what he did last night is very difficult to understand, and you may notice that you are in a minority of one (unless or until Verlaine comes along with his anti-Davis venom). You are quite right that Romeu and Clasie were excellent, especially Romeu, as were Targett, Cedric and Long. The back three were very good although the middle three and wing backs meant they really didn't have much to do, but VvD won everything in the air (but was very loose with some of his passes and got us into trouble a couple of times).

 

Looks like you missed Long busting a gut to hunt down the ball in Watford's half when our players should have been busting a gut to get up in support but not Davis trundling along at about three quarter pace despite being the nearest to Long. Needless to say he never got there in time to be any use.

 

A decent game but not in the same class as Clasie or Romeu.

[doddisalegend]

In the last 4 seasons he has scored 6 league goals. He should be getting more at least that every season! In those 4 seasons he has had 12 assists, again he should be getting near to that in a single season. He isn't a creative player, it clearly isn't his strength as he is incapable of playing an incisive pass as his first thought is to play it safe.

RK is to blame for continuing to play him every week in an attacking position. Davis has a role to play in the squad, but he shouldn't be an automatic first choice for that role in a lot of games

 

 

His assist rate not being that high is hardly a surprise given the form of our strikers the last two seasons.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

In the last 4 seasons he has scored 6 league goals. He should be getting more at least that every season! In those 4 seasons he has had 12 assists, again he should be getting near to that in a single season. He isn't a creative player, it clearly isn't his strength as he is incapable of playing an incisive pass as his first thought is to play it safe.

RK is to blame for continuing to play him every week in an attacking position. Davis has a role to play in the squad, but he shouldn't be an automatic first choice for that role in a lot of games

 

Basically you think he should have the same goalscoring and assist record as David Silva despite being not as good and despite playing with inferior players?

[Verbal Kint]

His assist rate not being that high is hardly a surprise given the form of our strikers the last two seasons.

 

Have a look at chances created or key pass stats then. whoscored have the following top 10 of midfielders this season for the average number of chances created per game (more than 10 games): Ozil, Payet, De Bruyne, Eriksen, Silva, Tadic, Hazard, Cazorla, Willian, Lamela. Davis is 28th on their list. He just isn't a very good player in the final third and there will be plenty of games where we struggle to break teams down, precisely because we play players like that in attacking positions

[Verbal Kint]

Basically you think he should have the same goalscoring and assist record as David Silva despite being not as good and despite playing with inferior players?

 

I expect a player in that position, if we are serious about competing for top 8 finishes, to get near to 10 goals and 10 assists. Tadic has got near that last season and will probably achieve it this season, so it is very possible to find players of that quality. Payet, Wijnaldum, Alli etc were all players we could have realistically signed

[DT]

We have played well in the previous three games without reward, so I was reasonably confident we would get a result last night. The difference between those games and this? Well we played a little better and the opposition were considerably worse. Focusing on us, there were some fantastic performances from a few players and some good ones from everyone else. Long ran more than I've ever seen him do so before (and that's saying something) and Davis and Romeu covered almost every blade of grass between them. I can see on this thread that all three get lots of praise, but I want to highlight the performances of the two centre backs. Ighala is a much better player than I gave him credit for. I knew he was big, powerful and quick, but he also has a touch and a great tight turn. In the opening exchanges he, and to a much lessor degree Deaney, looked dangerous, but Fonte and Virgil really got hold of them. They both got tight, were physical and didn't give them any room at all, and for me that provided the platform for our display. We gave them no out ball and not a sniff at goal. Both won headers, got foot ins and the ball was turned over time after time allowing us to dominate.

 

Forster - great to have him back, but I felt uneasy when seeing him kick on that surface. He looked a little sluggish when going down for the two easy saves, but maybe they were so easy that was international. Kicking was below his best. I hope he is back to full fitness, but I'm nervous and thought he looked a little nervous too.

Bertrand - looked comfortable in that left centre back/left back role. Very composed and made a lot of good decision in when to pass and when to go back to the keeper

VVD - I think only Radhi Jaidi has been seen in a Saints shirt and won more headers. Brilliant display last night to add to many other good performances.

Fonte - Not as quick on the turn, which makes him a little vulnerable, but made a few vital tackles when stretched. If we can keep both fit they may even improve as a pair.

Targett - given and used the space very well in the first half. Two or three terrific crosses and also showed good composure in tight areas. Saw less of him second half and I felt he was easily out muscled on the odd occasion, which is my biggest criticism of him. The fact he starts at left midfield does raise question marks over our other midfielders, but it worked well. I thought the five at the back worked well on Saturday. There lots of moans and grown on here about it, but if it means to snuff out the opposition and get to see a lot of ball that is a good thing.

Soares - Showed everything that is good and bad about his game at the moment. Great on the ball, pace to cause problems (and get himself out of jail), helping us going forward greatly, but he got caught in possession in bad areas, caught out of position and didn't win a single header.

Classie - Woeful first half display. Every pass went wrong, didn't get tight enough to opponents and he got caught the wrong side of the ball on several occasions. The longer the game went on the better he got. Second half his passing was much more effective (as it has been the last few games), he became a pest defensively and

was influential.

Romeu - Another decent display. I was particularly impressed when he spotted the danger of squared ball that looked like it was setting up a player on the edge of the box. Very good reading of the play and determination to prevent the chance. I also liked his left foot striker. Excellent power on his swinger. I have to say he also got caught the wrong side of the ball a few times with Classie in the first half, they need to watch that, but for most of the game and especially in the second half they ran the show

Davis - did what Davis does best. Ran and ran, showed his great first touch so many times you don;t even notice it, kept things moving by creating an option and making runs. He created chances too. He's a terrific player. You just have to play the right players with him in the right formation.

Mane - I compared his effort in the first half with how he charged around at Chelsea earlier in the season and on that basis he didn't look up for it. But perhaps he was pacing himself, because he certainly got involved. One or two times he was almost too quick and the ball went behind him. The chances missed were frustrating. I imagine he pulled his hair out having been subbed for Tadic who then scored with a powderpuff shot. We have to ensure we get the best out of him. At the moment he's getting in positions. but not quite delivering.

Long - His effort was essential to this victory. He was terrific. Worked and worked, won headers, got down the channels and scored a beauty. He won so many headers its not true. More than Pelle would perhaps? Give him time to think and he is not clinical, but if he doesn't have time to think he looks like a striker. I thought he should have got a hattrick. The misses and chance he didn't make his are what lets him down, but he could have missed an open goal last night and I'd still be happy with that he did. One thing I must say is that RK should have subbed him and not Soares at the end. He was on his knees and that's when injuries occur. Very poor management.

 

Subs: Tadic, scored and kept the ball. Not sure there is much more to add. The formation meant we didn't have to worry about his defensive efforts.

Pelle - as soon as he came on we hoofed it long and Watford won most of those headers. We need to play to his strengths, not fall back into a long ball side. Not his fault. You do see a drop off in closing down too though and there he could do more, especially when coming on as a sub. No excuses for tiredness of pacing one's self.

Yoshida - not sure why Martina didn't get the nod. He played well against Palace. Having done so he did fine. Not sure why fans start grumbling when he comes on. He's made the odd blunder, but overall he has served us well as a reserve centre back. He's not first choice, but I certainly don't grown when I see his name on the team sheet.

 

We played well against Palace? Really? Is that between the bouts of mediocrity, mistakes, and technical flaws? Have to say I respectfully disagree.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

I expect a player in that position, if we are serious about competing for top 8 finishes, to get near to 10 goals and 10 assists. Tadic has got near that last season and will probably achieve it this season, so it is very possible to find players of that quality. Payet, Wijnaldum, Alli etc were all players we could have realistically signed

 

I know what you are getting at but we often don't deploy a purely attacking midfielder in that position. We expect / need them to do a lot of other things that purely creative players do not offer. Davis absolutely needs more end product to his game, but even if he did develop that I don't think he's going to be your 10 goal / 10 assist man as it's just not the way he plays. Whenever we play Mane behind Pelle or Long it's often with a far more defensive midfield behind him (or with Davis on the right) as Koeman is always playing with his defensive shape in mind.

 

We do need more goals from midfield in general, but I wouldn't be looking to one position in particular to be providing them.

[benjii]

I'm surprised there have been so few comments on Fonte and VvD switching sides. That was a major change which, for me, worked out really well.

 

Whether RK did it just for Watford or as a 'permanent' change remains to be seen, but I'd like to see Koeman retain it because it also helped Cedric and Bertrand to look more solid and gave them more chances to push forward.

 

It certainly didn't hurt that Romeu, Clasie and Targett played so well in front of them.

 

We played three centre backs so they didn't really switch, we just decided Fonte should be the middle one of the three. Makes sense because the wider ones tend to have more space to advance forwards and VVD and Bertrand are much better passers than Fonte.

[sydenhamssocks]

Against Watford it worked well but there were a couple of occasions where there were holes where a fullback would have been. Fortunately Watford couldn't exploit them.

 

I agree it may not be perfect, but, you can only play what's in front of you, as they say. Watford have been decent recently, if they had an off night, fair enough. We took advantage. Just seemed like the players felt comfy with the set up in general which can only be good going forward. If it all falls apart v WBA then we're back to square one... Not for the first time this season.

[bazza]

Anyone who doesn't think Davis is a good player or recognise his ability doesn't understand football IMO.

 

Very accomplished player and notable that ex teammates Lambert and Schneiderlin have specifically noted so since leaving the club.

 

^ This.

[stevegrant]

Looks like you missed Long busting a gut to hunt down the ball in Watford's half when our players should have been busting a gut to get up in support but not Davis trundling along at about three quarter pace despite being the nearest to Long. Needless to say he never got there in time to be any use.

So you've hand-picked a single example to back up your argument. Bravo.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Once certain posters make up their minds about a player being Shyte,crap or what ever word they chose to use at the time,

nothing will make them change their minds about the player even after good performances recognised by the majority...why is that?

 

Perhaps its because they cannot bear to be admit to being wrong.....bit sad really..

[angelman]

Anyone know if there are any stats available, as wanted to see if Long did run a lot further than everyone else. Seemed that he did, but stats can paint a different picture.

[Saint Charlie]

So you've hand-picked a single example to back up your argument. Bravo.

 

After this gem, its kind of worth taking it all with a pinch of salt. Best post ever on this site (the original of course). #frontsweeper

 

[emoji38]

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?42964-Wigan-v-Saints-build-up-thread&p=1612156#post1612156

 

 

The front sweeper covers across the whole width of the pitch and is either the first defender to try and block an attack or the first player to slot in and cover the first back four player that commits to block an attack leaving the defence compact. He also drops in behind as the circumstances dictate to cover for any gap that could occurr without the extra defender. Schneiderlin doesn't cover anyone neither does Davis but a proper defender or a proper defensive midfielder would, allowing for more attack minded midfielders which Schneiderlin and Davis aren't either.

Edited 14 January, 2016 by Saint Charlie

[CanadaSaint]

We played three centre backs so they didn't really switch, we just decided Fonte should be the middle one of the three. Makes sense because the wider ones tend to have more space to advance forwards and VVD and Bertrand are much better passers than Fonte.

 

Not quite sure how you can say "they didn't really switch" when they clearly did, but I agree with the rest of what you said.

 

The three of them looked like a very composed unit that read virtually every situation really well - and they weren't up against dummies. Bertrand seemed to enjoy that role and it both protected Targett from his weaknesses and allowed him to exhibit strengths we've never really seen before. Some of his deliveries into the box were the best we've seen for some time, and on on-form Pelle could cash in on that kind of service. It would be harsh to leave Long out after last night's efforts but Targett hitting Pelle could be lethal.

 

It will be interesting to see if Koeman did this as a one-off or if we see the same at the weekend.

[simo]

He's playing as an attacking midfielder. We play with two holding and one further forward like most teams do these days. There is huge responsibility currently on our main striker to score a lot of goals because we have nothing coming from midfield. Tadic is not a natural scorer but he is at least one of the most creative players in the league, and we know Mane is good for 10+ goals a season. We need more goals from the third attacking midfield position if we want to finish in the top 8 regularly and push for top 6

 

I like to think he's more a transitional midfielder , the link between the attack and defence!

[VectisSaint]

Looks like you missed Long busting a gut to hunt down the ball in Watford's half when our players should have been busting a gut to get up in support but not Davis trundling along at about three quarter pace despite being the nearest to Long. Needless to say he never got there in time to be any use.

 

A decent game but not in the same class as Clasie or Romeu.

Along with about 30000 others I probably missed Davis "trundling" along on account of it being a figment of your imagination. I certainly didn't miss Long busting a gut, because like Davis (and several others, particularly Romeu, Clasie and Cedric) he did it nearly all evening. How anyone who has the slightest knowledge of the game and does not have a personal grudge can fault Davis for his effort is really just beyond belief and defies reason. Fault him for other things perhaps but not effort. You really seem to have a bit of a problem.

Edited 14 January, 2016 by VectisSaint

[Saint Charlie]

Along with about 30000 others I probably missed Davis "trundling" along on account of it being a figment of your imagination. I certainly didn't miss Long busting a gut, because like Davis (and several others, particularly Romeu, Clasie and Cedric) he did it nearly all evening. How anyone who has the slightest knowledge of the game and does not have a personal grudge can fault Davis for his effort is really just beyond belief and defies reason. You really seem to have a bit of a problem.

He has a blindspot re midfielders hence wanting to field a CM pairing of Lallana and Ramirez in a game.

 

Plus saying Schnedierlin doesn't cover anyone but a proper defensive midfielder would.

[Bobbyboy]

Anyone know if there are any stats available, as wanted to see if Long did run a lot further than everyone else. Seemed that he did, but stats can paint a different picture.

Good question, I do recall a graphic they showed close to the end of the game (78 mins or so?) on the NBC stream over here, showing that Romeu had done the most Saints running with a little over 9k. Will take a look at the replay and see if I can find it. I remember seeing it and thinking how Morgan used to often go way over 10k per match

[Bobbyboy]

Good question, I do recall a graphic they showed close to the end of the game (78 mins or so?) on the NBC stream over here, showing that Romeu had done the most Saints running with a little over 9k. Will take a look at the replay and see if I can find it. I remember seeing it and thinking how Morgan used to often go way over 10k per match

 

75 mins they showed Romeu at 9.08km, Davis at 8.84 and Soares at 8.56 - and the match continued 20 mins beyond that so Romeu did a load of running.

[Batman]

any highlights online anywhere?

[angelman]

any highlights online anywhere?

 

Short ones here: http://hoofoot.com/?match=Southampton_2_-_0_Watford_2016_01_13

[shurlock]

He has a blindspot re midfielders hence wanting to field a CM pairing of Lallana and Ramirez in a game.

 

Plus saying Schnedierlin doesn't cover anyone but a proper defensive midfielder would.

 

Yeh Derry had a thing against Morgan. Probably part of the original Wotten Crew.

[dronskisaint]

We have played well in the previous three games without reward, so I was reasonably confident we would get a result last night. The difference between those games and this? Well we played a little better and the opposition were considerably worse. Focusing on us, there were some fantastic performances from a few players and some good ones from everyone else. Long ran more than I've ever seen him do so before (and that's saying something) and Davis and Romeu covered almost every blade of grass between them. I can see on this thread that all three get lots of praise, but I want to highlight the performances of the two centre backs. Ighala is a much better player than I gave him credit for. I knew he was big, powerful and quick, but he also has a touch and a great tight turn. In the opening exchanges he, and to a much lessor degree Deaney, looked dangerous, but Fonte and Virgil really got hold of them. They both got tight, were physical and didn't give them any room at all, and for me that provided the platform for our display. We gave them no out ball and not a sniff at goal. Both won headers, got foot ins and the ball was turned over time after time allowing us to dominate.

 

Forster - great to have him back, but I felt uneasy when seeing him kick on that surface. He looked a little sluggish when going down for the two easy saves, but maybe they were so easy that was international. Kicking was below his best. I hope he is back to full fitness, but I'm nervous and thought he looked a little nervous too.

Bertrand - looked comfortable in that left centre back/left back role. Very composed and made a lot of good decision in when to pass and when to go back to the keeper

VVD - I think only Radhi Jaidi has been seen in a Saints shirt and won more headers. Brilliant display last night to add to many other good performances.

Fonte - Not as quick on the turn, which makes him a little vulnerable, but made a few vital tackles when stretched. If we can keep both fit they may even improve as a pair.

Targett - given and used the space very well in the first half. Two or three terrific crosses and also showed good composure in tight areas. Saw less of him second half and I felt he was easily out muscled on the odd occasion, which is my biggest criticism of him. The fact he starts at left midfield does raise question marks over our other midfielders, but it worked well. I thought the five at the back worked well on Saturday. There lots of moans and grown on here about it, but if it means to snuff out the opposition and get to see a lot of ball that is a good thing.

Soares - Showed everything that is good and bad about his game at the moment. Great on the ball, pace to cause problems (and get himself out of jail), helping us going forward greatly, but he got caught in possession in bad areas, caught out of position and didn't win a single header.

Classie - Woeful first half display. Every pass went wrong, didn't get tight enough to opponents and he got caught the wrong side of the ball on several occasions. The longer the game went on the better he got. Second half his passing was much more effective (as it has been the last few games), he became a pest defensively and

was influential.

Romeu - Another decent display. I was particularly impressed when he spotted the danger of squared ball that looked like it was setting up a player on the edge of the box. Very good reading of the play and determination to prevent the chance. I also liked his left foot striker. Excellent power on his swinger. I have to say he also got caught the wrong side of the ball a few times with Classie in the first half, they need to watch that, but for most of the game and especially in the second half they ran the show

Davis - did what Davis does best. Ran and ran, showed his great first touch so many times you don;t even notice it, kept things moving by creating an option and making runs. He created chances too. He's a terrific player. You just have to play the right players with him in the right formation.

Mane - I compared his effort in the first half with how he charged around at Chelsea earlier in the season and on that basis he didn't look up for it. But perhaps he was pacing himself, because he certainly got involved. One or two times he was almost too quick and the ball went behind him. The chances missed were frustrating. I imagine he pulled his hair out having been subbed for Tadic who then scored with a powderpuff shot. We have to ensure we get the best out of him. At the moment he's getting in positions. but not quite delivering.

Long - His effort was essential to this victory. He was terrific. Worked and worked, won headers, got down the channels and scored a beauty. He won so many headers its not true. More than Pelle would perhaps? Give him time to think and he is not clinical, but if he doesn't have time to think he looks like a striker. I thought he should have got a hattrick. The misses and chance he didn't make his are what lets him down, but he could have missed an open goal last night and I'd still be happy with that he did. One thing I must say is that RK should have subbed him and not Soares at the end. He was on his knees and that's when injuries occur. Very poor management.

 

Subs: Tadic, scored and kept the ball. Not sure there is much more to add. The formation meant we didn't have to worry about his defensive efforts.

Pelle - as soon as he came on we hoofed it long and Watford won most of those headers. We need to play to his strengths, not fall back into a long ball side. Not his fault. You do see a drop off in closing down too though and there he could do more, especially when coming on as a sub. No excuses for tiredness of pacing one's self.

Yoshida - not sure why Martina didn't get the nod. He played well against Palace. Having done so he did fine. Not sure why fans start grumbling when he comes on. He's made the odd blunder, but overall he has served us well as a reserve centre back. He's not first choice, but I certainly don't grown when I see his name on the team sheet.

 

Are you in Block 39 Chez? We seem to get the same view of games!

[spyinthesky]

Re Davis

 

I thought he played very well

 

Was his 'goal' offside or not

 

Not shown on MOTD

 

Whatever it was a terrific finish

[Lets B Avenue]

75 mins they showed Romeu at 9.08km, Davis at 8.84

 

That's a lot of "trundling".

[doddisalegend]

I'm surprised there have been so few comments on Fonte and VvD switching sides. That was a major change which, for me, worked out really well.

 

Whether RK did it just for Watford or as a 'permanent' change remains to be seen, but I'd like to see Koeman retain it because it also helped Cedric and Bertrand to look more solid and gave them more chances to push forward.

 

It certainly didn't hurt that Romeu, Clasie and Targett played so well in front of them.

 

I'll put my hand up and say I didn't even notice but hell what ever they changed last night seemed to work so lets keeping doing it.

[Verbal Kint]

I like to think he's more a transitional midfielder , the link between the attack and defence!

 

And if he was playing as one of two central midfielders I wouldn't have a problem with it. And I don't think he's a bad player at all, I just think playing 3 defensive minded midfielders is one of the major reasons why we struggle to score goals or break teams down. The other one being abysmal finishing throughout the team on the whole

[Whitey Grandad]

Actually for several of the calls, no I was a lot closer than the officials and better placed and II also have good 3D vision. That was part of the problem, the referee did not keep up well with the play and the decisions for corners were on the wrong side of the pitch for the lineo to have any idea of what had happened. I know how hard it is being a ref or lineo, but the decision making of the officials last night was poor if I'm being generous, and it really can't be defended. They may be "able" to view the situation in high resolution, but it doesn't work if they have their eyes closed. I don't usually knock referees, but last night they were very poor with the throw-ins, corners and offsides. Very poor. But it didn't make any difference except that we probably would have scored more (no correct that we would have scored more because Steve Davis' goal was perfectly good).

 

I very much doubt that, to be frank.

[Whitey Grandad]

Re Davis

 

I thought he played very well

 

Was his 'goal' offside or not

 

Not shown on MOTD

 

Whatever it was a terrific finish

 

Yes, me too, although it may be down to the whole composition of the midfield and not just him. He got forward a lot more than usual for him and got caught offside a few times. I'd like to see his disallowed effort again, although I think Gomes had already stopped playing by the time the shot was made.

[angelman]

Must have been offside as if not, then being contentious, MotD would (or maybe that should be "should") have shown it.

[VectisSaint]

I very much doubt that, to be frank.

 

Well Frank, thats the truth. Lineo was 50m away, whereas I was no more than 20. Ref was about 25m.

[Redslo]

I'm surprised there have been so few comments on Fonte and VvD switching sides. That was a major change which, for me, worked out really well.

 

Whether RK did it just for Watford or as a 'permanent' change remains to be seen, but I'd like to see Koeman retain it because it also helped Cedric and Bertrand to look more solid and gave them more chances to push forward.

 

It certainly didn't hurt that Romeu, Clasie and Targett played so well in front of them.

 

Did they really switch sides or was it simply a decision to play Fonte in the middle when playing three in back and Betrand had to be on the left?

[stevegrant]

The SaintsPlayer highlights show the disallowed goal and Davis is clearly level with Holebas when the ball's played.

[Redslo]

Re Davis

 

I thought he played very well

 

Was his 'goal' offside or not

 

Not shown on MOTD

 

Whatever it was a terrific finish

 

On American TV replay it was not offside.

[CanadaSaint]

Did they really switch sides or was it simply a decision to play Fonte in the middle when playing three in back and Betrand had to be on the left?

 

Benjii responded in the same way as you but I'm not understanding the distinction. Yes, we played with a back three but we could have done that with either one of them in the middle of it. Moving VvD to the other side is, at least to me, quite a significant change considering that we've spent the entire season playing Fonte ® and VvD (L). Regardess, it seemed to work very well because the uncertainties evident in Fonte's recent form disappeared, and he seemed much more assured. I really liked how they dovetailed last night, and that has been a cause for concern over recent weeks.

 

Am I allowed to think he's a good team player while accepting he's not attacking enough for the role asked of him? Or is that translated to me saying he's rubbish to make it easier?

 

I sure hope you're allowed to see it that way because that's exactly how I see it too. I think he brings a lot to the team, but two of the things we need most - an incisive final pass and a good finish - are not really on the list. I'm quite happy to recognize him for what he is, and yet get frustrated with him because of what he doesn't seem capable of delivering.